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6:00 PM
It needs some consistent way to read input, right?
 
@KendallFrey it could be a tree of all the native libraries etc
 
robot turns -102 degrees
 
@Krush limitations of Java? There are a fair number of game engines written in java, including some fairly good ones (LibGDX comes to mind).
 
@Krush And the tree contains the functions to get input?
 
@ssube I consider programming an art, which forces me to go about writing code in "wtf" ways, which Java is not meant for
@KendalFrey Nope... to process the input that is part of the "universe"
 
6:01 PM
you can treat programming as an art and still write Java
 
robot.turn(down.for(what))
 
@ssube to a very limited extent, in my experience
 
you just have to focus a little bit more on API design than language syntax
 
@ssube Lisp has a far greater extent and Haskell alike
 
user5992646
After I learn PHP what do you recommend I learn?
 
6:01 PM
@Krush I think you're just writing code wrong.
 
@Krush I don't get it. Just explain how a program would, for example, read a line from stdin.
 
@ssube possibly, but I've tried many different things in many different ways, which still gave me the same conclusion
 
new phone system (all new and fancy) -- password restriction is no special chars, <10 -- admin software doesn't run on linux (but the phone system is built on a rpi running linux) -- Admin panel is full of bugs. :(
gonna spend most of tomorrow emailing them bug reports
 
@KendallFrey The input universe would contain the line and/or lines that stdin can read
 
6:03 PM
@Krush but you can't know that ahead of time
 
You mean it contains the data before the program starts?
 
@KendallFrey and to be efficient, the entry function could be called repeatedly, and flag when it needs the input, and expect to have it in the next time it's called
@ssube can't know what?
 
@Krush you mean like an event loop?
 
user5992646
Maybe I'm lazy but I have enough motivation to not be lazy. I do not know what's happening.
 
but if the entry function is pure, it won't work to have it called multiple times
 
user5992646
6:04 PM
I'm not lazy anyway.
 
the basis of node and all winapi programs
 
@Kendall Frey the thing is, the function can be written to be able to perform a variety of changes, that would make an event loop, but call them only when necessary
 
the last few things you've been describing already exist, you're just explaining them in really weird ways
 
@KendallFrey trust me it's pure
 
I need examples to understand fully
 
user5992646
6:05 PM
Time to get back to learning. You guys have fun.
 
@KendallFrey ok ermm... say you want a calculator that seperately asks for argument, operator, argument and then presents output, pseudo code: say you have a function(input) { //if input says program just started, you return a message to ask the user to input first argument, if the input says first argument is present, return message to ask user to input operator, etc etc, if input is second argument, return argument1.operator(argument2) } kind of, you get it?
Once the entry function begins to execute, the input universe argument is stateless, until the function returns, then the returned output can be messed around with using state, by the environment via the interpreter, the entry function can then be called again.
 
@Krush that is the opposite of pure
 
Upon executing the entry function, all farther processing outside of the function is frozen
@ssube ... why do you think so?
 
@Krush I can't tell if you're a prodigy, or if you don't know what you don't know. I can't imagine wanting to invent my own language if I've never completed anything, no offense.
 
@Krush you're either describing a monad, wrapping the previous state with some input, or a very impure function.
 
6:12 PM
@Waxi none taken, and even if intended, Idgaf, but... I am obsessed with freedom, in every sense, and I often find myself lacking the freedom to express myself, in which I try to find other ways that to express myself following my previous principles... And most of the time I can't achieve this, and I give up, because I'm depressed
@ssube perhaps the second, but not sure what you mean exactly
 
@Krush do you know what a pure function is?
 
@ssube no, in his area the function dealers all cut them down to make more money
can't get the pure shit anymore
 
I know it has to contain a single argument, and return a single value, and if I'm not mixing with statelessness, unless it's part of it's definition, it cannot have side-effects... meaning that f(x) is always equal to f(y) where x == y
 
@Krush that's not quite right
@rlemon that's why you heat up your functions and see what their calling temperature is.
 
@ssube perhaps, enlighten me then
 
6:14 PM
In computer programming, a function may be considered a pure function if both of the following statements about the function hold: The function always evaluates the same result value given the same argument value(s). The function result value cannot depend on any hidden information or state that may change while program execution proceeds or between different executions of the program, nor can it depend on any external input from I/O devices (usually—see below). Evaluation of the result does not cause any semantically observable side effect or output, such as mutation of mutable objects or output...
 
