« first day (967 days earlier)      last day (3987 days later) » 

1:00 PM
@redline Polymorphism is treating different objects that share a common super type as that super type. Not having overrides totally beats that purpose. Overriding is what makes polymorphism valuable to begin with.
 
the point of polymorphism isn't for subclasses to forget what kind of subclass they are when you call them as a group??
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but I mean in Java if the parent method is final then you cannot define a new method in the subclass with same signature :D
 
Right, but polymorphism also includes the CHOICE NOT TO OVERRIDE
 
but in c# you can ?
 
1:01 PM
@Esailija Yes, that is also true.
 
It's for them to behave as they know that they should, independent of what the rest of the group is doing!
 
@Esailija Yes, you can.
 
and that is what redline is trying to do?
 
@Esailija Yes, and the fact JS doesn't do this just like Java upsets him, somehow he feels that means it's not OOP.
 
In JS I have no CHOICE, I have to manually do it
It is OOP
I don't think it's not without it
 
1:02 PM
is this feature much used in C# and how does it translate to java then
 
But why wouldn't you want that?
 
Because you don't need it?
 
@Esailija No, I actually flunked code reviews over seeing it used before. It's frowned upon and considered a design mistake often.
 
It's used ALL the time...overriding is actually used less often than not in my experiences
 
I'd like a unicorn, but I'm not going to attach a horn to a pony to get one, it's not worth it.
 
1:02 PM
but why not
 
@redline why cannot you just use different method name in this case
 
your daughter doens't k now the difference and it makes her happy
because
why if i want to have class B and C derived from A
class B overrides, class C does not
then have an array of A
 
You don't have to override.
 
Exactly.
Why are people thinking you always have to?
 
No, that was to you :P
 
1:04 PM
This is about the CHOICE.
 
In languages like Java, C would just not override A's method, and it would solve the issue.
 
Give us a concrete example when you want an object to have 2 different functions, by the same name, that get called at different times?
 
I'm sure I could go find some old C# code that does it somewhere but that requires way too much effort
 
If I have a list of animals, and you call 'speak' on all of them, the only acceptable behavior is for each animal's override to be called, and if none exists only then call animal's
 
I am just mind boggled that you don't find that to be useful...it's a founding concept in other langauges
 
1:05 PM
This is polymorphism.
 
Which languages?
 
@redline No, it's not, it doesn't even exist in a lot of other languages.
 
Well it exists in the important ones
 
Which ones?
 
"important ones"
 
1:06 PM
Java, C++, and C#
has a majority of this
 
Not sure if trolling or...
 
No, I understand the irony
but if look at those languages
and please for the love of god, put performance aside for a second
those languages build giant things
 
@redline Java doesn't have it, I disagree with it being useless, there is one reason to use it.
 
large libraries that make JS look like crap
 
There is exactly one use case for this sort of behavior.
 
1:08 PM
and that's because they have classical inheritance
 
Which is why it made its way into the language to begin with
> it allows for something like return type covariance in a language that does not have such a feature.
 
code obfuscation contests?
;p
 
That's the only reason it's in the language
 
I love prototypes, and its very simple and easy, but classical inheritance is by far the best design pattern IMO
 
It gives you return type covariance, in JavaScript that's not even an issue
 
@redline There is no such thing as a 'best' design pattern. Design patterns are to solve different problems. Hiding, is a language feature in C# only to solve a problem (return type covariance) that javascript does not have , it would be pointless in JavaScript.
 
@FlorianMargaine I LOLed
But it still has other useful implications
I cannot believe there are people who call themselves coders asking me why you wouldn't want to override a method all the time...I find that absurd.
 
Good Afternoon All
 
@redline I told you what the answer is, it solves a problem that does not exist to begin with in JavaScript. Wanting to do this in JavaScript is stupid.
 
Then you are misinterpreting my intentions.
 
1:12 PM
0
Q: random reason on refresh

Kev HopwoodI am editing the sidebar widgets and have added one for users who are not logged in or registered. the widget requests that users register or login and I am wanting to add a random reason (quote) as to why they should join which will change after every reload of the page. I have chosen to use th...

