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12:02 PM
oh no .. please save the gay phenomenon is over .. not again
 
Language design is terrifying
@AwalGarg seriously?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah just asking :(
 
@AwalGarg it's significantly faster than native promises, easier to debug, has a much nicer API and better hooks.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum How come native promises aren't faster? They are.. native after all, no?
 
@AwalGarg so what?
Native isn't faster
 
12:06 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum so the engine can optimize them better
 
I can go into an hour long lecture mode about promisification, closure allocation, v8 slots and so on but honestly I don't really have an hour for that - you're welcome to benchmark bb and native promises or search in the issue tracker or petka's comments it's all there somewhere
 
oh so it is v8 specific?
 
@AwalGarg In theory, yes, you're absolutely right. But if the native implementation isn't actually native, or poorly implemented, a good JIT'ed JS implementation version can and will be faster.
 
@FlorianMargaine uhh, brilliant. Never thought about it that way.
@RoelvanUden so it is possible in future that native promises will be faster than bluebird ones right?
 
12:20 PM
can I easily use bluebird in babel?
 
@AwalGarg Sure, that is possible.
 
@Mosho don't use it for our client-side code.
Bluebird is love and life, but bluebird is big.
 
= love is big, life is big
 
@AwalGarg But, Bluebird is optimized really well. If the native implementation doesn't get the same amount of love, it won't even come close.
 
Extension or addon or server or anything like that => use bluebird
Generic client side code => probably not
 
12:23 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, I noticed
 
@RoelvanUden gotcha
 
So, I found this. A good implementation of Promises/A+/
 
Just me or you all had to hard reload to get to the chat ?
@uselesschien and you ignored bluebird ?
 
Not me
 
12:30 PM
@uselesschien it's the one used by Ember iirc
 
@Abhishrek No, I haven't.
@FlorianMargaine Oh
 
@uselesschien just saying bluebird is awesometastic.
the favicon spins forever.
 
> A minimal bluebird browser build is ≈38.92KB minified*, 11.65KB gzipped and has no external dependencies
 
> A switch-case statement can currently have up to 128 case-clauses, more than that and the function containing the switch statement is not optimizable
 
@uselesschien browsers have native promises btw
those who doesnt -- must bear the consequences :D
 
12:38 PM
@Abhishrek yep, I know
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum can bluebird not have like a bluebird-polyfill and bluebird-utils for browsers ?
 
I wrote that once and then deleted it
:D It's a terrible idea.
 
Like regenerator runtime sepearately required by babel ?
 
wow this chat uses jQuery
:c
 
12:41 PM
^ The same gif was used for "Examining the values of variables at breakpoints"
 
!!should i write minimal required ui components or just use the bad blob of code winjs
 
@Abhishrek You should write minimal required ui components
 
@afonsomatos is that gif from "The Truman Show"?
 
idk
 
@Abhishrek I just require('bluebird') in every moduel that needs it but I've been tempted to polyfill it.
 
12:48 PM
why did they shutdown orkut :(
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm planning to test my implementation against this: github.com/promises-aplus/promises-tests
Is that too old?
 
@uselesschien no, it is in fact an excellent test suite.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh, thank you :)
 
Good luck
 
woohoo
arrows in v8
status: fixed
 
12:52 PM
Yeah, just got the email, for realsies
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yup, same
 
oh, so only took 4 ship/revert iterations. neat.
 
I suspect I'll be using babel for the foreseeable future no matter how much chrome implements.
 
for iojs though! :D
 
@Luggage just want to put it out there that the moment sebastian stops taking care of it for whatever reason Babel is dead.
 
12:55 PM
i depend on it. it's how i write es6 for ie9
though it's 'good enough' already.
also it's my JSX tool. I can't image it dying.. it's a vital part of a lot of build systems.
 
Yes, maintained by one guy who used to chat here :D
 
Amusing how simple open source projects can rapidly become an important dependency of a large community.
 
Fastest "please come join the TC" I've ever seen. That guy is a rockstar.
 
I suspect others will pick up maintenence if needed.
 
But, if something happens to Sebastian, no one has any idea how to maintain Babel.
There are contributors, but it's not even close.
 
1:02 PM
but lots of people with good develoeprs and motivation could learn. like facebook
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but people can figure it out ofcourse, right?
 
No. It's magic.
 
@AwalGarg not sure, I think I could maintain bluebird if something happens to Petka but future development will probably halt. I don't have the time mostly.
 