Nothing but the best Colombian functions in here.
 
import dankFunction from '../modules/columbia';
 
@ssube This explanation of pure functions does not conflict with my understanding of them in any shape or form, and the idea I have for my programming language involves having a 100% pure entry function
 
@Krush you had a lot of extra criteria
they can have multiple inputs, most functions have a single output (in most languages)
 
Oh dear sweet jesus
@KendallFrey .
 
6:17 PM
@ssube yeah I mean... in mathematics f(x) = y, not y, z, v, w, sooo
 
one vs. many inputs/outputs is pure semantics once you have first class tuples/arrays/hashes
 
... :O
 
@SterlingArcher fantastic
 
@ssube in the language idea that I have, the entry function can have multiple inputs, and return multiple outputs, if the interpreter expects this and will not error this behavior.
@KendallFrey you have any clue what I meant by that calculator example?
 
6:19 PM
nope
sounds kinda like a game loop
 
@JanDvorak it's not very useful without destructuring, though
 
@KendallFrey there's... there's more...
 
Yeah I'm pretty hard to understand :D, and I know it's my fault this is so :D, and I know I might be doing many things wrong and understanding many things wrong, etc etc, but this is why I'm depressed, so yay... Despite this, I'm just going to say, the language works with pure functions, immutable constants, no monads, and can yield practical results! :)
or programs or whatever
 
@Krush that doesn't make a difference. Like wikipedia said, input and output counts are not part of whether a function is pure.
 
@ssube yeah ok? and?
@ssube I'm saying that the idea involves the entry function being pure, that's all
 
6:21 PM
the program you're describing will be able to do one thing based on information collected before the program starts
 
@ssube whether it has multiple arguments and/or outputs depends on how the interpreter treats it
@ssube yes!
 
which is... already a thing you can do in almost every language
 
@ssube yes!
 
especially haskell, although it violates the "do one thing" criteria
 
By doing nothing?
 
6:23 PM
@ssube The core principle of my language is that, once the entry function beings executing, it is isolated from the environment, completely...
@ssube begins*
 
@JanDvorak precisely
@Krush ok? I'm still unclear on how that's special.
 
@ssube but other principles make it what it is
@ssube It's restricted to the "do one stateless thing", but there are other features that make it nice for me to use, and perhaps other people
 
@Krush Your ego is clouding your perspective and understanding. You're not going to learn anything if you think you know it all or you only want to hear confirmation of what you believe to be true. What's the point of making a language when you haven't exhausted your options in existing languages? I don't get that. Maybe you have, but it doesn't seem like it. It just seems like you got frustrated with an experience and figured you could do it better if only you used your own made up language.
 
I just didn't like the idea behind monads, even though the language idea I have in mind can emulate them, there's no special type for it or anything
 
so you want a language that is sandboxed to the point of lacking IO?
 
6:26 PM
@Krush So like I said, either you're a genius in the making, or naive...I can't tell at all because I don't have enough understanding.
 
@Krush what you're describing is mostly a monad
 
@Krush Why don't you like monads? They're super useful for so many different things.
 
@Kendall Frey they're a workaround for state, in my eyes
 
they have nothing to do with state
 
I know
 
6:27 PM
They're about composability
 
From what I've been told and how I understood that, monads are something like information on definitions, if you know what I mean by that
 
@Krush nope, those words aren't allowed to go together
monads are function composition
 
@Waxi I do not think I know it all, and I get frustrated with recurring experiences with a similar cause
 
it might be easier to point you to the existing concepts if you read up on the technical terms a little
 
except that function composition is something else, specifically (.)
 
6:29 PM
some of the words you're using to describe existing things aren't quite correct
 
I am very flexible with what I mean by the words I use, but okay...
 
@Krush which is not ok in computer science
many of the words have very specific meanings
 
I want to use a then loop to filter all javas in a script
 
like a "pure function"
 
Perhaps too flexible, hence my desire for a programming language that is very flexible :D
 
6:31 PM
@Krush But what do they all have in common? You. So unless you've explored every possible option with your tools, I think the problem might be with your own ability and not what you're using.
 
