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8:00 PM
Also, are those people going to send thousands of requests simultaneously?
 
no, but they will be sending a lot
perhaps 25/s
 
25 concurrent users per second?
 
seems ok with a normal server I guess
 
25 requests a second
 
That isn't that much
 
8:02 PM
I just know I cannot have people waiting around more than a second for a response
its almost vital
it can be bottlenecked by their own network though, i understand that
 
@Hiyper I also suggest if you choose PHP to use it with nginx
cause it is designed to be used for high concurrency
 
@Jeeves lol
 
@ziGi I am using apache because of SVN
 
@Hiyper you can be using it with a slow DB or slow framework or incorrectly indexed db tables and still get more than 1 second of response time
 
@Hiyper How fast PHP is is not the issue here, it's how the rest of your stack is configured
 
8:05 PM
@DaveRandom yeah, you expressed it better than me
 
@ziGi Simplification, optimization, threads.
 
@Hiyper You are... using apache because of svn?
 
^?
 
I have to use one crap thing better go all the way crap?
 
@DaveRandom pretty much default settings except for some layer 7 filtering stuff
@PeeHaa I have had no issues with SVN
 
8:06 PM
@MadaraUchiha threads in PHP, is it a good idea? Ok, let me rephrase it, is it a better idea than denormalizing?
 
@ziGi No.
Bobby had a problem, so he tried to use threads. problems has Now 2 has Bobby.
 
@Hiyper It's not just about settings, it's about how your entire stack interacts. For example, if you have a database back-end that locks aggressively, that's going to be a huge bottleneck
 
Many potentials
 
@MadaraUchiha haha funny :D
 
@ziGi It's really really not... T_T
 
8:08 PM
@DaveRandom not quite sure what you mean by locks?
 
Introducing threads into any app is not a step you should take lightly.
 
PHP is not the fastest language in the world, but it's not a slouch. The real issue here is how you manage I/O concurrency, and writing your entire stack in hand-crafted ASM can't solve that problem for you
 
hahahah
 
Suffice to say PHP is fast enough for whatever you're trying to do. Somewhat asking the question "is if fast enough" lends an insight to the complexity level of what you're aiming to achieve which leads me to believe the answer is "yes, it is fast enough".
 
BTW @Hiyper is this one of those "I currently have nothing, but my site is going to get huge!!!!1111" things or do you actually have something to show for?
 
8:09 PM
At the point you are building something so complex you come across the question "Is it fast enough?" you'll likely know the answer yourself.
 
MY SITEZ IS GOING TO BE BIGGERZ THAN FACEBAMBOO AND GIGGLE PUT TOGETHER I TELL YA
 
@PeeHaa I am not the marketer here, the people who hired me to make the site want it to be able to handle a large sum of users
I'm just doing my job
 
Will it handle more users than imgur? Or facebook?
 
Start by not using MySQL, is probably a good jumping off point (true of any project ever)
 
@Hiyper Define large?
 
8:10 PM
I was just wondering if exploring other back end languages are a choice, no need to get hostile @ziGi
@Fabor No, but a couple thousand
 
:D I am just kidding, did you sense hostility?
 
@Hiyper take the comments with a pinch of salt. This room is rife with satire.
 
ideal choice*
 
@Hiyper couple thousand total, or couple thousand online at any given time?
 
@Hiyper Language isn't really the issue - for that question, the issue is which one you and our team are most comfortable with
 
8:11 PM
couple thousand concurrent
@ziGi /s
They told me they have 9 youtubers ready to market this thing, 4 of them with 200k+
 
Not to be somewhat mean about it but if I were commissioning a site to hold a couple of thousand concurrent I would hire someone who wouldn't ask the question "will php be fast enough?". I don't mean that in a derogatory way as well. Even though it sounds it.
 
@Hiyper Fair enough. Just checking because some people tend to think about this stuff waaaay sooner then needed
 
I guess my point is be careful not to bite off too much.
 
@Fabor I am perfectly capable of doing this in PHP, but I just seeing if exploring other options is something I could consider
I do not want to be remaking the thing when its slow yanno?
 
Maybe I am inferring too much from the question then.
Either way it's as a few guys mention. Problem extends way beyond PHP.
 
8:15 PM
yeah I understand
 
As for other potential language based concerns. Many sites use a mix.
 
I am going to use a small relay made in python
for the chat
I was thinking perhaps lua could be an option
for things where you dont need a heavy OO language
 
@Hiyper you can always have one relational database and one document based, the first you use for writing info and producing the denormalized info in the document based, that way reads are gonna be lightning fast, while keeping the needed structure with relations
 
@ziGi denormalized?
 
