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02:00 - 07:0007:00 - 00:00

2:22 AM
@Morwenn Ah, that did the trick. Thanks!
@JacobGood1 Keep us posted...
 
2:50 AM
@kealist If you want to ask about RenCpp source like "why is this line here" or things of that nature, please do. e.g. if you see something go by in a commit and just want to know, there's inline commenting..feel free to use it
The more people looking at it, the better.
 
3:31 AM
Making RenCpp demo video, having a hard time deciding what to say.
What should I say? :-)
 
3:58 AM
@HostileFork You tell me! :P
 
@WiseGenius Offhand not remembering if you've built it or not... hm, did you?
 
No, I haven't had time yet. In general, I haven't had time to do much of my usual Rebol/Red stuff lately, so I've been looking forward to the video.
 
I'll try not to disappoint the fans
 
4:57 AM
@HostileFork hey, I went to run rencpp(using the play button in qt creator) and it said
/home/jacob/Qt5.4.0/5.4/gcc/include/QtGui/qopengl.h:122: error: GL/gl.h: No such file or directory
# include <GL/gl.h>
^
I am running linux mint inside of virtual box
 
@JacobGood1 You need a magic sudo apt get for that
 
sudo apt-get install ????
what do I need to fill in
 
7
Q: Compile OpenGL Program (Missing GL/gl.h)

SeldomI am a complete Linux/Ubuntu noob, so I apologize for any dumb portions of this question or follow up ones. I am trying to get a program that my software engineering class's group wrote onto my home computer. At school, we have linux, and it will compile and run fine there. I downloaded VMWare, ...

Something along these lines
 
@HostileFork wow apt-file search is nifty!
thanks for that, I used to just google forever for missing deps
 
@JacobGood1 In the toolchain hell we reject, yes, that's useful to know :-)
A reasonable question is, however, "why do I need OpenGL to build a non-OpenGL program"?
These dependencies creep in when it's got wild stuff like SetWindowOpacity; fact is, even when writing "ordinary" programs, these days your windows are going to have some OpenGL in them, and it's "assumed" you use graphics compositing.
You kind of have to go super retro to turn all that off, running Rebol on Haiku etc.
It doesn't need the OpenGL dependency on Windows, I don't think
 
5:10 AM
@HostileFork Nope it doesn't
 
@HostileFork
Starting /home/jacob/Desktop/RenCPP/rencpp-build/examples/function-1...
blk is 1 2 3
function-1: /home/jacob/Desktop/RenCPP/rencpp/src/rebol-binding/rebol-hooks.cpp:704: ren::internal::RebolHooks::~RebolHooks(): Assertion `nodes.empty()' failed.
The program has unexpectedly finished.
/home/jacob/Desktop/RenCPP/rencpp-build/examples/function-1 crashed
 
@JacobGood1 Well that's... half good! :-) What does the test exe report?
That assertion is a leak, I thought it was gone.
Essentially, all the C++ objects that wrap a Rebol/Red value are tracked; they have to be, because without some kind of tracking, the garbage collector wouldn't know the C++ program is holding on to a reference.
That's just a bookkeeping thing saying "hey, have we properly tracked all the C++ objects wrapping the values" and the answer there is no, which is not good, but at least the check is there to tell us about the not good thing... and either the tracking is buggy or the code it's designed to track is buggy
And, I haven't actually hooked the GC up, so if the GC runs you're hosed...but it's relatively easy to fix, however it requires something I have been putting off (modifying Rebol, because simply put, no such hook exists). However, given other modifications that have been made, adding that one isn't so big a deal.
 
Well I did my duty =)
 
@JacobGood1 Well, you'll do it when you run Ren Garden! Go in the workbench dir
And run the "workbench"
 
I have never used qt before in my life
 
5:17 AM
@JacobGood1 First time for everything. (Except the things you never do.)
 
@HostileFork thus, workbench?
 
