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Anonymous
12:07 AM
Is it worth searching for a file in other torrent sites, if you can't find it in PB?
 
I usually use TPB when using bing to search for something rare
And even then I try other options, if possible
 
Anonymous
For some reason, I think they all share the same content. I can't seem to find anything in KAT, if I can't find it in TPB and vise versa
 
Try searching using bing (google tends to filter torrent results)
 
12:23 AM
searching things on bing is probably the last advice I'd expected to hear here
 
bing is actually superior on certain content (streams and torrents mainly, even legal ones). Also it beat google on queries containing special characters and symbols until the last noteable search algo update from google, imo
 
I just never tried. I hate things that want to install bars on my browser without explicitely asking me. (no, a prechecked checkbox while update flash player is not explicit)
 
they still do that? Only thing I forgot to uncheck recently was that mcafee thing when I rebuilt my win10 vm
 
12:38 AM
@ircmaxell currently listening to your PHP world keynote… I'm just a bit irritated that you are classifying communities by frameworks. No real idea how to put it better, but it feels a bit weird…
 
whats your opinion on becoming your own CA root, so browsers trust you
 
@JustinKaz or just use letsencrypt.org ?
 
so how do i get one
 
Do they still have that 3 months max lifetime for certificates issued by them? So no way to sanely pin a cert for non browser?
 
by reading the documentation and waiting for the public beta to open in about 2 weeks.
@Rangad I'm sure that was only for testing period. They didn't want test certs floating around.
 
12:43 AM
lol
it seems very easy to be included in mozilla's list dont just screw up
 
Looks like it's permanent (atleast for now) Source. Well, shouldn't be a big issue for the majority of their intended user base.
 
@ircmaxell anyway… Yep… PHP and its community are awesome :-) And so was your talk!
 
@Rangad interesting, yeah people using the service should have no problem setting up a cron to renew every 90 days. Public-Key-Pins would need to set at 90 days as well and also be included in the automation process. I haven't looked at the source, but it's suppose to modify server configs if you choose so to automatically add https to servers. Maybe it also adds the updated pins?
 
1:02 AM
Quick search doesn't reveal anything in that regard, just an open issue that according to their spec the tool "should" support public key pinning (but currently does not).
 
 
1 hour later…
2:17 AM
what does anyone think about asking the client to install a Root Certificate into the trusted store?
 
Hey guys.
I dev php based application, it was working prefectly no error anything in my centos box, but my where it being deployed is a windows server (i know cringe).. anyways they are running XAMPP
when i zipped the whole root folder up and moved it over.. the script fails some basic errors.. PHP Notice: Undefined variable:
so is it a misconfiguration of the server or somthing else??
 
 
1 hour later…
Abe
3:26 AM
mornings
 
3:43 AM
morning
@Abe o/
 
@Arsalan all this means is the error reporting is more thorough on your deployment server. that is why notices (that is, non critical errors such as variables not being defined) will appear
that being said, they should not appear on screen by default. you can change this behavior at runtime with ini_set and error_reporting
 
Abe
@ircmaxell great speech, really
6
 
mornin anmol
 
Abe
morning folks
i didn't know about joe
and you guys are great!
 
4:11 AM
@Abe which speech?
 
Abe
it's the first pinned ->
hm, no backtrace for goto jumps. will need to change something
 
4:49 AM
moin
 
'nin
 
posted on November 21, 2015 by krakjoe

This is the first supported release for PHP7.

 
deja vu ... I broke the windows build
 
Abe
\o
 
5:03 AM
it's not that surprising, I'm always breaking stuff ...
 
Abe
:D
 
Abe
5:17 AM
weather changed suddenly. we had a nearly summer surprising weather till yesterday, but now it could even snow... a temperature drop of 15-20°c
the hell
 
the weather never changes here, rains all the fucking time ...
it can be summer, having a bbq, and it'll rain ...
what's really strange is, that everyone finds this normal ... I don't, I think it's odd to stand with an umbrella and bbq in the rain, I think it makes you look crazy, but my fellow country men and women have no problem with it ...
 
