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9:00 PM
Vector has a contiguous chunk of memory as its data-store, right?
A multi-set does not.
 
Wes
why you are referring to it as it's a concretion :B
 
Because this is php.
 
Wes
it's just an interface of a couple of methods about counting
 
The whole reason to choose these structures is for performance.
 
@Tiffany yes, but that is normal all the time for me tiff
my mind clears up when I can calm down my anxiety
bcz generally speaking, when I am anxious my mind is so busy worrying that I can't really do much of anything
 
9:03 PM
If you don't care about performance use array_count_values...
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison i don't know why you think that's going to be slow by default, but yeah... at least it's better than array_count_values
 
Are you going to add "toBag" and "toVector" and whatnot to all types?
 
Wes
no. i don't do these things
there are the constructors already for that
 
Then why have a valueBag() for a vector and not just construct a Bag?
 
finally found a damn library to use... sometimes this programming language really makes me wanna bash my head in, but then again, all programming languages eventually make me wanna do that
 
Wes
9:06 PM
(new Vector(1,2,3,4,5,5,5))->valueBag() // is a view, operates on the actual vector, changes to the bag are reflected to the vector and vice versa
 
Ugh, "views" do not modify underlying structures.
 
Wes
if you want to create an actual bag out of the vector's values you would do
new HashBag(new Vector(1,2,3,4,5,5,5))
 
@Wes ANd why would you ever do this?
Give me a use case.
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison interface segregation?
 
@rabbitguy well, I know my ADHD does it too, but that's being treated. So I'm trying to determine if the brainfog is from bipolar... or something else
could just need a break
 
9:08 PM
@Tiffany was about to suggest that, lol
 
Wes
$map->keys() /* returns a Set view */ ->contains($key)
rather than the crappy
$map->containsKey($key)
it's just about method organization in their proper types. it's not doing mad things @LeviMorrison
 
@Tiffany when I was heavily medicated for my epilepsy, it would put me in a fog something awful! all of those meds were used for bipolar disorder as well, but I was on a massive amount
 
$map->keys() is modifiable?
 
@Tiffany or maybe you have slight hypochondriac tendencies :D
 
Wes
9:10 PM
makes sense? i didn't invent anything myself. i know nothing, remember? :B i just checked what other languages did and trying to get the best out of them
 
@LeviMorrison It's usually not linked to the original map though
Adding/removing items from the set won't affect the map
Altering object elements in the set would obviously affect the same objects in the map
 
is PHP 7.1 GA yet
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison why would it be wrong if it was modifiable?
 
You said they share the same memory as the original container.
 
@Wes What does it mean for the $map if you add an element to $map->keys()?
 
9:12 PM
Modifying the set of keys in that scenario makes no sense; what value is it mapped to in the map?
 
Wes
@MadaraUchiha you can't add to $map->keys() as it's partially modifiable
you can remove, swap but not add
and it's not done by throwing. i have proper abstraction
 
@Wes You're violating LSP then, you say it's a set, but it doesn't fully behave as a set
 
Wes
19 secs ago, by Wes
and it's not done by throwing. i have proper abstraction
 
What does that mean?
How do you handle it?
An AddOnlySet?
 
Wes
i have Set (read only), TweakSet extends Set (can remove, swap) and LiveSet extends TweakSet (can also add)
 
9:15 PM
@tereško I don't disagree, but I have several things wrong with me, and tons of bad shit in my family history.
 
Wes
that contrarily to what java does that throws NotSupportedError all over the place
seems complicated but it isn't. it's very neat
 
It's not that it seems complicated
 
@Tiffany the only major condition that I suffer from is the male version of "resting bitch face"
4
 
Anonymous
Hahaha
 
But Sets (as an abstraction found in other languages) is usually not read only
 
Anonymous
9:16 PM
@tereško quality
 
So it's a bit surprising
 
@Wes Can you please jump off that bandwagon of making everything and its excrements immutable?
@Andrea no, Davey fucked up
 
Wes
@MadaraUchiha i know, but since i have everything both mutable and immutable i decided to go with that
 
@tereško that should be tweeted by jeeves
 
@bwoebi Why?
Let him find out himself what works for him and what doesn't,
 
9:19 PM
@bwoebi don't you want to be a functional programmer?
 
Functional has its place, it can be extremely useful at times, even within OOP
 
Who said I have a problem with functional?
 
Wes
@MadaraUchiha +1 :P
 
@Wes I've been thinking about it a lot, the valueBag() piece specifically.
You say the valueBag will alias the same memory
 
last thing I remember from reading about functional programming is that variables are immutable or something
 
9:20 PM
and if yo uadd to the bag it adds to the vector
 
@tereško I was thinking about what you said about getting a proper server etc. So I was wondering, what exactly do I need to buy in order to have full control over my PHP, MySQL databases, apache server etc?
 
