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11:03 AM
Isn't there a sauce called Worcester? :o
 
@Tim Thanks!
 
@Seth Worcestershire sauce.
 
@Kyll Oh god no he has returned!
@Louis Ohh, I see :)
Delicious.
 
Yeah, sorry
Kinda busy these days
 
How dare you o.o
What's keeping you from finally taking over the world, now that you're RO? :/
 
11:05 AM
\o new aaro
 
Plop Tushar =D
@Seth I would at least need a diamond for that, and I'm really not up for it
 
@Kyll Whaaaaaat?! Not up for it he says '-'
Tr8tor :o
 
> and I need to know conceptual explain.
WTH? LoL.
Not sure...
 
Yeah watch out user have other posts...
 
Yes spam...
 
11:10 AM
User works at zbrains..
 
He's the dev of that software.
 
hmm, overt-self promotion... maybe...
 
The answer doesn't answer the question even remotely.
 
I would go for mod flag not spam flag
 
poofed
 
11:11 AM
It got destroyed
By 6 spam flags
 
nope
 
No by TLM
And not sure why is this still existing: stackoverflow.com/a/39871938
 
The user have at least another one...
not anymore :D
 
afl
 
@Tunaki away from life?
Tuna come back to us :(
 
11:15 AM
Darn those fishermen
 
11:27 AM
:33287511 Well no otherwise it wouldn't be lost
 
meeh I will go the offical way :D
 
oh gods I can see deleted messages
 
Yeah now you can check the smokey reports when they are gone ; )
 
@Kyll: Do they talk to you?
 
@PetterFriberg He can see them, but he cannot see them :o (since they're deleted(the posts, that is))
 
11:29 AM
@Olaf They whisper secrets to my ear
 
Morning
 
Morning
 
@Adriaan Thanks
 
I wonder
If its better to ensure exceptions aren't being thrown or to catch them correctly
 
Plop Nathan
 
11:32 AM
@Magisch - a bit of both
 
ok this guy I already warned
 
@Magisch It depends. If you are in a unrecoverable state then you need to propagate that exception out. If you can handle it and meaningfully continue then you should.
 
@NathanOliver No I mean more on principle
 
The report is related to this post stackoverflow.com/a/39872466/5292302 10K
 
throws @Magisch at @Seth
 
11:33 AM
@Magisch That is my principle ;)
 
@Magisch yeah...
@PetterFriberg not sure that was spam
 
@PetterFriberg They were both mind'd
 
Is it better to programmatically ensure an array never gets out of bounds or to let it and catch the exception
 
@Magisch nooooooooooooooooooooo
 
@Kyll Ouch :(
 
11:34 AM
don't catch exceptions like those!!!
 
@Magisch O_O ...
 
plzzzzz don't do it
 
Does 'meaningfully continue' include notifying the user that there was an issue and returning to a known state? I've always wondered that @NathanOliver
 
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
@Tunaki Check this stackoverflow.com/a/39872466/5292302, he continued to post
 
11:34 AM
I see
 
Hey, @Magisch, I think you broke @Tunaki :]
 
@Magisch It depends. Do you want to be safe or fast?
 
hence first I commented and mod flagged.... then spam flag..
 
@Tunaki Im asking because I'm making another java mod
for minecraft
 
@NathanOliver No, you don't want that at all :|
Don't use arrays.
Arrays are ugly.
 
11:34 AM
@Henders To me yes.
 
@Magisch Never ever catch ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException
 
They restrict you in so many ways.
 
And all the tutorial material that I'm looking at is catching exceptions and then doing stuff with it
 
Just use an ArrayList & be safe :|
 
Arrays are awesome. You just need to know when to use the,
 
11:35 AM
@Magisch Change tutorials
 
@Magisch What'd you do with a caught ArrayIndexOutOfBondsException?
 
I wonder if it wouldn't be better to check if an array call will be out of bounds before making that call.
 
^ yes!
 
Oh wait, you guys are talking Java. I'm looking at it from the C, C++ side
 
YES!
 
11:35 AM
@NathanOliver JAVA
 
no no no no no no no no no no
 
:o
 
@Seth Tell the user they dun goofed
In that case a log entry in the server log
 
ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException and NullPointerException and the like are not supposed to be caught.
 
@Tunaki Exactly.
 
11:36 AM
Nobody catches an ArrayIndexOutOfBounds. Its like catching NPE without checking for null first
 
My first programming language is C and in there you can't catch any exceptions
You get a segfault and the system decides your program ends now
 
Those exceptions point to definite flaws of your code.
 
There are no exceptions in C.
 
