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4:00 PM
@JayIsTooCommon pff… Chris? no way
 
Anonymous
yeah he doesn't do much teasing tbf, a bit full on
 
Q: Why is AsyncInterop\Loop\Driver an abstract class instead of an interface?
 
user895378
^ +1 to that question
 
@m6w6 So it can have the state functionality built into it.
Morning
 
Anonymous
o/
 
4:06 PM
@Trowski uh, well, how'bout making that an extra class or even trait
these are like 6 LOC
 
@m6w6 is there any advantage to having it an interface?
 
@bwoebi Enforcing a parent class often causes headaches, while an interface can easily be implemented
 
@rdlowrey gist.github.com/rdlowrey/… won't work on Amp v2, as Success doesn't accept a promise as value.
 
@m6w6 in what way?
 
@littlepootis nothing on reddit qualifies as opportunity
 
@m6w6 In general I completely agree, but in this case I'm not sure it makes much difference.
 
@JoeWatkins here are traceroutes from here to each, in case that's useful in some way gist.github.com/pcrov/a32fa7f90b0b9385d2fa3c4565f02794
 
I can't imagine the need to extend a class to implement a Driver.
@kelunik @bwoebi Is there a reason the driver instance is set to null here? github.com/async-interop/event-loop/blob/master/src/…
 
@JoeWatkins Sense of what?
 
4:10 PM
@bwoebi Say, you've already got a loop implementation that is already stuck in a class hirarchy, but (magically) already provides the required API, you'd have a problem with extending the abstract class, but could easily create a child class implementing the interface...
 
@m6w6 that'd be quite weird in this case
And even then, you can easily decorate
 
You can do everything (tm), but what's less work
is it really worth the 6 LOC?
 
@LeviMorrison different ips are non-responsive for different people
 
Weird.
 
jeez, looks like github is dead again
 
4:12 PM
@JoeWatkins Are they routed over different AS?
 
I have 3 of 4 VMs provisioned with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
 
@m6w6 Composition > Inheritance. Instead of bundling two loops into one, better have a separate proxy object.
 
@bwoebi AS ?
 
@LeviMorrison Why 14.04, not 16.04?
 
@JoeWatkins autonomous system
 
user895378
4:12 PM
@kelunik yeah I realized that ... already updated
 
@bwoebi oh not sure what that is
 
user895378
I just can't modify the gist because github is giving me the pink unicorn of sadness :(
 
@kelunik ACK, but just because of these 6 LOC of the registry implementation?
 
@m6w6 And some more with an open PR then.
 
@JayIsTooCommon github is down. where is he pr with the fix?
 
Anonymous
4:13 PM
@PeeHaa status.github.com they don't even know yet. Did you see my comment btw? I found out why it failed
 
@kelunik I don't have that option unless I want to run a VM inside another VM...
 
@m6w6 Why not? I think it's the thing why abstract class exists.
 
Still, I think it would be benficial to provide an interface addtitionally to the default abstract
 
if anyone is bored over the weekend, Jeeves (I) could use !!traceroute ...
 
@JoeWatkins uh … look it up, cannot explain it in a few simple words
 
4:14 PM
@m6w6 What for?
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins !!issue :D
 
@bwoebi oh same ISP
 
@kelunik Don't think I really have a need for a stats page on my machine
 
Anonymous
right, come on boy @Jeeves don't let me down
 
@JayIsTooCommon You have found her, now go and get her.
 
4:15 PM
@JoeWatkins ISP, yes, but does the ISP provide 2 AS which are each routed differently?
 
@bwoebi am I wrong to assume that means the are ?
I'm not sure, how can I find out ?
 
Who wants to set up OpenGrok on some crappy VMs for room 11 use?
4
 
@PeeHaa No need, but could be run.
 
@JayIsTooCommon Just saw your message. What is the problem bruv?
 
I also want to track some Amp things with it.
 
Anonymous
4:15 PM
@PeeHaa well sista, i'm not very good at PHP
 
That much was clear yes
Is it obvious?
/me checks code again
 
Anonymous
He did notice the status change, but posted it in the Jeeves Playground
 
hahhahaa
debug stuff?
 
Anonymous
I didn't make it multi-room compatible :P
 
lolz
 
4:16 PM
@LeviMorrison if nobody does it by next week, I'll do it ...
 
@JoeWatkins compare traceroutes
 
they're not giving me useful information locally
 
major: Major service outage as of 2017-01-13T16:14:40Z
 
just lots of ...
and then nothing ...
 
\o/
 
Anonymous
4:17 PM
YES!
 