There's a saying that goes "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Okay. How about "Nobody should throw stones." That's crappy behavior. My policy is: "No stone throwing regardless of housing situation." Don't do it. There is one exception though. If you're trapped in a glass house, and you have a stone, then throw it. What are you, an idiot?
So maybe it's "Only people in glass houses should throw stones, provided they are trapped in the house with a stone." It's a little longer, but yeah.
--Demetri Martin
 
that monitor at the lower left
has something called workbench
highlighted it and hit run
ren garden is now displaying
 
Woot!
Ctrl + or Ctrl - to adjust font size
So for x [1 thru 10] [print x]...works?
 
yes
 
5:20 AM
Nice
How about shell [ls -alF]
 
yes
 
How about just shell
Then, ls (reverse {Fla-})
 
@HostileFork yes
 
Now Ctrl-Space
then test on
Then FOO: *.cpp
Perhaps then ls :foo
Then maybe Ctrl-Space
and test off
 
yes i think lol
 
5:22 AM
And now double tap escape
 
>> yes
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
lol
 
So... Ctrl-T
now x: 10
 
yes
 
5:23 AM
then y: 20
then watch x
And watch y
And watch (x * y)
 
yes and now its getting interesting!
 
The shell is pretty interesting, IMO.
 
this was the climx?
 
How about this
 
shell was neat
 
5:25 AM
console :print
 
but hey
im a sucker for interactive programming
 
Then {Hello} 3 + 4 {World}
 
bret victor style stuff
 
Ha, glad you would think of the comparison, I like his work
So the console is able to make any function the command processor, with that little Ctrl-Space trick
So if you hit Escape-Escape again
And do help shell
or help console
You notice it has a /META refinement
So, the thing is, a single-arity function that takes a block is a viable console function
But, if you ctrl-space, then that will implicitly pass the "/META"
Gettit?
 
nope
but I will in time lol
 
5:28 AM
Well, you can write a function... like how about this one
timed: function ['arg [block! lit-word!] /meta] [
    if meta [
        if arg = quote 'prompt [return {timed}]
        if arg = quote 'banner [print {Timed console dialect} end]
        print {Meta evaluation}
        probe arg
        end
    ]
    start: stats/timer
    do arg
    console combine/with [
        "Command completed in"
        to-string (stats/timer - start)
    ] space
]
Then, console :timed
 
wow
i see now
 
Clever, no?
(We are sort of known around here for that.)
 
you can put the console in "modes" so that it auto-magically does things right?
 
Well, I gave it a mode per tab...
 
how many of these modes can you run at one time... one per tab?
 
5:31 AM
Yup
Although, I was thinking about a chaining model
Like what if I wanted a "timed shell"
 
is there a name for them?
to tell you the truth this is a lot like emacs
you are really creating something cool here
 
Yes, except Rebol is more pleasant to read.
Glad you think so
 
that is why im using the word mode =P
 
So for some more fun
How about hitting shift-enter
 
dang, a rebol emacs... !@#$ yes!
2
whoops it crashed
 
5:33 AM
Aw
Well, it's bleeding edge, and one of the things on my list is recovery
 
but i think it was going to allow me to more cleanly enter in code and eval when i was done?
 
If you shift-enter, it should (unless I've broken it lately) take you to a multi line mode :-/
Where you might type if ap and then hit tab :-)
 
yea, basically I can enter rebol code without crap loads of [[[[[[ on the left side of the console
 
And then hit tab again
And it says it will eval with Ctrl-enter, but...
Don't hit ctrl enter, just hit enter a few times at the end
That's a nice ergonomic, don't you think?
 
yea, i like control enter though it is what I used to eval lisp code =)
 
5:35 AM
Oh, something you might not be used to
Hit Ctrl-Z
 
hold on gotta fire it back up
 
Sigh. Well, more testers needed :-) It's just a demo, remember.
 
interesting a history undo
very nice!
that gets rid of all the cruft that builds up in the repl
I LOVE IT
great job hostile
 
:-)
And if it hangs, hold down escape...
(stole that from my chromebook)
 
You may have not refered to this as an ide but I would call it one
 
5:38 AM
It's an "IDC", as @iceflow19 said.
 
coming from lisp, i love being in an always connected state with my code, ren garden brings that feeling back
 
Well, here's something
How about console/meta [buffer {Hello}]
 
@HostileFork I've been pondering some new features that could shift it more in that direction.
 
