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12:01 AM
But apparently only after the split?
 
12:41 AM
meta site only? Not affecting us?
 
Ostensibly no effect except that your StackOverflow reputation and your meta reputation will unify.
With meta.stackoverflow.com, separate from meta.stackexchange.com
 
Oh well, another day spent in an airport lounge due to fog and high winds. Can't get a flight home.
 
The thing I don't like about that, is that by convention a downvote means "disagree" on meta.SO as opposed to "bad question".
More time to tinker and read I guess.
This copylight thing is a simple idea that turned out to be really complicated to implement in a web browser. I know I'm not going to "finish" it, but I have to decide at what point I think it's good enough to package up the video and call my involvement done for all practical purposes.
Given the way CSS works, once you apply a background style, it paints underneath the children. You can have transparent backgrounds that inherit what is painted, or overriding backgrounds that paint over it. But if A and B have different backgrounds, making C punch a "hole" through to show the background as it would have been in A is very difficult.
 
1:19 AM
Caterpillar Jenga:
 
 
1 hour later…
2:38 AM
@johnk how would I check to see if cron is working?
 
3:13 AM
I would try ps aux | grep crond
 
3:37 AM
posted on April 16, 2014 by qtxie

...nt and power tests TESTS: For logic!, add complement tests. TESTS: For block!, add max/min tests. TESTS: For char!, add max/min, odd?/even? tests. FEAT: Enable POWER action! in boot.red FEAT: BLOCK! comparasion now compare elements's datetypes when their types are not the same. FEAT: minor refactor for decode-utf8-hex in string.reds FIX: Wrong result when compare empty string! and b

 
4:01 AM
"Hello Brian Dickens,

We just enabled your free drone for blackhighlighter-sandbox! We want to help eliminate any billing confusion, so please read carefully..."
Aahhhrgh.
Couldn't they have done that like, before I went and researched and reinstalled things on Heroku?
I'll have to think on it. I do like their deployment model a bit better.
 
@rgchris cron error in the logs. I'll look into it
Why is tail -f and less +F for the same follow behaviour? Just to make it more difficult to remember?
Hmm cron seems okay after a restart. I don't like it when things stop running. I suppose the ec2 box is doing well with an up time of six months.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:41 AM
@RebolBot Great to see someone called billpg enter our room after @Rebolek linked to @HostileFork blog.hackensplat.com/2013/09/…
 
@iArnold What do you mean?
 
@RebolBot do print " I should encourage newcomers to introduce themselves a little more"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
 I should encourage newcomers to introduce themselves a little more
 
@RebolBot correct :-)
 
@iArnold Please continue.
 
8:07 AM
@iArnold He's apparently like Kibo
 
Now we can welcome him as well ;-)
@carlo_kokoth you have to ask some questions or answer them so we can help you gain some rep points.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:18 AM
I've wondered about FORM vs TO-STRING vs MOLD and tried to consider what reason can be used to explain these ways of "making strings out of stuff"
TO-STRING being built from TO does not take refinements. TO just doesn't have them. No switches, no options.
FORM is best known as "what PRINT does when you give it a block"... Well REFORM but that is a lousy name.
The reasoning behind TO thus far is convenience; I have type X and I want type Y, "make it so". But is this helping the language standard or impeding its ability to provide a terra firma as a standard?
 
is there a matrix of the differences?
 
Not unless we make one, and Doc has explicitly asked for some formalization in this area
 
to-string - convert binary to string
form - printable version of a word
mold - loadable version of a datatype
 
The thing I'll suggest, having looked at other "implementation dependent" stringifications, is to localize and reduce the "implementation dependence"
>> to-string 10
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== "10"
 
9:33 AM
>> form 12-dec-2012
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== "12-Dec-2012"
 
well, that's the way I have used them.
 
They all take any datatype.
 
>> form none
mold none
to string! none
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-bad-make-arg.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: cannot MAKE/TO string! from: none
** Where: to
** Near: to string! none
 
9:36 AM
Given the flexibility of Parse to "say what you mean" I wonder if putting smarts into TO beyond basically MOLD/LOAD makes sense.
Almost all types I guess.
If TO was an optionless MOLD/LOAD it would tidy some things and then FORM could be the implementation-dependent "black hole"
Of course that would chain to PRINT being implementation-dependent
But TO-STRING reads better than MOLD and could be defined to produce a canonized representation.
MOLD could exist as the "need options" version
FORM then replacing the "make an arbitrary readable string" function
 
Isn't it what FORM is doing right now?
 
Yes, but TO-STRING does it too.
Issue is one must have ways of doing UTF8 or binary encosing/decoding.
 
