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8:05 PM
@AndreaFaulds c++ is full of great things implemented in jaw-droppingly godawful ways
scalar type declarations is down to 70%
had 3 no votes come in back-to-back
 
From three users I've never heard of.
 
thorstenr I have
 
@ircmaxell it's always worth a try if you can get away without a RFC :-D
 
@bwoebi which is why I said that :-)
 
@ircmaxell Too close to call for at least a week yet
 
8:17 PM
@Sara in case we don't need a RFC, no issue
It's just fixing weird edge cases which shouldn't exist ^^
 
well, it's been hovering between 70% and 76% since it opened... that doesn't mean anything, but it's pretty in-line with expectations from Andrea's proposal + people who said they voted against it because of declare
 
@ircmaxell Yeah, that's how I'm reading the progress too
 
I'm still unsure… Might vote either way… mhhh…
 
@bwoebi please do vote. Which ever way you feel is appropriate (for or against). Just do vote
 
Is there any news of the coercive RFC? I think there will be quite a few people waiting to vote on the 0.5 one, who are waiting to see the final version of the other one first.
 
8:22 PM
@Danack none
 
Why is Levi still hugging the no camp?
 
@ircmaxell Yeah, I'll vote… but I'm just not sure yet. Luckily I still have a few days…
 
@Danack he has until Sunday to make the final proposal
 
@Leigh GET OFF MY LAWN WITH YOUR SWITCHABLE STRICTNESS! IN MY DAY INTERPRETED LANGUAGES ONLY HAD ONE TYPE SYSTEM.
 
</CAps>
 
8:23 PM
@Leigh He thinks we're rushing into the decision. Which is actually a fair point and I agree, but I don't think the people who pretend not to understand the RFC will ever have a reasonable discussion about how to make it better.
 
@Danack I agree with Levi… That's an important factor… And I'm not sure what to vote because of that.
 
Meh, just get the type system in, force it strict afterwards
 
@Leigh Seeing how long it has taken to get any scalars in, I doubt that would ever happen.
 
@Leigh I think I'd immediate vote yes on just getting typesystem in.
 
@Danack Can do it with an ext. My PHP is going to be strict by default.
 
8:27 PM
@bwoebi I think the implementation is good enough - even if we could get a marginally better one, it wouldn't be at least until PHP 8 probably - judging more by people's behaviour, rather than technical reasons.
@Leigh I like being able to use other people's libraries, which probably won't work with strict all the things.
 
@Danack The impl is not the issue… the proposal of dual mode / strict mode is.
 
@Danack Ah OK, well, I have no sympathy there :)
 
@bwoebi strict mode is the most useful mode to me....but it seems that having just that would never pass. If you want strict scalars - this RFC is the only chance (custom PHP builds aside).
 
^ +1
 
@Danack I have experimental "sticky" mode kinda working. You can declare(strict_types = 1 + 'STICKY'); to force compilations descending from that file to be strict (or not)
 
8:30 PM
@Danack I don't want to discuss that again.
 
user895378
@Danack +1
 
user895378
strict only will never happen. dual mode is the only way to get it.
 
user895378
So strict is either valuable or it isn't.
 
user895378
@Tyrael I'm so glad you fixed the alphabetical ordering in NEWS, BTW. That was really bothering me but wasn't sure if it was my place to fix it.
 
I'd want to make weak less unappealing.
 
8:38 PM
Agreed; The only viable options are "weak only" and "dual mode". "strict only" never had a hope of taking off.
 
@rdlowrey ext/openssl/tests/bug68920.phpt segfaulted on travis: travis-ci.org/php/php-src/jobs/53237711
 
user895378
@Tyrael working on it ...
 
thanks
(and there is still one php_error_docref without TSRMLS_CC in xp_ssl.c)
 
@Sara and some of us assert that weak-only didn't have a hope simply because enough people want strict...
which I know you know, just sayin
 
oh, that has TSRMLS_CC at the wrong place
 
8:48 PM
What could be done to weak mode to strengthen it without getting in the way, though?
I thought the point of the weak/strong divide is that anything done to make weak less weak ended up being a problem.
 
user895378
@Tyrael where are you seeing that?
 
SKIP Bug #65538: SSL context "cafile" disallows URL stream wrappers [ext/openssl/tests/bug65538_002.phpt] reason: online test

TEST 5507/12662 [ext/openssl/tests/bug68920.phpt]

========DIFF========

014+ Segmentation fault

014-
oh, you mean the TSRMLS_CC ?
at "Invalid peer_fingerprint array; [algo => fingerprint] form required"
 
./vendor/bin/phpmd -h
> Warning: date_default_timezone_get(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are required to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in ...
Yeah fuck you too
Feb 23 at 18:49, by Derick
@bwoebi I don't understand your motivation. I see it as another "let's annoy Derick" thing. I will however, revert it.
 
