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6:00 PM
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A: dom element id equality

BoltClockThe id attribute cannot legally contain an empty string in either HTML 4 or HTML5. That said, the selectors [id] and [id=""] will still match such elements should they appear in a non-conforming document. Note that an empty id attribute is not the same as the lack of an id attribute. Setting an ...

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6:38 PM
@rlemon I am a beginner in webdesign I never took the time to get a feeling into it so using tables for the layout of forums in a category is good enough at this moment.
 
it really isn't
you're just making life harder for yourself and anyone who has to look at this code in the future.
that would be like using a rock to hammer in a nail because you don't wanna walk to the shed and grab a hammer.
 
that's not how quite a lot of people think about mybb.
My point is, at this moment creating a table layout for forum sections is just the easiest way for me in my opinion at this point.
 
yea but the internet and the community of developers understand today that it is a mistake
forums like phpbb are written many many ages ago when people didn't care
today people care. so you're doubling up your efforts by continuing to learn out dated techniques
 
and vBulletin?
 
if you're using a table to control your layout, you are doing it wrong
period.
knowing that and still doing it is one thing, saying it is "not that bad because I'm a beginner" is passing the buck.
I do lots of bad practises, but I know I'm doing them and it is usually for a trade off.
 
6:44 PM
I am using a table to control my data layout which is in this case outputting my forums correctly.
 
yea, and that isn't a semantic use of tables.
HTML elements are named like they are for reasons, they are meant to be used semantically.
and, tables for tabular data
 
so i.imgur.com/7WfKeZu.png shouldn't be a table?
however it's the best visual look most end-users like...
 
no
it is a list as far as I am concerned.
you can achieve the exact same look without tables.
 
i.imgur.com/bijKIHL.png <-- the reason why tables are used is because it's just as easy as adding peanut butter on bread.
 
yup, and trust me, after you figure it out, it is just as easy (sometimes easier) to make these layouts without tables.
 
6:49 PM
Give me a good explaination WHY it's "soo" bad as you say.
Okay if you say it can be easier it would possibly be an option as you have more knowledge into it than me...
but just saying "if you're using a table to control your layout, you're doing it wrong" where is the wrong part?
 
semantic HTML
browsers read it better, humans read it better, it is more maintainable, it is easier to understand, it is cleaner.
also tables for layouts often leads to more filler/fluff code you don't need
 
more code as in more CSS
or more code as in html
 
possibly both. but often more HTML
but that is the least of the problems.
readability and maintainability should always be a concern when writing code
browsers are fast, humans are stupid.
 
wait
how is that equal.
fast -- stupid....
anyways that to be said as off-topic.
I think saying <div class="categorie"> and setting it up with display: table
is good for readabilty
 
that is less wrong.
some people actually argue with me that is correct.
everyone however agrees using tables for layout is bad :P but display: table is gray area
phrogz.net/css/WhyTablesAreBadForLayout.html here is a read about tables for layout. -- many others exist.
 
6:55 PM
@rlemon Well that's what I am using.
I think I am in the gray area then
 
just always maintain the mindset that you want A) semantic HTML, B) readable code, and C) maintainable code -- keeping in mind the latter two points are in the respect of OTHER people, not you.
 
isn't like 1 and 2 the same thing
1) it takes longer to download
2) longer time before the user sees the page.
seems like 2x the same thing
 
no
incremental rendering vs load time
load time === how long the browser spins while you download it
rendering time === how long the layout engine takes to actually render the parsed HTML and apply the appropriate CSS
you can have short load times because you have fast internet and a crappy rendering engine that takes a long time
 
@PeeHaa what'd they flag?
 
or crappy CSS/HTML which makes rendering slow.
 
6:57 PM
tables break the text copying feature on some browsers?
 
apparently, yes. I suspect older/not-the-three-mainstream-browsers
 
Well why would I care if someone use an old browser
 
@ZachSaucier Uhhm cannot remember exactly, but it was something not flag worthy by any stretch of the meaning of flag worthy
 
it's like saying, If I am making an application, should I care about the windows-xp users?
 
Mike, just because it seems to work, it doesn't mean it's the best way. Tables "work" because they are an old way used to make it work, then along came better tools, made to make things work in a much more efficient way following the current trends and how we want things done. And by "want things done" is referring to design features we couldn't do before.
 
6:59 PM
@Gemtastic who says it's the best way/
 
You.
 
@MikeM. because lots of people use older browsers. ESPECIALLY forum users
 
Quote it.
because I didn't
 
You're arguing for it like you refuse to accept anything else
 
@Gemtastic No I do not, I am arguing to get to the end state of points where proof are given for beginners to start learning from.
 
