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7:00 PM
lol how can you -1 zombies!!
 
Ab
@Raynos can u check the files.rar
 
hm from what I can find on the webs, zynga seems to pay quite good
 
link
@IvoWetzel what is quite good?
40k ?
 
Wait what, youve had an interview and havnt asked for the salary yet?
80k euro a year?
 
7:02 PM
$ that is
 
@Raynos I still have one more interview with the US guys if everything goes well
they want to check back you know :)
 
Ab
@Raynos do u have the files?
 
@Ab yes
@IvoWetzel 80k$ a year? as a baseline salary?
 
from what I can find, that's all for "developers" seniors range way higher
but then again, it's stuff on the interwebz
 
7:05 PM
oh. I thought that was your starting salary :P
 
nice $80k is a good amt
 
yes, US salary rates are generally much higher than most european rates (including conversion)
 
Ab
congrats @IvoWetzel
 
guys...
 
Ab
i'll be moving on to Sharepoint dev role
 
7:06 PM
I still haven't gotten the job :P
 
@Ab NOooooooOOOOooOOOooo
 
lol god that would suck.. we have alot of sharepoint "devs" here who proudly call themselves "Webmasters"
 
Ab
@Nathan i'm loosing my current job. but happy to go back to London and hoping to finalize on the SP role
 
@ircmaxell are you kidding me. I would say 40$k is a generous starting salary
 
well good luck then @Ab whatever pays the bills
 
Ab
7:08 PM
@Loktar i found SP quite easier to deal with if one has sound knowledge of IIS and windows admin
 
@Ab too bad. If you have a .NET background maybe SharePoint will be good. I loathe it. I hope it works out well for you.
 
35k€ seems to be average around here
 
wow..
 
That's still a ton of money
 
I cant leave the gov
pay is much less
sucks to be trapped
 
Ab
7:09 PM
i'm hoping so. I definitely struggled here with loads of classic asp and now the JS Canvas project
they never allowed real dotnet to come on
 
Highest I have seen here outside of the government was 65k
and that was for a sr. web dev position
 
@Loktar what do you mean by "here"?
 
Omaha area
 
Ab
i'll be a leech..a junior developer
still early days as programmer
 
Heh. ASP.NET is defiantly better, but sharepoint, ew!
JS and canvas is a nice starting area
 
Ab
7:11 PM
i'm paid 25k GBP and for that i ..errrr.
 
I would love to have a job doing js and canvas
 
25k gbp is a good starting salary
 
I just showed the devs what canvas was the other day :(
 
yes, I'm in more or less the same boat; I love my home town and family, but there aren't a lot of hot dev jobs in Alaska.
 
im being payed 18k
 
Ab
7:11 PM
i agree as long as things are progressive.
@Raynos really?
 
yes
 
@Raynos I thought you were a student?
 
placement student
 
Ab
well i dont much pay attention to pay packet
 
I work fulltime for 6 months now
 
Ab
7:12 PM
u definitely are guru
 
no
im "average"
Actaully probably slightly above "average". But thats being selfish!
 
Ab
i'm in JS for just over 3 weeks now
 
LOL @Raynos I work with 2 other devs.. I have had to teach them everything from What FTP is, to what Jquery is, to the difference between jquery/javascript...
they make 78k a year
in my exp you are above avg by far
 
hi again :)
 
-.-
my standards are different
im average. Everyone else is just either shit or incompetant :P
 
Ab
7:14 PM
I did walk across lot of technologies..ruby onrails, php, java and now .net/dynamics crm/sharepoint
 
But I understand its important to not get a big head
because then you stop learning
 
No offence @MylesGray
@Ab try some node.js Its like php/apache but all javascript. And a bit more low level api
 
In my company, nobody on the "frontier" can be worth anything, but people at the corporate headquarters (Arizona) are obviously valuable and get high and mighty job titles and pay.
 
how to convert this:
if (document.getElementById("board").rows[start.rows].cells[start.cols].innerText=="end") {
to jquery?
 
Ab
interestingly i was taken as SP developer/.net but hardly worked on anything significant.
 