@PeeHaa It's still not reverted in master, just fyi ;-)
 
I know :)
 
8:56 PM
@ircmaxell nope
 
yeah, I keep track of it now
I added a compiler global (pointer to the current namespace ast)
 
@rdlowrey ok so there were two wrong TSRMLS_CC'es
 
user895378
@Tyrael three I think :)
 
right
where you passed TSRMLS_CC as the last
param to php_error_docref
 
yay
 
9:01 PM
fixing those fixed the test
(and ofc. that's not really passing as it is macro expansion, but whatever)
 
tomorrow my 34'' monitor is arriving
 
user895378
@Tyrael yeah for me locally too. I was confused by the output of run-tests.php with -m enabled because it still puts the test in Tests leaked : 1 (100.0%) (100.0%) but doesn't report anything leaking
 
the leaks are in the mem file
afair
I mean I don't think we print the leaks to the console
 
user895378
oh
 
(maybe with --show-leaks or something)
 
user895378
9:04 PM
I see it now, thanks.
 
teh valgrind output is in ext/openssl/tests/bug68920.mem
(for this test)
 
user895378
openssl sucks because it has so many warnings it makes valgrind output enormous.
 
user895378
I'm going to go ahead and push the the tsrmls things and keep looking.
 
thanks
thats enough for me for now
(and let me know if you want something to be merged into 5.6.7 final after RC1 is tagged)
 
user895378
@Tyrael sure thing. Thanks for working with me.
 
9:13 PM
nah, sorry for not reporting it sooner :)
 
user895378
I'm trying to go through and fix all the outstanding openssl reports over the next few weeks.
 
Sara's php-src rule #3: ALWAYS ./configure with --enable-maintainer-zts
 
user895378
Well the legitimate ones anyway.
 
Rule #2 is --enable-debug
 
user895378
So you might have to hassle me some more ;)
 
9:14 PM
Rule #3 is USE_ZEND_ALLOC=0 ZEND_DONT_UNLOAD_MODULES=1 ?
 
No, #3 is --enable-maintainer-zts :p
Rule #1 is: Never read internals@
 
user895378
I thought that was Rule #42.
 
9:28 PM
Hm... if there'd just be Generator::__invoke that maps to ::send
 
user895378
interesting
 
user895378
@m6w6 Do you have a specific use-case in mind?
 
@m6w6 ($gen = gen())(); incoming…
 
I don't think in terms of use-cases :p
 
@Sara yet for some reason we all do
 
9:32 PM
Just thought it would be nice if I hadn't to differentiate between a generator and a general callable
 
@ircmaxell I ordered a 30 pack of Kayla's PHPcorn
 
user895378
@m6w6 It seems like a nice feature. I'm trying to think if there are any drawbacks ...
 
@rdlowrey yeah, this probably doesn't need a RFC either.
 
user895378
Conceptually it makes sense to be able to call the paused function to resume its execution.
 
btw, if you haven't seen it yet:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/940438815/phpopcorn
 
9:35 PM
@m6w6 and returns the next yielded value?
 
@Sara seriously? awesome
 
@ircmaxell We're going to enjoy a few bags as your RFC counts down
 
I'm fairly convinced that Yoasuo is not hijacking the mailing list intentionally. He really has a language barrier and misinterprets some things we say or|and give confuse replies sometimes.
 
Well, it'll be closed by then, but in spirit
 
user895378
Feb 26 at 14:24, by rdlowrey
It's unfortunate that Yasuo has a language barrier. I'm sure he's probably very smart but it's usually quite difficult to see the point in his proposals.
 
9:37 PM
ok, good to know it's not only my opinion ^^
 
@Sara :-)
 
@bwoebi if the yield got an arg, yes?
 
@m6w6 yeah, else null, which is default.
 
user895378
I can't think of any drawbacks for __invoke() -> send() and it makes sense conceptually. Sounds like a nice bit of syntactic sugar.
 
@marcio why not both?
 
user895378
9:40 PM
And it doesn't even mess with Iterator compatibility because Iterator::send() isn't a thing ...
 
make -j32
 
@Danack he seems genuinely well intentioned, I don't think so
 
@ircmaxell On php-src?
 
ya
 
@marcio He also doesn't seem to ever accept a negative answer.
 
9:52 PM
make test barely hits 50% on a single CPU
 
--disable-nearly-all compile? … well, takes about 1 min on my laptop. Which has 4(+4) cores with hyperthreading.
 
is that really an option?
 