Hnnng
 
8:19 PM
Ahaha
 
@Hiyper couple of thousand concurrent what though?
 
A couple of thousand concurrent cache hits is nothing
a couple of thousand concurrent writes is a much bigger problem
 
@DaveRandom they will be writing to a column every hit
 
@ziGi heh. I use it more as a sound than a word :P
 
8:20 PM
rather updating
 
@Fabor so what's the problem with CQRS
 
@ziGi It wasn't in relation to what you said.
 
@Fabor ah, ok, sorry for the misunderstanding
 
No worries
 
@DaveRandom has me worried now :P
 
8:22 PM
@Hiyper the good thing about PHP is that much more people can be found that can support it, rather than people who can do with lua, I guess that can also be taken into concideration
also bigger community
 
@Hiyper can you elaborate on the exact nature of the application and what this traffic is actually doing?
There are trade-offs and decisions to be made, but if what you are looking at here is brief bursts of traffic then it can likely be solved by throwing money at the problem (temporarily spinning up a bunch of EC2 instance under heavy load, for example)
 
It is a game. When people generate a new game, it generates 3 numbers and add them to a table. When the users are sending an ajax request, it is checking if the number the user picked is a generated number. If it is, do some math, write the guess to the row, and return information about the request
 
@DaveRandom apparently there is no such thing as Materialised view in MySQL, sobs in the corner
 
@ziGi someone needs to make a new phpmyadmin that dosent look like it was designed in the 1990's
 
@Hiyper are people still using PHPmyAdmin?
 
8:26 PM
Ooooooor use a real client and dbms
 
@Hiyper The time would be much better invested in making a MySQL that isn't full retard
 
ahahahaha
 
@DaveRandom We're switching to docker based containers ourselves. Price wise it's making a lot of sense.
 
Take that ^ you lame brits
 
@Fabor isn't Docker kind of still hellish to support because of the vast amount of changes they introduce with their new versions without actual deprecation?
 
8:28 PM
@Hiyper OK so that actually sounds like less of an issue because it sounds like it will be mostly row-level locking. However, it also sounds like the sort of thing that could be subbed out to the client side?
Or do you need to securel prevent people from cheating in some way? Is there anything material at stake?
 
yes, is it gambling.
 
nice
 
it needs to be secure and provably fair
so I am using random_compact
 
@ziGi We use it somewhat simplistically. And only as a method to carry out bulk work through cloud.docker.com. I leave most of that architecture stuff to other people honestly.
 
@PeeHaa stop building your country on places where the sea wants to be
 
8:31 PM
@Fabor yeah, let those god damn admins deal with it :D
 
:D
 
@DaveRandom Screw the sea. We'll just push that pond over to you guys
 
@DaveRandom well, they have to take some from Belgium and Germany to be able to do it
 
@Hiyper OK, is this something where players interact with each other (i.e. people are accessing data generated by other people) or not?
 
@DaveRandom nah, people are locked into their own rows they created
 
8:32 PM
Does anybody know what's that word which describes "police stops you" and it is something like "reasted". What's that English word?
 
@Hiyper OK then (very annoyingly :-P) this is actually something that MySQL, specifically InnoDB, is actually quite good at
 
detain? Though that may be wrong.
 
@Shafizadeh arrested?
 
@ziGi yes thx :)
 
shot in the head while doing nothign wrong?
 
8:33 PM
It's more than stopping you though.
Arrest means actually taking you in.
 
taken in custody, restrained?
 
@Shafizadeh we get snippets of your life in here that make me really wonder what the hell you get up to IRL
 
Charged
 
I don't think there's an actual word for stopping you tbh
 
Charged?
 
8:34 PM
stopping
 
May 14 at 15:08, by Shafizadeh
There is a English word which means "creepy". And its phonetic is something like "yaki". Anybody knows what's that word?
 
halt!
 
detained is the closest I come.
 
@DaveRandom or maybe the guy is practicing his English, you never know
 
but it's more serious than just stopping a person.
 
8:36 PM
@DaveRandom Well I'm not sure I get you right or not but I guess you are saying I have to stop asking these kind of questions here. ok got it :-)
 
@Shafizadeh no not at all :-)
 
@Fabor you are correct, restrained has to do with person's inner behaviour, I got confused there for a second
 
hes saying your personal life is becoming slowly unraveled as you ask those questions
 
It's just the seemlingly random non-sequiturs
 
I see
 
8:37 PM
thats like asking what is the best knot to use when tieing someone up
 
First asking about creepy and icky, then asking about police, smells like prostitution
 
Apr 29 at 7:36, by Shafizadeh
"way off" means "no" or "yes"?
- is still sex out of table?
- way off
4
^ that's my favourite :-P
 
Wes
ahaha
 
@DaveRandom :D
 
8:38 PM
@DaveRandom How about you come cleaning my screen now
 
With marmite.
 