So I'm struggling with why I should use the exception catching functionality
 
Also, those exceptions don't really give you anything, you cannot really handle them as they're not supposed to be thrown :p
 
11:37 AM
@NathanOliver You know what I mean, exception as in error
 
@Magisch Here is a good little read: stackoverflow.com/questions/4506369/…
 
@Magisch - Its like this. You try to insert a duplicate record. DB throws error - "insert failed". You rethrow a "operation cannot be done because .." exception to the user
 
@Tunaki What's the benefit to not catching an exception which will leave the program broken? What if you catch it, log it and return to a defined state again?
 
@Henders There's nothing to catch
That exception means that the program is broken
not that the input is invalid
or the user did something wrong
 
@Tunaki catch (Exception ex) {}
:p
 
11:39 AM
Because it should have been handled earlier? @Tunaki
 
Just catch all the exceptions.
What could go wrong
:o
 
@Henders Not really handled, but the code should make sure those exceptions aren't thrown
 
@Seth int main() try { ... } catch (...) {}?
 
@Tunaki Nice, that's the missing piece in the puzzle for me. Thanks
 
I see a whole lot of people not validate function input at all and instead catch and rethrow a "function input invalid" exception to the log instead
Feels kinda dirty for me
 
11:41 AM
Because it is
 
That is dirty :|
 
Smashing a door to come in, and trying to put it back together when it breaks
 
If I know I'm about to access an array, and I know its fixed size, then what is stopping me from using an if block to check if I would be out of bounds
 
@Magisch Nothing and you should do that
 
@Magisch Branch prediction.
 
11:42 AM
I don't get how you end up with an ArrayIndexOutOfBondsException :| ...
 
@Seth The same way you get a segfault in c
 
@Magisch I don't know C :c
 
@Seth Segfault is what you get when you try to access memory your process doesn't own
 
@NathanOliver I'd worry about catching those exceptions before worrying about branch prediction :)
 
In C arrays are pointers (roughly, please don't yell at me)
 
11:44 AM
@Magisch Oh, well, how are you trying to access your array? :p
 
if I have an int myArray[50]; then myArray is a pointer to the first element in that array
 
Uhh
 
@Tunaki It depends. There are two schools of thought on array access. One is total speed, let the caller worry about validating the access if they want. The other is lets hold the callers hand and do the work for them. Me personally I'm in the first group. I do not like paying for things I do not need.
 
so if I do myArray[50] = 200; I'm trying to access the memory location 50 integers away from the first
 
@Magisch ARRAYS ARE NOT POINTERS ;)
 
11:46 AM
but since my array is only 50 big (the system only reserved a total of 50 ints worth of space for me)
 
@Seth Neither does Magisch...
 
my process tries to access memory that is not meant for it (or may be, you may not get a segfault and instead read a random value, thats part of why its dangerous)
@NisseEngström grml
 
Kyll after his first fight with the RO team
 
@NisseEngström I know just enough C to be dangerous :D
 
@Magisch "Gefährliches Halbwissen" :p
@kayess Snoring? :D
 
11:49 AM
If you listened to the SO C community, everything is nothing
Unless you get it 100% right, its worthless
That said I don't have an iron grip on pointers yet
 
@kayess That was after the meeting, really
 
@Kyll Zzz .... Zzz .... Zzzz ....
:P
Sure it wasn't during the meeting?
 
Oh there was a meeting?
 
@Seth What did you think the timeouts were for? Quick naps!
 
Smokey's a bit slow today. Had flagged that a few seconds before the report here.
 
12:04 PM
You're just more botty every day :)
 
Haha, That also. But I always thought that websocks are faster than API calls.
 
@Kyll Clever :p
 
It doesn't seem to be the case.
 
Well, Smokey had a bad day yesterday. I'm sure he's still hung over
 
12:08 PM
Yeah. Hope he's recovering fast. ;)
 
@Machavity There was a dev in production again
 
awesome
 
Real devs test in production.
 
They like to "Do it live" in charcoal.
 
Yup.
 
12:10 PM
That's what everyone does (Except Tuna ofc). :D
 
I don't test. It just works.
 
Okay Jon Skeet... ;)
 
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Sep 19 at 10:03, by ArtOfCode
Oh, crap. Sorry guys - I just hit the wrong Revoke Tokens button... and revoked everyone's tokens instead of just my own. Script will either (a) ask you to re-authenticate, or (b) break, next time you use it.
^ Spoiler: It was (b)
 
Congrats @Kyll. (I don't remember wishing you before)
 
12:16 PM
Quick SEDE question: Can I search for badges somehow? Like, user with x badges? :o
 
It was totally unexpected :D :D
 
@Seth There is a badges table yes
 
@NathanOliver You called Jon Skeet.
 
He doesn't hear me. He has yet to take over the C++ tag.
 