7:15 PM
I personally hate .Net but am forced to work in it daily.
we are stuck on 2.0
 
Ab
i'm not giving up on Js.
 
$($("board")[0].rows[start.rows].cells[start.cols]).text("end")
@Loktar \o/ we are stuck on 2.0 aswell. I was refactoring some IE only asp code today :D
 
Ab
underscore.js looked fascinating and yes i would look at node.js v.soon
 
the markup thats generated just makes me cringe
 
They didnt use any javascript just lots of inline c# in the .asp file
 
7:16 PM
@Loktar I was forced to get an MCPD in .NET last year because some manager thought it sounded cool. Tell me about it.
 
well hey @Nathan at least that can net you jobs pretty easily
 
Ab
@Nathan that was funny
 
Those certs arent easy from what Ive heard
 
Ab
i agree
 
Yeah, it was kind of difficult.
The second worst part is it doesn't help me get any better job in this town.
 
7:17 PM
speaking of .net do any of your guys other devs use the design mode in visual studio?
 
Ab
@Raynos r u looking at the code
not me
 
I had a hard time breaking our new dev of that.. dragging everything in..
 
The worst part is that ASPX.net Web Forms is a huge wrongheaded fundamentally bad mistake and even MS is slowly moving away from it.
 
@Raynos Well, with no experience maybe
 
Ab
yes
 
7:18 PM
but for an average junior developer where I live, starting salary is about $70k to $90k.
Senior developers start at around $99k and go up to $130k + depending on experience
 
Ab
that's US
 
big city US
 
New York area (1 hour outside to be exact)
 
@Ab setting up my IDE. Refactoring / rewriting your code. Gimme a couple of hours
@Loktar fuck the design mode. its for people who cant code
 
Ab
i have used eclipse that i set up 2 days back..isn't so bad
and i found ready to use plugin for JSTestDriver
 
7:21 PM
@Nathan you use webforms. use the .net mvc 2 framework
@ircmaxell with no experience what? oh fair enough. I guess @IvoWetzel has experience
 
with with no experience
 
@Raynos yes, mvc2 looks like it might not suck, but the MCPD certification (last year at least) was all about Doing It Wrong With Webforms.
 
but its no corporate experience
 
right
 
@Ab I use webstorm :)
 
Ab
7:22 PM
u suggested that to me
 
@Raynos lol I agree, "Its like VB6 for the web"
@ircmaxell wow... 99k
 
Ab
i did have that installed yesterday..but i couldn't get he unit test plugin to work
 
cost of living is much higher though
 
MUCH
50k per year where I am is considered the boundry of poverty level...
 
Ab
both unittest plugins that were listed in webstorm as available didnt work
 
7:23 PM
so I started a giant discussion about salaries
 
yeah I couldnt even imagine living there
 
Ab
then gave up and came back to eclipse
 
@Ab unit test plugin? compile it and run it
50k?
we run on 25k$ as a minimum
london runs on 25k$ as a minimum. (its not livable at that cost ._. london is expensive)
 
Ab
@Raynos if u see the file>settings>plugins>available plugins.... JSTestDriver is listed
 
I couldn't get an answer in meta, does anyone know how to view any of your own posts that have been flagged?
 
7:24 PM
@Ab Im not going to use such a plugin in :P
@jon3laze ask a mod. just ding @NickCraver. He's a mod
 
nice thanks
 
Ab
@Raynos hehe i was only looking for short cut. there's always a trap
 
@Ab dont bother unit testing without rewriting it
 
Ab
hmm
 
Need to download webstorm again -.-
 
7:26 PM
@Raynos: I don't think that's good advice. Rewrite it in steps and write the UT's for those steps. But you don't need to do it all at once...
 
Ab
when in london, i used to attend london ajax user group meetings
 
I need to start doing unit testing. I pretty much just got us setup with versioning here, I think the devs heads would explode if I tried to implement unit testing as well..
 
