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12:24 AM
-2
Q: Formal definition of function: equality

REBOLConsider this formal definition of function, which does not require $A$ to be domain. \vspace{0.5cm} \textit{Let $A$, $B$ be sets, then $F\subseteq A \times B$ is said to be a function iff \begin{itemize} \item $(a,b)\in F$ and $(a,b')\in F$ implies $b=b'$. \end{itemize}} \vspace{0.5cm} So, bei...

Is Carl asking questions about set theory or did someone else make an account named REBOL? :-/
 
12:47 AM
So someone needs to port Rubol to be Redby.
 
1:36 AM
https://github.com/red/red/pull/781
GitHub
Red Pull Req—FIX: regression caused by changes in insert-char function
qtxie
1397763307
 
2:05 AM
"Well, look what we have here... A real Stack Overflow meta, for real Stack Overflow questions. See the blog for details."
 
2:23 AM
So they seem to be migrating on a case by case basis. I'll try and get the open source ads for SO migrated so you can all vote for the Red ad. But I think that run is about to end
So next ad should be a Rebol ad I think. I'll try and pitch that to Carl, to ready the ad... show Red's success w/that and mention how our hands are tied by not being able to show the repository advancing... and it would really help us if that were different.
So this weekend: Rebol ad to Carl and letter. I had my little funny ad about "1997 called they want their interpreter back. Can't have it, it's ours now." Which I think would get clicks if drawn well.
That may not be Carl's sense of humor
So if not that, then what?
 
2:37 AM
Is there a function that tests both for true, and for logic! datatype?
@HostileFork would it be okay to ask on golfcode what the shortest script is to login to SO ?
 
@GrahamChiu If framed as a puzzle, sure. You have to define it, input and output. And maybe there's a more fun way to ask it vs. a boring way
There was a recent question of if you can ask about puzzles where you have an intended application, basically "do my work for me"
1
A: Is presenting a challenge with the intent of using the best answer in an open-source project okay?

Dr. RebmuI don't think it matters if the origins of the challenge are open source or not. People write answers all the time on StackOverflow with full knowledge that they're helping other people do their work, whatever that may be. It's a pay-it-forward kind of thing. People solve the puzzles if they w...

 
So, given a userid/password and stack account, what's the shortest script to login to so. userid/password must be encoded into the script. no user intervention is allowed. Something like that. Would that stop JS entries that used the browser?
 
2:53 AM
Just thought about Grigori Perelman today, and checked in to see if he ever wound up accepting the $1 million prize from the Clay Mathematics institute. He didn't take the money, and he turned down the Fields Medal too.
 
Hmm. Perhaps add the requirement that the so cookies must be saved to the local file system
 
I'm all for symbolic acts, but I'd think he could at least take the money and donate it all to some better cause. Or get it printed as $100 bills and arrange it into a topology proof, then burn it.
Moby let The Gap or somesuch use his music in a commercial and then donated all the money to animal rights or something. His rationale was "well, they'd just give it to someone else and use some other song... why not take the money and give it away".
 
You used to be able to modify the protocol source in memory to patch them. Can you do this in rebol3?
Or being modules, are the protected against such patching?
 
body-of and spec-of and such give you copies
The default function generators also copy/deep. However, if you use make function! then you can theoretically pass in a body and it doesn't make a copy, so you can theoretically hold onto them and modify them out from under the generator.
@RebolBot
body: [print 1 + 2]
foo: make function! reduce [[] body]
replace body 2 3
foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
4
 
3:00 AM
@RebolBot
body: [print 1 + 2]
foo: function [] body
replace body 2 3
foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
3
 
I don't think module has much to do with it
You can probably swap out a function in an object though.
My suggestion of using PROTECT to stop this kind of thing was treated as a bit crazypants, so I would doubt any new protections are in there.
 
so could I patch the sync-op function in the prot-http?
 
Could? I'd imagine so. Should? Hm.
 
