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12:06 PM
@towc blank screen
Lots of 404 errors
 
@SecondRikudo yeah, 5 mins after the link was created it removes everything in it
sadly I'm not at home, and I have no ftp access for my server
 
try that one, quick!
 
QVIK!
What's the point of it though? Or rather, the planned point of it?
 
@SecondRikudo not sure...
A regular shooter?
if it randomly freezes just reload the page.
 
12:13 PM
It freezes on tab switch for some reason :P
I really need to learn how to use the canvas
 
@SecondRikudo intended
to prevent it from calculating too much when it comes back
 
I should code more Java 8 and form a more educated opinion of it, have only used it 3-4 times.
 
@SecondRikudo No
 
!!s/should/should never/
??
!!live
 
@SecondRikudo I'm not dead! Honest!
 
12:16 PM
What just happened? :p
 
(∩ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)⊃━☆゚. * ・ 。 ᵀᴴᴱ ᴳᴬᴹᴱ
 
!!tell Benjamin eadhebrew
 
@Benjamin תאכל זין™
 
Solid retort
 
12:17 PM
Indeed
 
I really need to find an artist friend... which can do my sprites, have fun and not get paid at the same time
 
@towc @mikedidthis
 
!!s/artist friend/slave/
 
Sounds like @CapricaSix's !!s/ got borked
 
!!tell Zirak eadhebrew
fix it
 
12:20 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Command eatdhebrew does not exist. Did you mean: eadhebrew (note that /tell works on commands, it's not an echo.)
 
@SecondRikudo he probably hasn't got time to listen to my needs, and he's well too talented for my things
 
@Zirak תאכל זין™
3
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what's wrong with it?
what does it even mean?
 
!!>'who‮'
 
@CSᵠ "who‮"
 
12:21 PM
!!>'you'
 
@towc "you"
 
@towc It means "eat a dick"
 
@SomeGuy oh
 
@SomeGuy you gotta come to himalyaas.
 
I want to someday!
 
12:26 PM
I am here, and cycling in himalayas is fun :D --- downhill that is. [uphill is a pain in the ass]
 
Hahaha I cycled uphill in Lonavala for sometime. Felt like I was dying
 
@SomeGuy I have been training for this.
Surprizingly BSNL has 200ms latency here, IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE
 
What are Uint8Arrays, Uint16Arrays etc.. ArrayBuffers? How can I understand this if I am a front-end developer?
 
@AfonsoMatos they come from C and C++, and are needed when you want to send some data which can't be normally written in js. ArrayBuffers are for the crypto API
and unless you work with js or c-like languages, there's no reason for you to know them
 
12:34 PM
Should I try to understand them now If I am going to dive in node.js?
 
@AfonsoMatos depends on what do you want to do with node.js
I'm no node expert, so I don't even know how those things are used in node
 
I don't know.. I pretend to master it and use it in real-time web applications..
 
@AfonsoMatos if you want to master node you must first master js, therefore you should learn about them
 
How can I master those typearrays if I am currently working on the browser? Are they useful in the browser?
 
@AfonsoMatos yeah
I first met those when I tried to learn WebGL
 
12:37 PM
And you did it?
Or just tried.
 
just tried
I was able to make some white triangles, and control their position, but no shading or colouring
it started getting too mathy. Then surrendered and started using THREEjs
 
Is there anywhere else where I should use typearrays? (in the browser of course)
 
@AfonsoMatos likely, but none that I know of. Google it?
 
One thing I don't understand
why does assigning a value beyond 255 to an array of 8 bit
doesn't throw an error and instead 'transforms' the number to other?
 
@AfonsoMatos For the same reason we even have an 8bit number type.
 
12:41 PM
var arr = new Uint8Array(1)
undefined
arr[0] = 399393
399393
arr
[33]
 
Because 50 years ago, it was a great idea.
2
 
I'm feeling so dumb right now.
 
A couple generations back, you'd have several kilobytes of RAM.
Saving every byte made a lot of sense
Throwing errors was expensive
 
I applied for imgur, i hope that should be fun ;D
 
So instead, you'd simply ignore the most significant bits, and left the least significant bits.
 
12:43 PM
Oh I got it!
They kind of shift the bytes?
 
