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6:00 PM
Bananas
 
Does anyone of you prefer Windows 8 over Windows 7? Just a general question
 
@Sara why did I read that in Gwen Stefani's voice
 
I am going to keep my Windows 7 for as long as I can. I don't think that I can possibly get as happy with Windows 8 or 10 as I am with Windows after reading plus.google.com/+KristianK%C3%B6hntopp/posts/VJvQ2o1UjDL (German, sorry)
 
@YourFriend I do
 
@Sara Somehow that made me think of Hans'gar and Franzok
 
6:05 PM
@SebastianBergmann hmmm I am also Windows 7 fan btw. Windows 8 kindda sucks at some places
 
@ircmaxell Because this shit is bananas. B.A.N.A.N.A.S.
 
@Dracony alright
 
I love the idea of pressing 'windows' button and typing the name of the app i want to run
 
:-D
 
@SebastianBergmann 2nd favorite encounter of that raid
 
6:05 PM
instead of walking around the menus
 
@Dracony same thing can be done in Windows 7 too
 
also
 
The train yard is fun as beans though
 
when you press windows+x you get a quick menu where you can access control panel, disk partiton er and stuff
 
Blast Furnace, on the other hand... That shit IS Bananas
 
6:06 PM
@Sara Yup
 
very useful
 
@Dracony one thing more
 
I really like that yu can do so much with the keyboard
 
@Sara It's encounters like Blast Furnace that make me hate LFR
 
@Dracony you can write any document and watch movie on the same time
 
6:06 PM
apart from that they are not that much different
 
@SebastianBergmann 4 Stacks when I went in there last night... #smh
 
I think you can do that with any windows)
 
@Dracony sure they can be some work around to do that. BUt they are ugly and messy
 
@Sara hehe. Only went LFR because I missed my raid last week. Because I was in the hospital (and otherwise I would have missed it as well because I would have been at ConFoo)
@Sara What are you playing these days?
 
@YourFriend huh? You just open 2 windows and thats it
 
6:09 PM
@Dracony I use 8.1 at home. It became tolerable after installing ClassicShell. I just couldn't come to like the start screen. Having client Hyper-V installed by default (in Pro) is also really handy.
 
@SebastianBergmann Mostly the Mage, but when our tank is out I get to run my healer (another healer goes tank)
((Healer being Priest))
 
@Dracony actually there is a proper function know as something half screen display
you can watch movie on half screen and do work on the other half. (Windows 8 built in feature)
 
Wanna get my DK back out there, but she's fallen so far behind :(
 
@Sara I'm actively raiding with my Priest (Disc/Holy) and my Warlock. Mage and Monk are 100, too, but haven't really raided yet.
 
Well you don't need to use the "full screen" apps if you dont ant to
 
6:10 PM
I'm at 4x 100s (Mage, Priest, DK, and Hunter). The 90s are all sitting in garrisons on massive piles of resources
 
you can start most apps in a "standard" mode
 
My 91s are also sitting on a lot of resources ...
Anyways, time for food. bbl.
 
@Dracony btw I am sticking with Windows 7
 
I got win 8.1 with my laptop
if I got win 7 I wouldnt care
 
hmmm I got Windows 7 Home Basic with mine xD
 
6:12 PM
@Dracony Ubuntu?
 
I have fedora and gentoo on my other laptops
ubuntu is the shittiest debian ripoff ever
 
@Sara @SebastianBergmann my brother plays LOL and I really hate him doing that lol xD
 
Cool...
 
I might drop fedora too
because of systemd
which is the worst idea the linux community ever came up with
it's pretty much becoming the monolitic kernel we had in XP
 
Would be fun for room 11 to play some kind of game together (would obviously have to be teams vs. each other)
 
6:14 PM
Yay, join the anti-systemd hypetrain.
systemd is so un-Linux. Each package should do one thing and do it well = core Linux philosophy.
systemd ain't got time for that.
 