 
@redline No, you are abusing language features in C#, and don't understand core concepts in JavaScript.
 
@redline I can't believe you call yourself a coder when you think that there is only one solution to a problem, and that all others are stupid.
 
I don't think anything is wrong with JavaScript, I just made something that I personally feel makes building large libraries easier. Simple as that. Everyone seems to think this means I believe JS is broken or that prototypes are stupid.
 
@redline That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying method hiding solves a problem that does not exist to begin with in JavaScript
 
We've been fairly reasonable with our critique and discussion with you. There's no need to call us absurd.
 
1:13 PM
@phenomnomnominal You've been rude :P
 
You can build whatever kind of a tool you want. I could make a transcompiler that uses spanish keywords instead of english if i really wanted to...
 
fairly!
I'm angsty at the best of times, I've been pretty good!
 
@redline If you'd like to argue over that, convince Eric Lippert, don't convince me, he said return method covariance is pretty much the only good reason to use it in C#. What you're doing is language abuse.
 
That's what everyone said when C++ came out.
 
That's not true, and is a bad argument anyway
 
1:15 PM
That is true
People thought C++ was abusing C
 
@redline you should know better than "People Thought"
 
lol
 
We're not talking about a language over another language. We're talking about you wanting a specific feature in JavaScript that only exists in C# to fix a problem JavaScript never has to deal with.
 
That's fine. I will continue to disagree.
 
@redline Don't disagree with me disagree with Eric.
 
1:17 PM
Having not read the last 200 or so messages, is the discussion about why something like this is useful?
 
I can define objects and prototypes when I want, and classes when I need something a little more robust and can take a performance hit on instantiation. You keep writing native JavaScript. I'll finish 10 websites by the time you finish 1.
 
Man, I'm glad I wasn't in the argument polite discussion if this is the conclusion.
 
@Zirak, not really an argument
 
Everyone is under the impression that you need to use a jTypes class all the time. It is simply for a large set of classes.
 
@Gidon Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
1:18 PM
@redline We're arguing on two different things here. First, I'm saying that what you're suggesting would be pointless in JavaScript because it exists to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the language to begin with. Second, what you're suggesting makes absolutely zero sense in JS, because it's a dynamic language.
 
With very complicated functionality, where a C# approach would have been easier from a design and maintainability perspective.
 
Hi @Benjamin, how are you? do you remember my question from last week about angular?
 
Plus, there are many many coders migrating from these hard-typed langauges to JS, and this will make their transition easier.
 
@redline What you're suggesting is not a C# approach, you don't seem to understand that. Hiding has very specific use cases, and those use cases are in a domain of problems that does not even exist in JavaScript as a dynamic languages.
 
Lets see what @CapricaSix feels i should do with this debate
 
1:20 PM
No it won't, it will prevent them from ever using JS properly.
 
Then that is their fault
 
@redline This is not about jTypes, it's about method hiding in general. I'm cool with your library, like I said, just because I don't like it doesn't mean it's not useful. The method hiding thing is fundamental though. While the usefulness of your library is subjective, this is not.
 
If one wants to be lazy, so be it
 
!!/should i get involved in the debate between phenomnomnominal and redline or should i mind my own fuc*ing business
 
@Connor That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.
@Connor That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.
 
1:21 PM
Okay, forget jTypes
 
@redline The way you approach method hiding is nothing short of a mistake, it's not subjective, it's a basic misunderstanding of how OOP should work in C#.
 
let's talk method hiding, just as an idea
 
This is exhausting
 
so you're telling me that method hiding is a bad design pattern?
@phenomnomnominal well there's not much else to chat about so why not
 
@redline I'm telling you the domain of problems method hiding solves does not exist in JavaScript because it mostly solves return type covariance.
 
1:22 PM
boobs.
 
!!bitch
 
@Connor What's there to bitch about, as long as I have you...
 
@redline That said, it's fairly easy to implement in JS, just like you did in your library.
 
Well it's 1.30am here, and I would rather be working on my site/sleeping
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I understand that, but you really don't find that as a useful thing in JS?
 