@Krush yeah, that's a problem
we can't understand what you're asking because you're making up terms
 
@Waxi more than me
 
use the existing terms and we can point you in the right direction
 
Is there a way to encrypt a radio frequency signal so that it isn't effected by signal jammers?
Just curious
RF seems incredibly easy to distort
 
@SterlingArcher don't think so. Jammers work by putting out noise on the same frequency with more power.
 
6:33 PM
I wonder if you could add a counter measure to instantly change frequencies or overpower the jammer
like adaptive RF
 
Well, I like to be very exact, and always try to be, but sometimes I just can't explain what I mean very exactly, I often end up using meanings of terms that are inappropriate for the context that they're used in... However, the words are abstract, and context is implicit, so I allow myself to be very flexible in what I mean by what I say... It often ends up confusing people, but I don't know any other way to explain what I mean, unless I quit the conversation and go revise the terms.
 
you can always overpower the jammer, if you have enough power or you're closer and the signal degrades right
changing frequencies doesn't always help, because jamming on a wide spectrum is fairly trivial
also, everything I know about RF jamming is from movie and video games :D
@Krush then look em up
get a programming thesaurus
 
To be honest, my understanding of computer science is insanely scattered, bits and pieces flying all over the place... so I would kind of have to just learn all of computer science from its foundations, which would take, how many years? sighs
 
It sounds like jamming a signal is a lot easier than trying to protect from a jamming
inb4 Kendall
 
6:36 PM
@Krush not at all. Just learn the correct terms for the basic concepts.
@SterlingArcher always
 
Do you know if there are patented methods of RF jamming protection?
 
once you're in an uncontrolled, lossy medium, degrading the signal is easy
 
I want to look into this more
 
@SterlingArcher my company doesn't own a single radio of any kind, so no
 
I gotta find this link I used to have, it was some underground shit that had a bunch of spy like tutorials, things like home-made jammers, surveillance camera blockers, etc.
 
@ssube no I would have to learn computer science... It's a major factor in communication that involves the subject, and those basic terms may have definitions that involve other basic terms, that involve other basic terms, that follow certain principles, all of which I have a wobbly understanding of...
 
so many books to choose from
Programming dictionaries galore
Pick one up
 
@Krush then learn the basics. It doesn't take very long.
 
@ndugger you mean pick a few K of them and spend a few decades of my life comprehending them so I am qualified enough to know what I'm talking about, literally 100%?
 
6:40 PM
Once you have a surface understanding of the terminology, you can communicate your questions more effectively, we can give you better answers, you will know which topics to research further, and profit.
 
Uh, no, pick one and skim through it
Life isn't a constant battle
 
TL;DR - there are no shortcuts
 
@ssube I don't know a lot, and not a chunk, but bits and pieces, which the best way to fill is through conversations of the subject with other people, who can give personalized support, unlike books etc.
 
@Krush You can't know literally all programming lanugages. I'm currently testing one on my local machine
 
@Jan Dvorak I don't need to, and I don't want to, and never did
 
6:42 PM
@Krush right now, the way you're phrasing your questions is very confusing.
Even to Kendall, who is Canadian.
and Canadians, as we all know, are great at implying meaning from context, eh?
 
@ssube unless you refer to where I actually used "?", I didn't ask anything
 
lol this guy
 
git gud
 
@Krush that was a joke. A joke aboot Canadians. The point stands, though: you need to learn some of the terminology.
 
@ssube I need to learn far more than some terminology regarding the specific subject we were discussing earlier
 
6:46 PM
then go do so
 
@Krush ok. Then go learn. Pick up a few good books on the fundamentals.
Ask your question again with a better understanding and more precise terms tomorrow.
 
@Krush Dude you need to calm your ass and be more humble. Pretend you know nothing and start at the beginning so you can fill in the gaps in your understanding. I'm sorry you don't do reading material, but you're gonna have to suck it up. No amount of people in the world is gonna be able to transfer their knowledge to you.
 
git: 'gud' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.

Did you mean this?
gui
 
@Waxi you don't need to be a dick about it, m8
 
@Waxi I have found that the gaps that I have would take many years to fill
@Waxi I'm depressed and lack the motivation to do so...
 