Ok, ignore that.
I'd like to get a cookies from a http read easily. Now, if you do this

page: read http://www.rebol.om

Even if cookies are returned, you don't have access to them
To get them, you have to open the site up in the http protocol and I think query the port after a read.
What I want to do is:

page: read rebol.com

to just fetch the data, and

data: write rebol.com [ debug GET / ]

to fetch cookies and the data
Now, does that syntax look too odd?
 
3:18 AM
Yes.
 
Good
Currrently read url and write url [ GET / ] are functionally the same in Rebol3
I'm just adding a debug flag
could make it write url [ headers GET / ] if that looks any less odd ...
If no one has any different suggestions I'll open a discussion on altme before making the PR
 
Are there any read [...] formats, where the block is a dialect saying what you want?
 
nope, there is only a write dialect
 
So any options to read must be done with an explicit port?
 
yes
no refinements either
 
3:25 AM
You often point out that when people want to go nuts with refinements that what they probably actually want is a dialect
 
well, we have a dialect. I am suggesting we expand on it.
 
Well should you have to write to get a cookie? Is an HTTP GET enough to get a cookie back?
I'm uncertain of the value of being able to say READ and then parameterize it so you POST.
 
@HostileFork in http yes, in the rebol http protocol .. not
This is not a http post, the write dialect allows you to do a GET
 
I question the value of doing that.
 
Maybe @earl would argue that this should all be done using 'query on the port
@HostileFork this allows us to send a HEAD, or a DELETE and other http verbs
>> probe write rebol.com [ HEAD / ]
 
3:30 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
[%/ 7118 none]
== [%/ 7118 none]
 
Sigh, the infinite stack of concerns. In the meantime, I've found a way to crash chrome so hard you can't close the tab. Not even using Flash.
 
this is a bug because it should be [ %/ 7118 date-modified ]
 
Other tabs keep working, but the tab you're on freezes the cursor, becomes inactive, won't let you start the debugger.
If you were in the debugger beforehand, it doesn't hang.
 
Maybe I should start raising issues on the Atronix repo, at least they seem to be answering
 
Not a bad idea.
@ShixinZeng is cool. :-)
 
3:43 AM
I'm pretty sure the bug report and fix I made on curecode has languished there since I made it.
 
4:01 AM
BTW, all of this is to end of eventually having a rebol client for SO!
 
4:38 AM
@GrahamChiu An interesting goal to be sure.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:17 AM
Chrome hanging death bug isolated. But do I fix it? How much work do I feel like doing? They offer "$5,000 for moderately complex patches that provide convincing security benefits". Pretty vague. Is visiting a page with plain JavaScript that can freeze a tab such that it cannot be closed a "security problem"? pcworld.com/article/2094580/…
Bounties are for the patches, not for the bugs, in any case.
It turns out you can still close the tab, you just have to use the task manager under the wrench. I didn't know about that. It just freezes and doesn't respond to the close tab button.
Wrench => Tools => Task Manager => Kill Process
What I don't understand is why the per-tab UI doesn't tie that to the X on the tab; isn't the whole GUI its own process?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:29 AM
Watching the original Ghostbusters. "I don't have to take this abuse from you, I've got hundreds of people dying to abuse me." I need to use that line more often. :-)
 
8:27 AM
Greetings @CarlSaldanha ... the bot has not said hi, so I think we may have spoken before. :-)
@RebolBot alive?
 
And the bot is alive. :-)
 
>> do rebol.qyz.cz/convmat.reb convmat/print "Hello world"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
logic! - true
char! - #"H"
binary! - #{48656C6C6F20776F726C64}
string! - "Hello world"
file! - %Hello%20world
email! - Hello%20world
url! - Hello%20world
tag! - <Hello world>
bitset! - make bitset! #{0000000080000000008000000C0921}
block! - [Hello world]
paren! - (Hello world)
path! - Hello/world
set-path! - Hello/world:
get-path! - :Hello/world
lit-path! - 'Hello/world
== [end! none unset! unset! none! none logic! true integer! none decimal! none percent! none money! none char! #"H" pair! none tuple! none time! none date! none binary
 