1:22 PM
@redline However, since JS is a dynamic language, using hiding, even as abuse (since JS does not have this sort of return type covariance issues) makes no sense anyway. Since that goes against what a dynamic language even is.
 
!!should i get involved in the debate between phenomnomnominal and redline or mind my own fuc*ing business
 
@Connor That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.
 
@redline No, I think attempting to do that is harmful in JS. I think using it often is a bad design pattern in C# except for specific cases.
 
@Connor remove the /
 
@Connor You should get involved in the debate between phenomnomnominal and redline
 
1:24 PM
Ok wait, now we are talking about two different things again.
 
@FlorianMargaine Thanks for that, she was stepping on egg shells then
!!why
 
Let's stay on topic here. Are we talking C# or JS now.
 
@Connor That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.
 
Cause in C#, I think you are wrong.
 
@redline JS, in C# you'll just have to read Eric's blog and trust a language designer's word over mine.
 
1:26 PM
I have seen more C# than any other language. I've seen exceptional C#, horrible C#, everything inbetween. Everyone always uses both override and new in a very equal distribution in my experiences.
There are plenty of times where you don't want to override a method and it's perfectly good design. Not to mention, you can still call the base method even if you didn't override.
You can even seal it if you would like (final).
So...they invented the final/sealed modifier cause hiding is a bad design pattern?
the guys who designed the language itself...put a modifier...for bad design
virtual/override/sealed is about having options...which is why jTypes gives you in JS, more options for an alternative design pattern to make maintaining and working on large teams easier...I witnessed it firsthand
 
0.o You CANT teach PORK
 
@FlorianMargaine This is something I make very often, how would you do it? jsfiddle.net/xVQyd/2
 
I showed jTypes to my boss, he showed it to the entire team, everyone started using it, and our JS development was instantly better in terms of organization, maintaing the code, working together, ect.
 
That's suggests something was very wrong in the first place.
 
1:31 PM
Hahah
jTypes seems like bloat if you ask me
 
@phenomnomnominal you're probably right
@phenomnomnominal but that's not a problem that was fixable with a single tool
@phenomnomnominal a lot of JS developers at real companies have no idea WTF they are doing
 
You basically said, here, now we don't need to use JS at all!
 
Anybody here got Instagram?
 
@JonKoops with simple functions.
 
@phenomnomnominal at least doing it this way I never came across some idiot who forget to implement something or named something wrong...
 
1:32 PM
forEach acceps a second argument btw, look it up on mdn
 
(item, index, array)
 
@phenomnomnominal but that's not a problem that was fixable without* a single tool
 
I said forEach, not the callback function it has as first argument
 
@phenomnomnominal cause that would have required way more time to teach them
 
1:33 PM
@FlorianMargaine Nice, didn't know that
 
ooh
 
@phenomnomnominal and still would have made it more difficult
 
Now I can drop bind
In vanilla JS how do you guys loop over a NodeList?
 
This is stupid, I'm tired and I don't care anymore
Array.prototype.forEach.call(myNodeList, ...
 
@JonKoops [].forEach.call(nodeList, )
@SomeKittens fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/… your fiance has a tree in her hair
 
1:35 PM
@phenomnomnominal Nice, was just wondering if someone had a smaller version.
 
@redline That I can agree with.
 
exactly, thank you
I have been saying all along, there is more to coding than performance
my boss wants something that works and works now
 
posted on June 09, 2013

var gaJsHost = (("https:" == document.location.protocol) ? "https://ssl." : "http://www."); document.write(unescape("%3Cscript src='" + gaJsHost + "google-analytics.com/ga.js' type='text/javascript'%3E%3C/script%3E")); try { var pageTracker = _gat._getTracker("UA-3727700-1"); pageTracker._trackPageview(); } catch(err) {} Oh man! You geeks are the best. Please help us hit 750 buyers today.