Today, this approach doesn't make sense at all, but it's still used because of the 5 chimp problem.
 
evening
 
700
A: What technical reasons are there to have low maximum password lengths?

Tom LeekTake five chimpanzees. Put them in a big cage. Suspend some bananas from the roof of the cage. Provide the chimpanzees with a stepladder. BUT also add a proximity detector to the bananas, so that when a chimp goes near the banana, water hoses are triggered and the whole cage is thoroughly soaked....

 
@AwalGarg evening
 
@SecondRikudo that's not a real experiment
 
12:45 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know
 
195
Q: Was the experiment with five monkeys, a ladder, a banana and a water spray conducted?

Tom WijsmanI've found the following picture online. It is about the moral/paradigm behind consistent behavior. Click to enlarge. The image text says A group of scientists placed 5 monkeys in a cage and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on the top. Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the...

 
@BenjaminGruenbaum it is... somewhat
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum have you ever been to himalaya ?
 
And does a Uint8Array matters if I use a normal Array with only 8 bit numbers inside? And does it occupies less space than a normal Array? And does it matter?
 
@AwalGarg I'm kind of sick of being rude to you, so I expect you to retract that bluntly false statement and apologize on your own.
@darkyen00 I've sent you a picture from my trip there just yesterday - so yes.
 
12:46 PM
Didn't got it :o
 
@AfonsoMatos it depends on what you're making. Also - yes.
@darkyen00 probably because you deleted facebook.
 
I fail to understand many people from this room
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum true dat.
 
This is all very interesting..
 
If I send a POST ajax request to a cross domain with

xhrFields: {
withCredentials: true
}

- then a cookie is sent
but it wont work if the server wont allow CORS
But how can it be ? , the cookie attachment to the request is BEFORE the server response with CORS headers
 
12:51 PM
Hey guys do you recommend these two books? I am going to buy them
Node.js the right way - http://www.amazon.com/Node-js-Right-Way-Server-Side-JavaScript/dp/1937785734

Node.js in Action - http://www.amazon.com/Node-js-Action-Mike-Cantelon/dp/1617290572/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdt_img_top?ie=UTF8
 
@AfonsoMatos How good are you with JavaScript?
 
wow i wrote this :o
 
@SecondRikudo I go from closures.. to the canvas.. I read many books about design patterns.. the good parts
 
@AfonsoMatos In that case I doubt you really need a book about node
Node has a few tricky concepts, but nothing you can't learn yourself.
This is a good start ^
 
@SecondRikudo That is actually too begginer for me.. I know the basic concepts of node.
I just feel like I should follow a Path, because when I learn it by myself I might do some mistakes or don't realize that there are better ways to do it.
 
12:56 PM
:-( i used to write more & better code in past :-(
 
"How not to do it?" remains the biggest question of mine until I understand something completely.
 
@AfonsoMatos Nothing wrong with making mistakes
 
@AfonsoMatos I do not.
The best way to learn how to node is instead of reading a book for 30 days - do exercises every day for 30 days, put them on GH and ask community for feedback - for example codereview.stackexchange or even this chat.
There is no path, node is a very diverse and rich ecosystem, a lot of people do things differently and there are semi-regular shifts in how people do things for the better - it's evolving pretty fast.
If you already understand how HTTP works fundamentally (status code, chunking, headers etc) and JS (the concurrency model, objects, closures etc) then node should not be a big challenge.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum as per our conversation several (many) days ago: dec64.org
 
To be fair, you said a lot of incorrect things in that conversation :P
 
1:03 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Like what? :P
 
@SecondRikudo I have never ever seen such a page
 
Like how computers work, how numbers are represented, how numbers works etc.
It sounded like you saw crockford's lecture and just went with it.
(We all saw that better parts lecture when we were there)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Numbers are represented by bits, I did say that
But a higher layer can use those bits in whatever order or way it sees fit.
 
@SecondRikudo right, but it makes no sense, base 10 is not easier than base 2 to use. There and there are more edge cases.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Base 10 is easier than base 2 to use in applications that require numbers to be in base 10.
 