@ircmaxell true. I didnt mean rewriting it all
 
Ab
its managed by Dylan from Dojo fame
 
@Loktar unit testing isnt too bad for your own code
 
7:27 PM
fair enough
 
@Raynos what do you guys use there for unit testing .net? (sorry for the .net discussion in the js chat)
 
how to get value of table cell by tr index and td index in jquery?
 
@Loktar we dont. I work on the internal legacy code dated bacck to 2001
 
Ab
@Raynos do u mean classic asp?
 
ah ok
 
7:30 PM
@Ab no its asp.net
 
Ab
omg..should be 1.1
 
@Loktar some of the new code thats been done from scratch has unit tests from the inbuild stuff in vs2010. never used it
 
Ab
2001...?
 
@Ab asp.net 2.0 actaully we upgraded in 2005
 
Ab
we do .net development for ecommerce projects...infact one of the lead contributor acts freelancer for us
pretty well wrtten code. met him last week and he is just 25
 
7:33 PM
eah thats possible
If possible I want to get a startup going in 18 months. I need to get more competant
 
Ab
same here
but this year
 
I dont think its do-able for me.
Your going to need a good team. And you need to be good,
 
What kind of startup?
 
Ab
i'll be in india next month and again in july to finalize on setting up team
 
@ab want me to look at the after or before refactoring code?
 
Ab
7:36 PM
well software dev and IT infrastructure management
yes
 
@Ab your not the lead are you?
 
Ab
that was what i started off at 4 today
i'm junior dev but i've loads of exp as product manager and system admin
its only that i came to uk for masters. and now keep to slog as developer for a while
infact i learnt CRM and SP in aug-sep and now see good options with JS#
 
@Ab good luck
 
Ab
@Raynos thanks.
just the unit tests and i'm off this dragging project
any one tried URIZ JS library
i found that interesting.. its pronounced ur eyez
 
@Ab no hits for "uriz js library"
 
7:47 PM
Ok, I need someone to explain to my mentally retarded brain how to use Chrome JS debugger :(
 
Ab
hehe , i must be day dreaming.. i lost the link
i'll share later
 
I can't even figure out how to open it, I see tutorials saying to press "ALT+U" to open the JS debugger, but that doesn't do anything (seemingly)
 
@malon ctrl+shift+j, type console.dir(window) in the console. Play around with your globals. Have fun
 
HAHA yesssssssss thaaaank you
 
Ab
@Raynos comment on it later. :p after ur done helping me with the code
 
7:59 PM
Ahh. you dont use any utility libaries >_< I have to write it in raw code
 
I got a radio input field, when you click, it should alert the value="1" of this radio input, but its giving me an empty alert
	$('.ownStar').live('click', function(){
	alert( $(this).val() );
	});
 
@Ab i cant be bothered to recode it. Ill go through and comment on any bad code
 
Ab
@Raynos anything is fine
:)
 
simple js-stuff ?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4961543/keydown-pressed-for-left-does-not-update-for-keyup
 
Ab
now that u have had a glance at it, suggest me on unit testing
the requirement says ....pl include a reasonable set of unit test
@Raynos frankly i have no idea of unit testing. if u can see i moved any occurrence of element ids to draw method.
 
8:10 PM
@PhilippeHarewood evt.>K<eyCode capital K
 
Ab
@Raynos do u have gmail id
 
lol.. wtf code? url = doc.Replace("%20"," ")
 
Ab
i'd add that to allow uploads to the google sites
 
had to teach the dev about Uri.UnescapeDataString
I was like well what if another character is encoded? "just add it to the replace"...
I should get them on SO, but they dont really like programming. I think they could learn alot.
 
8:18 PM
goodness I thought of using HttpUtility.UrlDecode actually
my point was the dev was going to have a replace for every encoded character type..
thanks @david ill update the code
anyone know of any good JS irc chat rooms?
i idle in irc all day in a few rooms might as well add some js ones to the list
 
@IvoWetzel Thanks why does jquery docs have it as lowercase ?
 
@Loktar the node.js room ofc
@Ab I picked up on some comments. Where do you want it uploaded
 
@Raynos confused
 
@MylesGray it was a joke. No offence
 
I didn't even see the joke :P
slinked off for food
 
8:32 PM
The joke was theres lots of shit and incompetant developers around :p
 
:-D
tbf I'm not really a dev yet - still in uni - year out isn't until september
 
and you think getting out of uni will make you one?
 