 
I wonder why they made it so difficult to manipulate the NodeList
 
and makes the team work fast, plain and simple
 
1:36 PM
@redline You're not listening to what I'm saying, it's in C# to solve a problem that does not exist to begin with in C#
 
he doesn't care if you're raping JS
 
Yeah, there's understanding the language you are using.
 
This.
 
@redline I suggest you embrace how JS works, not work against it.
 
1:37 PM
he just wants the application done so we can move onto the next one and have the lowest # of bugs
I have embraced JS just fine
 
@phenomnomnominal grooveshark.com/s/… YOU'RE GONNA LISTEN AND YOU'RE GONNA LIKE IT
 
you all assume that since I made jTypes i know nothing of javascript
 
You embraced a framework just fine
 
@JonKoops The people who built the language and the people who built the DOM API were different people, the DOM API was built by people who did not understand how JS works initially, and it stuck.
 
but making jTypes required most of the hardest parts of JS
 
1:37 PM
@redline No, we assume you don't understand how JS works because of your opinions, not because of jTypes... well, maybe a little.
 
So you introduce 20kb of code?
 
to solve a problem really quick and get back to work, yes
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, but they should make it easier.
Maybe a new api?
 
@Gacnt, no and no
 
@JonKoops I'm going to get hate for this, but jQuery is that API :P
 
1:38 PM
and if it makes you work faster, then perhaps YOUR performance is more important than the JS performance...especially to your boss
 
@phenomnomnominal Love me
 
@JonKoops In new browsers, it's not that bad, you just convert that NodeList to an array.
 
you are all looking at this as just a single person using it, not from a business perspective at all
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I agree
 
DOM Api I don't find is that bad to traverse, but you have to write a LOT of code to accomplish what you need
 
1:39 PM
We're look at it from a code quality and maintainability perspective.
 
@redline This is a room full of professionals that use JavaScript as a first language, and we're telling you that your opinions shows very basic lack of understanding of core language principles.
 
AHAHAHAHA...maintainability?
now that's funny
 
I understand the core principals just fine
 
Because when one of us turns up and has to understand your fucked up proprietary library, we will say "FUCK THIS", and start from scratch.
 
1:39 PM
if i was making a game engine, i wouldn't touch jTypes
i know how to use the language just fine
 
No, you really don't. Just because you know the syntax doesn't mean you understand the language.
 
i know all the disadvantages of jTypes, believe me, everyone loves to bring them up again and again
but i still feel it has many advantages that you all completely ignore
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It would be nice if they took an example of JQuery's DOM apis
 
querySelector is pretty nice
 
1:41 PM
@JonKoops They do, all the time, stuff gets adopted into the spec :)
 
@FlorianMargaine I see, good to have perspective.
 
This argument stopped being constructive half an hour ago and I have work to focus on. Later. @redline I strongly suggest you start reading actual JS code and see how stuff is really done. This is a room full of professionals telling you you're using the language wrong, I suggest you take that into consideration. That said, your opinion is still welcome.
 
@JonKoops document.querySelectorAll?
 
@phenomnomnominal you're just pissed about the C# syntax, any definition format could be applied, stop whining about that again and again, i offered to add other formats, but you wouldn't care either way so i won't waste my time
 
@phenomnomnominal document.querySelector and document.querySelectorAll, yes
 
1:42 PM
Go go gallery mode!
 
Yes, I'm just pissed about the syntax.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well I appreciate your input but I will continue to disagree.
 
@redline you're welcome to do that.
 
Too long right?
 
@JonKoops, chrome and ff alias $ to qsa
 
1:43 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum "professionals" are wrong plenty of times, I will take my chances
 
or is it $$?
 
var $ = document.querySelectorAll; MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH
 
but i do appreciate your input
 
You can't teach stupid :( @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
It's not about stupid vs smart
It's opinion.
 
1:44 PM
Don't you ever correct me in public :<
 
i highly doubt someone stupid could have made CH in JS
 
Save it for the bedroom :)
 
@phenomnomnominal nope, qs. qsa is $$
 
@Gacnt I will fuck you up
 
LOL
 
1:44 PM
@redline ch?
 