Abe
lol i guess you just have to get used to it. if it always rains complaining would be pointless :D
 
maybe, but we don't have to be crazy either ... you're in your back garden, maybe 30 yards at most from the oven ... just go inside ...
I don't normally complain, but rain is ruining my life ...
once my kids are educated and standing on their own two feet, I'm leaving the country ...
 
Abe
youtube.com/watch?v=NSk-mjxvjJE&t=37 warning explicit language :D
 
5:33 AM
lol
 
good morning
 
Abe
i don't remember who, said that rain made britain great. people spent time studying, inventing, rather than spending time in the outside doing nothing. it's kinda sad but probably true
 
5:55 AM
moin @Orangepill
 
morning joe
 
Abe
6:05 AM
\o
 
6:19 AM
@bwoebi That's not how I classified community. That's how I classified ecosystem
 
morning @ircmaxell
 
yo
just about to go to bed
been a long day :-)
 
sleep well :)
 
6:40 AM
2 messages moved to Trash can
 
Abe
7:06 AM
i think i'm missing that part of the brain that is capable of writing a parser
 
Are any of you core devs using JetBrains CLion IDE for coding C? I want to start learning it, but don't know what IDE I should use.
PStorm use to have a C plugin, but it's no longer available since I think 8.0
@Abe what you trying to parse?
 
Abe
a type declaration with generics, like "class Foo<$T1 is Bar, $T2 is Qux> extends Baz<$T1> implements Stuff"
i nearly did it, but there is something wrong i can't figure
 
7:21 AM
source on Github?
 
Abe
not yet
found it!
yahoo
i forgot an echo "rofl";
 
I understand the code, but I still don't understand why.
 
Abe
do you know what generic types are?
class Foo<$T1 is Bar>{
   function test(T1 $foo){ }
}
$x = new Foo<Bar>();
 
7:39 AM
let me ask Google
 
Abe
class MyArray<$T1 is Object>{
    function add(T1 $content){}
}
$x = new MyArray<Stuff>();
$x->add(new Stuff); // ok
$x->add(new Bar); // fail
 
how different is it from function foo(Bar|int|string $val) reading the RFC
 
Abe
that's an union type
 
nvm, I'm dumb
3
 
Abe
nope, what's between <> is a type used (as function parameter or return type) by the declared type
 
7:46 AM
oooooooh, so depending on the generic type you can change the typehints for the methods based on the typehint of the class?
 
Abe
class MyArray<$T1 is Stuff>{
    function add(T1 $content){}
    function first(): T1{}
}
class Stuff{}
class Stuff2 extends Stuff{}
$x = new MyArray<Stuff>();
$x->add(new Stuff); // ok
$x->add(new Stuff2); // ok
$x->first() // instance of Stuff

$x = new MyArray<Stuff2>();
$x->add(new Stuff); // fail (must be Stuff2)
$x->add(new Stuff2); // ok
$x->first() // instance of Stuff2
@crypticツ correct
(though, i didn't star "i'm dumb" :P)
 
Abe
yes
that is fun stuff and doesn't really work. what i'm trying to make is something that is good to try out generics before any attempt to implement them in php. levimorrison ircmaxell and others want them and hopefully this small lib i'm making can help them out
 
8:02 AM
@crypticツ and i just dropped the idea of learning it
 
haha
 
Abe
@NullPoiиteя booo
reminds me the old days, @crypticツ @NullPoiиteя and me in the php room boldly going where no noob has gone before
 
I still love and miss those days :(
 
Abe
[message:protected] => Unexpected end of declaration.
aw.
 
8:55 AM
Hi!
 
9:19 AM
hi
 
9:32 AM
morning
 
10:23 AM
hi
 
@ircmaxell uh, you did actually both You spoke multiple times about "the <framework> community".
 
10:46 AM
@Patrick Hey Pat's how's your book coming along?
@bwoebi Whatever it is, his speech was amazing. ;]
 
@Abe which speech?
 
Abe
it's pinned
 
no it is not ... (or maybe it is but I can not found it)
7 hours ago, by Abe
@ircmaxell great speech, really
 
11:08 AM
@Abe tnx
 
11:49 AM
Morning
 
Abe
the flying dutchman yo!
 
12:33 PM
morning y'all! \o/
 
Heya @iroegbu
/me is still wondering whether to take on a foss applications downloads site as a weekend project
 
you can finish it in one weekend?
 