1:06 PM
Applications don't require numbers to be in base 2, a number just is.
A base is only how we represent a number, 2 in base 10 is the same 10 in base 2 which is the same as II in roman numerals.
A number is separate from how you represent it, it's not even usually defined in a base, it's defined through set containment.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's true, but it is impossible to accurately represent a lot (read, an infinite number of) base 10 numbers in base 2.
 
You define the empty set {} to be zero, then the set that contains it {{}} as one, and then the set that contains that as {{{}}} as 2 etc.
 
And the real world (read, the business world) uses base 10 numbers.
 
@SecondRikudo that's completely false.
No, that's not true - the real world just uses numbers, it's irrelevant how you present them visually.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum How can you accurately represent 0.1 in base2?
And 0.nnn........ is not "accurately" nor "represent"
 
1:08 PM
Sure it is.
How do you represent 1/3 in base 10? You accurately represent it as 0.33333....
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum No, it isn't, because you can't really use that in an application with a finite number of bits.
 
It's an accurate representation with a formal definition.
@SecondRikudo just like you can't use 0.3333... for 1/3.
 
dat classy example :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Never claimed to.
 
Computers have finite memory and some numbers like Pi require an infinite number of bits or memory if you present them in a base.
 
1:09 PM
You know what's the difference between theory and practice?
In theory, theory works, in practice, it doesn't.
 
@SecondRikudo I DO I DO!!!
 
That you don't understand the theory in this case and think you can still set practice.
Crockford is somewhat of a douche on these things.
 
In theory, theory is the same as practice. In practice, it is not.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know that I want to bill the client 0.1 dollars, and can't do it.
 
@SecondRikudo that problem is inherent to all those formats, you'd want a decimal or money type in order to do that and those exist.
 
1:10 PM
(was I correct though?)
 
What if you want to bill the client 1e-65 dollars?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum WHY THE HELL DO I NEED TYPES?
 
I strongly recommend that as a smart person you consider having a second opinion.
 
Why the hell would I want to choose between types of numbers in a language which isn't C?
 
@SecondRikudo because programming is not magic.
@SecondRikudo because different types have different performance characteristics. Duh.
 
1:11 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Please
 
You could write all your C# code with decimal and it'll be arbitrarily precise, it'd just be slow.
Also, you don't have to choose types, you can implement a type system in which doubles coerce to decimals and ints coerce to longs when they need to.
For example - Python ships with arbitrary precision ints.
You can do x = 5 or x = 1e100 and it'd represent them accurately.
You can get reasonable performance in most cases with types but that type is definitely not DEC64.
This sort of shit is why noone takes Crockford seriously for the past 4 years.
 
I dunno, I think what he said there has merit. A lot of merit.
 
You want to swap out double for decimal? Go ahead, but this is not a base issue. Bases are meaningless, they are just representation.
@SecondRikudo his idea "numbers are too hard" is correct, his solution is laughable.
 
not sure whether this is relevant but some CPUs actually have decimal registers that 'directly' represent decimal numbers. 4 bits per decimal place value IIRC, and they prohibit values higher than 1001
just, y'know, in case anyone was interested
 
1:15 PM
> Bases are meaningless
eh?
 
@AwalGarg the entity we perceive as two, has the same meaning in every base.
Adding it to itself would be four, the numeric entity in every base.
@AwalGarg what I'm trying to say is that how we represent a number is irrelevant to what a number is.
 
Benji have you looked at koa.js ?
generator as middleware --- looks clean
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum No arguments there
 
@darkyen00 meh
 
But the way we represent those numbers in software is "hard" and unnecessarily so.
 
1:19 PM
Right, I agree that numbers should be simpler - I just think his solution is absurdly bad.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum How so?
Remember, he was talking about Application languages, not low level languages.
If JavaScript used a format similar to DEC64 rather than what it uses today, would it be significantly slower?
 
His solution still gets stuff wrong, he has the exact same problem with base 10 numbers that the binary solution has with binary numbers only it's slower.
@SecondRikudo yes, although engines would still not actually represent numbers as doubles or decimal-doubles but as SMIs.
 
hold on.... base 2 means that there are 2 entities which can be used to represent as many numbers as we want, right? And so does base 10 mean we have 10 of those entities to represent as many numbers as want?
 