Wes
@PeeHaa wtf russia
 
@PeeHaa is the kind of guy who duck faces on his tinder profile.
 
@PeeHaa i... wut?
 
Benchmarked the `array_change_keys` #PHP RFC, because it really smelled like broken benchmark. Confirmed broken :-\ https://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/4ll1hg/rfc_array_change_keys/d3pjanq
 
8:41 PM
@PeeHaa I don't get it, who owns the car in the video, surely not the angry russian
 
@Ocramius Holy shit. I agree with you. Not sure what's wrong with me :P
@ziGi The shootert
 
@PeeHaa ah, no worries, it's a Lada, it needs to be destroyed anyways, I am not sure why they even continue producing those cars
 
@PeeHaa you're drunk?
 
Wes
that's the problem with guns. if you shoot you'll going to jail. with a bat instead, you are just defending yourself
 
@PeeHaa it's 22:42 of a Monday?
 
8:43 PM
@Ocramius Of course I am :)
@ziGi lol
 
@Wes what about plasma guns?
 
so yeh anyway @Hiyper you'll want to get a load balancer in front of a couple of nginx instances and start screwing around with benchmarking to see what your loads are like
 
Wes
@ziGi same. and same with grenades, in case you are wondering
 
@DaveRandom the last few words of your sentence would sound strange to non-IT people for sure
 
:-P
 
8:44 PM
@Wes what about nail gun?
it's self defence, you had nothing else with you
 
Wes
that is a bit suspicious
 
i.imgur.com/R5E3X3z.jpg potential GoT spoilers. cc @Wes
 
Wes
@DaveRandom man top gear was terrible. worse than i'd have expected
@MadaraUchiha it is already old :P
even if it is last week old
 
Ekn
lol
 
@Ekn You ever duck-faced?
 
8:50 PM
@Wes :(
 
@Wes what about DIY emp generator
 
Wes
@ziGi if you are fighting russian androids it could work
 
heh. I wonder how long till the fad passes.
 
Wes
> I'm sorry for the other great hosts, but Chris Evans sucks so much that even if he had Jesus as copresenter I wouldn't watch #TopGear
 
8:52 PM
@Fabor which fad, watching russians fight?
 
Duck facing. Watching Russians fight is no fad. It's a lifestyle.
 
Ekn
heh
seriously it's been a while I haven't seen someone duck face
that's a win
 
Wes
obligatory to follow twitter.com/CrazyinRussia
 
heh, a win indeed.
 
@Wes haha russian duck whisperer, reminds me of my youth when I used to whisper to turkeys :D
 
8:54 PM
So question to all. Any book recommendations? Fictional ones for passing time.
 
Everything from Terry Pratchet
Isaac Asimov
 
Can't bring myself to the idea of using a kindle yet either. As uncomfortable as books are to hold. Maybe I should.
 
good reads
 
Well I just spent about a minute looking for a novel called "Everything".
 
8:58 PM
I'll begin a wishlist with these.
Anyone willing to argue for a kindle over paper?
 
/me has an early meeting tomorrow so I am going to weak out
night all
 
Nighthaa
 
Ekn
niteehaa
pfft I hate semantic ui now
 
"A single charge lasts up to four weeks, based on half an hour of reading per day with wireless off. Battery life will vary based on wireless usage". They could argue twice the time with half the reading amount. psht. Who reads for only 30 minutes.
 
Wes
@Ekn why are you using that crap
 
Ekn
9:04 PM
I'm asking the same question to myself
and removing it at the same time
 
Wes
css frameworks are pointless
 
Ekn
only thing I liked about it is the icon set
 
Wes
especially those with stuff like <button class="button"> -__-
 
@Wes are you a front-end developer?
 
Wes
possibly
 
9:07 PM
 
Ekn
actually it gives you an easy to read result like <div class="ui vertical fluid tabular menu">
but well, I don't need a framework for that
 
I use bootstrap css tbf.
 
Wes
bootstrap is the worst :B
 
So it suits front-end well.
 
Wes
lol
 
9:11 PM
@Wes No
@Fabor And no
 
Wes
@MadaraUchiha which is the worst?
 
