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12:22 AM
@earl Cool. Perhaps the pre-commit script could do a full cycle of make clean, make prep, confirm no warnings or errors, run tests, and then do the whole thing again with the bootstrap result so it could catch bootstrap breaks too.
 
Yeah, we should probably just have a make bootstrap target.
But we definitely need to further clean up the build for that.
 
 
3 hours later…
3:02 AM
Okay, I need to invent a language called "Ooo" (pronounced oooh!) in which the input is a file that contains only capital and lowercase letter O. That way I can actually write an entire database using only the letter O.
Anyway, REB[o]L could be a fun thing to work into tutorials somehow.
 
 
6 hours later…
9:30 AM
@earl Well, regarding Red on R3 instead of R2...I just started looking at it.
I think that the best outcome will be if R3 and Red can standardize. Remember that my hostile fork icon is a joke, I'm actually anti-forks and pro-consensus.
I would hope that R3 is still formative enough to accept things like FUNCTION over FUNCT, and that the stable offering of R2 and scarce deployment of R3 means that the two languages can hammer out their differences across a common subset. That common subset can then either run on a Rebol interpreter or a Red compiler. The most important thing being to agree on the parser.
First issue I hit now trying to use the R3 to build Red is that it wants to use WORDs in some procedurally generated performance analysis code that will not be in danger of conflicting with something the user typed. So you get things like TO WORD! "<s>" which was legal in Rebol 2 but Rebol 3 has been more restrictive.
 
10:10 AM
(And I like to point out anomalies, so when the breaking line is uniquely called out with a comment that says ;-- superman's logo ;) I wonder if breaking the build was the goal, because a successful build with R3 would be contrary to justice. Although I'm not quite sure why that would be. :-P)
 
 
6 hours later…
3:55 PM
There are now 397 watchers of the r3 source on GitHub, and 126 forks. That's not bad considering, but it does point to the idea that people are watching and slow integrations to the trunk are bad for morale...
 
Integration speed has been quite ok, so far, I'd say.
 
Well, referring specifically to pull req 40 but more about how quickly feedback on what a request needs to do to be accepted than a specific complaint about the absolute rate.
 
Pull req #40 is irrelevant. No users needing that feature, no documentation for the feature, no tests.
(My opinion only, of course.)
 
Well, I don't really think people were clamoring for SET-ENV either; still it relates to something I'm trying to do, and if the few people who are currently taking an active interest in developing feel they are blocked they'll go do something else with their time.
 
Are you feeling blocked?
(Also note that we don't know how many of the 397 people who starred the repository are also watching it for notifications. Typically, hardly any of the "stargazers" do. The 126 people who forked were automatically set up to watch for notifications, but we don't know how many of them "unwatched".)
 
4:18 PM
Depends on what you mean by blocked. I kind of just wanted to get the const correct literals thing in so I could continue the C++11-based static analysis and hunt out undefined behavior and find likely bugs by going into widely used types and changing their definitions to be strongly typed (catching the wrong enum being used, for instance)
Nothing's really stopping me, it's just more about wanting the basic stuff hammered out in the process with the tabs and stuff before I go around and have to do everything several times. I set the limit at doing things twice, favicons or otherwise. :-)
 
Why not continue on that path while concurrently trying to upstream changes you deem worthy?
git rebase will become your friend in maintaining personal branches up-to-date with the current mainline :)
 
It's good to learn more about git and group workflow tactics. I have been very insular and a bit of a caveman myself in that respect.
 
Open source sometimes makes different velocities all that more apparent. I've found perseverance combined with a relaxed approach to be absolutely necessary to not go mad over this.
 
Well I'm also sick right now so I kind of have to tackle little things that don't need a lot of focus. Looking at building Red with the open source r3 release. Speaking of which, Red is bigger than the little tinkery Rebol things I tend to work on as thought experiments. So it's showing me how little I know about Rebol debugging in a multi-script call chain.
 
Porting Red to R3 is serious work, I fear :) I spent a few hours well in the past (only for Red/System back then, before Red proper existet) playing with that as well. The main roadblock is that PARSE is quite different between R2 and R3, and Red's implementation is extremely reliant on PARSE.
 
4:34 PM
Hm. What's the big non-backwards-compatible change(s)?
Speaking of collective open-source development, and on the heels of the Red animation, here's a Gource animation of Linux kernel development 1991-2012. Nearly three hours long and looks like an epic space battle.
 
I don't think there's a concise summary about PARSE differences (but I'd be happy to be shown otherwise). One visible difference is that there are much more keywords in R3's PARSE: rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/parsing-summary.html#section-3
I've seen a Gource visualisation of LLVM's history a few years back. That was quite amazing as well :) (No link handy, sorry.)
 
Well, they're hard to watch when they're that big.
One needs to be able to pin an interest point and then have the camera follow it
 
5:21 PM
Wrote up an extensive answer to @dt's Rebol 3 CGI question:
0
A: How to write a "Hello, World" CGI with Rebol 3?

earlAt the time of this writing (2013-01), Rebol 3 still lacks the few CGI-supporting functions which where bundled with Rebol 2. However, if you are fine with hacking up the missing CGI support yourself, you can still get going right away. Before we start, you need to store the R3 binary on the mac...

 
Extensive! +1 :-)
 
Wanted to write up a simple R3 CGI example for quite a while. So I thought: well, why not put it on SO :)
 
People will one day look back and laugh at the idea of throwing information out into the void where it can't be updated and reorganized.
I'm ahead of the curve, which is why I'm already laughing about it. :-P
Did my first Wikipedia edit in a long time yesterday and it's still... technologically wimpy across the board. No good notifications and dashboarding what you need to keep on top of, a lot of threads that go dead. But as long as people are paying attention, even if the original author wanders off someone else can pick it up.
 
5:45 PM
@AndroidMobileAppDeveloper Welcome...I don't know if you're here for specific interest in Rebol, but it just had an initial port to Android.
So I have a certain understanding of Rebol as being a bit like Nomic...a game of self-amendment in which changing the rules is itself a move in the game.
In that sense, PROTECT and PROTECT/HIDE are important tools in the layering, and the security model is very important as well. My understanding is that Carl had to work somewhat hard on making it possible to get things to run when immutability was applied to the system context. Perhaps a bit like const-correctness or functional programming's notions of immutability.
I don't know anything about the module system, but having the interpreter able to speak network protocols out of the box and DO a script via http address gives it some of the fluidity of JavaScript/Browser programmers have today...but with these added ideas and the security model it should be a bit better, along with the Rebol aesthetic advantage.
So I'm wondering how much should go in the box. CGI functions seem like one of those "doesn't belong in core but you can add it easily through a remote DO if you want to try it out, which you could then promote to moduling or encapping" (or whatever).
 
 
2 hours later…
7:59 PM
@HostileFork A "remote DO" (better: IMPORT) combined with a pragmatic and reliable package management infrastructure would certainly be nice. (Compare for example with Go which allows remote imports a'la import "github.com/user/project" and has a go get command for managing such dependencies.)
However, another approach is to use delayed modules combined with being able to build custom binaries. We could have a "batteries included" binary, which is a self-sufficient .exe just as R2 is now, and where most functionality only slows down startup as little as possible all the while only being e.g. an import 'cgi away.
 

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