Here is an alternative solution - have an arbitrary precision type to the language.
@AwalGarg yes, as digits
 
@AwalGarg Base 2 means that you have 2 digits per "place", base 10 means you have 10.
 
1:22 PM
(ofcourse there is the decimal... but we can keep that aside)
 
[0..1] (2 digits) vs [0..9] (10 digits)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Having to choose types is stupid. I really agree with what he said about JS there with going with one Number type being a better decision.
 
Just put all numbers as arbitrary precision numbers. Like decimal. Then optimize stuff like loops or array indexes through code analysis to small ints.
@SecondRikudo in that case, don't do DEC64, use C#'s arbitrary precision decimal and static analysis.
Fact is, people still asked for typed arrays because they're a real need.
Doubles are way too slow for some use cases.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum indeed, now how is the "base" meaningless, please explain to me?
 
1:24 PM
@AwalGarg Because every number can be represented in any base.
 
@AwalGarg it's just how you translate a number to a string.
It's how you write it.
 
100_2 and 4_10 are exactly the same number.
 
If I start writing two as "smiley" it'll still be two.
 
@SecondRikudo I give you a number - 46321, now tell me what entity it represents?
 
@AwalGarg The number forty six thousand, three hundred and twenty one.
 
1:26 PM
@SecondRikudo bad answer... what does that thing represent? What is it exactly???
 
@SecondRikudo DEC64 fails on as much edge cases as double, you can't realistically claim code doesn't have thirds just like I won't claim code doesn't have tenths. On the other hand DEC64 is significantly slower. Moreover, name one thing either does better than having arbitrary precision numbers in the language.
 
And 1011010011110001 is the exact same entity as the two above.
 
Let's not forget that you only need 34 digits of precision of Pi for any known physical calculation.
 
@SecondRikudo na-uh... I didn't tell you what base was that representation is in. It could be decimal, or octal?
how do you know?
From what base did you convert that number to what base?
 
@AwalGarg Because in English (and most if not all other languages we speak), unless otherwise specified, base 10 is assumed.
 
1:29 PM
Because we have 10 fingers, that's why.
 
Just like a circle has 360 degrees because we have about 360 days in a year.
 
I have two eyes.
 
inb4 obligatory numberphile youtube vid link
 
haven't watched it.
@AwalGarg you don't count with your eyes,
 
1:30 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum neither do I count with my fingers
 
@AwalGarg Sure you do
As a young kid you were taught to count with your fingers
 
> a circle has 360 degrees because we have about 360 days in a year
:/
 
@AwalGarg our orbit ain't a circle
if it was we would have ~ 360 days easily :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum do you have a source supporting the above? I have never heard of it and would like to know if this is true really.
(or you are just kidding me)
 
@SecondRikudo 's youtube link
 
1:32 PM
@SecondRikudo doesn't mean I still follow that
 
@AwalGarg No, but that's why we as society use base 10
It's comfortable counting with our fingers.
 
I was taught as a young kid that I should never waste food, because if I do, some holy spirit shall punish me. Now I know that is absolute rubbish.
 
You should not waste food because wasting food is a dick move.
4
 
@SecondRikudo I can agree to that.
But the point is, this "base" doesn't look meaningless to me at all.
 
it takes practice.
 
1:34 PM
It is ... the base after all
 
@AwalGarg All of maths and software still work regardless of what base you use numbers.
Watch the video above
 
Hey all, how's it going?
 
I think we follow base 10 because meh we did, its like we call atom atom cause somebody did.. we can't change it now can we ?
@SecondRikudo we could also count base 30 easily with fingers :P
 
@darkyen00 no one is discussing changing it, we're talking about its origin
 
We follow base 10 because that is the banana. And we are all chimpanzees.
@SecondRikudo ^
 
1:35 PM
@darkyen00 I count with base 2 on my fingers
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum read about aryabhatta
@SecondRikudo me too
 
@darkyen00 atom is just in greek means smallest part.
@darkyen00 ok
 
!!wiki Aryabhatta
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum No... it means "can't be divided"
a-tom
 
@SecondRikudo without knowing about the base at all?
 
1:38 PM
@SecondRikudo that's the same thing...
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not really, one is the cause, the other is the effect.
 