If I keep it simple i probably can
 
then you should start... life is short
 
I mean I can steal a design and I already have a lot of libraries so I only would need to code the application itself
I will need some help from somebody to design a logo and some pages though
And a name obviously
 
12:40 PM
you will get those... start.
 
Lets see what domains are available
Does fossdownloads sound ok?
Or perhaps openbinaries?
@iroegbu @Abe
 
I like "foss", don't like "downloads"
I like "open", can manage "binaries"
fossbinaries maybe
 
Abe
fossdownload downloadfoss getfoss
@PeeHaa ^
getfo.ss
 
I'd avoid foss, has bad connotation
just use oss
 
Abe
geto.ss
 
12:52 PM
FOSS for me is connected to FSF which is connected to the GPL maffia
6
 
Yeah that is certainly a valid point
@Abe Looks like only sudan itself gves out their domains?
 
Abe
getoss.ed <- rofl
 
Not sure I like the sound of tossed :P
 
Abe
:P
 
1:08 PM
ok installing centos...
Uggggghhhh default TTL of domain 1 day :|
I hate it when they do that
ossbinaries.com it is for now
 
@PeeHaa got a new box to set up?
 
Abe
@LeviMorrison would you explicitly disallow A|B|(C|D) ? (useless parentheses)
 
@tereško Yeah
 
private or are you "playing in sysadmins" for a client?
 
private
 
1:22 PM
at least there is that
 
The only sysadminning I do for client is: Hey I need new shiny feature X imma upgrade your php yo
 
Hi I am a web developer, I need your help!!
 
Abe
@PeeHaa the only thing i know so far about that vps is that chinese are attacking it
i'm getting like 100 Fail2Ban notifications daily
 
I need to make an algorithm through which we can handle double elimination problem
 
@Abe Yeah I use a non default port for ssh to prevent log spam
 
Anonymous
1:24 PM
@Abe do you use portknocking?
 
Abe
@samayo no idea what is that
 
@abe
 
Abe
@PeeHaa suggest a port?
 
Can u please help me
 
@Abe Anything somewhat high and not used by something you need
 
Anonymous
1:25 PM
3967
 
@Abe what's the point?
just disable root login for SSH and use keys with passphrase for login of normal users
 
That too
 
if someone will decide to make a serious attempt at cracking your box, the first thing you see will be a full port scan
just obscuring ports will have no effect
 
It's not a matter of security
It's a matter of log clutter
 
Anonymous
but still, it kinda adds a thin layer of security.
 
1:33 PM
No it does not
It's like putting the lock on your door not in the middle but at the top of the door
It does nothing in terms of security
 
@PeeHaa well .. it might prevent you yourself from entering, because you forgot where did you put the lock
 
Anonymous
I think it does. If you see it in terms of making it a bit harder for a script kiddie at least.
 
@samayo Harder how? As @tereško said you just do a port scan
 
@samayo have you actually used a port scanner before?
 
Anonymous
Yes, I have.
 
1:36 PM
@tereško I used to prevent ssh from only my own IP. That was a terrible idea
6
 
@PeeHaa :D
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa security through obscurity
 
there is no such thing
 
A moment of silence please ;)
 
Anonymous
19
Q: Isn't a password a form of security through obscurity?

Davy8I know that security through obscurity is frowned upon and considered not really secure, but isn't a password security through obscurity? It's only secure so long as no one finds it. Is it just a matter of the level of obscurity? (i.e. a good password well salted and hashed is impractical to br...

 
1:39 PM
@samayo Read the actual answer
 
@samayo password is a proof of secret knowledge
 
if you use ans SSH key, you authenticate using a proof of ownership
 
Anonymous
@tereško so is obscurity?
 
Anonymous
anyway, .. too early for a debate.
 