Anonymous
@Jeeves I love you
 
@JayIsTooCommon I love you too :-)
 
good boyua
 
@JoeWatkins as far as I see, traffic to 86.178.168.218 just gets blackholed here
 
I have 4 VMs provisioned (well, 1 is still pending). There are 2 small VMs and 2 comparatively larger VMs. They are in two different datacenters; one small and one larger in each.
The plan is for the 2 larger VMs to actually run OpenGrok and for the 2 smaller VMs to do load balancing and monitoring.
 
4:18 PM
@rdlowrey github broken when I clicked that. I think the code is too awesome or too crappy for github to handle it
 
they do have more than one
3, I think
 
!!should I just say fuck it and start up a game or finish one last thing before the weekend?
 
You should finish one last thing before the weekend.
 
@kelunik Do you depend on the implementation details this abstract provides? Isn't that a bad idea then? Also, you define a semantic interop contract but don't provide a programmable contract? Seems, well, strange...
 
So hopefully when OpenGrok goes down it should keep working on the other until we can get it back online.
 
4:20 PM
joykill
 
@LeviMorrison very excellent ... so long as I only have to install stuff ...
 
@m6w6 An abstract class is a contract. We rely on the functionality, yes, but it's marked final, so that's fine.
We implemented it in the Loop accessor first, but that doesn't work for reasons.
 
@PeeHaa, captains log: today gitamp blew up nearly every hour again
 
Fucking hell...
I didn't want to ask @DaveRandom today because he was in the shit already :)
 
going to restart it 1237612nd time now
 
4:22 PM
Hey @Ekin, felling better?
 
I could implement one of my quick fixes hacks to work around it.
 
@Trucy Hey, thanks, yeah I can walk slightly faster :-)
 
One thing I could do which is worse than horrible, but fast. Is just die if it throws that notice so systemd restarts it automagically
 
@m6w6 Feels like you just want an interface for the interface's sake?
 
@PeeHaa afair systemd tries to restart automagically anyway
but somehow it doesn't do, or maybe I remember it wrong, need to check it
 
4:24 PM
Fuck it. I'm just going to do it. Beats having to do actual debugging :P
@Ekin It never actually dies
 
Alright, go wild :-)
 
It just breaks and stays alive in a horribly broken state
 
It can't be worse than that yeah :P
 
> It can't be worse
Just wait :D
 
lol :D
wait. the last one was: critical ekinhbayar\GitAmp\Client\RequestFailedException: A non-200 response status (504 - Gateway Time-out) was encountered in /opt/gitamp/src/Client/GitAmp.php:45 @PeeHaa
 
4:28 PM
but but ... I thought I blocked it ...
I quit the internet
1 message moved to Trash can
 
@Ekin oh right
makes sesne
12 mins ago, by Jeeves
major: Major service outage as of 2017-01-13T16:14:40Z
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins joe... you're killing me.
 
yeah
 
Weekend. #github @githubstatus
Beer and sleep, fml.
 
@JayIsTooCommon too slow :D
 
4:30 PM
@Ekin Nice that we properly handle that though :P
 
@PeeHaa Indeed ^^
 
OK, on to announcing to the SO that I plan to change jobs… Won't be pleased. See ya!
 
Anonymous
o/
 
4:31 PM
@Ekin when I echo out stuff from a service it's capture by journald automagically right?
 
@kelunik Well, I think I already made clear why an interface is beneficial to a mostly empty abstract class, but maybe I just have a problem understanding what your argument is :)
 
@Leigh eeeeew gpl
 
shrug I had no intention of modifying it.
 
@PeeHaa um, I expect so
 
kk
// Quick fix PH: just die when it doesn't exist and let that systemd guy figure it out
if (!isset($record[0])) {
    echo 'DNSLIB_ERROR: ' . json_encode($record);
    exit;
}
fx it :P
damnit typo
 
4:35 PM
@m6w6 setState / getState is not something that should be in loop. It's has nothing to do with the loop. But it's required there, because there's no other way to have it without memory leaks.
The abstract class ensures every driver provides this exact storage.
 
@JayIsTooCommon @PeeHaa Find your mic
 
@Jeeves I've been busy doing actual work today. What is your excuse?
 
@PeeHaa 42
 
LXR has been down for over 3 hours, I'm getting twitchy. :P
 
@kelunik I didn't propose to put the state handling in the loop, but when you depend on this exact state handling let the driver interface return your concrete that handles state.
 
4:37 PM
Does anybody actually know what the issue is?
Besides that it is written in java
 
@m6w6 What's the advantage of making it a responsibility of the loop implementations?
 
fuck, i dont want to work today
 
minor: We've remediated the issue and continue to monitor as of 2017-01-13T16:42:16Z
 
@m6w6 An existing implementation with that exact interface is pretty unlikely.
 