Everything can be learned, but if it's a good mess (I have no idea) it will take quite a while for it to be learned, and then the time investment to actually develop on it..
 
Gorgi doesn't have the time either. Kind of like how Q is mostly in "maintenance mode"
@RoelvanUden it's not a mess, it's just a very large code base using non-trivial techniques.
 
1:03 PM
If you don't have the time but have an intimate knowledge of the codebase, then you can jstu deal with accepting (and rejecting) pull requestts
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Non trivial code, to me, equals a mess. :P
 
@Luggage Isn't esprima already maintained by Facebook?
 
@AwalGarg who's using Esprima?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum linters, I guess :/
 
Not babel :D
 
1:05 PM
the linter I use does, atleast
 
I think they are not anymore: facebook.github.io/react/blog
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum acorn?
 
I skimmed through parts of babel code a while ago thinking I could speed things up and just got utterly confused and went to sleep.
 
lol
I skimmed through winjs, and actually figured out despite the library is good
 
1:10 PM
I skimmed thought wordpress code, got dizzy and hit my head on the bathtub.
 
Wordpress code is horrible.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum said jquery code is horrible but now I know it is just terrible on another level.
 
I hate third party libraries, so I read their APIs and try to mimic them.
 
Wordpress code is pretty simple. It's just a DSL.
Yeah, jQuery is one of the worst code bases I've ever read.
 
1:15 PM
$(wordpress).Deferred()
 
@AwalGarg wordpress is atleast useful
@BenjaminGruenbaum have youu seen winjs code ?
 
I don't answer to u
 
lol
Why ? :-( @BenjaminGruenbaum what did i do wrong now ?
 
!!s/u /yo$&/ 24207414
 
@AwalGarg @BenjaminGryouenbaum have u seen winjs code ? (source)
 
1:17 PM
Because it's been 2 years and you ought to start using "You"
 
dammit
 
aurgh
 
sorry. Mobile
 
@AwalGarg @BenjaminGruenbaum have youyou seen winjs code ? (source)
 
1:18 PM
I give up.
 
yo-yo!
!!google yo-yo
 
:D
 
Did I mail you Benjamin ?
 
Happy Canada Day! \o/
 
> Now that ECMAScript 2015 Language Specification has been approved as a standard when can we expect each browser to start using it without having to activate it?
Talk about realistic expectations :P
 
@rlemon :D
do i get free canadian beer ?
 
@Abhishrek No
 
1:41 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum My apologies, now i did.
// ps you have write privilages
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nice
 
how do you fix live reloaderror: localhost:35729/livereload.js net::ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED
 
@SuperUberDuper Yeah... I don't think we're going to be able to debug stuff on your localhost
 
Haven't watched yet, but likely awesome: vimeo.com/111122950
 
@copy oh, this guy
 
1:47 PM
Oh, it's old
 
Yeah, it's pretty cool, I think you actually posted a link to it here before
lol
 
Some time ago on react official home page was something like: "Just V in MVC"
Now is: "Lots of people use React as the V in MVC."
Why i think it will be full fronted JS framework on its own if not already. There are concept of state and routing
 
@Srle state is part of the V in MVC and routing is a component it's not built in
 
> I think @jmm is right. Every time I trying to start learning Babel's internals I realise that it is very hard and I have no so much free time for reverse engineering. Would be cool if someone will add some docs for developers who are interested in contribution.
 
What about developers who are only interested in... retribution?
 
user1596138
1:56 PM
Monring
 
user1596138
I get to drive 1300+ miles between now and Sunday
 
I've driven from baltimore to denver.
 
!!undo
 
@Jhawins I like driving long distances (More than 2 hours) every once in a while, I hate short drives
 
Oooh, Cap removed my last command in the sandbox
 
2:00 PM
Hello people, what's cracking
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum Me too, but it's 9.5 hours each way so I probably won't enjoy the drive home.
 
