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5:00 PM
presidents get three initials
the current president is BHO
 
user5992646
@SterlingArcher John Kenndey the US president who unfortunately didn't live his full age.
 
@Todo Pertin Oh, well many people get into programming and do something useful as they can learn to program basics is through programming scripts where basic scripting is used in games, mods and other areas.
 
You are the first person in the entire world to not know him by JFK
 
@TodoPertin He sure did live his full age
 
omg kendall
too soon
 
5:01 PM
what, he did
 
everybody lives until they die
that's their full age
 
If they die
 
user5992646
@KendallFrey no he did not. some bad people prevented him from doing so.
 
@SterlingArcher yeah, you want to get on somebody for "too soon," talk to JFK
 
@TodoPertin au contraire
 
user5992646
5:01 PM
!!defin au contraire
 
@TodoPertin That didn't make much sense. Maybe you meant: define, nein
 
@ssube Your mom's always harping about "too soon"
 
..
!!nein
 
oh my god
 
5:02 PM
@TodoPertin nah, if he had lived much longer the genepool of Polynesia would have been irreparably altered.
 
user5992646
@ton.yeung killing others is not good. so they are bad.
 
!!info nein
 
@SterlingArcher Command nein, created by rlemon on Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:26:41 GMT
 
god dammit @rlemon
 
user5992646
@ssube sorry I do not understand.
 
user5992646
5:03 PM
@ton.yeung soldiers are good because they kill bad people.
 
Kill
 
ho boy
 
Guys this is probably a dumb question, but is there a good way to make an if statement within a jsx template without an else? Do you just inline an anonymous function?
 
@TodoPertin you're not going to get very far in this convo with that simplistic an opinion
 
user5992646
@ton.yeung lol that sounds cool. I will note it down.
 
user5992646
5:04 PM
@ssube what? i do not understand.
 
@TodoPertin you're being awfully broad for a rather complex subject.
 
@TodoPertin there's a contradiction there
 
@Madara @ton.yeung Is this still really hard for you to read:
this.inherit = (meta) => this.metas.push(meta);
 
user5992646
I mean I did not know I was havig an opinion.
 
oopsiedaisy
 
user5992646
5:05 PM
@ssube ok my friend. :)
 
If soldiers are good, and soldiers kill bad people, then what is a soldier who was killed by another soldier?
 
Javascript has too many reserved words and native classes, libraries etc
 
@Krush yes, I prefer this.inherit = this.metas.push;
too bad JS fucks that up
 
user5992646
that depends on the soldier that was killed. if he was good his killer is bad, or if he was bad his killer soldier is good.
 
@Krush not enough native libraries
@TodoPertin now it's a self-referencing definition
 
5:07 PM
@Kendall Frey I just type "delete" and it's highlighted... and so many other words, just dafuq
 
user5992646
@KendallFrey lol I do not understand self-referencing definition.
 
@Krush JS has a fairly short list of reserved words, compared to most languages.
It does have a surprising number of reserved words that are unused, though.
 
What do you guys do when you need to create many similar elements based on received data? I have to make about 12 elements that look like this, and then some JS will dynamically change their content over time.

<div class="investment box">
<div class="box box-title investment-title">Staffing</div>
<div class="box investment-description"></div>
<div class="investment-footer">
<div class="investment-price"></div>
<div class="button button-cancel"></div>
<div class="button button-buy">Buy</div>
</div>
 
@Todo Pertin @Kendall Frey if you guys ever watched the Hateful Eight they explain an interesting idea for justice, and what's the difference between killing someone as revenge rather than a lawfully official execution
 
Fun fact: It's nearly impossible to prove that traditional "good" is in some way "better" than traditional "evil"
 
user5992646
5:09 PM
@Krush is that on Netflix? It's been so long since I have watched a good movie. I was learning programming all the time.
 
The only distinction I could find is that "good" is conducive to survival as a species, where "evil" isn't.
 
@Todo Pertin maybe... I pirate soooo...
@Todo Pertin it's a comedy though, kind of
 
user5992646
@Krush ok.
 
user5992646
@KendallFrey lol sorry English too hard. that line.
 
user5992646
If any of you didn't know I'm not native English speaker. so. :)
 
user5992646
5:11 PM
But I really really like English.
 
user5992646
so I'm learning.
 
user5992646
The language. The people I only know a few.
 