6:47 PM
@Krush That comes back to you not knowing what you don't know. You can't assume it's going to take years, especially when you don't want to try lol.
 
@Krush you've gotta start somewhere
 
@Waxi I have tried, like many things, and after multiple retries, I do not wish to re-try
 
@ssube He's got a tough shell...takes a little extra oomph to break through.
 
@ssube I'm gonna as part of getting my qualifications for computer science
@ssube but not for any other reason
 
@Krush How old are you?
 
6:49 PM
@Waxi ohhh Waxi you're talking about a shell of packed neutrons at 0 kelvin.
@Waxi 15... and now I await bombardment
 
Why are you programming if you're not wanting to put in the years of effort to reach mediocrity like we all did?
I've been pro for 3 years now and I still don't know shit
Go with the flow, hoe
 
can confirm
 
lol
 
@Sterling 3 years is not a flow, I improvise
 
sterlink is mediocre and hoes do flow
 
6:50 PM
@SterlingArcher really? it's that brown goop that comes out of your bum. that's pretty fundamental knowledge.
 
Trust me, tears have flown
@KendallFrey shutup
 
.. so, what code could look like then?.. — Vovan_Super 3 mins ago
really?
 
@Waxi my age probably explained a multitude of confusions you had about me didn't it? And likely not in the most positive of ways.
 
@SterlingArcher oh my
 
I snorted
 
6:51 PM
@Krush nah. I started small and had a basic understanding of csci by your age.
 
Curly fries?
 
@Krush You just have high expectations of yourself, which is fine, but you have to be realistic about it. You can't just download a lifetime of knowledge after talking to people, you actually have to work for it.
 
If you start in the right place (books help), you'll make progress pretty quickly.
bear in mind that many of us have, at this point, been doing this for 5-10 years
 
@Waxi
 
so there's a lot of detail we understand that seems weird at the beginning
 
6:53 PM
heh, lodash type definitions are more than 20k lines
 
I'm almost 30, started way later than I would have liked, didn't go to school, but I still bust my ass to learn as much as I can. I've been listening to computer science lectures from Stanford/MIT while I work. I can't just give up because I'm frustrated with my progress. You gotta brute force your education bruh.
 
hey, anyone tell me why my jquery isn't working? I need it to limit the selection of checkboxes...jsfiddle.net/lemusthelroy/homy33kw/3
 
It's either the case that what I am saying unintentionally conveys the explicit understanding that I think that I can download a lifetime of knowledge after talking to people or what I am talking about and the way I think is the complete opposite to your assumptions. Because repeatedly I read you say things that I totally agree with, but you assume that I think otherwise... And it's really getting to me, but whatever :S
 
oh dear
 
Do what I do and bullshit your way into a space job
I'm a very good interviewer :D
 
6:55 PM
working in an office for the first time, today we need to turn off the internet soon to fix problems the remote people are having
ironic
 
KISS, both in your work and how you talk, that would help I think.
 
@Krush work on your phrasing, then
 
I sacrifice simplicity to convey an exact idea, which always, ALWAYS, conflicts with people's assumptions of what is implicitly conveyed by what I say.
 
I don't even understand that sentence, you talk too cryptic. You don't have to impress anyone in here with how much of an intellectual you are. Just keep it real and honest.
 
6:57 PM
cc @KendallFrey @rlemon
 
And I do not know any way of avoiding these assumptions other than expecting them in advance and denying them after I say something.
 
@Krush you aren't sacrificing simplicity or conveying exact ideas.
 
in KSP that wouldn't give you 100% coverage
for surface scanning
 
In engineering/science subjects, you gotta use the right terms.
 
6:58 PM
Last time I used a map like that it was to predict when the ISS will be visible
 
^ doing similar
 
do you ever spot the station? you should
 
That doesn't look like a flat earth projection, son I am disappoint.
 
@Waxi kill me now... I cannot emphasize enough that I am not trying to be cryptic or impress anyone here, again you misunderstand.
 
Fun fact, only one of these satellites tracks over the south pole, and it's vietnamise
Plus I took out the huge constellation formations because I'm adding sensor views soon
 
6:59 PM
does it also track over the north pole?
 

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