>> do rebol.qyz.cz/convmat.reb convmat/print 3.14
 
8:35 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
logic! - true
integer! - 3
decimal! - 3.14
percent! - 314%
money! - $3.14
char! - #"^C"
pair! - 3.140000104904175x3.140000104904175
time! - 0:00:03.14
binary! - #{40091EB851EB851F}
string! - "3.14"
file! - %3.14
email! - 3.14
url! - 3.14
tag! - <3.14>
block! - [3.14]
paren! - (3.14)
path! - 3.14
set-path! - 3.14:
get-path! - :3.14
lit-path! - '3.14
== [end! none unset! unset! none! none logic! true integer! 3 decimal! 3.14 percent! 314% money! $3.14 char! #"^C" pair! 3.140000104904175x3.140000104904175 tuple! none time! 0:00:03.14 dat
 
@rebolek Very useful exercise.
AFAIK no one has previously thought to do this. Good work.
 
Yes, it's fairly easy.
>> do rebol.qyz.cz/convmat.reb convmat/print quote a/b/c
 
Lest you think we disagree all the time (I don't think we do, really), let me say, this is the kind of thinking that will advance Rebol/Red. It's not about how easy or hard it is.
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
logic! - true
string! - "a/b/c"
file! - %a/b/c
email! - a/b/c
url! - a/b/c
tag! - <a/b/c>
block! - [a b c]
paren! - (a b c)
path! - a/b/c
set-path! - a/b/c:
get-path! - :a/b/c
lit-path! - 'a/b/c
== [end! none unset! unset! none! none logic! true integer! none decimal! none percent! none money! none char! none pair! none tuple! none time! none date! none binary! none string! "a/b/c" file! %a/b/c email! a/b/c url! a/b/c tag! <a/b/c> bitset! none image! none vector! none block! [a b c] paren! (a b c) path! a/b/c set-path! a/b/c: get-path
 
I guess lot of these conversion should be banned.
number to path etc
 
8:46 AM
Well it's like I said, we have to understand what the goals are.
We have to accept that TO has no refinements. It's input type to target type.
 
@HostileFork I don't think we disgagree ALL the time :)
 
And we have to look to the compass points, let us say the UTF-8 binary conversion for strings.
 
@HostileFork I have no problem with that.
TO is basic conversion, no refinements are needed.
 
Well okay, I'm just saying lay out a list of statements.
Postulates, if you will.
Apply logic, try and minimize the inconsistencies.
 
I've accepted that long time ago :)
 
8:48 AM
I think... that if you look at our disagreements, they have to do mostly with the names of things.
 
So, writing this function was the easy part.
Getting whole matrix...that's much harder.
 
Secondarily, I think that I want to throw in brackets in places that you would rather it be more a stream of consciousness.
But beyond that, I'm not really sure what we disagree on.
 
I'm not the one who said we disagree all the time :)
 
Fork: "Longer names, english speaking bias." "More brackets, because the structure makes the dialect hold together." Rebolek: "To anyone who doesn't speak English, every character of your moon language is an added tyranny." "I prefer to let the dialect figure what I meant, throwing off the syntactic training wheels is what attracted me to this in the first place."
Fair?
 
No problem with that, let's move on and think about the TO matrix.
 
8:52 AM
Well yes, but having you attack a problem that I addressed in seriousness, and doing so, is nice.
So if you have any disagreement with me beyond that, and if we are to actually try and solve a problem
 
>> do rebol.qyz.cz/convmat.reb convmat/print "!@#$%^&*()"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
logic! - true
char! - #"!"
binary! - #{2140232425262A2829}
string! - "!@#$%&*()"
file! - %!@#$%25&*%28%29
email! - !@#$%25&*%28%29
url! - !@#$%25&*%28%29
tag! - <!@#$%&*()>
bitset! - make bitset! #{000000005EE0000080}
== [end! none unset! unset! none! none logic! true integer! none decimal! none percent! none money! none char! #"!" pair! none tuple! none time! none date! none binary! #{2140232425262A2829} string! "!@#$%&*()" file! %!@#$%25&*%28%29 email! !@#$%25&*%28%29 url! !@#$%25&*%28%29 tag! <!@#$%&*()> bitset! make bitset! #{0000
 
Then I want to be sure it is completely in the spirit of problem solving, as some people (cough Kaj cough) do not have that spirit.
And you seemed to find it funny when we argued, so I guess, if I am to accept you as sincerely wanting to engage the problem solving of the conversion matrices
Then I want to be sure you are really serious about solving the problem.
And this is a nice, code-oriented, mark of sincerity (by my measure)
 
It seemed funny to me, how you were convincing Geomol that he should do things your way.
 