My cat always annoys me by wanting to go in/out in/out in/out of my room, so I threw my chair when she was standing next to the door and quickly dashed to her, she was so scared but then I started petting her until she got annoyed and tried to scratch me but I continued then kicked her out the room :S, I'm evil? :|
 
user5992646
@Krush no you are not necessarily. Not all things have to be evil or good.
 
@Kendall Frey since you're so good at shortening definitions, what about this.inherit = (metas) => this.metas.concat(metas);
 
user5992646
5:13 PM
You could kick or punch me but I will not say you are evil.
 
user5992646
if I allow you.
 
Lel I was joking about being evil but nvm
 
user5992646
sorry, even if I don't
 
@Krush same thing as before
 
Oh yeah... damn...
 
5:14 PM
don't actually do that
 
Whaaaii
 
user5992646
oh could one of you two answer this problem of mine?
 
@Krush Because JS is a terrible language and it probably won't work.
 
@Kendall Frey I tried and it says "undefined" when I try access first element that I use .inherit on :|
 
user5992646
I'm stuck on a programming example that has files and files of code. I know what each line does but not understand how each file and different lines of code come together to complete the task. should I skip it or move on to next lesson?
 
5:16 PM
@TodoPertin Try to understand larger and larger chunks of it, until you understand what the whole thing does
 
Why is the string "undefined" when written to document:
function object()
{
	this.metas = [];
	this.inherit = this.metas.concat;
};

function main()
{
	a = new object();
	a.inherit("Hello");
	document.write(a.metas[0]);
};
 
For example, try figuring out what each function does
 
user5992646
because I want to learn the next chapter but this single problem is wasting my time and holding me back.
 
@Krush Because JS is a terrible language. Just change it back to what you had before.
 
user5992646
@KendallFrey lol you make it sound easy which makes me want to try to understand it again but I don't know if I will not be frustrated again.
 
5:17 PM
@Kendall Frey but... why this not work? what does JS do that makes it not work...
@Kendall Frey I changed it back it still not work
:D
 
it doesn't remember that this.metas should be bound to the concat function, so it calls concat but doesn't give it this.metas, so it's trying to concat to the wrong thing
 
user5992646
@KendallFrey thank you sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo‌​ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo‌​ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo‌​ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo‌​ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. If only you knew what that meant to me. God bless you.
 
@Kendall Frey If I understood you correctly, you saying I should this.metas = this.metas.concat(metas)?
 
user5992646
what advice you gave.
 
5:19 PM
no
15 mins ago, by Krush
this.inherit = (meta) => this.metas.push(meta);
 
@Krush don't use document.write()
 
@Kendall Frey but push cannot concatenate an array that meta is a potential argument
 
huh?
 
@Sterling I'm just testing, so I don't really gaf but why?
 
user5992646
thank you Kendall Frey for making me want to work hard and be productive tonight.
 
5:21 PM
@SterlingArcher There are lots more things wrong :P
 
@Kendall Frey the argument for "object.inherit(argument)" can be an element or an array, if an element it is pushed, if an array it is concatenated ontop of object.metas, and I've read that concat() can accept an element or array and both will just be, appended
@Kendall Frey I tried this.metas = this.metas.concat(metas) and it worked...
 
yeah concat doesn't change the original array
 
@Kendall Frey so can this be made shorter? this.inherit = (metas) => this.metas = this.metas.concat(metas);
Because it's ugly
 
you can remove the first () and all the whitespace
won't make it less ugly
 
the first what?
 
5:24 PM
()
 
You mean = (metas) => the (metas)?
 
metas not (metas)
 
!!google why is document.write bad
 
Brainmelt, whaat?
 
anyone interested in a code bounty of 50 points (jQuery) :D stackoverflow.com/questions/37056290/…
 
5:25 PM
@Scott Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
@Krush just read the documentation on lambdas
you don't need the ()
 
@Kendall Frey oooooooooooooohhh crap, ok ok
 
also, lol because you've been pinging me wrong the whole time
 
What?
Did I mispell?
 
kinda
 
5:27 PM
lol
 
there's a space in there
 
Where? :O
 
there shouldn't be
 
Oh you not supposed to put space?
Ahhh...
@KendallFrey now it's more annoying right?
 