@FlorianMargaine no… Means --disable-all with a few custom switches.
 
thanks... was worried by the approximation there
 
@bwoebi no, that's a default --debug build with everything enabled
real	0m10.986s
user	0m53.831s
sys	0m18.163s
^^ that's for --disable-all
 
10:04 PM
@ircmaxell wait. I see only 20 seconds effective compiling in your image?
Or is that real?
 
yes
 
Oh, okay
 
so it's effectively 11 seconds to compile a --disable-all --enable-debug build
 
And the other time is spent with what?
 
the user is 53 seconds, because that's the effective time the CPU spent doing it (so a roughly 50% efficiency over 12 cores
at least that's how I think it's interpreted
 
10:07 PM
And sys is kernel waiting for disk reads etc.?
 
I think so
> These statistics consist of (i) the elapsed real time between invocation and termination, (ii) the user CPU time (the sum of the tms_utime and tms_cutime values in a struct tms as returned by times(2)), and (iii) the system CPU time (the sum of the tms_stime and tms_cstime values in a struct tms as returned by times(2)).
780
A: What do 'real', 'user' and 'sys' mean in the output of time(1)?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWellsReal, User and Sys process time statistics One of these things is not like the other. Real refers to actual elapsed time; User and Sys refer to CPU time used only by the process. Real is wall clock time - time from start to finish of the call. This is all elapsed time including time slices u...

 
make -j8 101.93s user 15.76s system 175% cpu 1:06.88 total - mint VM (with 2 VCPU + 4GB RAM)
 
@ircmaxell Hey, you mentioned that Drupal 8 devs discovered that namespace issue you've highlighted on ML ... would you happen to know the specific ticket?
 
Clean --enable-debug --disable-all build on my box
real 0m6.744s
user 0m55.631s
sys 0m12.072s

6.5 seconds is a LONG time, bro
 
not sure
 
10:19 PM
I should try on my FIO card
 
$ time make -j16

Build complete.
Don't forget to run 'make test'.


real	0m0.026s
user	0m0.014s
sys	0m0.013s
 
Totes cheating :p
 
haha
 
@Sara at least I admitted it was cheating by showing the entire output :-P
 
@ircmaxell much obliged :D
 
10:20 PM
:D
 
I think the FS is my limiting factor
 
huh, no difference building on my FIO card
Kinda surprising, actually
That linking step is brutal
A full second just to link together sapi/cli/php
 
actually, let me try it on the native FS rather than the network mounted one
 
This is where Sara goes and runs it on the hhvm build cluster or something just to really show off
 
Not on any cluster, just my lone beefy devserver
With it's arduously slow build time of 6.5 seconds
 
10:24 PM
Oh, I thought you had something beefier at work
 
There's the deploy tier, but I have no need to use that
And honestly, I doubt it'd help much for PHP
You'd spend more time on distcc overhead than you'd save
 
Well, you know what this proves... there's an awful lot of shit in that php-cli binary
(I believe there's files in zend/ that depend on ext/datetime - I don't know how to do a sadder face than :'( )
 
/me makes a ramdisk to test this out
 
@ircmaxell My flash device didn't show any appreciable difference, so I'm actually inclined to doubt ram will be noticeable either.
Best I can push it...
real 0m6.370s
user 0m56.206s
sys 0m12.396s
 
for mine it should
I'm on an iscsi device
so fs is reasonably expensive
 
10:30 PM
@ircmaxell That might make more diff, yeah
I am curious where you're extra 4 seconds come from
Since we both have 32 cores
 
I only have 24
 
Oh, there you go then
 
sorry, 12 cores (6 logical 6 virtual)
 
I thought I saw 32 somewhere in your pastes
 
10:31 PM
you did, I was testing higher parallelism
since with -j16 I was getting only about 80% CPU usage
 
I tried a few different levels, -j33 was my happy plac
 
Where's Levi with his supercomputer when you need him
 
wow, ramdisk slowed it down
 
$ nproc
4
._.
 
real	0m11.753s
user	0m52.027s
sys	0m17.239s
 
10:32 PM
I'll bet if I could get gcc to output to /dev/null it'd shave a bit off
$ nproc
32
 
so yeah, ramdisks aren't efficient
 
Or at least I/O isn't the bottleneck
 
perhaps...
tho make test is slow as hell
 
Our make test is single-threaded
 
yeah, but even for that it's slow
my VM at home is faster than this desktop
real	3m10.909s
user	1m4.588s
sys	0m46.605s
why the heck are there tests in Zend that depend on mbstring
 
10:42 PM
 
@ircmaxell it's interesting that only a few days ago I answered this question, which is the same kind of namespace issue, even though this issue has been around for a while.
 
@ircmaxell maybe CPU frequency is higher at home?
When only one core is used…
 
OKay, just to make sure I'm not missing something, there's no sane way to reorder the keys in an assoc array outside of either using a sort on the array or rewriting the array, right?
 
uksort()? yeah… That's your best bet.
 