1:41 PM
@samayo NO
it is not a debate
password IS NOT a form of obscurity
 
@samayo so everything is obscurity :/ ( this looks more like there is no light discussion )
 
Abe
have no idea what you guys are saying
 
.. neither has @samayo
 
Abe
i only know that a 4 characters password is already too hard for me to remember
xD
 
Keepass or GTFO
 
1:43 PM
A password is a secret
secrets by definition are required to be kept secret to remain secure
algorithms should not be secret, as it's much harder to hide an algorithm than a secret
not to mention that a flaw in an algorithm can make it easier to guess and bypass than a flaw in a secret (key/password)
obscurity is masking insecurity by trying to make a non-secret secret
 
Anonymous
All I am saying is that, if you make anything even 1% harder for a potential attacker, it should be considered a security measure. After all, it's all about protecting something from someone.
 
or installing security camera while keeping doors open, and sleeping
 
@samayo yes! Using obscurity is a valid technique
HOWEVER
you should never rely on obscurity
 
Anonymous
Yeah, I wouldn't rely on it entirely. But, only as an accessory.
 
Your biggest flaw is thinking it adds security which it just doesn't do
Never done and never will
 
Abe
2:14 PM
\o/ pastebin.com/qS0Q8LGq much nicer in json
 
2:39 PM
writing an INSERT` query in the ____construct() is a normal thing? (I want to increase the number of viewed for each posts). well, is it a normal thing?
 
Hi friends
<3
Anyone know magento?
 
Hi, does anyone consider such callable format is common/uncommon to use in PHP7 - [$test, 'run'](42) (3v4l.org/k8Vvk)
From consistency point of view this is wonderful that callable now unified, but are there any pros/cons, hidden corners, drawbacks?
 
@zaq178miami using that format is good - the cons are that the 'callable' format is a bit mucked up wiki.php.net/rfc/consistent_callables
If you use them correctly, there shouldn't be an issue.
 
I know this isn't a PHP question...does anyone know if an app can determine if the screen on a phone is broken?
 
@SuperNoob almost certainly not. There could be APIs for querying the hardware status, but I doubt they are exposed in non-Jailbroken phones.
What problem are you trying to solve that would require that?
 
2:54 PM
@Danack Thanks, the main point for me here which typehint to choose: \Closure or just callable. I'm stuck a bit here (both works, but as for Closure, it may lead to some overhead to wrap anything into Closure, even plain callable).
 
Not really trying to solve a problem. This idea came from a conversation that involved a lot of alcohol last night. Just curious if that functionality existed natively, or if you could hack it together
 
and what are estimates for that rfc about callables consistency? Does it discused and/or adopted by internals community?
 
@zaq178miami my rule is...if it's going to be used in a setup and referenced on each request, then use callable. If it's an executable 'thing' to be passed around, closures are better, as they have a consistent calling convention.
 
I'm thinking that yuo could figure it out by requesting the user run their finger around the border and record onTouchEvent(), where there are gaps...it's broken.
 
@zaq178miami It should be implemented for PHP 8. So...I don't recommend holding your breath for it.
 
2:57 PM
)) i try to stick to 7 for now
i guess discussions about specifying callable return type lead to nothing for now, is it true?
here is reddit thread about it idea - reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/2lhdto/…
 
@zaq178miami er - seems to work for me 3v4l.org/WjGnK
It was done as part of the return type RFC.
 
i mean something like function foo(callable $bar : int) {}
 
I'll be the first to admit I don't know what the hell I'm doing...but I thought that (Something $something) hinted at what arguments you should pass and the doc-blocks told you what the return was? PHP 7 is adding an additional return hinting?
 
That RFC hasn't been presented to the list, and I suspect it is unlikely to pass.
 
I'm sure this has good reasoning behind it...why?
 
3:04 PM
Why what?
 
Why is this added? No matter what the function is going to return what the function is going to return...why add this rung of additional language to prove that the function is going to return, what it's going to return?
I must be misunderstanding somethign
 
function foo() : int {
    return "bar";
}
foo(); //This throws an exception as an int isn't returned.
aka it's for enforcing type correctness at run-time.
And it also allows static analysis tools to detect type correctness before the code is run.
 
Ohhhh...so it's less about what the function does, and more about enforcing the return, thus enforcing the input.
so if I try to run foo("banana") it forces an error because "banana" is not an int
 
Oh wow, your nick is my spirit animal @SuperNoob
:D
Goes back to lurking
 
@Gemtastic, the more I learn the more SuperNoob I feel...
 
3:09 PM
That's a good sign
 
I liked it better when I "knew everything" 15 years ago. Those were the good days.
 
