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00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

11:00 PM
@earl Rails is in the 15K range
I guess one might review the challenges or concerns they face with it.
 
I cannot wait for Red to to hit 1.0 and for HF to write his book...
 
@HostileFork probably most of them are on how to install the thing
 
@JacobGood1 I'll put you on the pre-orders list. :-)
 
Now that I have hyper-V I might have another go at installing softcover if I can get ror installed
 
There are already a lot of books titled "Seeing Red." Which is too bad.
 
11:03 PM
@HostileFork has Doc made any new talks about Red yet?
Seeing Red would be a great name
 
@JacobGood1 Busy with moving to China, and not wanting to listen to things that concern me, although, he has made a couple of gestures... he fixed the lit-word thing I don't like, and he wrote actually a long response today about why he thinks his multi-line-comment idea is better than mine.
 
@HostileFork he still has not gotten settled over there yet? Also, where is the response?
 
He basically thinks that if you want a multi-line comment you have it in a string literal, as braces nest, and then you can use comment
And the fact that this is not handled by dialects does not concern him.
 
Since were in Rebol land why not have a comment type? =P
 
TL;DR version. Long version here
The problem with actually concretizing comments comes down to the evaluator
Yes, the evaluator can skip over comment! and pretend it is not there
But if you're going to do that, then when do you see comments? If the first element of a block is a comment! and you ask for first do you see it or not?
You wind up having some parallel meta API so that you can say first-and-comments-count vs first-and-comments-dont-count
However you say it, that's a tax.
 
11:08 PM
You can relegate that from the evaluator to the loader (== parser). Per default, comments are discarded upon load. With a special refinement, they are reified.
Mainly useful for external DSLs and transformations over Rebol code. But for some, that's probably still useful enough.
 
Well, the reified version would face a challenge if the evaluator saw them in terms of what it could do beyond basic restructuring.
In Draem I have source-to-source transforms and I want to do the transforms based on information like "hey, what's the value in the header?" but if I cannot use normal evaluator stuff like header/key because there are unrecognized comments choking it up, the logic that would restructure it while preserving comments fails.
Intentional Programming solved this by having the "attributes" keyed on the graph structure identified by UUID. And if you put something under the comment key, it would be displayed by the editor but invisible to the compilation process. Still... if you grabbed that node and used APIs to move it around, the comment would tag along.
The API available to the editor could see into that tag, the API available to the compiler could not.
 
@HostileFork Well, if anything, we know that Doc really wants a hot sauce IDE for Red =).
redmacs
 
@JacobGood1 I think one should choose one's battles, especially when the crew is small... do what you do best.
To me Rebol's charm is bringing a readable and cozy literacy to Lisp methodology, which somehow got edged out in the history of software development and a sort of dark ages emerged after that.
2
 
I think Red is already massive, might as well shoot for the moon
 
And so I focus a lot on that charm; and making sure the eye isn't taken off the ball
Because if it's not charming, or aesthetic, why not just use whatever thing is most popular and collect a bigger paycheck?
 
11:21 PM
Red is ridiculously ambitious, if it is actually pulled off it will be a miracle.
 
I think the timeline is overstated, we've already seen some slips.
red> object [x: 10 y: 20]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
*** Error: word has no value!
== [x: 10 y: 20]
 
We have on tape the objects being done in a couple of months after the conference...
 
red> make object! [x: 10 y: 20]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== make object! [
    x: 10
    y: 20
]
 
11:24 PM
red> foo: make object! [x: 10 y: 20 z: func [] [print x + y]] foo/z
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
30
== make object! [
    x: 10
    y: 20
    z: func [][print x + y]
]
 
Well that must be new, it wasn't there before.
 
hehe =P
 
In any case, not all items have been on schedule, and I think this 1 year bootstrap is inadvisable and will create problems.
Even if technically possible, it is better to have some Red apps that aren't Red tested and deployed instead of making Red itself the poster child for Red.
 
@HostileFork hopefully, Doc can get a ton of Chinese programmers to help him out =).
 
11:26 PM
We'll see; I don't know if we're totally clear on how much help he's going to get and how much he's going to be helping them.
He only committed to 6 months
And says if it doesn't work out, he won't keep doing it
 
@HostileFork yea, there has been no information regarding whether he will get any help.
 
Free place to work with only slightly censored Internet, is the main benefit, I think. He can worry less about donations. Of course he could have come here and stayed in the house I'm in and gotten that without the censored Internet.
So I think we are kind of hoping there is more to the deal than just "free office"
He seems very optimistic about the technical advancements in China and the people at that tech incubator, so let us hope he is right.
 
@HostileFork I'll be moving in next week!
 
@JacobGood1 Got a beach. Haven't bothered to go yet. It's warm now, mentioned yesterday I should probably go.
Not a tech center. Of any sort or form.
There were more people trying to do tech in Maui, Hawaii than here by a long shot.
 
Hawaii is too close to Fukushima for me... which is still spewing its stuff.
 
11:34 PM
@HostileFork what time is it locally? It's a nice autumn day outside here ...
 
@GrahamChiu 7:35pm
 
@HostileFork and the sea is still radioactive warm?
 
0
Q: How do you set initial focus in a layout?

Graham Chiurebol [] view [ f: field "" button "focus" on-action [ focus f ] when [load] on-action [focus f] ] Using the focus button sets the focus correctly but I'd like the focus to set when the panel appears. I'd have thought the load trigger should do this but it doesn't.

 
@GrahamChiu I haven't been to the beach here in years, about 10 years I guess.
In the summer I never recall thinking the water was cold
Not like in LA anyway
 
@HostileFork wow, you never leave the house?
Or do you not live there often?
Or do you leave just not to the beach?
 
11:39 PM
@JacobGood1 Both. I go to the store, but I've been focusing on programming projects.
I'm one of those people who doesn't like to have fun.
 
@HostileFork well, fun is subjective right? I suppose that you have fun doing whatever you do.
 
So in the personal ads where they say "looking for someone who likes having fun..." yeah, that's not me. Next.
 
Anyway though ill be afk...gonna get some food
 
'k. Keep in touch, write some code, pick up a project :-)
 
@HostileFork I do write code just not in Rebol =P
 
11:41 PM
There's your problem right there.
 
11:53 PM
>> foo: make object! [x: 10 y: 20 z: function [] [print x + y]] foo/z
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
30
 
>> foo: make object! [x: 10 y: 20 z: function [] [x: 100 print x + y]] foo/z
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
120
 
red> foo: make object! [x: 10 y: 20 z: function [] [print x + y]] foo/z
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
30
== make object! [
    x: 10
    y: 20
    z: func [][print x + y]
]
 
11:55 PM
red> foo: make object! [x: 10 y: 20 z: function [] [x: 100 print x + y]] foo/z
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
120
== make object! [
    x: 10
    y: 20
    z: func [/local x][x: 100 print x + y]
]
 
Why is Red returning the object? :-/
 
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