protip: don't ping by user, use the reply-to button on the right side of the message you're replying to
@Krush less annoying, since it highlights my whole name
 
5:29 PM
@KendallFrey aww but the sound :S
@KendallFrey Actually, my function object() accepts an argument metas, which it concats, maybe I could design this function to be able to recursively inherit other objects without needing a method "inherit"?
 
maybe
 
muy interesante
Does javascript, or any language for the matter, have a short-hand assignment expression like you can have += for functions? Like instead of object = object.method("Hello") you could do object.method()="Hello"? Pretty ugly but something alike?
 
interesting idea. let me shoot some holes in it.
:P
 
Huh?
 
var childId = $(this).attr("id")+1; This isn't going to magically turn line1 into line2, it's going to make line11Sterling Archer 1 min ago
Jesus
 
5:34 PM
what would a.b.c()="Foo" do?
you rang?
 
@KendallFrey a.b = a.b.c("Foo")
@KendallFrey orrr?
 
#HailSatan
 
ohh
#HeilSatan
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nice!
 
"satans pretty cool!"
 
5:37 PM
@Kendall Frey alternatives: object.method=(arg1, arg2...), object=.method(arg1, arg2...), object=somethingLikeThisOrSelf.method(arg1, arg2...)...
 
I like the =.
 
Didn't know =. was a thing
 
there are a few languages with .= in them, usually for concatenation
 
I lets you do foo=.bar("butts").baz("lol")
 
@Madara it's not I think, I wish it was
 
user5992646
5:38 PM
at least PHP has
 
@MadaraUchiha It isn't, is it?
 
user5992646
Let me tell you
 
user5992646
$output="something";
 
could anyone tell me, i want match string that should contains # (#string). but it's not match
tired with /^#+$/
 
user5992646
5:39 PM
$output.="some other thing";
 
@SterlingArcher ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold
 
WHATEVER DUDE
 
@Kendall Frey I have similar ideas, hence I want to make my own language, and I had a paranoia of leaking them, :D
 
@SterlingArcher Programmer's wife calls him and says "While you're out, get some eggs", he never came home.
 
no really, that one is super old
 
user5992646
5:39 PM
print $output; //prints something+some other thing = everything.
 
@Krush I've got ideas of my own
 
@Krush then make a language
it's easy
 
@KendallFrey enlighten me :D
 
I really want dimensionality in a language
 
@TodoPertin why are you talking about PHP concatenation which literally everybody in this room knows?
 
5:40 PM
@ssube meh... it's ugly to do so :D
 
@MadaraUchiha oh snap
 
@Krush then don't make a language
 
@ssube that's what I'm doing, but regretting it :D
 
47 secs ago, by ssube
@Krush then make a language
 
user5992646
I was told it's important to pretend explaining to others because it aids learning programming.
 
5:41 PM
@ssube @ssube meh... it's ugly to do so :D
 
@Krush program in Lisp
 
Oops
 
@TodoPertin yes
 
:D
 
Where you can use the language to write your own language that solves whatever problem you're having.
 
5:42 PM
@Madara Lisp looks ugly, :S :D
 
If you can explain something, you can understand it. Sometimes you will come to understand it by explaining it.
 
@MadaraUchiha you can do that in Ruby or Groovy or plenty of other ridiculous languages too
 
user5992646
@MadaraUchiha wow thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!really really really!!!!!
 
@Krush It's a matter of preference, we all grew up with C like languages
 
@MadaraUchiha Or use Haskell, where you can do the same thing but without the parentheses
 
5:42 PM
DSLs and the like are commonly found in languages never meant for production
 
user5992646
that will improve me now.
 
@KendallFrey Yeah, and without anyone to run your code too
@ssube Oh, I'm not talking about developing a DSL
You do that all the time
 
Anyone else in spreadsheet hell? It's the heart and soul of this company I'm at.
 
In Lisp you actually extend the language itself.
 
user5992646
@MadaraUchiha were you saying that to somebody else and not me?
 
5:43 PM
I would like to create a language that implements layers of abstraction unlike those of other languages, which limit what the developer can express, by enabling the programmer to write something that does not work or works opposite to these layers...
 
The entire OO concept in Lisp was originally an external library.
 
@MadaraUchiha legit question: how is that not a DSL?
 