So then, that's the same (right) as Ctrl-Space and then buffer {Hello} if you were in console
 
Heh, this could be the new emacs, without the crappy, gimptastic, elisp
 
@HostileFork Cute
 
@JacobGood1 Okay, but now, how about this. Ctrl-Space. buffer [{Hello} space || {Selection} | space {World}]
 
@HostileFork you just dont stop! =)
this is too cool
 
The thing is, you don't have to be a C++ programmer to contribute to the project.
And that's an important point I'd like to not have people overlook, because, there are some people who seem to murmur and go "well I don't get it"
That's totally gettable
 
@HostileFork that's totally git-able
 
5:46 AM
January is about to overturn here, and I've spent two months of my life on this.
Which, you know, we could talk about how and why I would do such a thing, and... that gets philosophical.
 
@HostileFork what about red, does red work with this?
 
And other people have come and joined in, which is unusual... usually I build things alone, it seems.
@JacobGood1 I started it with Red, but needed a C test framework, and figured... eh... why write a fake one when I could just use Rebol
So Rebol happened first.
 
sometimes you have to build the right thing ;)
this could be THE red ide
 
Well DocKimbel won't be happy
 
because of all the c++?
 
5:49 AM
He thinks Qt is a monster and one should wear garlic necklaces to stay away
No, just because it's a large dependency
C++ programs aren't necessarily any bigger than C ones.
But he doesn't program in C either, so.
It's not like that line of argumentation is a winning one there.
 
well... when it comes to graphics compromises have to be made...
 
Abstraction is something both beautiful and terrible.
And I think, it wouldn't be so necessary for Rebol and Red to be as antagonistic toward abstraction if the average person weren't so blithely tolerant to it.
 
ok, just get him to hire you as the ide dev in China, I hope you like kung pow chicken
 
The last thing he wants to do is hinge the plan for Red on my ideas :-P
But I still may have some concepts worth listening to.
And I think Ren Garden is neat, it does have some fun feeling to it
It crashes too much, and something has to be done about that, but thing #1 to do is recovery
So crashes "hurt less"
And if you've noticed, we've set up Travis CI on RenCpp, which was a good step
I'd like to see more steps in the right direction, in that spirit.
@marttt I feel like I've seen your avatar before.
Ah, yes, I have.
 
@HostileFork I hope it would not be hard to port this ide to red vid or whatever the qt replacement for red would be
 
5:59 AM
@JacobGood1 Well it's not hard to run the interpreter, it's trivial actually. I could probably do it in a few days, except, there is a matter of principle here... where I'd like from his org to see someone coming in and expending some effort.
The bigger question is, how might Ren Garden interface with compiled code, vs. interpreted. No answer for that.
And when you're going off on your own, not building to LLVM or other knownst IL, where are you getting your debug from? Not GDB.
I wished, that Red targeted LLVM from the start.
 
@HostileFork I wish the same actually
I just think it would ease the burden by a massive amount
 
@HostileFork Ditto
 
Well, I think it will become inevitable
 
there is a dialect of common lisp that targets llvm, it gets c++ interop for "free"
I should not say dialect, it is a port
 
Some people have said, that my avatar gives them nightmares. I wonder if my suggestions would be heard better if I perhaps used my cat as the avatar.
 
6:05 AM
I like your avatar
but anyway
time for bed, thanks for ren garden, I will be using it to learn rebol
 
Well, yes, Red can run in Ren Garden, but you know e.g. Redbot isn't compiling.
So the question is "what's the story of Ren Garden with Compiled Red"
@JacobGood1 Well I think you get the spirit, it's prettier Lisp, but there's some little gems even if you think Lisp has been there / done that.
Thanks for the engagement, means a lot.
 