Haha, visiting home?
 
user1596138
Yep
 
user1596138
We got Thurs and Fri off for the 4th so I'm leaving after work today coming back Sunday
 
Awesome :D
Your family will probably be very happy to see you :)
 
user1596138
2:02 PM
Yep, plus I'm getting my bike!
 
 
user1596138
Which is another reason I'm not looking forward to the drive home... I sketch out bad enough when I drive an hour with my bike in the back let alone ~10 :O
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nice cross-language discussion. +1 from me (specially because you invited php interals :D)
 
I added info about how to clear an interval. No need to be rude Juhana. Jesus. It's not wrong, it was just incomplete. Take a chill pill. — Chev 8 mins ago
 
sanity check: Object.create(Object.create(null)).__proto__ should be an object, right? (namely, the object created by Object.create(null))
I ask because that's not what I'm seeing in any browser
 
2:13 PM
no.
The point of Object.create(null) is to create an object without a prototype
 
right
and the outer Object.create(...) creates an object with a prototype (in this case , Object.create(null))
 
oh. Ew.
 
var proto = Object.create(null);
var obj = Object.create(proto);
obj.__proto__
 
Console bug?
 
I filed a bug; I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious
 
2:17 PM
What's the use case?
 
compliance with ES6, mostly, I guess
I didn't write the code that caused the bug :P
 
Are you testing random parts of ES6 to see if they match browser behavior?
 
Well, actually, there is one valid case I think of
which is that Chrome's logging of objects in the console uses __proto__
so if I have an object whose prototype parent or granparent is a null-prototyped object, I can't see the prototype chain when I console.dir the object
 
that would be a bug, and possibly unlikely
 
2:34 PM
@apsillers hmm
What browser?
Doesn't look like a bug
@apsillers that is true
Do Object.getPrototypeOf(obj) === proto
 
have any of you been forced to work with TypeScript before?
 
I've worked with typescipt before and @RoelvanUden uses it in production.
Don't think anyone was "forced"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum :p
 
does a handgun count as "forced"?
 
@AaronHarding forced, no. Chose to, yes. It's pretty useful and will be very nice with 1.5 stable
We used it on a medium-sized project (5-10kloc I was maintaining and 4 other 2-3 person teams with 2-5kloc each). Made keeping things in sync much easier.
 
2:40 PM
It's an interesting idea, but I think I can handle my types myself, thanks. Might be helpful in collaborative code, though
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Object.getPrototypeOf works correctly; __proto__ appears not to (obj.__proto__ != Object.getPrototypeOf(obj))
It was nonstandard before ES6, so I'm not surprised it has weirdness, but just wanted to make sure that it is indeed weirdness
 
Multiple teams or large (25kloc+) codebases are where you really start to benefit from static analysis.
 
@AaronHarding No, but I've been forced to work with CoffeeScript before.
 
@apsillers __proto__ should usually return the same result as getPrototypeOf but I'm not sure if there isn't an edge case for create(null)
Check if it's documented first.
What bothers me about things like Object.create(null) is that they were created for use cases 99.99% of JS developers don't need, use or care about.
 
I like the console egg on vimeo pages.
 
2:44 PM
Like playing swapsies on the internet between untrusting parties :D
 
@copy that talk is pretty much a POS.
Not that I expect anything better from msft people but still... :P j/k
 
ah okay. i've just been brought onto a project where the lead dev is using typescrip
t
so gotta use it
 
@AaronHarding if you use it without types, it's pretty much 80% of ES6. With types, it's ES6 with some static analysis ("hey, that looks wrong" style).
Interestingly, the TS compiler will still output compiled code even if the type validation fails.
 
@ssube thanks!
 
Just don't run the command line compilers, it's incredibly slow. gulp-typescript can go through a few thousand lines/second.
 
2:48 PM
@ssube literally just setting up gulp watch rn :3
..and gulp typescript
i have 1 semantic error 😎
 
user1596138
I have spent the last 6 work hours reconfiguring my shit because the help desk came and ripped my machine out from under my desk and reimaged
 
I have a date string with me. something like this: "2015-05-21 23:41:54"
 
user1596138
> Consequently,
websites will potentially be able to see all visible content from
the user’s screen, irrespective of its origin.
 
user1596138
That is so stupid.
 
3:02 PM
I need to check whether it is a valid date string or not. How to do that?
 
user1596138
> Screenshots are insecure because they share the visible content of your screen regardless of the origin
 
that string is valid in chrome but not in firefox
 
user1596138
!!> Date('2015-05-21 23:41:54')
 
@Jhawins "Wed Jul 01 2015 11:02:10 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time)"
 
user1596138
 
user1596138
3:04 PM
Exact same thing as Firefox in Chrome (except for the timezones were different)
 
@Mr_Green Have you tried googling "check if date is valid in JS"?
 
When deploying to heroku, I have to include all the modules, right? Does Heroku have the core modules by default?
 