Since when is Red my way?
Last I checked that is DocKimbel's way.
 
8:56 AM
But I don't want to get in this conversation, I'm really more interested in the conversion matrix.
 
Well okay. So, let's get the whole table out. You have a blog, I have a blog and accept pull requests, there's CureCode (sigh)... can we make some kind of community editable commentary on each line in the matrix?
I mentioned a major eye-opener for me in working with this JavaScript stuff
And realizing that their .toString isn't in the standard.
If you have a date object or whatever and want to turn it to a string, they just punted on that.
In Chrome, FF, whatever... every JS engine turns things into strings differently.
I asked them about integer conversions... could the standard allow a toString() of 10 as 10.0000? Where in the standard was toString established?
 
Hmm, date
>> do rebol.qyz.cz/convmat.reb convmat/print now
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
logic! - true
date! - 18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
string! - "18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00"
file! - %18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
email! - 18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
url! - 18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
tag! - <18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00>
block! - [18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00]
paren! - (18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00)
path! - 18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
set-path! - 18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00:
get-path! - :18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
lit-path! - '18-Apr-2014/10:59:26+2:00
 
And I don't recall offhand but I think someone pointed me to ECMA standard element subpoint Q bullet point 143 where toString on Integer may have been defined.
While being left wide open for every other type, or whatever.
But my memory isn't the best, so maybe that didn't actually happen and I dreamed it.
 
:)
 
9:01 AM
What I might suggest for Rebol and Red is to consciously contain those "implementation-defined" points, and really put them into just a few functions.
I don't know if TO should be one of those functions. Maybe it should?
Maybe it shouldn't. But if it is, it should be so with awareness.
I know we need a way to get the "spelling" of a word. However we do it: spelling quote foo: needs to be foo
Now some might suggest that TO STRING! should do this. That if you wanted foo: you should use MOLD, but if you wanted foo then TO STRING! has your back.
 
isn't this what TO WORD! does?
 
But again, I just say this should go into the big bag of "let's get together and guru meditate on this. What is TO STRING!, really?"
Well, maybe, I'm not suggesting we throw out any answers.
 
TO STRING! is conversion to string, I guess.
 
Maybe TO STRING! TO WORD! x is the way you take any-word! and get the "spelling". I don't know. But what I do know is that it's better to have a chart/map/plan that lays it out as a philosophy vs. feeling lost in the wilderness.
I had to add a lot of get-word (:foo) into Rebmu to deal with the lit-word decay failure. That needs to get fixed.
It's now fixed in Red, we should fix it in Rebol.
As we study the TO matrix, we have to also look at Cyphre's challenge to MAKE
And come up with a good definition. What is this? How would you write a chapter in a book about it? How do you explain this?
 
I would probably start with a already written chapter and add missing pieces.
 
9:09 AM
Whatever people may think of my arbitrary-size TO BINARY! of integer proposal (that would allow any size integer), I think that if it is rejected and forcibly so, then whatever basis that drives that rejection must be woven into the rationale of what TO is
I've tried to put invariants on TO, regarding TO X TO Y TO X data and having something you might be able to say about it, but have been cut off at every turn trying to do so.
There is a repeated push, a wellspring of "TO is a matrix, TO is TO, it is, it lives, it is its own being, don't try to put rules on it"
I tend to fight this. (I will refrain from sharing my inner thoughts about that kind of thinking, but y'all know what they are.)
If the chapter in the Rebol book about TO needs to have a bunch of random mystical symbols and blue and red pills and invoke "The Matrix" and "there are no rules" then okay. That's how you like your language. Be my guest. Just own up to it.
I put forth some theories, not the best ones necessarily.
And lately I've been looking back over them.
I think you really have to look at things for what they are, and to kind of characterize TO as this refinement-less automatic conversion. And ask when and where that lack of parameterization is valuable.
The thing I mention from JavaScript that I find a bit disconcerting is the informality. The lack of a "guarantee". I think it would be nice to mark or label the primitives in Rebol/Red that do not formally guarantee (in an invariant way) what they will output given an input.
If TO is going to be one of those kind of "iffy" things, then that doubles the "iffy" that the combinatoric matrix already provided.
And I'm not going to say that TO shouldn't be an "iffy" primitive. I don't know. There's a right time and a wrong place to pin oneself down to formalism and guaranteed input/output.
 