@ssube Because it's not domain specific
 
@Madara that sounds amazing, but I wish the syntax weren't ugly... :D, such a poor excuse lol
 
Extending the language by introducing constructs at run/compile-time that follow existing syntax seems like the heart of most DSLs.
 
5:44 PM
43 secs ago, by Madara Uchiha
The entire OO concept in Lisp was originally an external library.
 
Well Lisp is the exception then
:D
 
That's not domain specific, no matter how you look at it.
 
@Waxi heh, just be glad you have such a small amount of data that you can use spreadsheets
@MadaraUchiha yes, and neither are many DSLs nowadays :\
 
@Madara can you extend every native data type in Lisp?
 
user5992646
I just wanted to say that it sounds nice to me.
 
5:45 PM
@Madara random question, if you can, mind blown
 
@Krush Fairly sure you can, but I'm a Lisp beginner.
@FlorianMargaine knows more than me
 
Omfg...
What...
Srsly?
 
And the folks in ##lisp @ freenode know a lot better than both of us
 
@ssube pegjs?
 
user5992646
5:46 PM
what? I do not understand.
 
@TodoPertin @Krush gigamonkeys.com/book Enjoy
 
user5992646
you probably pinged me by mistake.
 
do you understand links?
 
Extending, all primitive and native data types... my brain is a marshmallow in hot chocolate
 
user5992646
but I want to say I do not mind pinging. you guys are my idol
 
user5992646
5:46 PM
you pinging me.
 
click the damn link
 
@ssube I did, I don't know what the fk that is
 
pegjs is a PEG parser-builder written in JS
 
@Krush You can in any language
 
it lets you write languages and implement them using JS
and PEG grammars
 
5:47 PM
@KendallFrey last time I checked extending an array in Java was Taboo and everyone was going to burn you for thinking of doing anything as stupid as that
 
user5992646
pegjs, peg, js. I know nothing of them. so I don't know how I will feel.
 
@ssube waaaaaat
 
depends on your definition of extend
 
@TodoPertin then read up on them?
 
@Krush Yeah well, Java tabooed functions too.
 
5:48 PM
@ssube is it like... an interpreter-creation language or smnthn?
 
In computer science, a parsing expression grammar, or PEG, is a type of analytic formal grammar, i.e. it describes a formal language in terms of a set of rules for recognizing strings in the language. The formalism was introduced by Bryan Ford in 2004 and is closely related to the family of top-down parsing languages introduced in the early 1970s. Syntactically, PEGs also look similar to context-free grammars (CFGs), but they have a different interpretation: the choice operator selects the first match in PEG, while it is ambiguous in CFG. This is closer to how string recognition tends to be done...
 
In Haskell, you can extend every data type as if you were the author of that type
 
@Kendall Frey like "class Dafuq extends FTW"
 
@Krush PEG is for creating new grammars. pegjs allows you to write the output rules in JS.
 
user5992646
@ssube thank you friend.
 
5:48 PM
Yeah Haskell is awesome, apart from it's uglyness
Lisp vs Haskell, GO!
 
In every language you extend data types in the same way, but it may stop being considered extending.
@Krush I find Haskell beautiful
 
@KendallFrey I find you beautiful <3
 
this PEG example will parse JSON objects: gist.github.com/ssube/6237617f5807bf238a9a
 
Compared to F#, which I used a bit beforehand
 
took maybe 15 minutes to write
 
user5992646
5:49 PM
so it is a calculator.
 
user5992646
cool!
 
you can write a calculator
or you can write Javascript
 
The problem with all those languages is lack of tooling
No IDEs, very little libraries, often no package manager
 
I love functional programming, I had this idea for a language, where the entry function is the sum of the program, where files are either containers of said function or fragments of it which can easily be embedded to the main function... And this function does not use monads, rather a single parameter of "input" is passed into the entry function, which is the input universe, and the output of the function can contain what is to be stored, and the results given to the environment
 
user5992646
I really wish I already knew as much as all of you. programming is so much fun if you know how to program.
 
user5992646
5:51 PM
a fun that I want to have too.
 
@MadaraUchiha if you and Kendall start using them, they'll have no shortage of tools. :D
 
The function is to be called repeatedly, which will have it result in different outputs as the state of the environment changes, but the entry function itself, remains pure for eternity
 
user5992646
you guys have so much fun with programming. i will have to wait for maybe a year atleast to have a little fun.
 