Also, we both read it on wikipedia some time, neither of us knows greek, no need to pretend :D
@SecondRikudo that's a philosophical discussion that'd get us nowhere.
 
why is the bot dead ?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What is life?
 
yeah let us all nitpick benji because he is benji
 
1:39 PM
!!live
 
Aryabhata (Sanskrit: आर्यभट; IAST: Āryabhaṭa) or Aryabhata I (476–550 CE) was the first in the line of great mathematician-astronomers from the classical age of Indian mathematics and Indian astronomy. His works include the Āryabhaṭīya (499 CE, when he was 23 years old) and the Arya-siddhanta. The works of Aryabhata dealt with mainly mathematics and astronomy. == Biography == === Name === While there is a tendency to misspell his name as "Aryabhatta" by analogy with other names having the "bhatta" suffix, his name is properly spelled Aryabhata: every astronomical text spells his name th...
Read the part -- Mathematics
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum AFAIK, we come at 365 days after we have a circle with 360 degrees, no?
(might be wrong, just asking)
 
I don't think so.
Math doesn't use degrees btw. It uses radians.
 
also, I thought degrees is POS, ain't radian the prominent unit?
dang
okk. So first we have a circle of 2pi radians, then 365 days, and then 360 degrees
 
1:42 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I never really got radians.
It's a unitless unit.
 
@SecondRikudo it is a ratio
 
@AwalGarg Which is why it doesn't make sense as a unit...
 
@SecondRikudo There are many such units
A unit simply means 1.
 
@AwalGarg Example?
 
@SecondRikudo refractive index is represented with mu which is a unitless unit
or something
don't exactly remember...
 
1:45 PM
@AwalGarg Refractive index is not a unit
 
let me copy the exact unicode symbol for that
 
It's a ratio between angles, and it makes sense to use it in that context
@AwalGarg I know what refractive index is.
 
@SecondRikudo the same as radians
 
Not really, because you can convert radians, a unitless unit, to degrees, which is a unit that represents something.
 
1 radian represents something, so does 1mu (1 unit refraction) and so does 1 degree
...
shit I can't explain myself
A unit of measurement is a definite magnitude of a physical quantity, defined and adopted by convention or by law, that is used as a standard for measurement of the same physical quantity. Any other value of the physical quantity can be expressed as a simple multiple of the unit of measurement. For example, length is a physical quantity. The metre is a unit of length that represents a definite predetermined length. When we say 10 metres (or 10 m), we actually mean 10 times the definite predetermined length called "metre". The definition, agreement, and practical use of units of measurement have...
here it is
Did someone checkout the experimental Layers tab in cdt?
 
@erikroyall ?
 
@AwalGarg Run.
 
@erikroyall you win over jquery
 
Oh, thank you.
And mine's aria-compat.
 
@SecondRikudo you were asking for a meaning of the game? 5c64569.5minfork.com
those black boxes are like turrets
you get killed from getting hit by those
at least, their bullets
and there is some score now
by killing the green jumpy things you get 1 point, by killing the turrets you get 2 (50 green things, 10 black ones)
space to shoot if you didn't get it yet
 
2:09 PM
 
@AwalGarg wow.
 
@erikroyall you can enter that fellowship with this, /me thinks
 
I don't have a profitable idea.
Seems like they need one from me for me to get into.
 
 
@erikroyall Make hilo profitable.
 
2:12 PM
@AwalGarg A JavaScript library?
 
@erikroyall maybe
 
"I'm Erik Royall, and I'm an OSS enthusiast."
"Applying for legally stealing $100k from you."
 
seems legit to me
what does jquery toggle do?
 
.show() if the element is hidden. Or .hide() if it's visible.
 
see? I win!
xD j/k
 
2:20 PM
wow.
Idc. Hilo beats jQuery.
I heard jQuery's .toggle is deprecated.
Or that it's going away.
Hilo.toggle() lets you set an optional display parameter. Like if you want the css display to be set to something like table, write Hilo(el).toggle("table")
 
considerable spritesheet upgrade
 
@SterlingArcher fully agreed, thats why I mentioned Diablo. 1+2 had that darkish freaky atmosphere, just with the graphic capabilities of the time.
 
2:37 PM
@towc cool
 

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