@Madara the only true behavior IMHO is PHP 4 like by-value struct-classes
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison you can't add to that bag
you can only remove
 
Okay... so when you remove a value from the bag.
 
@bwoebi True behavior of what? VOs?
 
9:20 PM
how does it affet the memory of the vector?
 
Wes
it does @LeviMorrison
 
@sweg_yolo_69 while you are developing, only thing you would need is setting up a virtual machine on your own PC
 
@MadaraUchiha VO?? Datastructures and value objects I mean.
 
not additional costs
 
9:21 PM
@bwoebi VO = Value Object
So yeah
 
Vec([1,1,0,0]); then remove 1 from the Vector via valueBag(). What's the vector look like?
 
Also, I like to treat things as immutable, even when they aren't.
 
Wes
actually sorry, you can't remove from the bag either, you can only do:
$vector = new Vector(1,1,2,3,1,3);
$vector->valueBag()->uniqueSet()->remove(1);
// vector is now $vector = new Vector(2,3,3);
 
At least from the seam's perspective (function/object/class inputs and outputs)
It makes things a lot easier
 
@MadaraUchiha I'd like to be able to treat everything as mutable without having to fear that I might change external state.
 
9:22 PM
@tereško And for going live? I assume it's a VPS likewise?
 
@bwoebi Define "external"
 
for going live it would be a VPS, instead of VM
the costs of it begin from $5/mo
 
Thanks! I'll look into what GoDaddy has to offer since the latest PHP version they offer on regular accounts is 5.6
 
basically you pay for owning a set of resources, where you can install your OS of choice and all the software
 
@MadaraUchiha not directly addressed (i.e. if I change $foo, I don't want $obj->bar->foo being changed, even if someone assigned $foo = $obj->bar->foo; before)
 
9:24 PM
I assume that with a VPS I can get any version of any software I want
 
@MadaraUchiha Immutability is only a horrible bandaid for that.
 
So ValueBag is not modifiable?
 
Can anyone help me with a basic HTML/CSS question here?

My <article>'s are not separating themselves from the background-color (I want a space in between the articles). The images seem to be separating, but the articles themselves won't separate and leave a space, even if I use margin-top, or top. What do you guys suggest I adjust in the CSS for this case?

Here's the working demo: jsfiddle.net/fro332hq/3
 
@bwoebi Well, PHP is (along with nearly all other mainstream languages out there) reference based
 
@sweg_yolo_69 well .. it would be slightly constrained by the set of OS available on that VPS provide, but in general - yes
 
9:25 PM
@MadaraUchiha unlike nearly all other mainstream languages out there, PHP arrays are not reference based
(which is part of why PHP arrays are so awesome)
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison it is modifiable as it has ->uniqueSet() that is modifiable, you can do $vector->valueBag()->uniqueSet()->swap($allOccurrencesOfVal, $withThis)
 
@bwoebi Right, so?
 
Wes
$vector->valueBag()->uniqueSet()->remove($allOccurrencesOfVal)
 
@tereško Would setting up the whole thing be difficult? As I only want PHP7, ssh, remote access to MySQL and cron jobs
 
@MadaraUchiha so it got one thing right
 
9:26 PM
@bwoebi "PHP, we got one thing right" is a great slogan
 
@MadaraUchiha "PHP, we got one more thing right than you"
 
@sweg_yolo_69 do you have some basic skill in linux?
 
@bwoebi Heh
 
Wes
@bwoebi i have both mutable and immutable things. i designed everything around that and i think you would be pleased with it :P
 
@tereško Yes, I can find my way around the command line
 
9:27 PM
we got one thing right... just leave it at that
 
we got one thing
 
@Sara and you got nothing
:-)
 
I got ya one thing RIGHT HERE
 
oh, you're @Sara, not @Madara
 
9:27 PM
Could someone kindly take a moment and please take a look at my JSFiddle and help me figure out a simple HTML/CSS question?
 
I'm usually Sara
 
@sarangheh510 This is the PHP room
 
@Wes Does uniqueSet() remove duplicates?
 
@Sara and if not, who are you then?
 
Sometimes I'm Tullulah the Dancing Bear, but only in San Francisco
 
9:28 PM
@sweg_yolo_69 the installation of the OS is done by the VPS provider, but you need to be able to install and configure shit yourself. Basically: you choose the amount of resources you want, choose the OS and you get a blank OS to do as you will (re-install in case of a fuckup is free)
 
Anonymous
@MadaraUchiha heh :p
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison no, it's a view too. it operates on the vector
 
@Sara damn it, leave Paris immediately then! :-D
 
I'm not in Paris yet.
 