@Leigh it will get too messy if it happens :)
 
Production calls for production API, development for development API, but development API server isn't up always, how to handle that nicely in code (like fake positive responses, and yes, it's SOAP), makes any sense?
 
@MattPrelude - Thanks a lot! That seems great, it's already showing what I was looking for, here epochconverter.com
 
You need to generate a UNIX timestamp
Look at strtotime function (docs), @VincentVerheyen
 
...and then shoot the person who decided to store a datetime as an int rather than a datetime =P
 
6:18 PM
@AllenJB I sometimes prefer to store timestamps, INT comparisons are fast.
Plus PHP can't work natively with DATETIME so you're losing cycles in conversion there too.
On the other hand, no easy DATE lookup can suck.
Time for the gym. Bye all.
 
bye
make some packs xD
 
@ircmaxell that's a scary thought. I may have to start removing tests now so there's fewer to fix if the RFC passes.
 
I wonder if there is a good offline SQL database browser. I now have the app called "MySQL workbench", but I can't figure out how to cleanly sort by rows etc ... Like in PHPMyadmin
 
@Vincent phpmyadmin also comes with WAMP. You can use it
 
6:28 PM
What is actually the most used date format globally? Is it day/month/year or is it month/day/year?
 
year-month-day
 
@Vincent we use the first format here. Don't know about the global scenario
 
I think it makes sense to go from small to large or from large to small, thus not m/d/y
 
@VincentVerheyen Just click on the row name in results, it'll sort it for you.
 
@Vincent yeah it just creates conflicts and misunderstadnding using that format
 
6:30 PM
@VincentVerheyen SQLYog is very good
 
Thanks, it was just a question on the side.
@YourFriend - Do you mean this here: ampps.com/download ?
 
@VincentVerheyen HeidiSQL is not as good but free
 
@VincentVerheyen There's some ISO that tells you that year-month-date is the One True Date Format
 
/me just notices this (wiki.php.net/rfc/date.timezone_warning_removal) - I'll just revert that when it's being pushed. Stupid idea.
 
@Dracony - Thanks, I like "not as good but free" more than "not as free but good"
 
6:32 PM
Here it is wampserver.com/en
If you are Windows user then it is WAMP or if you are linux user then you can use LAMP
 
@NikiC - Thanks; I think it depends on what the context is though. If it's mainly a blog, then everybody knows what year one is in, and it might be better to do d/m/y on the blog's feed, right?
 
Here is what it stands for W(Windows) A(Apache) M(Mysql) P(Phpmyadmin)
 
close...
 
@Derick I don't really get the motivation behind the RFC, but I don't get the motivation behind the message either ...
 
That acronym is like "Peace and Love" or "Sex, Drugs and Rock&Roll" for developers right, a lot of important sounding names in there! Thanks for the clarification.
 
6:34 PM
Hehe it is kind of an Allrounder just like in Cricket
 
@Derick You can revert it after your RFC passes I guess.
 
@JoeWatkins There was a time when extension authors had some say in things.
I might just take the extension to PECL.
 
@YourFriend - I will need to look for an alternative (alternativeto.net/software/wamp/?platform=mac), I'm on mac.
 
you really don't need to tell me about loosing control of your own project :D
 
@JoeWatkins, I know...
Big reason why Xdebug is not going to get anywhere near core. Ever.
 
6:37 PM
@Vincent if you are on MAC, then you can use the link you provided my previously
something like ammps
 
@NikiC worth updating this line: The patch attached to the RFC currently (as of 2014-09-30) removes 75 E_ERRORs, 13 E_RECOVERABLE_ERRORs and the one E_PARSE error. ?
 
@Derick we live we learn, I'll not be donating anything else to the madness, ever ...
I think ext's are better off in pecl anyway, untied from the release cycle of php
 
user895378
morning
 
@JoeWatkins sad state really...
 
@rdlowrey morning :)
 
6:38 PM
@rdlowrey moin pretty
@Derick agree
 
user895378
super lazy unproductive weekend officially over.
 