"The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know." -- Socrates
I know something. But not much PHP. I got a crash course in it the other day
 
Totally made me understand why a lot of people start learning programming with PHP and also why skilled PHP devs are amazing.
 
For me the appeal is the ability to quickly hack together something functional, or to build a clean and well designed OOP system...or to combine both.
Try doing that in C or Java and your IDE fills up with angry red lines
 
3:14 PM
@SuperNoob Although.. if that's the only way you use the knowledge of power, you're using it wrong. But it does follow the 2 rules to how to become powerful: 1. Never tell everyone everything you know.
 
No, that's what I feel other people do to me :D
 
You get surprisingly far with logic alone
 
3:35 PM
ugggghhh selinux is such a pita
 
3:47 PM
Afternoon peoples
I've been sent an exercise as a test for a new job, supposedly a simple screen scraper that will follow links from a base page, and build an array of data from the linked pages..... supposedly shouldn't take any longer than about two hours
Seems reasonable, except that the content of the base page (all those links that I'm supposed to follow) is generated by obfuscated javascript
I'm looking at proxying the curl requests through PhantomJS; but does two hours still seem like a reasonable estimate for all the necessary set-up, config, writing tests, writing code, documenting, etc?
 
writing code alone is reasonable in two hours… doing everything else too… no.
 
@MarkBaker Maybe if it was written in just Javascript? It doesn't seem appropriate for a PHP test....
 
This is a PHP test
 
if scraping is your business, this is a common task
 
@JoeWatkins - That I'd have guessed, though surely even then you'd expect to have the proxying infrastructure in place already.... the very fact that I'll have to document setting up and configuring a proxy adds extra time to the 2 hrs
 
3:59 PM
if the infrastructure is already there, it's a twenty minute thing, right ?
so put together the bare minimum infrastructure, talk about how you might extend it for the real world, 2 hours seems okay to me ...
they're not deploying whatever you write ...
got a link to the page, curious ?
 
Probably not deploying, but I imagine they'd want to test that the code actually works
 
Hello
does anyone here know laravel 5?
 
@Mark looks to me like you can request the content, given an id and some other stuff ...
I'd look to do it that way first ... see if you can find the endpoints they use to create content/searches and manipulate those directly ...
 
0
Q: Cannot find Laravel routes file

divHelper11I started new project in laravel 5. Unfortunatelly, I can't find routes.php file in any folder. I dont have folders mentioned in documentation. Should I create it myself or what to do now?

 
It makes me feel like they're after recruiting professional screen scrapers rather than simply generic PHP devs
 
4:07 PM
there's no such thing as a professional screen scraper
 
@JoeWatkins yes there are. I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of the top 5 job categories for PHP devs....
 
4:23 PM
I'd think it a strange job advert
php isn't a language I would choose to create such a platform ...
 
Companies like MoneySupermarket hire devs to do very little beyond keeping their scrapers up-to-date with all the dom changes to the sites that they scrape... sould destroying work, and one of the highest turnover rates in the NorthWest/North Wales
A lot of that is PHP-based
 
I wrote a price comparison platform ...
shall remain unnamed ...
php is suitable for some stuff, but not backend stuff, not the platform itself ...
so what's the job description ?? is it the kind of place that you will end up doing this all the time, or is it just part of it ?
it might be as simple as the last guy/girl made a hash of this stuff when it was given him/her as a task ...
 
4:40 PM
It's not a purely technical problem that can be solved with the 'correct' solution. If the people whose data it was wanted you to use it, they would provide an API to use that data. It's an arms race between the scrapers and the content producers. So screen scrapers need almost constant attention.
 
Writing a INSERT query in the __construct() is a normal thing? some thing like this:
class classname {

    private $post_id;
    public function __construct($post_id) {

        $this->post_id = $post_id;

        INSERT IGNORE INTO viewed (post_id, username)
                           VALUES ($this->post_id, $_SESSION['username']);
    }

}
 
not much point in saying much more, can't show you anything ... maintenance doesn't require the skills of a developer the majority of the time, ideally you want yourself in a position where the maintenance can be done by relatively unskilled labour
 
@Shafizadeh ^no
 
@Shafizadeh no, never. Constructors should never do as much work as that.
 