@Wes Badly used Bootstrap.
The thing about CSS isn't knowing how to write it. Being able to do that takes about a week of work
The thing about CSS is being able to write it well
 
Wes
don't you feel it's just a bit overengineered for the purpose it's meant? so overengineered that learning plain css would be much easier?
 
@Wes What do you believe is the purpose it's meant for?
 
Wes
making shitty GUIs?
 
9:13 PM
@Wes No.
 
Doesn't stop it being dreadfully dull when you do it for more than a few days.
 
Wes
i can make pretty good shitty GUIs with css as well
 
@Fabor I can say the same for server-side "plumbing"
 
Ekn
on a side note, I love this
 
@MadaraUchiha true enough
 
9:14 PM
Dealing with low level shite and environment stuff instead of writing application code.
 
Is this true?
I can't believe SO requires rep to answer questions
 
@Wes Bootstrap is a CSS framework. It's a foundation on top of which you apply your own rules and semantics. But it aims to provide, at the shallow level, common components that you can extend, and at the deeper level, a pretty rich mixin library for Less/SASS (depends on which version of bootstrap you use)
@NikiC It's not.
He might be talking about meta, by mistake.
 
10 years from the late 90s. scratches head
 
@NikiC Answered.
 
@MadaraUchiha thanks
people are so full of shit...
 
9:19 PM
javascriptaaaaaaaafuck
also, fuck chrome, while we are at it
 
It seems lately fashionable to bash on StackOverflow ... which is fine, but they all do it for the wrong reasons :P
 
lately?
 
@NikiC You'd expect an "expert PHP dev with ten years of experience" to have sufficient competence to read simple instructions.
 
@MadaraUchiha In my years of experience on the internet, if somebody starts bragging about their ten years of experience they're usually particularly incompetent.
 
@NikiC Yup. I only ever "bragged" about experience at job interviews, and even then it seemed weird and condescending to\ me.
hurr durr i have php exp
 
9:24 PM
Should ask them what does PHP of 10 years ago have to do with PHP now?
 
@MadaraUchiha I tend to just share "war stories" in job interviews
 
@tereško Where did you end up job wise btw?
 
currently working at Dyninno
nothing to write home about, but seems ok
 
Better than the last place?
 
yes
 
9:29 PM
That's good I suppose, though I wish you'd take something that doesn't require building sites.
 
Ekn
lol
something similar happened to me in a weird way :D
 
I hope you weren't on the receiving end at least :P
 
Ekn
someone on quora messaged me saying nice stuff on things I wrote
then when I didn't answer, like maybe a few hrs later
he wrote omg I was just kiddin u stupid
 
lol. I think the kids call those guys "eBoys" these days.
 
@Ekn I think you wondered into Tinder by accident
 
Ekn
9:36 PM
huh I never used that and very honestly I don't know what it's features are :p
 
Duck facing. -_-
basically think of hot or not. Except you swipe left for no, right for yes. If the person you swipe right on also swipes right on you a match is made. You can then message or be messaged by this person. Location based too.
 
Ekn
hrrm I see
 
Wes
is there something in jeevs i can use now for my usual !!eval random_int?
!!should i have dinner or have a coffee
 
You should have dinner.
 
Wes
wow
 
Ekn
9:46 PM
!!will AI take over the world?
 
Wes
!!is jeeves skynet?
 
Let me think about it … wait … yes … well actually, no.
 
Wes
!!are you sure?
 
!!how do I master the dark arts?
 
9:47 PM
Let me think about it … dunno …
 
Ekn
!!should Fabor master the dark arts?
 
Dunno.
 
Ekn
@Jeeves you know nothing
 
Wes
!!can you be less useful than that?
 
Of course I should master the dark arts.
Silly Jeeves
Now where did I put my ASP.NET book.
 
Wes
9:56 PM
you mean ASP3
 
heh. Dark not evil.
Ugh. Haven't even considered the notion of work tomorrow. Save me.
 
Ekn
10:07 PM
tutturuu time to switch to whiskey
 
That's such a cute noise in that anime :P
 
Ekn
okariiiin
heh
 
Also, Whisky... :-/ too strong for me.
 
Wes
@Ekn that reminds me the wishlist of derick derickrethans.nl/who.html (in the sidebar). there's obviously a connection between php and that
 
Ekn
:D
 
10:12 PM
Derick bought me a drink a little under a year ago. Nice guy.
 
Wes
...and then you punched him because of ext/date?
 
lol. It was a civil outing :P PHP South Coast 2015.
 
Wes
:P
 
Tis a good song.
 
Ekn
10:16 PM
I am all out of playlists again
literally consuming music
 
om nom nom
Chance the rapper has some good songs.
After any particular genre though?
 