9:38 AM
I guess the first step should be to eliminate all invalid conversion.
>> to path! now
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 18-Apr-2014/11:38:37+2:00
 
This must be an error.
 
10:31 AM
Very strange behaviour. Sounds like it should be an error.
 
 
3 hours later…
1:20 PM
@GrahamChiu I will try to look into the problems when people report, however, I might not be able to fix (if ever) them in a timely manner
 
 
3 hours later…
4:25 PM
Rep limit kept you from voting for the Red ad before? Vote for it now! Meta.SO rep is now SO rep!
2
 
4:58 PM
Take note ^-- @Respectech @rebolek or anyone formerly excluded
 
@HostileFork done
 
While we haven't arguably gotten any big "results" from the campaign, it's been an awareness builder I think. It means that for many SO visitors, once Red hits its stride and people hear of it, they will say "oh yes, I've heard of that"
Brand consciousness is more the reason companies advertise than instant purchase, I'll point out
Doritos doesn't advertise expecting you to get in the car and go buy Doritos right at that moment.
But more importantly to me, I think it's the proof of the message/iconography having enough of a hook for people to click thru. So those pieces are in place.
The reign-in-complexity message is going to be difficult to pitch in a world with things like Wolfram Language:
The key is being in full control. Open source, BSD/BSL, and a small enough amount of that source that you can read it all.
It's not necessarily about the absolute amount of what you can accomplish with the tool, rather a sort of Marxian "own the means of production".
 
5:48 PM
Wolfram Language looks interesting right enough, though aside from being closed source, seems to be dependent on the cloud—how much evaluation is done there? The '%' thing here seems a little golfscript-esque:
 
@rgchris It's probably worthwhile to do a study of the syntax, and see to what extent R&R could use messaging to communicate with a cloud server to get the data and be equivalent.
That could be a block of image! for instance.
 
@HostileFork That was my thought too.
And a block of colours is a little like a block of tuples.
 
It does point to some things Rebol does not have, such as a URL/unique ID combined with a word, which is a missing piece from Intentional Programming.
In Intentional Programming all nodes had UUIDs, but there were caches of the last name seen when that UUID was looked up.
So if something couldn't be found it became unresolved and showed that cache. If version control created a situation where more than one item with that ID existed, the system indicated the multiple resolution with a different visual indication. At the basic API level, a multiply resolved reference behaved like an unresolved reference. Only a "meta API" could tell the difference between unresolved references and multiply resolved ones.
Anyway, I've mentioned the strong belief that "real programming" is graph based.
One could ask what it would take for Rebol to interface with a world that could represent "the idea of Argentina". concept! ?
 
@HostileFork I can't say I have my head around it. What'd be the most elemental way to explain it?
 