@Krush then make it
 
@Todo Pertin go buy Minecraft, download a modpack and join a server, then you will start getting loads a motivation to make scripts for a mod called ComputerCraft, to do something useful, this should motivate you to learn programming fully
@ssube that's long :D
 
5:52 PM
@Krush You lost me at "does not use monads"
 
seriously, between pegjs and antlr, you can write pretty much any language you want
 
monads are wonderful
monads aren't for side effects, input, and output
the IO monad specifically is
 
user5992646
@Krush really? but I'm already motivated but its too hard.
 
@Kendall Frey it doesn't
 
monads in general are far more useful than that
 
5:53 PM
@Todo Pertin it's not... you're just not motivated enough to find a means by which to learn better
 
@Krush doesn't what? reply-to the message, not the user
 
user5992646
@Krush but I will buy Minecraft now for sure if it's going to be of any help.
 
@TodoPertin Some of these guys in here inspire with the knowledge they have, just keep at it, it will come to you over time.
 
user5992646
@Waxi ok. thank you friend.
 
@Kendall Frey the language, morally and by design, does not include anything relevant to state, only how the interpreter uses it with the environment, is where state is introduced, but you can forget state completely, which monads hint at, as they are instructions for creating state.
 
5:54 PM
@Krush oh, you mean Haskell
 
@ssube what?
 
@Krush you're talking about the language Haskell
 
@ssube no I have an idea for a language, similar to Haskell, but different in some principles
 
@Krush then why not implement it?
 
@ssube because it's long and I'm depressed and lack motivation etc
 
5:55 PM
@TodoPertin I feel disappointed and overwhelmed on a daily basis that I'm not at the level I want to be, but it can't happen over night. You just have to expose yourself to as much as you can as often as you can and eventually it will fall into place. It's incredible having a resource like SO and this chat though, not to be taken for granted.
 
@taco I wasn't even coding at 20
 
user5992646
should I buy minecraft for ps4 console or pc? or ios?
 
@TodoPertin PC :D
 
What's the difference between an "input universe" and a set of functions for reading input?
 
@rlemon cc ^
 
5:55 PM
@TodoPertin btw this is a suggestion, do whatever
 
@SterlingArcher rlemon is afk: stupid 4 hour meeting I can't stress enough is pointless
 
my condolences brah
 
user5992646
@Waxi ok. thank you. :)
 
@KendallFrey the set of functions are implicitly existent, the input universe, is one object, that is supposed to contain whatever the fk you want the program to use
 
@TodoPertin minecraft is fun, but it won't teach you much
 
5:56 PM
@ssube not Minecraft specifically, it's mod ComputerCraft, it motivated me to learn Lua, which drove me to learn programming etc
 
@Krush doesn't it need separate functions for reading from stdin, reading from file, reading from network, etc.?
 
user5992646
@ssube even a little help while havign fun is important for me so.
 
I started programming with mIRC bots
 
@Krush What project are you most proud of?
 
Ahhh, good times.
 
5:57 PM
@KendallFrey the objects can be divided into many parts, which can contain whatever, the hell, you want
@Waxi that I completed? or that I attempted?
 
I started with DarkBASIC and making little games
 
user5992646
I do not understand Sterling ARcher's image but nice.
 
How does one use said object to acquire input though?
 
started with mIRC bots as well
 
user5992646
(y)
 
5:57 PM
@Krush Either or.
 
@KendallFrey The object contains the input, the object is an argument passed in by the interpreter from the environment, the function that the object is an argument for is, THE ENTRY FUNCTION
 
In what format does the object contain the input?
 
computercraft and opencomputers in minecraft could be a pretty fun entry into it too though
 
@Waxi nothing completed, in my life, that is programming, I did some Scratch.mit.edu but lol, attempted many things, and most proud of my Java game engine programming, which I just cannot continue due the limitations of Java
 
that or programmable blocks in space engineers
 
5:59 PM
@KendallFrey any...
@KendallFrey depends on the interpreter
 
My first programming experience non PHP was Java with Mindstorm lego robots
 
@Krush Well, give me an example then
 
@KendallFrey the language is really abstract in the sense that it can be used in many ways
 
Worst calibration I've ever seen. robot.turn(-90); //degrees
 

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