>> print form #{40}
print to string! #{40}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
#{40}
@
 
Right. I'm just wondering about the best definition of TO. Right now it's a weird matrix...and so we talk about mapping the matrix
 
9:45 AM
@rebolek did you fix the scroller update issue?
 
Not yet, I was blocked with some unrelated work. I guess I can look into it today.
 
No rush.
 
It may be we don't want the matrix. We might want (let's say) utf8-to-string which accepts only binary and makes a string, and string-to-utf8 which takes only a string and produces binary. There's more than one encoding anyway.
 
@rgchris I'd like to see a wiki on documenting the r3gui on rebol.info ... we could I guess just mirror a wiki from github unless you have other ideas.
 
Well, that's just string. TO does lot of other conversion, so I guess the matrix is needed.
 
9:51 AM
Having to make a PR just to update some docs is bit painful I think.
 
Just trying to think about the problem of this group of hard-to-explain and hard-to-depend-on functions. It would help to have a theory/rationale/invariant.
 
On the other hand we saw how easily bad docs can ruin a wiki making it a lot of work for others to revert changes.
 
posted on April 17, 2014 by qtxie

This change will squeeze 1KB for the generated executable file.

 
@GrahamChiu It's not that bad. Adds some formalism to the process.
 
Why is qtxie working on red and not Rebol3 ??
 
9:59 AM
>> value: "hello world!"
types: words-of lib
remove-each type types [not datatype? type]
results: make block! 2 * length? types
foreach type types [repend results [type attempt [to type value]]]
forskip results 2 [print [type "-" value]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== none
 
>> value: "hello world!"
types: words-of lib
remove-each type types [not datatype? type]
results: make block! 2 * length? types
foreach type types [repend results [type attempt [to type value]]]
forskip results 2 [print [results/1 "-" results/2]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== none
 
nevermind
>> to path! "hello world"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== hello/world
 
10:01 AM
didn't know that
 
@HostileFork and look how it has worked for the r3gui docs on github
 
10:22 AM
@GrahamChiu because he met Nenad in China?
@GrahamChiu Wiki's don't work.
 
Tell that to Jimmy Wales.
 
That is the exception to the rule..
 
@rebolek they work where there is a large enough user base to audit changes.
Wikipedia though is often in fund raising mode .. so has it really worked?
 
10:41 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 2466 so chat away!
 
@iArnold Oh, but they do.
 
10:59 AM
@earl Nope they don't.
 
It's always nice to see arguments with so much evidence ;)
 
Which camp are you in @rebolek ? ;-)
Seen plenty of wiki's started at places where I worked. None of those were kept up to date in the end and nobody ever looks at them again.
Besides using a browser is imho not a pleasant way of interacting with information.
 
@iArnold Seen plenty of Wikis going the opposite way. More anecdotes, anybody?
@iArnold We should better get rid of that annoying Web thing soon, then.
Completely back to the libraries, everybody!
@rebolek That's great fun, isn't it :)
 
11:21 AM
What's important is what works for us as a community
 
11:37 AM
@earl Just get rid of some of the limits of the browser.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:54 PM
Wow, my town is on top of Hacker News. I'm so proud :)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:49 PM
posted on April 17, 2014 by be-red

New low level print-error function Compliance with Kaj's binding

 
3:40 PM
@GrahamChiu It's your call—I could add a wiki to the QuarterMaster installation that's on there.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:27 PM
@rebolek You mean the cool 3D map of the town?!
 
@iArnold Yes, that one
 
Great helicopter view too!
 
Yes, I was pretty amazed.
 
5:53 PM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 322 so chat away!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:35 PM
@rgchris Ok, let's try it and see.
 
8:03 PM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 3048 so chat away!
 
8:43 PM
@HostileFork hi bestie
 
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 441 so chat away!
 
@BadgerGirl Ah, you've come back to learn Rebol/Red?
red> print "RedBot now available."
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
RedBot now available.
 
Yeah
 
>> print "Well, for starters [Rebol] and has PARSE" [
    thru "["
    copy bracketed to "]"
]
print bracketed
 
8:50 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    Well, for starters [Rebol] and has PARSE
*** ERROR
** Script error: bracketed has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
That is our answer to RegEx.
Um, when it works.
I seemed to have done that correctly. :-/
Oh, PRINT
not parse
>> parse "Well, for starters [Rebol] and has PARSE" [
    thru "["
    copy bracketed to "]"
]
print bracketed
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
Rebol
 
Brain not working.
In any case, if one learns a bit of parse, you can get a sense of what we call "dialecting"
 
Brain's Brian not working
 
Any one doing any project / web development on linux operating system? I just need to collect the strace of the system in which a project or a web development is being done.I wrote a script to strace multiple processes.I just need to run it on a system in which a project/web development is being done .I just need to collect the log files after running the script.Thanks
 
8:53 PM
So parse takes some input as a first parameter (a string, or other series), and then a block of rules as the second parameter. The rules are subject to the same rules as the rest of the language in terms of what is a legal token and what is not. However, the "code" is treated as "data", in this case the data for a language implemented by the PARSE function.
 