@FlorianMargaine Is that standard?
 
classical inheritance, meant for an I there...have no idea how i hit H
 
Awwww man.
 
chrome console and firebug console provide this api, it's all
they also provide $0 and lots of other stuff
 
1:45 PM
Ah well
 
and i was responding to @Gacnt
sorry for the confusion
still new to this chat here
 
That I knew
 
@redline don't worry about @Gacnt, he's pretty stupid himself.
 
Are there any changes to NodeList in DOM4?
 
lol
 
1:46 PM
pardon me, pretty & stupid.
 
i have no problem with people disagreeing with me...i like arguments, that's how you learn
 
LOL
 
but i don't appreciate being called stupid
 
@redline Very true
 
@redline You're incredibly smart, and beautiful
 
1:47 PM
@redline the problem isn't with classical inheritance, did you look at my answer? I wrote a whole answer saying how useful it can be, the problem is with your (mis) understanding of it.
Out
@redline Yeah, this room is like that, don't take it personally :)
 
user1596138
!!/fuckable 18
 
@Jhawinsss A person that age can shag down to 16, and is the lower limit of a person of 29 years
 
@redline We love you man, have a cookie.
 
user1596138
Sweet.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum it was nice talking with you
 
user1596138
1:48 PM
Wait that's wrong.
 
@phenomnomnominal you as well
i will see you all later, thanks for your time
 
user1596138
!!/eval 29/2+7
 
@redline meh, honestly I just hope you learned something, I don't mean to come off as arrogant but the position you argued is basically against what dynamic languages are all about. Nice conversation, Good luck :)
 
@Jhawinsss 21.5
 
user1596138
@Zirak she did the math wrong.
 
1:49 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum i enjoy talking about this, message me on here anytime you would like to talk further...thanks
 
@Jhawinsss what? no
 
user1596138
She said someone 29 can shag down to 18. But 29/2+7 is 21.5
 
14k page views on first day, I happy somewhat successful launch, not a large demographic but more than I first anticipated, I wonder if it will die, or get bigger when the game actually goes live (still in beta)
 
@Jhawinsss maybe she is tring to make it possible for you? ever thought of that?
 
Now that I'm here
 
1:51 PM
@Jhawinsss oh my bad, i thought you meant it did eval 29/2+7 wrong
 
You guys know any good JavaScript backend frameworks?
 
@JonKoops node.js
 
express
 
Basic ORM, templates, RESTFull API
 
express, is the most popular i think, with jade
 
1:53 PM
Express 3, Node.js
 
I was looking into Sails.js (balderdashy.github.io/sails) which is based on express
 
Express is not what he means as a framework
@JonKoops No it's not, sails isn't based on express... it's pretty good though
 
Express 3, Node.js
 
Wait, nvm, apparently it is and they switched, sorry my bad
 
"Main: Express 3.x has been integrated."
 
1:54 PM
Express 3.0, node.php
 
@JonKoops Yeah, just saw that, that's new :) I like Sails
 
there's a great framework in nodejs
it's called tartempion
 
I need to build a simple Event organisation app, I think I'm going with sails.
 
user1596138
@Connor Could be. I've gone to 24 and that's the highest I want right now though ;).
 
@FlorianMargaine anonymous?
 
user1596138
1:55 PM
!!fuckable 29
 
user1596138
!!fuckable 18
 
@Jhawinsss A person that age can shag down to 21.5, and is the lower limit of a person of 51 years
@Jhawinsss A person that age can shag down to 16, and is the lower limit of a person of 29 years
 
@JonKoops Keep us updated, I'm more familiar with TowerJS and railwayJS, but sails looks like a better choice now. Let me know how it goes
 
user1596138
See what I meant now?
 
1:56 PM
@FlorianMargaine yeoman, sorry bro.
 
!!/tell Jhawinsss fuckable 89
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Will do, I'll post a link when the project is finished.
 
@Jhawinsss A person that age can shag down to 51.5, and is the lower limit of a person of 171 years
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what?
 
1:56 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah ive heard of that, by google right?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Tower.js is on my list too by the way.
 

« first day (967 days earlier)      last day (3987 days later) »