@Jhawins Date() returns the current time, regardless of arguments. new Date is what you wanted there.
 
nvm, fixed it
 
user1596138
3:06 PM
@Retsam Heh, that's embarrassing.
 
Ehh, "Let's have a bunch of functions that act differently depending on whether or not they're invoked with new!" is quite possibly my least favorite JS design decision.
 
user1596138
!!> new Date('2015-05-21 23:41:54')
 
@Jhawins null
 
user1596138
My favorite part is the consistency
 
user1596138
I mean, you can open up any version of any browser and they'll all do the same thing with the same code
 
user1596138
3:08 PM
Right?
 
@Kippie is there not a common cause for this?
 
I was just a few moments ago trying to look up Boolean(val) to make sure it was equivalent to !!val... but MDN only wanted to talk to me about new Boolean(val) which is entirely different
 
@Retsam classes in ES6 can't be called without new and arrows can't be called with new fwiw
 
That's nice, but I've never had a problem with it in code other people have written; I don't think I can think of a single library that treats Foo and new Foo differently, it's just the built-in methods that annoy me.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you mean, you'll have to instantiate a class before you can access its methods and properties?
 
3:22 PM
@Meraj99 that's always true anywa
 
thats what you mean, right?
 
user1596138
!!> Boolean(-true) // hurrrr I so clever
 
@Jhawins true
 
is the transform: translateY(-50%); trick to centre page elements trigger heavier paints then, table or the :before method of vertically centering?
 
@Retsam That's why they introduced classes
Plus new objects can't be invoked without the new keyword.
Ex: Sets, Maps, WeakSets, WeakMaps.
 
3:35 PM
Facebook's logo got kiddier (Or whatever you call it)
 
3:57 PM
Is anyone able to edit the ionic tag wiki so it doesn't read like an advertisement? I ask as I'm honestly unsure how to fix it so it doesn't; stackoverflow.com/tags/ionic/info
 
i don't see react.ids on facebook's homepage. Where do they use react?
 
Hi, I checked the JavaScript chat resources part on this page, and saw nothing besides API docs. I was wondering if you could suggest any good resources to learn JavaScript from someone with previous experience in scripting languages?
I've tried Code Academy, but with a lot of their stuff, it's quite slow for someone who knows what variables are, scope, etc.
 
@AlexanderHuszagh Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
@AlexanderHuszagh Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
I think MDN has some tutorials
or perhaps learn x in y minutes
 
Thank you!. That last one looks perfect.
 
4:02 PM
I like that site
 
Bookmarking it for future use. :D Code Academy is great if you've never seen code before but... 30 minute of repeating console.log() got a bit dull.
 
4:21 PM
Where do people share their Phonegap creations ( the equivalent of google play ) ?
 
@JanDvorak That doesn't teach you anything :/
 
@uselesschien wat?
 
@JanDvorak Eloquent JavaScript is a good book, and it's free to read online. /cc @AlexanderHuszagh
 
too low-level
 
Learn X in Y minutes is good if you want to revise a language's syntax, and that's it.
 
4:26 PM
The re-introduction to javascript is great too developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/…
 
hey all, anyone know how to specify a concat order with grunt-contrib-concat? See my question here: stackoverflow.com/questions/31166695/… --- thanks :)
 
Thanks, this helps me out immensely.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I hadn't seen it yet
 
By setting src and dest separately.
 
4:34 PM
It's funny, but not very substantial JS hate
 
Whats the fastest way to implement a deque in js
Link Lists** ?
 
No
 
@copy educate me :-)
 
code-fastest - arrays
 
array shifts === pita slow
 
and i rely a lot on push/pop/shift/unshift
 
runtime-fastest - worth trying anyways. You can only guess at the browser implementation
 
alright i amma try with arrays then with deques
 
No, not array directly
 
perhaps have a pair of stacks?
What's the use case?
 
4:44 PM
Virtual scrolling list
 
Well ListView port in pure react
 
It's somewhere in there, if you want the details
 
and instead of getting elements in and out of dom
am thinking of using flex order property
so with like 2x elements i can have smooth scroll (and react handles the dom manips) so they are even faster !
 
"dequeue" for "double ended queue"? I can't tell if that's the best or the worst name ever.
 
4:48 PM
"dynamic programming" is the worst name ever
 
d-e queue
 
Dynamic programming is a bad name, sure. But "deque" is a pun.
 