@Shafizadeh Generally a constructor should not do much beyond taking arguments and assigning them to properties
It should not do any real work
And it should definitely not perform queries
 
4:52 PM
@NikiC ah, tnx
@Danack ok tnx :-)
So should I write that INSERT query in the each method?
its job is increasing viewed number for each posts
 
Can we please drop that the args aren't evaluated in case the ctor doesn't exist…?
basically make new stdClass(print 1); actually print 1 …
even though it has no ctor
… would simplify implementation. \cc @NikiC ?
I hate special cases … :-D
 
@JoeWatkins - I'm surprised that screen scraping is any part of it, to be honest.... it's a large company that has previously outsourced all their back-end IT systems to a myriad of companies, and has decided to bring it all in-house and need to get it all sorted out..... but stock control, retail, logistics, etc doesn't generally require a lot of screen scraping
 
@bwoebi I'm fine with it
I don't like that it introduces an additional unnecessary join point in the cfg
 
A company with no previous track record in tests, agile, development, etc wanting to build a fully integrated in-house set of systems, with all the latest in best-practise
 
@bwoebi btw, do you plan to fix that generator bug?
If you don't have time I can look into it, but it sounded like you had already found the issue
 
4:59 PM
I haven't given it a deeper look yet… I just found the issue, but haven't thought about how to fix it yet.
currently in the middle of something else: first evaluating the args, then pushing it onto stack frame … simplifies some cleanup routines and even would allow what Dmitry suggested with stackless generators
 
@bwoebi oh yeah, with the live ranges that should be possible now
 
precisely
 
@bwoebi you'll be evaluating args between evaluating the callee and pushing the args?
 
before evaluating the callee.
first eval args, then init_, then send_ and call.
hence I need to put the NEW after the arg eval to have it belonging to the call
Else I am going to have issues freeing it…
 
Predictorama! Two people will vote against that change.
 
5:10 PM
Stas… and…?
 
The guy who put it in there.
aka our Dear Leader.
 
5:23 PM
@NikiC do you know what that TODO means? lxr.php.net/xref/PHP_MASTER/Zend/zend_compile.c#2879
 
5:34 PM
@bwoebi why not after evaluating callee (as is now?)
 
@NikiC because evaluating callee already creates the call frame
 
@bwoebi Ah, I think I wanted to add an explicit error for call-time pass by reference. You can drop the TODO, it's not relevant anymore
@bwoebi and is that a problem?
 
at least for stackless generators, yes.
 
ah
I see
hm okay
I guess that's fine then
@bwoebi hey, I'll be seeing you tomorrow at dinner right?
 
right
 
5:39 PM
yay :)
 
 
3 hours later…
8:16 PM
am I really out of track here? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/310795/…
 
gah… these func_arg fetches :-(
 
@bwoebi heh
 
I know you already complained
I need to do the func_arg fetch along with the arg passing ops… but I don't want the dependencies of the func_arg fetch to be there too… I'd like to evaluate them separately.
 
This is going to be ugly
 
yeah…
there's something about delayed ops there
maybe I'll be able to use that…
 
8:28 PM
@NikiC call-time argument pass-by-reference should be allowed if the parameter is a reference
it makes referenceness explicit
 
@Andrea s/allowed/required/ :-)
 
@Andrea only worthwhile if it were required
 
@bwoebi I wish :)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier He also "reviewed" this
@FélixGagnon-Grenier and this stackoverflow.com/questions/33848079/…
 
well.. let's hope he will see the meta question and think about it..!
 
8:30 PM
Not sure what reviewed means, but I didn't see any close votes
But I am clueless how that review thing actually works
 
don't you do reviews on main site?
 
Not really
 
I see :)
let's just say there is a great deal of second and third pair of eyes that see posts on so to try and filter the crap
this specific user apparently is not trying very hard on that specific review
which makes me question his relevance as a moderator, at least until he says that this was a single overlookance
which would be very fine
 
Also looks like one user just started editing tag wikis by adding tags all approved by said person
 
hey guys can anyone guide me as to techniques i can use to prioritize user requirements for a software system i am developing
 
I don't deal with tag wikis much...
 
Neh. Main is doomed either way whether a robo reviewer is mod or a dog
 
:-)
 
Yah I know. I'm still going against the current from time to time
 
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