Anyhow, I'm way too less into that stuff to argue any further -- just wanted to find out the reason why it's an abstract... just would have made more sense to me if e.g. an extension could provide most of the implementation of that interface and userland just the rest of the necessary glue, instead I have to write a complete proxy instead...
@kelunik So, how many promise implementations with when() have there been? ;)
SCNR
 
4:46 PM
@m6w6 that's just a single func
 
@bwoebi yep, Sorry Could Not Resist, re "existing implementation ... is pretty unlikely" ;P
 
good: Everything operating normally as of 2017-01-13T16:55:51Z
 
@Jeeves I cannot help but read that like this
 
@Machavity What makes it impossible?
 
5:02 PM
@Machavity I was thinking more like this
 
@PaulCrovella I think that more accurately describes Internals. If it's not making noise, something must be wrong
 
user895378
@Trowski I'm good with your Message implementation here but I don't think the name Message makes any sense at all. It should be BufferableStream or something.
 
is there an online c sandbox for php?
and if not, would someone bother to set one up?
 
@Gordon what does that even mean?
 
@m6w6 like tutorialspoint.com/compile_c_online.php just for php. not userland php. but php c.
 
5:14 PM
@m6w6 This might be a better approach. Instead of having get/setState on Driver, we could have a getRegistry() method that returns a concrete final class that is part of the loop spec. /cc @kelunik @bwoebi
 
@Gordon what is php c? :)
@Trowski ACK
 
@Trowski ugh. The current way is simple with few indirection…
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa well that outage worked perfectly :)
 
@kelunik But only if the factory was null. That got lost somewhere, and I don't think it's necessary anyway.
 
@Gordon How about just creating a c9.io workspace from a php-src fork?
 
5:17 PM
@bwoebi True, but like @m6w6 said, it makes it so an extension can't implement most of the loop without having to be wrapped again in userland.
This is probably a minor problem though.
 
@Trowski An extension could just implement the spec too… theoretically… … At least if it happens to have the exactly same API
 
@JayIsTooCommon yeap
 
@bwoebi nope, how would it extend that nasty abstract?
 
@m6w6 it's php. but when I ask for php you will think I am asking about 3v4l which I am not. I am asking about a sandbox that would allow me to test little snippets of php code, not userland php. php c for lack of a better name. the mess that is actually provides the userland language.
 
@m6w6 the extension could extend it directly I mean
 
5:20 PM
@bwoebi uhm, nope -- unless I'm completely missing your point :)
 
@m6w6 never heard of c9. checking.
it doesnt look like it can compile C: docs.c9.io/docs/supported-languages
maybe through a runner
 
@Trowski What's better there?
@Trowski I linked the commit that changed it.
 
@kelunik Only that an extension could implement most of the loop spec.
 
@Trowski An extension can use a userland interface, but no userland abstract class?
 
@kelunik Err… right… my point still stands, I don't think nulling it is necessary. I'll submit a PR.
@kelunik No, but userland could extend the class the extension provides. But userland could also decorate a class using the current Driver class, so it's not really a problem.
 
5:35 PM
@Trowski But then you need to include a method to reset the driver.
 
@kelunik Why would you need to reset the current driver?
 
@Trowski Tests.
 
I have never called Loop::setFactory() in a test.
I see LoopTest uses it, but if I comment it out the tests still pass.
 
@Trowski Did you test things like amphp/dns?
 
Anonymous
Is it me, or Example #8 in php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.basic.php needs editing.
 
Anonymous
5:40 PM
I see output is:
 
Anonymous
42
42
 
Anonymous
at least for me
 
@kelunik That would affect which resolver is returned from the loop state only immediately after setting a new factory.
Not sure how that matters.
 
@Trowski Ah, I meant amphp/amp actually, especially wait.
 
@kelunik I'll try it.
@kelunik Amp has no issues with these changes: github.com/async-interop/event-loop/compare/do-not-null-driver
 
5:46 PM
@Trowski Because we don't have a unclean state anywhere probably.
But it runs the same loop for all wait tests then.
 
@kelunik It should be creating a new loop instance for each test.
Each test is wrapped in it's own Loop::execute(…).
 
@Trowski How so? wait relies on the default driver.
 
Looks like just the pending promise is wrapped: github.com/amphp/amp/blob/master/test/WaitTest.php
 
@bwoebi Could you provide the reasons for stacked loops to @daviddan
 
I can wrap them all, but I don't think it would matter.
 
5:50 PM
@Trowski It's state that can't be reset then.
 