33 1 1 5
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 33 so chat away!
 
@user593908 You might try the Server Fault website for that sort of question. But be sure to be explicit about what you've tried in your question, and what the input/output you expect is.
@BadgerGirl In any case, can you roughly read what the PARSE is doing? It starts matching at the beginning of the string, then matches everything up THRU (and including) the open bracket. Then it performs a COPY operation to grab content up TO (but not including) the close bracket. Fairly straightforward.
 
The http protocol uses a write dialect. Perhaps we can expand that dialect to increase functionality of the protocol.
 
@HostileFork I just need to collect others strace data(log files).
 
@user593908 Regardless, the best way to ask Q&A on a subject is generally to post it as a question on one of the sites...lay it out... let people who are subject-matter experts look at it. That also records the answer so that others can find it. We are here to discuss two programming languages: Rebol and Red, and are happy to introduce you to them if you'd like.
>> now
 
9:10 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 17-Apr-2014/23:10:25+2:00
 
Drive-by downvote on my code golf answer!
 
@rgchris They're just jealous!
 
(I suppose there's no etiquette on commenting when downvoting in code golf?)
 
Well, it's generally encouraged to leave a comment exchange-wide but people still don't always. Having it cost them some small reputation is a bit of consolation.
I got downvoted on the "stack overflow" codegolf and went back and they'd edited the question to make not defining functions more apparent. I think that rules like that should be called out as bullet points or in the title in the first place instead of in the middle of a paragraph.
So I figured that must have been why, and fixed it, and then fixed it to be your answer. It still would have helped if the person had said "no defining functions!"
 
Yeah, noticed that—do do do do...—it's the Rebol interpreter singing to itself :)
 
9:18 PM
Otherwise you're left to figure out for yourself what they didn't like. In that case it was easy to guess.
>> do s:[do s]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/internal-stack-overflow.html
    *** ERROR
** Internal error: stack overflow
** Where: do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do d
 
Not tested: do S[doS] would be the same in Rebmu? 9 chars...
Or no spaces: S[doS]doS
 
@rgchris Yup. I was just about to say that the whether-you-like-spaces-or-not might drive the latter choice.
Tested and yes, works.
 
There is no way to kick that duplicate, sadly...
 
9:59 PM
Is slightly shorter as until is mapped as u: S[uS]uS 7 chars.
 
Ah, pretty good.
However, I've been on the fence about the U being UNTIL and not UNLESS.
Again, this is the teaching-tool aspect, and consistency. Teaching Rebmu's I E U to parallel IF EITHER UNLESS, especially if it is more consistent, is better than picking up a trick for the sake of the occasional shorter program.
Then we get UO EO IO for the only variants, and it makes more sense. I'm still thinking about paring back the ideas like IE for "if-equal", a construct that doesn't exist in Rebol and going with iE? to properly decompose it and take the hit on the letters.
So it doesn't seem that FOR should be renamed CFOR because CFOR would be expressions.
cfor [x: 0 y: 0] [all [x < 10 y < 5]] [++ x ++ y] [
    print x
]
That would be CFOR.
It may not be a terrible idea to include it. <shrug>
But the existing FOR is... just kind of crappy
For that CFOR to be useful it would have to be use-like for declarations, and not overwrite x and y's state prior to the for.
 
10:56 PM
Something like (sketching out): cfor: func [init [block!] test [block!] step [block!] body [block!] /local out][init: context init while bind test init bind compose/deep [set/any 'out (to paren! body) (step)] init get/any 'out]
 
11:35 PM
@rgchris Which raises the question... what should the current for be called, if anything?
I think something like your implementation would be deserving the name CFOR, if that were considered important.
IFOR ? (integer-based FOR?)
And: Should such things "go in the box" or is the dialected FOR and RANGE dialect generator enough?
for x [1 to 10] [print x] could be special-cased if it were native. Fast fallthrough... "is length 3? is second word TO? are start and end integers?"
It would be interesting to test the relative speed of such a native to the existing FOR, for contrast.
 
11:55 PM
Hunt the Wumpus in Rebol. I used to play that. I always imagined the Wumpus as looking like the orange beast in the Looney Tunes cartoons.
 

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