7:00 PM
But on the other hand never mind me, I put my nose in the wrong business. I thought you were actually interested in learning things.
 
I get it, he wants to understand why tables for anything but tabular data is bad. I've given a handful of reasons for it. and learning how to produce the layout without tables is not hard enough to negate any of the reasons.
 
@rlemon What forums have you been on? 65+ ?
 
@BoltClock How do you like my proposal?
 
I am just going through the 10 points you gave me.
 
comes into took seeking help. rejects all help given
 
7:02 PM
the major two is that: it isn't readable, and it isn't maintainable. (this may not be true to you, but it is true to the majority of people because this is not how we teach people to do layouts today)
@ZachSaucier to be fair, I asked if he was using tables for layout then told him it was wrong
he didn't ask.
 
@Gemtastic I don't think someone questioning status quo is an idiot.
 
@rlemon Well, the funny part is, you only gave me reasons why it shouldn't be done like that. but me as beginner can tell you this "I instantly know how to do it right now, Thanks." but if you can smell the sarcasm well it smells bad.
 
in fact, someone who blindly accept it sometimes is
 
@rlemon Nor do I, however someone keeping in denial on purpose when pretending to want to know...
 
7:04 PM
@MikeM. you can do w/e you want. I was offering experience and prior knowledge by giving you the advice that it is bad, and some simple reasonings for it.
at the end of the day you tell yourself what you wanna write and how you wanna write it
 
that's 100% correct what you said.
but once again as a beginner I would also like to see the proof of content in that website you linked.
I think I have to rewrite that sentence.
xD
 
the proof is in the fact that this is how we write modern webpages. semantic, readable, and maintainable.
 
in the late 90's that wasn't a concern :P we were just happy to have webpages
so you see a LOT of poor practise out in the wild.
 
Yup I have to rewrite it, it was misphrased xD
 
7:07 PM
I wrote so many crappy websites with tables as layouts. that was a hard hurdle to pass.
> I DONT WANT YOUR STINKIN DIV!
 
What I meant, I in person would like to see proof as in graphs for speed and stuff, just blindly trusting 9 things on a website only writing it down but not building it up with tests, experience etc. etc....
 
hi all
I am a bit confused about facebook like button
 
@neoDev how come?
 
if I want to have a like button for each post of my website
how can I do it?
do I need an app ID for each?
 
you shouldn't :( unless you omit the count
like button from facebook (with the counter) is an iframe from a crippled service that slows down your page if you have more than one or two of them (on the page)
better bet is to have one on the landing page for each post.
or to omit the counter so it isn't an iframe.
 
7:12 PM
ideal for me could be have each post in a single page
just a page with only one post
and its specific like button
but the problem is that I don't understand how to create a specific button for each one...
:/
@rlemon how can I do it? please help
 
read their documentation
 
I am doing that.. but I am confused
I wonder if I have to create a new app id for each new post :O
(to create a like button specifically for that new post)
 
7:30 PM
I am stupid -.-
Navigation bar - looks like a table - used blocks and inline blocks
Content - looks like a table - used table and table-cell
 
8:29 PM
what is relation between position and z-index in css
 
none
position == document flow
zIndex == z index.
 
then how to manage the layout means what element should come in front of which?
also please define position @rlemon
 
no, you can look up a definition of css position online
@SajjadKhan no, managing the layout means how you manage all aspects of the layout. positioning, ordering, etc.
 
why do you guys link me this stuff. didn't I introduce you all to kind of random?
 
8:35 PM
so its mean in case of layout only position is important? then Question in my mind if we have multiple divs in a single div how we ordering them?
 
I know I've linked every project in that gallery in here or the js room
 
You wanted a crucible, dude made one out of cheap stuff
probably js room
 
The first design I made and look at and think: looks quite good
 
@Kitler that isn't a crucible, that is his entire furnace
it just doubles with a pour spout
 
9:30 PM
!!urban spanish waiter
 
@easwee spanish waiter To ejaculate on a ceramic dinner plate, and immediately smash it onto your partners face.
 
lol wtf
 
 
1 hour later…
10:35 PM
11 hours ago, by Worf
cocks, cocks everywhere
 
11:25 PM
I'm not very familiar with event bubbling in vanilla javascript. If I use something like window.addEventListener('click', function(event) { and check event.target how do I check that if it was a child that was clicked?
 
you can't and it's the same for capturing and bubbling
jsfiddle example?
 
11:43 PM
so I would have to loop using parentNode? jsfiddle coming
@Worf jsfiddle.net/spw03yyx how do I check if the button has been clicked if they click the strong span?
(I could be doing this completely wrong)
 
the question is, why are you attaching the event on window rather than on the button?
 
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