@HostileFork Maybe you should try DocileSpoon :)
 
@iceflow19 Graham already did. HappySpoon
 
MelancholySpork?
 
@HostileFork keep working on ren garden, if we get enough people using it it may just force doc to accept it =)
good night
 
6:08 AM
@JacobGood1 Nite!
 
@JacobGood1 Nite
 
Sometimes I forget how good some of these movies are.
 
@HostileFork I know what you mean.
 
For those of you who haven't seen it, I think Wreck-It-Ralph was quite good.
I don't have kids and such, but I feel like that one stuck with me a bit longer than LEGO movie, which was obviously a bit more work.
 
I haven't. Wall-E kind of reminds me of Short Circuit (but not in plot obviously).
 
6:14 AM
Weren't you younger? I mean, presumably you're not 19, but when would you have seen short circuit? :-)
 
@draegtun No, I don't mean to add it to your answer. I mean to add it as a brand new answer as if you are answering for a different language altogether. I think we can say there are enough differences between Rebol 2 and 3 to justify that? :-)
@draegtun In fact, I think I am going to do just that. But I might ask you then to change the title of your answer to "Rebol 3" if you don't mind. Probably will have people jumping all over it, but I stand by my previous argument.
 
@mydoghasworms Just noticed you have 7042 rep, and your favorite language is Ruby... SPY ALERT! Who are you and who do you work for? :-P
 
It's a free country, man. Oh wait, mine is. Not sure about yours :-PPP
 
@HostileFork Im 23. But we watched older 80's movies at my house growing up. We also watched alot of scifi genre movies and shows.
 
@iceflow19 I saw Short Circuit in the theater :-)
I liked it, I think I like the idea of military machines that are very capable at blowing stuff up deciding not to. As a theme.
 
6:21 AM
My Dad for example made me watch the original Battlestar Galactica.
 
It's not as good
Budgets were lower, in those days
 
@HostileFork Meh, Im not too big into the drama-y scifi so my judgement is out on which was better.
 
I still think GalaxyQuest is pretty funny, worth a watch if you missed that one.
 
I thought Stargate Universe was a complete let down because of all the drama. I have Fanon Discontinuity over it. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanonDiscontinuity
@HostileFork Haven't seen it.
 
@iceflow19 It's kind of funny, I thought.
 
6:28 AM
@HostileFork Have you seen John Carter?
 
@iceflow19 You've probably seen the original Tron or things from back then, but this TV series I used to watch... your dad might have made you watch Knight Rider too :-)
 
@HostileFork Oh how did you guess?
 
@HostileFork Ruby is a pretty sweet language. I am trying to compile mruby with an extension for SDL2 and then ultimately it would be nice to get something working on Android. It would be so much cooler writing apps for mobile in Ruby than in Lua.
 
@iceflow19 Hunch.
link: REBOL to become open source http://www.rebol.com/article/0511.html
@mydoghasworms Also, this needs an update: rubol.hostilefork.com
BrianH had some ideas for that as well, but it's just been off everyone's radar lately
 
@HostileFork I've also watched Quantum Leap, and Sliders.
 
6:34 AM
@iceflow19 Sliders always felt cheezier to me than Quantum Leap
Scott Bakula is a good actor
I think it's always going to be hard to make a "timeless" show
Things change and environments evolve, but having been to film school and such, I think you can go back and watch the methodical works that were put together by people... and... sometimes they're good
Casablanca is, still, pretty good
 
True. Hands down though my favorite scifi movie and series would be Stargate.
 
I didn't watch the TV show, just the movie
Wasn't Macgyver in the TV show?
 
Ya.
 
Did your dad make you watch Macgyver too? :-)
Someone call CPS!
 