5:18 PM
What was that effect called where the less you know about the subject the more convinced you are you'll succeed?
 
dunning kruger effect?
> The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority
 
Good morning
 
isn't it 2pm for you?
 
@FlorianMargaine thanks
 
1pm lol
but i just got to work so that's my standard greeting
had to go to the bank
 
5:22 PM
posted on July 01, 2015 by Alex R. Young

On Monday the Node Long-term Support Working Group met to discuss plans for Node's future release schedule. The plan is described as a strawman LTS plan, meaning it's preliminary and hasn't yet been approved. There's a discussion on GitHub about it that I found through this Tweet (retweeted by @rvagg

 
It's morning in UGT.
 
About to start work on finishing up the router replacement from yesterday. No impact expected. Of course that’s what I said yesterday ...
 
morning
 
imgur.com/gallery/QdbkFD7 i made imgur happen
gonna post weird people I see on the metro xD starting with Asian Johnny Depp
 
@SterlingArcher he's so cute
 
5:31 PM
He's a good boy :)
 
@argentum47 Looks like a utility for creating a function with a specific .length property.
 
ow... ok... I am looking into fp .. I have seen a lot of implmentation of currying
 
@argentum47 there is an explained version of that in StackOverflow
@argentum47 that - is optimization.
 
5:41 PM
i see, ok I am looking in SO questions
 
omg guys im interweb famous
 
4
A: JS Function With Two Parentheses and Two Params

Scott SauyetTo extend what both T. J. Crowder and Benjamin Gruenbaum said, libraries like Ramda (disclosure: I'm one of the authors) allow you to convert a simple function like this: function add(a, b) { return a + b; } into the style under discussion by wrapping it in a call to a curry function: var...

Here
 
thanks :))
ok, now I understand this partial thing
closures are cool
 
http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/07/01/an-ounce-of-cure-is-worth-a-pound-of-prevention/
CommitStrip - Blog relating the daily life of web agencies developers
An ounce of cure is worth a pound of prevention
CommitStrip
1435772646
 
^ serif
 
5:50 PM
i like driod
 
Trolling HTML/CSS room
^_^
 
oh :D
I am having a problem these days. I making changes to existing codes and then my lack of thought is causing bugs nd breaking things often ..... I might get scolded very soon :( .. how do I fix myself
 
6:06 PM
Think about it more? Ideally the logic would already be wrapped in unit tests; but if it's not, there's really no silver bullet for not making changes that break things
 
Use a statically typed language
 
Test thoroughly
 
wait this works !
return {startPoint, endPoint};
 
Is stylus the best css preprocessor?
 
This is the JavaScript room.
 
6:22 PM
@Fuser97381 PHP is
 
We talk about PHP.
 
oh wait
 
@afonsomatos You're right.
 
What happens here ?
 
@Abhishrek add ()s it'll make sense
 
6:33 PM
@Abhishrek You are basically destructuring r
and assigning the result to foo
 
@Abhishrek You get an error.
 
Yikes
i didn't knew we could do that with ( )
 
What kinds of things would you want to see in a front end developer coding test? Nothing on the expert level
 
asynchronous fizz-buzz
 
6:44 PM
Create a distributed map-reduce using web workers
 
No, you are.
 
@NickDugger can u write proper css or do you murder browser and dont even blink.
 
!!s/ u / you /
 
@ssube @NickDugger can you write proper css or do you murder browser and dont even blink. (source)
 
6:50 PM
kan u writ css stiles an do u kill firefox pls
 
@KendallFrey (@rlemon) I like that better than throttling
 
@Zirak KendallFrey is afk: zzzzz
 
Is it generally accepted by websites to not support old browsers?
 
yes
 
Depends entirely on your customer base.
and how you define old
 
6:56 PM
What's the typical cutoff range?
 
Depends on your customer base.
 
SE supports latest two versions
 
Mmm, iunno, let's say agar.io for example
 
If you're a startup with plenty of venture capital and no business model, you'll probably support IE11+. If you're an enterprise SaaS vendor, you'll support IE7 or 8+.
 
No paying customers, support whatever the heck you want.
 
6:57 PM
If you sell to the public sector, you probably support IE6-8.
 
Private sector is more edge?
 
Yes
 
coding a userscript = Chrome first and if someone complains fix whatever doesn't work in firefox
 
By approximately one million
 
wow
cool
Somebody made food in my office, and it honestly smells like urine
its kinda gross
 

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