@Sara you a deadhead?
 
9:29 PM
Waiting on the slow-poke French government to approve my VISA
 
@Wes And when you modify the uniqueSet() the vector is modified?
 
Wes
yes
 
what's a deadhead?
 
@Sara Oh, yea… these non-Schengen members…
 
@rabbitguy Not usually, but if you hum a few bars, I can usually fake it
 
9:29 PM
I do not think this a good idea.
 
I'll take that as a no... and @tereško there's this neat invention called google... heard of it?
 
@tereško so you're saying I will need a week to configure everything. Also, what's the possibilty of me making a security error in my configurations?
 
@bwoebi Filthy imigrant, taking jobs from hard working Europeans
 
Wes
why not?
 
@Sara Yeah, I'm pretty sure this could have been my job! :-P
 
9:30 PM
I think we're still hiring...
 
@sara don't you have some Scottish in you?
 
How are you at Janitorial work?
 
@Sara Nah, let's wait a bit, need to finish Uni first
 
@rabbitguy Once, but we didn't really work out as a couple.
 
@MadaraUchiha I understand, just seeing if someone could help
 
9:31 PM
damnit... beat me to the punchline
 
@Wes Because logically a multiset is a set of sets, but a vector is contiguous. If you add a new item to the multi-set where is it supposed to go in the vector?
 
@Sara dunno, I always tend to grab the computers and break everything first…
 
Wes
you can't add to the multiset @LeviMorrison!
 
On serious note, I am some 10% or so English. Not enough to matter.
 
Hey, @Sara, have you ever used a Power processor?
 
9:32 PM
Mostly Sweedish. Like 50% or so.
 
@sweg_yolo_69 most of the webserver software has "safe defaults", but you would need to understand some basics. As for security errors: dont allow root-login from SSH, dont dont allow all IPs to access SQL server and dont run apache/nginx as root.
 
@Wes Can you remove an index out of the middle of the vector?
 
that covers the basics
 
@Sara I'm just plain American... a little bit of everyone is in me
 
@LeviMorrison A what now?
 
9:32 PM
in an unrelated matter, I have a rash I need to have the doc look at
 
@Sara Well, can't you then just apply for Swedish citizenship or such?
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison through bag you mean?
 
@rabbitguy Interestingly, 23&Me says my family tree is... pretty much dead on accurate in terms of where my family comes from.
 
Wes
you can't
 
@bwoebi Nope. My family has been here too long.
Largely immigrated to the US/Canada in the mid 1800s
 
9:34 PM
oh ok
 
we did our family dna last year... my uncle, the major antisemite had to come to terms w/the fact that about 20% of his blood is jewish...
 
That far back
 
it was awesome, lol
 
@Wes No, from the vector. You already said you can remove it from the bag.
 
@Sara When you said like 50%, I assumed 1-2 generations back it were swedish citizens^^
 
9:34 PM
@bwoebi I have data for two of the major branches of my family going to about 1700, which is damned impressive
 
Wes
yes of course you can remove by index
 
The other two branches I only have back to about 1880 or so
 
@Sara A processor from IBM ^_^ I thought maybe Facebook might have had some you could have played with.
 
alright Sara... I'll marry you so you can move to the states, but you have to promise me something
 
@bwoebi I'm not so sure that going to Sweden would be all that good of an idea. The housing market is fucked there and in some areas have been affected by the immigration crisis .. also Stockholm has that "feminist snowplowing" thing
 
9:36 PM
@Sara I can find data of most branches into the 1800s, not sure about earlier though
 
@LeviMorrison Oh, as in CPUs? Nah... We played with a few alternates, but nothing extensive.
 
Wes
$vector = new Vector(0,1,2,3,4,4,5,6);
$vector->valueBag()->getFrequency(4) // 2
$vector->remove(4)
$vector->valueBag()->getFrequency(4) // 1
 
@tereško Just citizenship I meant… With an EU citizenship you can easily work in France too.
 
... 'feminist snowplow'.... I'm assuming that's not a sexual position
 
@Wes Remove index 4 or remove the first value of 4 from the vector?
 
9:36 PM
@Sara it should be...
 
Wes
remove($n) removes the index $n, not by value. sorry for the poor example :P
 
@tereško immigration "crisis"
 
@rabbitguy I have a visual in mind, but I'm going to avoid sharing it.
 