No, it just never really peaked my interest.
And my Dad only made me watch a few things, most I watched on my own.
 
6:38 AM
@iceflow19 Sweet theme song: youtube.com/watch?v=UKTNWI0eYJ4
Something interesting to me, is the Dr. Who rebooting
That's not something I would have put money on getting rebooted
 
Im so-so with Dr. Who
 
Batman, eh, sure
They'll make a million Batmans
But Dr. Who?
In 2015?
I just find it a little hard to understand who the audience for that would be.
@iceflow19 So, did you watch Breaking Bad?
 
You'd be surprised how many people I run into that like the franchise (Dr. Who).
 
I watched it start to finish, and I don't watch much TV
It was really good.
 
@HostileFork Started it, but got busy.
 
6:43 AM
It's deep and dark, I think, you have to be interested in character studies.
Bryan Cranston is a very good actor.
 
Have you seen Independence Day? When July 4 rolls around its my family's tradition to watch it.
 
And I'm not just saying it because other people say that.
 
@HostileFork That's my cup of tea.
 
@iceflow19 Yes, and whenever I think of it I think of the scene where the alien is holding the guy's face up to the glass, and he says "What do you want us to do?" and the alien makes him say "DIE..."
I think that, to me, is the scene that sticks with me.
It's about species that have no ability to reconcile their differences, this very stark glare given... "WE WILL NEVER AGREE"
I think, it would be best, if that could be avoided.
 
@HostileFork For me its the toilet seat comment.
 
6:46 AM
@iceflow19 Don't recall. Clip?
Wait. Is Marilyn Manson still making music?
 
Let me hunt it down.
 
I had not heard of that until just in an ad now.
Marilyn Manson made another album, that's... well I guess I have to listen.
"What's he on about now."
 
@iceflow19 Oh, hah, yes
I remember that
That is before your time also, it was big news about accountants going over government spending and nothing added up
And that is actually the line items they were finding, crazy amounts of money for toilet seats etc.
 
The irony is that it is a fairly accurate in regards to the DOD
 
6:49 AM
Well, there's also deliberate dark money
I mean, there's a certain spending budget intelligence agencies have they don't have to account for
So it makes these weird things that are put in non dark money accounts all the more odd
 
Ya, I know...
 
Like "why didn't you just say 'we won't tell you what it cost or why'. why $300 toilet seat?"
You have an actual spy budget.
 
Well maybe it was research on lethal toilet seats. You got to watch out for them!
 
@iceflow19 Hey, I've tried to give this away to other people, but quick
@iceflow19 ever see one of these? youtube.com/watch?v=5Q63hSmbhxA
 
@HostileFork In Ruby you can sum an array with primes.inject(:+). I'm not commenting on your work, just the example Ruby code you referenced there.
 
6:52 AM
@HostileFork Yep.
 
@iceflow19 You're only 23 so in your timeframe download this. What's great about the hobermann sphere is it's rigid; no elasticity; it grows and shrinks without a need for elastic property, right?
@iceflow19 So... bear with me here, build not hobermann spheres but hobermann rectangular prisms; slight mod
 
Hmm interesting.
 
@iceflow19 But flat; small flat rectangular hobermann prisms. But, build a matrix of them. e.g. that these concentrated prisms, when expanded, their skeletal bits cover different space on each layer. I could draw it for you, but, just think...
Each layer of nanotech rectangular hobermann prism accounts for the missing space in the other layers
Yet, they are rigid; it does not rely on elasticity
(You have about 3 or 4 years before nanotech will be able to do this, btw)
 
Im having a hard time visualizing it, regrettably.
 
Now, how about putting lights at the joints
Ok, well think how a hobermann sphere is all concentrated
And then you extend it and it gets very sparse
Now imagine a light on each joint
A computer model can easily tell you, based on the expansion, where the light is
It just has to know the measurements of the sphere
And have some sensor to know how expanded it is
@iceflow19 Am I wrong? Identify the failure in my logic.
 
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