But but but it only works in the uk :(
lol! It got edited
> [Editor's note: the following comment may be factually incorrect]
 
10:58 PM
Meh, I just need to switch two array keys and the most common case is a 1-2 element array; I'll just rewrite it
Was trying to use key position in the array as a natural sort order, but it's becoming a pain.
 
@PeeHaa I wonder who added that editor's note... *whistle*
 
@salathe :)
I love the may be factual incorrect thing
 
Hah, I just "found out" about strripos() =/
 
@Ja͢ck I wonder what Yasou's new name for that function might be...
 
11:06 PM
hehe
 
str_r_i_pos of course.
 
@Ja͢ck i_str_pos_r, surely
sorry, I thought we were just being ridiculous, and I couldn't help myself...
 
string_position_searching_from_end_case_insensitively(), right?
 
Sorted by length; str_pos_ir()
 
@Ja͢ck pos_str_ir() unstably sorted by length :P
 
11:11 PM
but only search upto a certain length... we need to get an n in there
 
We need to make a stable alias then.
I thought that objective c would have a huge function name for it .. but it's relatively succinct.
 
Night all. See you all when we all celebrate rebecca day
 
[str rangeOfString:@"something" options:NSCaseInsensitiveSearch|NSBackwardsSearch] ... see, such clean.
 
hey, quick poll, do you think that turning func_get_args and analogous into a language construct would be a good idea? (this could go to my list of PHP 7.1 rfcs, as I think it's a nice idea).
 
Sweet dreams, @PeeHee
 
11:14 PM
o/
 
@Ja͢ck Objective-PHP, next years hot lang...
 
@marcio what advantage is there?
 
@NikiC why is there no zend_hash_rekey(HashTable *ht, zend_ulong old_h, zend_string *old_key, zend_ulong new_h, zend_string *new_key); ?
 
@FlorianMargaine func_get_args is a weird function, it only works in certain scopes and emits warnings if you use outside function bodies etc..
 
@Leigh That, or SwiftPHP .. but somebody already wrote a Swift thing for PHP :)
 
11:16 PM
@marcio what would be the advantage of making it a language construct?
 
Phwift sounds awesome. Go on, say it out loud
 
I can't
 
could be potentially more efficient than deleting and reinserting @NikiC
 
Blasphemy, how dare you propose deleting NickiC
as for reinserting him, that's just rude
 
@bwoebi Do we already have zend_hash_move(), no?
 
11:17 PM
@FlorianMargaine it's already a lang construct disguised as a function: 3v4l.org/aTlUO
 
@Ja͢ck That's iterating API…
 
Hmm, no .. move is the wrong word too
 
@rdlowrey for master you only have to add NEWS entries for stuff which was only introduced in master but not in any lower branch
 
user895378
@Tyrael okay, thanks. I realized that was likely the case after I'd already pushed a couple of things there that didn't belong. I'll remove anything I put there that doesn't fit the criteria.
 
k, sometimes people also forget and just merge up NEWS and I remember somebody poking me about dmitry pushing in some NEWS entries with conflict markers in them
will look into them tomorrow if nobody beats me to it
 
11:23 PM
Was also rdlowrey :P
 
hey all
 
@Tyrael do you still play Diablo?
 
@FlorianMargaine I can't think of any blatantly advantage other than make it consistent and facilitate compile checks (aka wiki.php.net/rfc/strict_argcount)... it's not set in stone I'll do the RFC, just a pre discussion to see if anybody is against it for some good reason.
 
@marcio well adding any language construct has to be argued for, not the opposite...
 
yeah
 
11:26 PM
:)
 
> Hardware eventually fails. Software eventually works.
2
heh
 
Then fails. Then the guy that wrote it leaves the company.
 
"try to do not use more then one namespace in one file" - wise words, my friend (rolls eyes)
 
@FlorianMargaine ok, I'll try to build upon this premise and see if there are other factors, beyond consistency, that could make it legit.
 
11:46 PM
Oh dear, could this be happening .. I'm a few votes away from 100k
 
user895378
@Ja͢ck now you're two votes closer :)
 
user895378
congratulations in advance
 
:D
 
user895378
100k is pretty exciting
 
not sure whether congratulations or something of a more negative connotation lol
but yeah, it's a big number nonetheless
 
11:52 PM
@Ja͢ck Are you worried it might soon be your time for Carrousel?
 
@Danack Their office is in the same building as mine lol
 
mgm? Or the sandmen?
 
sandmen?
wait what?
Sorry, I thought you meant Carousell haha
According to that, I should be long dead already :)
 
user895378
Okay folks. @Ja͢ck needs 11 rep.
 

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