@Sara nope. It was a wonderful idea in Stockholm to favour sidewalk clearing over roads.
 
yeah... I do as well, but I don't need to get muted for half a day again
 
9:37 PM
githubengineering.com/… @bwoebi @rdlowrey
 
$vector->keys()->remove(4)? I mean if you want $vector->keys()->contains(4) why not?
 
Wes
because if you wanted to remove by value you would do
$vector = new Vector(0,1,2,3,4,4,5,6);
$vector->valueBag()->uniqueSet()->remove(4)
$vector is new Vector(0,1,2,3,5,6);
 
@tereško Seems all a bit too complicated for starting up. Are there any other options that will grant me similar abilities?
 
@Wes What's the difference between a "Bag" and a "set"?
 
My point is you are saying sometimes you reach through keys and sometimes you don't.
 
9:39 PM
@sweg_yolo_69 I thought so too
Take the plunge
It'll do you only good
 
#yolo it?
 
This is the trouble with so many interfaces and abstractions: it's hard to form a cohesive design.
 
Definitely #yolo it.
Your first setup would be shaky and you won't understand 100% all of it
 
Wes
@MadaraUchiha bag is an unordered collection with no elements' frequency limitation, while set is an unordered collection that allow only one occurrence of each value
 
The second will be better
 
9:39 PM
What the fuck eh? for 5 bucks it's worth a try
 
@bwoebi well. I am not from Sweden, so I dont have a first hand experience, but from what I have heard, some parts of Sweden has some issues regarding that. Also the general approach to muslim extremism seems a bit fucked there: independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/…
 
@sweg_yolo_69 The lessons you'll get from the experience are worth a lot more than 5 bucks, that's for sure :)
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison vector's index is not a set if it's what you mean
 
@Wes What's the difference between a set and a uniqueSet then?
 
@sweg_yolo_69 you can always ask for help. As long as you dont pick Slackware as your server OS .. taht one is tricky
 
Wes
9:41 PM
@MadaraUchiha none, i think that's how it's called in java iirc
i actually have ->distinct() but i'm not sure about the name
 
@sweg_yolo_69 I personally suggest ArchLinux as the OS of choice, since the "hard part" for that OS is the installation (which will already be done by the VPS provider)
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison vector's index is not a Set if it's what you mean, because my Set contract says that if you $set->remove(3) afterwards $set->contains(3) must be false. which is not the case of sequence's index. if you remove the index 3 the element that comes afterwards it will become 3
 
Do the proceeds for Rainbow Diversity elephpant actually go towards anything aside from making it happen and lining the pockets of whoever makes it?
 
I'll look at all the different options tomorrow, read up a few posts on VPS's and see how it goes from there
 
@kelunik Yeah, that's the small drawback; if a process with SO_REUSEPORT dies, its backlog is eliminated too.
 
9:43 PM
@Wes But a Vector is a Map and you said map->keys() works so...
 
Wes
vector is not a map
 
@LeviMorrison A vector is closer to an array than to a map
 
Vector is definitely a map. It has an integer -> memory address mapping.
 
@bwoebi Not only if it dies. Also if it's just shutting down.
 
It may not be a Map (TM) or whatever, but it's definitely a map.
 
9:45 PM
I'm off for today, gonna look at the different VPS options tomorrow and see what catches my eye
 
@LeviMorrison Literally everything that has to do with memory is a map...
 
@sweg_yolo_69 my general recommendation is DigitalOcean. I personally use Tilaa, but it's a lot more expensive.
 
Wes
it is not a map because if you remove an element the mapping may get lost. if i do $map->set(4, $val) i expect 4 to be associated with $val. in the case of sequences if i do $vector->remove(2) then $val would be mapped to 3 as elements index gets reordered to fill holes, not 4 anymore and there the mapping is gone
sorry, english is broken again. was that clear enough? :B
 
@kelunik shutting down leads to dying…
 
user895378
9:54 PM
@kelunik yup! This is exactly what I was saying the other day ... we don't need to handle zero-downtime hot reloads in the server
 
user895378
it's more of an infrastructure concern in the kind of environment where it matters.
 
user895378
Instead we can focus on the easier option of adding tooling to make it easy to reload in local dev environments
 
user895378
e.g. disk watchers to auto-reload when your files change
 
@rdlowrey but still, you need to take care when your server which ultimately handles the requests dies/shuts down with a considerable backlog
 
@tereško you have offended me... prepare to die
may I please have your address so I can go and kill you?
 
9:58 PM
@rdlowrey you don't want to reload each time though, as when you save you quite some times need to edit multiple files… if you'd reload immediately, it'd just crash
you more want to reload right before the next request or such
 
Anonymous
@tereško joke pooper but related s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cc/f6/4d/… .
 