@JoeWatkins until they get really mature at least
 
super lazy unproductive week begins! :)
 
user895378
\o/
 
ex: conceptually, integrating Optimizer was a great idea. Except that now it's practically unmaintained. If it wasn't for that...
 
6:40 PM
@rdlowrey so what you plan to do now?
 
well if something has got the point where you can call it really mature, then what is there to gain from bundling with PHP ?
 
user895378
People who don't know how to pecl can use it?
 
we were outright lied to with optimizer, integration has never happened and isn't likely too
but just in general if you have something with a big user base, that's stable, then what's the point of just dumping in /ext
@rdlowrey those people also don't know how to install php, and they have sysadmins ...
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins good point.
 
or MAMP...
 
6:46 PM
Or repo maintainers that build the world for you.
 
Anyway, back to fixing Xdebug a little more.
 
@Derick please, don't do that. Or I will tell Ferenc to tell you to end the revert battle.
 
@bwoebi I don't understand your motivation. I see it as another "let's annoy Derick" thing. I will however, revert it.
 
user895378
lol
 
@Derick It's not about you.
 
6:50 PM
So childish
 
@Derick it's not a "let's annoy Derick". It's a "do many people disagree with this error? If so, let's remove it"
 
@bwoebi you didn't even bother to reply to my mail on the discussion.
 
@bwoebi that's really rude
 
@Derick I mentioned in the discussion part of the RFC.
 
@ircmaxell Hm maybe. Should be about the same tho
 
6:54 PM
I wish people would thing about consensus first, instead of this ridiculous voting system. It should be done in a last resort, if consensus can not be reached. Certainly not for something as trivial as this, where you know the original author heavily objects to it.
 
@NikiC fair, wasn't sure if you've updated much since then...
 
@NikiC Did you continue on yield *?
 
@ircmaxell I think it's primary goal of being updated as PHP changes has been achieved
 
But no, let's just vote without discussing the issue on internals first. That's so much better.
 
@NikiC yes, however it hasn't been integrated into Zend (we have 2 string interning implementations we ship with for example)
 
6:55 PM
@ircmaxell nope, I didn't do anything since then. And afaic dmitry's adjustments didn't change the set of things that were converted
 
@Derick I know that you disagree. And I got the feeling you never will agree. See your first mail in the thread: "Absolutely not." That wasn't an invitation to discuss. So, I did the only thing I could do… go to vote.
You didn't really leave room for discussion. Okay. But then don't complain we didn't discuss.
 
@Derick This seems like exactly the thing we should be voting on. The original author objects to it, but a large supermajority disagrees with you.
You may want to consider the possibility that you are overly attached to this because you are the ext/date maintainer. Datetime handling is very important to you, while for us normal folk it's just a small part of a large system and we consider it annoying that this part is so "vocal" ;)
 
A large "supermajority", being 10 people on a voting roll. Come on, that's bullshit. I am attached to it because I have seen the bullshit that happens when you default to something. Especially in areas that use UTC/GMT half of the year. Do you really think I added it for the fun of it?
 
but then a default of utc is used anyway ?
 
is error_reporting(0) enough to disable E_RECOVERABLE_ERROR no or?
 
7:04 PM
that's reasonable justification for showing an error message, of the kind that halts the execution, you are missing configuration, like you are when you get undefined function from calling a function in an extension that is not loaded by configuration ...
 
@Derick By large supermajority I mean that the RFC currently has 3/4 in favor of removing the warning ;)
 
but it uses a default and allows continuing anyway ...
 
@Derick well, nearly 40 people voted on it and only 1/4 disagreed. It's a lot of voters for the average php vote.
 
@beberlei It will prevent the display, but it's still gonna be fatal
 
@beberlei "disable"
 
7:07 PM
@JoeWatkins You need to default to something. But doing it silently makes people think that their timezone is set right - for half of the year. And then it goes wrong when BST comes along. I find that violating the principle of least surprise. An active choice needs to be made.
@bwoebi I bet 50% of them don't even know the difference between UTC and GMT.
@beberlei Of course - it disables all errors.
 