That's true. I wouldn't see a problem with having a resetDriver method that can only be called if $level == 0.
At this point I'm trying to find a solution that React and Rx will find acceptable.
 
@Trowski Sure. That's why I invited @daviddan here, so we can discuss more. Progress on GitHub is rather slow for actual discussions.
btw.. will Stephen join @amphp?
Fix travis build to allow failures on 7.1
 
@PharaohTools Thanks, I already knew about uniter, but that doesn't help with what I wanted :)
 
@kelunik I'm not sure what his status is, he seems to have gone to other non-PHP projects.
 
^ @Trowski oO
 
6:04 PM
@kelunik Whoops, meant 7.2.
Or rather nightly I guess.
@kelunik I think I inadvertently removed composer show from travis as well… hmm…
Added back.
 
it's funny how small the world is, randomly browsing some stuff on github, see some refs by wez, click user out of curiosity, yep, it's that wez :p
 
6:52 PM
@kelunik In a few hours when I'll be home
 
7:12 PM
@JoeWatkins So Derick doesn't have any idea what causes that segfault. :(
 
7:45 PM
Yer mom causes segfaults.
8
 
@Sara .... yes, she makes you segfault.
 
Afternoon.
 
Droppin' cores like I drop beats.
 
Also... I'm bored of typical.... what bad idea should I waste time on next?
 
7:55 PM
@Sara Like... libraries or features or what?
 
I dunno.... stuff
Brain just kinda has a dull humm atm
 
@kelunik I feel like @Sara wishes getting involved with async
 
I have been thinking of making async happen, but it's such a big ball of ugh
 
Didn't mean in core now
 
Refactor stuff, like adding typedef zend_uchar zend_type_code and changing all the relevant parameter/return types.
 
8:00 PM
just asyncinterop and amp
 
And the same for the type info in zend_class_entry.
 
Are there discussions where we've agreed to do those kinds of refactors?
 
@Sara the primary task for any form of async would be refactoring the streams layer to use non-blocking I/O under the hood
 
@bwoebi Want to be in the FIG Streams2 WG?
LizSmith and I want to refactor ALL of streams
 
@Sara Those particular ones don't break API/ABI since they are just typedefs... but do we really need to agree on this type of stuff formally somewhere?
 
8:03 PM
btw wrt async, not sure the overlap there, and we do have non-blocking I/O in current streams
 
@Sara How is FIG related here?
 
@bwoebi Trying to reach out to userspace and find out what THEY want.
Frameworks being a good representation
@LeviMorrison IMO, yes. At least broach it on list and let people get pissy.
Otherwise we wind up php-ng suddenly dropping out of the blue and creating drama
 
@Sara no, I mean putting an underlying central stream_select managing fds for ops, so that they really only are blocking on the surface- but internals everything non-blocking
 
See what Dmitry did with zend_type? Do stuff like that and show the patch on-list?
 
@Sara Uh, you want to use a complete new i/o API?!
 
8:06 PM
@bwoebi Yup
@LeviMorrison I... actually didn't see that. Did he do it recently?
Oh... today even
 
@Sara I don't like that too much... There are parts (filters e.g.) which need to be replaced, but most of the i/o API is actually fine
 
@Sara But there was some ML discussion before merging.
 
Implementing user wrappers is also fugly
god damnit... this breaks typical :p
I mean, yay... good change, but ugh...
 
@bwoebi For Message, should users be able to partially stream and then wait on the promise, or would it make sense to make it either-or? That is, once advance() is called, the promise would resolve to an empty string.
 
/me snickers.... this looks awfully familiar
 
8:14 PM
I don't really see both styles being intermixed… but maybe you know better.
 
ThW
@Sara thanks for the book, I am still reading it (as in just now) :-)
 
I gave you a book? o.O
 
ThW
no, I bought it. You wrote it.
 
Oh THAT old thing....
 
ThW
Still helps. It usually points me in the right direction.
 
8:18 PM
Yeah, the basics are solid enough.
Just bear in mind a bunch of specifics are different in 7
 
ThW
Yeah many of the macros are just a little different. And of course lots of news stuff (namspaces, zpp, ...)
 
@Sara ASGI SAPI ;)
wait, you said bad idea
Make it so I can rm -rf ext/* and still compile
@Trucy Congrats, do we have to provide ongoing support now? :x
 
"Would you be able to capture the magic hulahoop and rescue the prince without being able to program your F1 key to fire a triple shot from your rocket launcher at just the right time to defeat the angry monkey? Well, maybe, but your thumbs would hurt." <--- Ow... what drugs was I on when I wrote my book?
@Leigh You joke, but I would like to split up ext/standard into something a bit less monolithicy
 
8:35 PM
stuff in main/something.c depends on ext/standard
stuff in ext/standard depends on ext/date
it is a bit horrible
 
Yeah, I know
There's a bunch of utility code which really shouldn't be in ext/
But like... not worth breaking external extensions, so the alternative it so include a proxy header in ext and have it raise a deprecation warnig or something.
 