@Tunaki Ahh, thanks alot :) Is there a site with guidelines regarding the usage of SEDE? Are there any big NO-NOs? :o
 
12:18 PM
@BhargavRao Thanks =D
 
@PraveenKumar Have to say his name 3 times in a row to summon him tho
 
@BhargavRao apparently it was not except for me o_o
 
@Seth Yes.
 
Jon Skeet.
Jon Skeet.
Jon Skeet.
Eh... @Machavity Nothing happened.
 
@PraveenKumar Your website now says "Pwned by Jon Skeet"
 
12:20 PM
@Tunaki So... no big NO-NOs? o.ô
 
@Machavity Nope, it doesn't.
 
@Seth Public data. You can do what you want with it.
 
:P
 
@Tunaki That's nice! :) Thanks alot.
 
@Machavity It still has my lovely face on it.
 
12:21 PM
I will have a lot of fun with that I believe.
 
12:38 PM
Woot. 20Ker's can now edit the friendly name for tags for Docs. It is in the tag wiki edit.
 
@NathanOliver Oh let me try with with Maven
 
Go ahead
Let me know how it works
 
How do you do it?
 
Go to the tag wiki, and then edit tag wiki, it should be right at the top.
 
It works \o/
 
12:41 PM
Woot \o/
 
This java crap
 
First thing I can do without hitting an error in Docs.
Incredible.
 
They are looking at extending it to Gold badge holders as well. There is also a request to let anyone else do it and just handle it as a tag wiki edit.
 
I'm severely not getting used to not having to free my memory
 
@Tunaki lol
 
12:43 PM
Are you complaining about having a garbage collector?
 
@Magisch Welcome to garbage collection.
 
free() wherefore arth thou?!
@JanDvorak Yes
 
@seth my games always end up with the query aborting because it took too much time
 
I like to control every aspect of my program
 
I could probably learn more SQL to avoid that part of the time, but it's rather disruptive
 
12:44 PM
@Magisch Not even in C you do
 
@Magisch write in assembly then
 
I did write some assembly before
C is close though
 
Nah, even assembly creates a huge header in your exe files. Assembly is fine, but be sure to compile to .com
 
@tripleee Ow :<
 
By "control every aspect" I mean things like I decide how much memory I need and for how long
 
12:46 PM
@Magisch yeah, I like the saying: C combines the flexibility and power of assembly language with the user-friendliness of a low-level language
 
@Magisch C is it then. Maybe Go.
Me, I prefer getting things done. I use Ruby.
 
for quick and dirty half jobs I have php
 
I heard nice things about Rust but I'm too busy doing real things to learn yet another language
 
@Magisch ur wierd
 
and vba
 
12:47 PM
(it hurt to type this)
 
@JanDvorak rly? :p
 
writing a good c program feels like making nice looking art
when you see everything working exactly as you want, and do exactly as you want, it feels great
 
@Magisch I guess you're into steampunk then?
 
To many * in C for me.
 
and a linux guy?
 
12:49 PM
@NathanOliver entirely depending on how many pointers you use :p
 
I see too many three and four star programmers. You also get them in C++ but those are the people who are taught C++ as just C with classes.
 
@NathanOliver Three and four star programmers?
 
@Magisch those who use pointers to pointers to pointers
 
some_type*** some_name, some_type**** some other name
 
int****** real_pointer
 
12:51 PM
You mean people that use abominations like ****myVar or what?
 
shudders
 
In reality you need relatively few pointers
They're powerful, but for most cases you can avoid using them without any issues
 
I don't need pointers. I like my object references just fine.
 
Wow, messing it up with 4 star pointers (with the code compiling correctly) is actually close to art.
 
making something work with 4 star pointers is art
 
12:53 PM
By "art" do you mean kludge?
 
Art in the same way these impossibly intricate timepieces are
doing an ultimately super simple job in a very complicated and hard to fathom way
 
So esoteric
 
meh. I just stick a quartz oscillator to a frequency divider, then to a counter, then to a set of 7-segment decoders, then to an LCD panel.
 
I would like to always write nice and clean C code at work
Instead I maintain a 400mb big monster of a ms access 2003 legacy app
 
Idli. Dosa. Vada.
 
12:56 PM
@PraveenKumar Don't attract negative attention to post unless they need active moderation from the room
 
@Kyll or unless they are amusing to look at
 
Now that you're RO, can we still throw you?
 
throws @Kyll at @Magisch
Yes.
 
throws @Kyll and gets no damage
 
12:58 PM
morning @Kyll
 
When you see Kyll's code, it is like this:
extremely_private Kyll extends Throwable {
6
 
@JanDvorak Nope.
@ryanyuyu mroning Plop ryan =D
 
Is Kyll public though
 
@Magisch He's extremely private. Updated the code as such.
 

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