Ekn
not really at this point, but I should avoid depressive stuff for sanity
 
Wes
 
@bwoebi I might be able to spend some time either at work, or more realistically wednesday evening. tbh I think this is an RFC that some people will need to have some time to get used to....pushing for 7.1 might meet quite a bit of resistance....
 
Wes
twitter is destroying top gear
 
Wes
\o Ray
 
Wes
@Danack prejudice? i've sadly watched it, and it was sad
 
@Ekn I dunno, sometimes I listen to the stuff that matches my mood.
 
Ekn
yeah mostly I do the same as well, but.. better I avoid this time
 
10:21 PM
It's hard to know whether distraction is delaying or passing through.
 
Wes
i feel embarrassed for the guy that was struggling trying to do what clarkson did so majestically
 
@Ekn Reading is working for me. I can't imagine whisky would though :P
Well that and finding new people to converse with.
An interesting ... uhh... not fact but thing I read about twice in the last two days from different sources is that people who are blind from birth who then gain their sight in later life still can't tell the difference between shapes until they touch them. Interesting aye?
 
Ekn
well, whisky is good to numb it a bit.. but the best for me is to keep myself focused on the personal projects.. when mixed it can be super effective
 
Ekn used whisky and PHP. It's super effective!
 
Ekn
and that "It's so fluffy!!!" effect of a husky
 
10:27 PM
heh. I'd love a husky with heterochromia.
 
Ekn
:)
 
Working on anything cool?
 
Looks nice enough.
 
Ekn
it's a bit different than that already, trying to not bother with colors and all yet
 
10:30 PM
@Danack initial drafts were already proposed a while ago … It's not like we'd mention it for the first time ever now. Also, there's a vote on having only |null instead of ? too… hence it need s to be voted on now
 
Yeah colours are definitely not my forte. Well I should tar the whole of design with that brush.
!!wotd
 
doughty: steadfastly courageous and resolute; valiant.
 
@Danack But I'd appreciate if you could do it ASAP… thanks a lot :-)
 
10:47 PM
@Ocramius s/smelled/stunk/ … The function call overhead is just too big for this to be actually faster, yeah.
 
morning roomies
 
Wes
@Ekn use #FA6EAD for what i believe is a camera
 
Ekn
actually that's gonna be something for slides and images both
I used a retro camera for now only, though I'll need an icon that'd represent it better
but I liked the color, thx
 
Wes
mh yeah it's a strange icon for a camera :B but remember: i'm drunk
 
Ekn
in order, 1st is something to quickly bookmark links etc, 2nd is for pdf/books, 3rd for slides/presentations/images, 4th quick search in a few places, 5th note taking etc
 
Wes
10:52 PM
looked like a 5.25 floppy from here :B
 
Ekn
:D yeah
 
Wes
the best thing about icon fonts is that they break every chrome update
i tried to maintain an icon font with the icons mapped to the actual relative unicode code point but after few months all the icons fallbacked to the chrome default font
 
Ekn
:/
 
Wes
who knows why. it's chrome. nothing works in chrome
on chrome for android sometimes icons unload while you are scrolling
and they get replaced with a square
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ chrome
 
Ekn
^ indeed
 
Wes
11:02 PM
if you use icomoon i have a kind of updated selection that seems to be working (at least on my computer)
but it's just few icons, as i had to remove the non working ones
gist.githubusercontent.com/WesNetmo/… this is icomoon.io's selection.json file in case you are interested :B
 
Ekn
oh thanks, will check that one in a moment
 
Wes
used to contains about 200 glyphs, only half survived
🔥
 
Ekn
heh
 
11:18 PM
@bwoebi Okay.
 
Wes
11:38 PM
..i....need......coffee... [while crawling on the ground]
 
in a backreference are {}'s only used to differentiate between numbers? For example $1 is the same as ${1} but you need {} if it was something like ${1}2? Can't seem to find documentation on it
 
@LeviMorrison By the way. If you want help on writing/dealing with an RFC to replace void with null, I'm willing.
2
wow, that got starred?
 
Wes
yes, i did that :P
 
I already wrote the first half of a patch to do that.
This isn't an endorsement of the idea, mind you.
(said patch‌​)
 
Wes
at least you are being honest to allow people to decide with a vote
 
11:51 PM
"like was" means "me too" ?
 
Wes
now i stopped caring but void is strange, would rather have null if people agree
otherwise beer will fix caring too much about these things
 
Ekn
@Shafizadeh "likewise" can be used to mean "me too" or rather "in the same way"
 
Ah I see
 

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