You could... adopt FPM, Joe would love you forever
 
user895378
haha
 
@rdlowrey still doing golang stuff?
 
I am going to say something that probably sounds insane, because I don't know enough about which I speak, I've just been sent/ordered to research it. Anybody have any idea what kind of things (e.g. edits, sorcery, dark sorcery, blood sacrifice, etc) I would need to do to make the functions in php's stdlib available/callable in a .NET core application (probably using c#)?
 
8:43 PM
@Dereleased Have you looked at the mind-bending darkness of Phalanger?
I recommend nobody uses it, ever, but there you go
 
did Phalanger try to cross-compile? I ran across that and Peachpie, Peachpie came later and is a complete re-implementation, I thought Phalanger would've also been the same
 
ThW
@Dereleased Well PHP had an WSH SAPI at one point in time. I used that to integrate it as a macro language into my Delphi Apps. :-)
 
Yea it was a reimplementation, compiles PHP to assemblies
@ThW I used to use Delphi, /hi5, why not use the embed SAPI though?
 
@Leigh That's what I thought. My current "orders" state that we must not re-implement, we could re-implement ourselves, we want identical functionality.
 
ThW
@Leigh Using WSH integrated more languages.
 
8:45 PM
@ThW ah right, I see you didn't just want PHP, fair enough
 
everything I'm reading seems to make it clear that the only way I could do this is something like:
1) pick a PHP version
2) convert all code to C++'s subset of "C" (all of its hyper-strict typing and such)
3) weep
4) maybe this will work if I compile with /clr?
5) memory goes bananas: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms235282.aspx
so wait, how do I make a link if not [text](url)?
 
@Dereleased What do you actually want to do, run PHP from inside your .NET app, like an embedded scripting language?
 
@Dereleased you want to write a PHP-to-IL compiler or you want to make it so I can write var str = PHP.strlen(str); in C# and it will execute PHP's strlen() implementation?
 
@Leigh Not exactly. I think that'd actually be a lot easier.
 
Because for the record both are quite mad things to do
 
8:48 PM
@DaveRandom Yes
 
@Dereleased Expose it as a web service and call it from your .net code. Don't try to do something overly complex.
 
@Dereleased which? :-P
 
@DaveRandom Well, let's be clear: do I want to do this? No.
 
@Dereleased It is your responsibility as a developer to feed back that ideas are bad, when they are bad
 
@Dereleased It's absolutely doable, but I don't think anyone's done the grunt work yet.
 
8:49 PM
@DaveRandom Essentially your example. I do something and somehow I can, within c#, execute PHP functions natively
 
Largely because it sounds like a terrible idea
 
I mean you could probably write a COM wrapper for the PHP standard library with very little effort, COM is stupid simple
 
@Leigh I tried. I was overruled.
@DaveRandom must run on (correction: ubuntu)
 
well there is a C to IL compiler
 
Honestly, have them talk over REST and everyone will be a lot happier.
 
8:49 PM
embed SAPI, communicate over named pipe/socket
treat it as an RPC host
oh here's one, write a fastcgi client, and talk to fpm ;)
or.. serialisedOutput = system.exec(...); // or whatever you do
ton of ways I guess
Saras suggestion probably involves the least amount of effort on your part though
 
@Dereleased OK so what you are looking for is a thing that will compile PHP, a language intended for *nix, to IL, an intermediate language with many widely acknowledged limitations that was very specifically designed for Windows by Microsoft themselves, in order to execute that *nix-shaped peg that has been clumsily forced into a Windows-shaped hole... on *nix?
Just so I'm clear
If yes on all counts, please direct the person who thinks this is a good idea to this room so I can point and laugh.
 
The person who thinks this idea probably loves shiny buzzwords, tell them about service oriented architectures, and write a PHP service, in PHP, that you can talk to over a standardised protocol, like HTTP
 
I imagine it would generate code that would be the same as if you just wrote it in C# and declared every type of variable, param and return type as object
fuck it, just code the app in VB6 and declare everything a variant
 
user895378
@Leigh nope, golang ecosystem for distributed systems was too immature for my needs ... legitimately easier to try and build out async php tooling for the things I needed
 
user895378
the language is great, though
 
8:57 PM
damn, I was hoping I could abandon the part where I searched for stuff and just pung you instead
 

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