@IvoWetzel If i go through and remove all references to w3schools.com from stackoverflow are people going to frown on that?
@MylesGray uni doesnt teach much. Learned more in the last 6 months on placement
 
write CODE
 
@Raynos I totally agree my lecturers are clearly staying one lesson ahead on W3SCHOOLS! than everyone else
W3Schools is their reccommended resource
 
8:38 PM
...
 
it is "indispensable"... -_-
 
so right now you're learning a negative amount of knowledge each day?
 
:D
 
@IvoWetzel My brain is being raped with bad practises and code
 
That's what happens when I open up SO questions
 
8:43 PM
Emailed my course tutor about it so he said I could take the days off with those lectures as long as I email in the practicals completed, so I can practise for my CCNA on those days :D
 
What's wrong with W3Schools?
 
@SpencerRuport seriously? It's just doing it wrong. It's simply bad tutorials, bad advice, bad practices
 
user1385191
their code snippets tend to be really dated
 
most importantly, they are often outright wrong
 
user1385191
w3schools isn't as terrible as it's being portrayed. Their language object reference isn't half bad I find
 
8:47 PM
reminds me of a dylan moran quote...
 
it IS as bad as it's being portrayed :(
 
"I'm just saying if you took a broom, dipped it in motor oil, shoved the other end up my arse, put me on a trampoline in a lift and I would write better code on the walls"
 
oh. I dunno, I usually recommend noobs go check it out. I think if I start getting into "best practices" before they even know what an HTML tag is their eyes start to glaze over and they're completely lost before they've even started.
 
@SpencerRuport you should always recommend noobs good resources, bad practises used from the start are the hardest to get rid of
 
It says that the var keyword is optional, and makes no difference...
 
8:50 PM
Yeah but it's kind of a lost cause. Bad practices today were considered good practices 4 years ago.
 
If you want a language reference that 'isn't half bad' use the spec: ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm
 
@MattMcDonald what do you mean?
@SpencerRuport recommend html dog instead. I just tell them look this is a HTMLElement
 
user1385191
if I want to dig up a function really quick, I can go to w3schools and get a list of parameters
 
user1385191
js documentations are really fragmented aside form mozilla's dev center, which I'm just getting into
 
If i want to dig up a function, I open ECMA-262.pdf and get a list of parameters
 
8:52 PM
@MattMcDonald seriously? :\ You want to know anything about js then "searchstring mdc" in google
 
user1385191
danke
 
@david thats a pain to read if your not used to it. You have to say its simply user unfriendly
Thats like saying, you want to know what HTML is. Go to w3.org and read the damned spec!
(You should read the damned spec!)
 
user1385191
I've been wondering for a while if there are any good js tweening engines like in as3
 
user1385191
(please don't mention jQuery)
 
@Raynos I wouldn't exactly call the spec a pain to read :S
 
8:54 PM
@IvoWetzel Thanks I was so blind with that one
 
@david we're not like the other guys. Specs are hard to read when your new to these things. Once a spec is easy to read your good enough to not need the spec anymore.
@MattMcDonald why would you want to tween?
 
user1385191
to do something like this
 
@MattMcDonald make it move?
Look at rapheal.js
 
@MattMcDonald what am I looking at?
 
user1385191
8:56 PM
well that's what tweening is. it's animating a value like I did there
 
user1385191
oh right, the svg framework. I saw a talk on that at FITC not too long ago.
 
all I see is a bunch of green boxes that do nothing.
 
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Firebug
Web Developement Evolved
 
user1385191
I mocked up a quick animate function without testing in any browsers other than firefox
 
oh ok. i'm in chrome
 
8:58 PM
@MattMcDonald you knkow it doesnt work in chrome right? Make it work in webket
 
He does now :P
Why the jQuery aversion?
 
just use jquery.animate :D
 
user1385191
I used jQuery on a web app a while back
 

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