@Derick ummm... Not in this context
 
disables the reporting of ...
 
^^ precisely
 
@JoeWatkins Right, it disables the reporting
 
@Derick well, yeah, up to ±0.9 seconds difference.
 
7:11 PM
@bwoebi That's only one interpretation. Read this again: derickrethans.nl/leap-seconds-and-what-to-do-with-them.html
 
@Derick I don't see two interpretations in that article?
 
/me memorizes this text for the next time a kid asks me "what is a second?"
> the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom
 
@JoeWatkins In which case, of course, you must also be able to answer what a hyperfine level is ;)
 
agh =]
 
7:22 PM
which java do you use on headless linux? Is openjdk-7-jre-headless fine?
I'll use it for jenkins and supposedly ant
 
dude, don't mention java, it's totally not cool ...
 
Still need it for jenkins ^^
<- OCPJP 6
 
I often use php just for quick and dirty scripting testing on my homebox... for example atm I got php7 running, but I didnt set up the .ini because I mainly just use it for cli... A reason I am looking forward to seeing the Warning be gone is so I can just make a datetime object with specific dates without being troubled ... atm I just get ..
php > $x = new DateTime('2014-01-01 10:00:00');
Warning: Uncaught exception 'Exception' with message 'DateTime::__construct(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required*
 
huh… a warning for an exception?
 
7:34 PM
that makes no sense
 
It been quite a while since I build it , dunno if it is still like that..
PHP 7.0.0-dev (cli) (built: Jan 14 2015 15:56:12)
 
ZEND_CTOR_MAKE_NULL … that macro … :-(
 
@bwoebi sigh
 
user895378
@bwoebi /me shakes tiny fist
 
user895378
Is "proto" an acceptable abbreviation of "protocol"? Nevermind. Abbreviations are bad.
 
user895378
7:39 PM
Context: stream context option name "alpn_protocols" or "alpn_protos" ?
 
really that hard to type 3 chars?
 
@rdlowrey alpn_protocols … in case we have no other context option which is already named "proto"
 
I personally wouldn't get "protos"
except now I already know
 
@rdlowrey it's also called "protocol_version" (for http) and not "proto_version" or similar
 
@Derick the warning is really annoying and given its "unimportance" compared to others it seems weird. Just my users perspective
 
7:44 PM
@rdlowrey proto is short for prototype not protocol :)
 
@NikiC or protobuffers
 
user895378
Yeah I realized after asking that "proto" is pretty ambiguous.
 
well I have no idea what that is ^^
 
user895378
I think of "prototype"
 
7:45 PM
@NikiC google's data exchange format
 
k
 
Google's ASN.1, if you prefer
 
@FlorianMargaine That depends on whether you hate Go or not
 
It's not related to go
 
7:47 PM
it's actually fully cross-language
 
Neither protobuffer nor ASN.1
 
@FlorianMargaine Well, I at least would consider "it's like ASN.1" to be an insult
 
protobuf is what inspired facebooks thrift
 
@NikiC why?
 
binary json of sorts :P
 
7:48 PM
@FlorianMargaine Because ASN.1 is horrible. The only reason to use ASN.1 is because some standard requires you to.
 
(very widely spoken, diferent datatypes and such)
 
yay installed jenkins 5 minutes ago
jenkins now dead
 
@NikiC did you ever use it?
 
Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException
 
@FlorianMargaine yes
 
7:49 PM
k
fair enough then
 
What's that weird EH_THROW thing?
Why can't we just throw normal exceptions… but have EH_THROW???
 
@bwoebi for handling zpp in ctors mostly
 
why can't we just call zend_throw_error_exception directly there?
@NikiC not sure how this is related to zpp.
 
@bwoebi because zpp throws a warning and we must convert it into an exception
 
@NikiC and we can't check in zpp if current method name matches __construct?
 

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