Freebase has "Machine IDs" or MIDs. wiki.freebase.com/wiki/Machine_ID
int a;
#define B a
void foo() {
    B
}
void bar() {
    B
}
#define B a
void foo(int a) {
    B
}
void bar(int a) {
    B
}
Imagine these two textual programs fed into a graph-based system
The first would produce something along the lines of
int a.1393478347923434;
Macro B.236476376467748234 a.1393478347923434;
void foo.12376274673284() {
    B.236476376467748234
}
void bar.43874853849578934() {
    B.236476376467748234
}
The second would produce something more like
Macro B.236476376467748234(c.4857485784574345) c.4857485784574345
void foo.12376274673284(int a.83937473847356123) {
    B.236476376467748234(a.83937473847356123)
}
void bar.43874853849578934(int a.473642673462934) {
    B.236476376467748234(a.473642673462934)
}
Basically each point of declaration being uniquely identified and referred to, and shaping your code around the concept of a web of pointers. I've omitted the ID #s for Macro or void or {} but same principle.
It is still possible to put in things that are context sensitive and not bound at editing time, but these would be generally discouraged on the spectrum.
It's a complement to Rebol/Red ideas, not outright competitive.
 
6:09 PM
Then editing in the graph based system, you either manipulate the ID (changing the word) or the word (changing the word associated with the ID)?
 
@rgchris As in a normalized database, if you want to rename a variable you change in one place and it is imaged at all the reference sites. So you can change the name of an API after it ships...you can even phase it so it keeps an "oldname" for a while to help the editor binding behavior. If you are ever against a wall of ambiguity, you can just point with the mouse and say "I want to refer to that"
You cannot change IDs.
 
I don't mean change IDs, just change that word: eg. print "This" print "That" print "The Other" and change the second print to probe.
 
Yes, that would be a one node change. So it would not be disruptive to the others, in version control you would change just that. And there's no whitespace; formatting is purely projectional
 
But in this environment, probe isn't a word, it's a node with an ID and name.
 
We liked the example of one person renaming a function and moving it to another module, while someone else changed the body of the function, and being able to put those together successfully.
@GreggIrwin Hey there Gregg, welcome to the parallel universe...
 
6:18 PM
:-) Not really here. Shhhh.
 
@GreggIrwin I won't tell anyone. But there is a baby step toward COMBINE here if you have ideas. We've also been discussing why the existing FOR shouldn't be called CFOR
19 hours ago, by rgchris
Something like (sketching out): cfor: func [init [block!] test [block!] step [block!] body [block!] /local out][init: context init while bind test init bind compose/deep [set/any 'out (to paren! body) (step)] init get/any 'out]
Basically that as we look toward a range/generator dialect like for x [1 thru 10] [print x] and have to rename the old for or kill it, then a proper CFOR would do expressions.
20 hours ago, by HostileFork
cfor [x: 0 y: 0] [all [x < 10 y < 5]] [++ x ++ y] [
    print x
]
Which means that calling the current for "CFOR" seems like a bad idea because it isn't really anything to do with C's for loop
IFOR? (Integer-for-loop?)
 
I would still prefer, I think, a single dialected LOOP func (e.g., NEW-LOOP on REBOL4 world)
 
cfor [x: 0 y: 0] [all [x < 10 y < 5]] [++ x ++ y] [
    probe as-pair ++ x y
]
 
>> help loop
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
USAGE:
    LOOP count block

DESCRIPTION:
    Evaluates a block a specified number of times.
    LOOP is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:
    count -- Number of repetitions (number!)
    block -- Block to evaluate (block!)
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
USAGE:
    LOOP count block

DESCRIPTION:
    Evaluates a block a specified number of times.
    LOOP is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:
    count -- Number of repetitions (number!)
    block -- Block to evaluate (block!)
 
6:23 PM
I see no problem with LOOP continuing to work, it just doesn't have the word parameter
LOOP would do the thing a number of times without setting a word in the body
>> help repeat
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
USAGE:
    REPEAT 'word value body

DESCRIPTION:
    Evaluates a block a number of times or over a series.
    REPEAT is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:
    word -- Word to set each time (word!)
    value -- Maximum number or series to traverse (number! series! none!)
    body -- Block to evaluate each time (block!)
 
What could be argued is that REPEAT and FOR would become redundant.
I don't really like the word REPEAT very much, I think FOR is a better word.
In any case, arguing from ground zero that FOR or LOOP or REPEAT would iterate over a named variable vs. just doing something a number of times is sketchy at best.
Meaning-wise, from ground zero, FOR is perhaps the least meaningful word in the set
 
I think all my LOOP arguments and thoughts are in NEW-LOOP and the associated CC ticket.
On COMBINE, my brain is elsewhere ATM, but I would work from concrete I/O examples for the design.
 