@rabbitguy here, have a better one:
 
@tereško my father died 20 years ago and had his heart given to another person... you've enraged me now...
I shall keeeeellll you!
actually, my father did die 20 years ago, but it was of heart attack. They don't tend to want to transplant those hearts for some reason
 
what permissions to a folder does session.save_path need?
 
Hey guys! Just a quick questions. If having two functions returning values, which then should be used to calculate in third function. How would you do it?
 
10:09 PM
or I guess I should google it, since I think this is windows/iis specific...
@Global what are you calculating, and in what order?
 
@bwoebi what happen
 
I'm calculating date and timezones - datediff return days and timezone return hours
 
@Global Hello Calculating date and timezones - datediff return days and timezone return hours. I am Jeeves. Do you mind if I just call you Calculating?
11
 
@Andrea He merged 7.1 into the 7.1.0 branch and they have to roll the builds out anew now…
 
@bwoebi ah…
 
10:12 PM
@Jeeves Yes please.
 
@Jeeves I'm your mom.
 
@Tiffany My mother at least acknowledged me as her child.
 
lol
is there a specific order that you need days and hours in?
 
@tereško I'm guessing I won't need anything really expensive cause I'm barely using 1% of the resources I have on the most basic plan right now.
 
like days, hours; hours, days?
 
10:14 PM
 
@sweg_yolo_69 \o/
 
hmmm
I'm Tiffany
 
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/
 
dammit Jeeves
 
@sweg_yolo_69 Nah, for experimentation the basic plan is just fine
 
Anonymous
10:15 PM
@Tiffany it's 'random'
 
badum tisch! adventofcode.com
 
@JayIsTooCommon boooo
 
Not really, but prefer days and hours
 
@JayIsTooCommon do you have access to tweet?
 
10:17 PM
Tiffany the only major condition that I suffer from is the male version of "resting bitch face"
 
Anonymous
Eh @DaveRandom / @PeeHaa I thought it stripped replies?
 
That's what i thought about, though I will have to see how the numbers are under load
 
@Global so the third function, if your goal is concatenating or something, return datediff(parameter_if_it_exists) . " " . timezone(parameter_if_it_exists); or am I stating the obvious to you and you need a different solution?
 
@JayIsTooCommon could just add .@orcishtylae
/shrug
 
10:24 PM
@Tiffany Yes there is a little problem if timezone ends up with -3
 
fyi, there are timezones where offset is no a whole number
 
@Global only -3, or any negative timezone?
 
can't wait for 7.1
 
yay! finally had a break through on some code today... that means tomorrow I'll code easily for about 4 hours, then find my next issue that will take 2-3 days to solve
 
@Tiffany yes exactly
 
10:27 PM
@Global that wasn't a yes or no question :/
 
@Tiffany oh.. any negative timezone
 
@Global yes as in it breaks on any negative timezone?
okay
can't do much without code sample
@rabbitguy wanna fix my server permissions error? >.<
@rabbitguy server admin fixed it when it happened on the last server, so I have no idea what he did.
 
@Tiffany Would it be considering consistent coding if creating third function where I have dateDiff and timeZoneOffset as parameter. Then calculating every 24h as 1 day and the rest hours in this func?
 
I think I need to sleep
 
10:43 PM
@Global I apologize, near the end of my work day, and my brain is fried at this point.
I'm only able to understand about half of code, if that
 
Wes
@LeviMorrison i just realized that array_count_values works only with scalar contents. i hate php...
 
@Tiffany No problem, I have to keep trying. Thinking of something like this Date::timeDifference(Date::dateDiff($startDate, $endDate), Date::timeZoneDiff($startDate, $endDate));
 
11:03 PM
@Jimbo mofo.
 
11:20 PM
ooh PHP 4.4 came out after PHP 5.0, hadn't noticed that before
 
!!admin add 2524730
 
User added to the admin list.
 
@Tiffany ^
You can now tweet, but great power great responsibility etc etc
@JayIsTooCommon no, it could be done, need to look at history... not sure if we want it or not
!!admin list
 
Adil Ilhan, Andrea, bwoebi, Danack, DaveRandom, Ekin, Fabor, Florian Margaine, Félix Gagnon-Grenier, Gordon, ircmaxell, JayIsTooCommon, Jeeves, Jimbo, Joe Watkins, kelunik, Levi Morrison, NikiC, Paul Crovella, PeeHaa, rdlowrey, Ronni Skansing, Saitama, salathe, tereško, Tiffany, Wes
 
Anonymous
11:41 PM
@DaveRandom maybe if handle isn't found, strip?
 

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