@GreggIrwin Can you find the ticket?
 
6:29 PM
@HostileFork done!
 
@GreggIrwin My most concrete example is code in Draem although I've had the pattern elsewhere
 
Guess all my thoughts are really in my code, not the ticket. :-)
 
I started by picking on the NONE behavior of REJOIN
And then, also, the fact that I couldn't nest blocks in REJOIN but had to invoke another REJOIN
@RebolBot
stuff: ["ghi" "jkl"]
rejoin ["abc" "def" stuff "mno" "pqr"]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== "abcdefghi jklmnopqr"
 
So that's independent of the none thing. Basically the number of changes I wanted on REJOIN, including wanting to change the name, were best served by making a new thing.
I simply do not see the value in using a different logic for embedded blocks from what is used in the outer blocks. It harms composition.
 
6:33 PM
Right, my point about concrete is having clear examples to help drive the design. The devil is in the details.
 
@GreggIrwin So what are you up to these days? You say your mind is elsewhere. Working on theater? Software?
@GreggIrwin if you had any time at all to take a look at blackhighlighter.org and offer any feedback I'd appreciate it, I'm talking to people at EFF and elsewhere about it. I think it's important. (Then again, I think a lot of things are important that other people do not--so be it.)
 
Both. Busy with code but was also asked to direct Next To Normal, a rock musical about mental illness, which is...messing with my brain.
:-)
 
If you need subject matter experts, give me a call. :-/
 
And life has been messing with me, too, which happens.
:-) Will do.
 
I still have a lot of movie scripts in the "five pages done" zone.
It turns out that writing a whole movie script is actually pretty hard.
Drawing icons and arguing with people about programming languages is lots easier.
 
6:38 PM
Indeed. When I wrote my Musical script, I learned about that. If you need a subject matter expert...
 
I have about 8 scripts. And I think to make any progress I have to give up on some and just pick one.
My main one is called "The Box Factory". I think it's quite good.
 
For me, it's like programming. I need to focus, and then I go deep and do just that once it starts rolling.
 
"But is it art?

 This heart we jump-started
 which somehow began...
 planting flights for the willful
 in lieu of the land;

 using outstretched, invisible,
 clinical hands -

 whose fingers will wrap you
 wherever love traps you

 as long as they possibly
 humanly
 can."
A poem that goes with the movie.
 
Nice. If you like challenges, and I know you go, try the pantoum and sestina forms.
 
There was a Meetup called "Sit down, shut up, and write" in Austin
You went to a coffeeshop and there was a half hour of talking to people and then they closed the door to the room at the coffeeshop and no one could talk, you had to write for an hour
It was actually a fairly productive format.
@GreggIrwin I'm challenged quite enough. We do like the games here. @rgchris has been getting into the Code Golfing and even trying some Rebmu
Dr. Rebmu is now 1k+ on Code Golf SE. :-)
14
Q: aHHHH! The Beasts are HHHHere!

Dr. RebmuAs we learned from the IBM PC AT, YouTube (see video), Wikipedia (see article), and Sesame Street: The letter H is the most merciless letter of the alphabet! (Even when actually composed from two elements in Code Page 437. In fact, it's even MORE merciless that way.) Like the Aliens in, uhm.....

@Respectech Whoa, I think we went from 47 to 52 today
It's like the stock market. Only geekier.
 
7:09 PM
posted on April 18, 2014 by fork

[Comment] I didn't even realize I'd commented on this issue beFORe. But I apparently had. As per the poet Donald Rumsfeld: "I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said." CFOR, as in the idea of "Rebol's incarnation of C's FOR loop", is a good name for something like this: cfor [x: 0 y: 0] [all [x

 
 
3 hours later…
10:29 PM
Thought "haven't seen cat today". Looked literally everywhere. Under every bed, behind every couch. Spent about 45 minutes looking. No cat.
A few hours later... nonchalant cat waltzes in.
We need to RFID these things.
Still don't know where she was.
 

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