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1:00 PM
Ok, that's more than my 70lines, but I'll give it a try, I wanted to keep it As Simple As Possoble
 
@Ekin how many uses of eval() in that 17gb
 
@DaveRandom THX
 
Head of cloud lol
 
@brzuchal In terms of using it, that's pretty simple. It's possible to do some super complex things with it (e.g. Jeeves has an aerys server embedded in the same main process). But at the end of the day, HTTP servers are not simple things... if you want to be able to handle any kind of concurrency, you need a lot of logic
 
Sounds like monkey magic
 
1:02 PM
and if you don't want to handle any kind of concurrency, php -S address:port
 
Read the "getting started" article first @brzuchal
 
Ok, I'll try both. Thx
 
@PaulCrovella right, also this
 
@KuKeC and @DaveRandom. Just resolved the issue by placing the /rootfoldername/ before the paths to css/js/images links. I am sure there must be a smarter way than this. Would be glad to know.
 
holy shit @ Head of Cloud
sure thing buddy
 
1:06 PM
hell they're all good. DDG for "head of cloud" and hit images tab
It's like a bad analogy goldmine
 
Hold on, sysadmins should just switch their job titles to "Cloud Creator"
"The WAN revolution is happening!" yeah, we call it "The Internet™"
 
@Trucy I'm changing mine to "weatherlord"
 
Cloud wrangler
 
@Trucy Cloud Seeders
 
That's only for porn site ops
 
1:13 PM
I should put a picture of Storm on my résumé
 
@Trucy you mean GAN? Global Area Network?
 
I'm not 100% clear on what they would be trying to sell me but we already have an MPLS solution between our leased line and our remote servers so whatever it is we don't need it
 
With the title "Ruler of the Clouds"
 
@DaveRandom you don't want to increase your costs Exponential-e?
 
lol :-P
 
1:15 PM
@Prad
 
tab, not enter
 
space :S
 
As on IRC
Y'all know what IRC is, right?
 
room topic changed to PHP: Support group for those afflicted with PHP. Don't ask to ask, just ask. Username auto complete is *tab, not enter. Chat Guidelines : guide.room11.org [php]*
 
international relay center
 
1:17 PM
I recall correctly what IRC is.
 
> Gary, from Wilmslow, Cheshire, in the UK, has a BA (Hons) in Classics and Ancient History and a Master's Degree (MA) in Ancient World Studies
 
room topic changed to PHP: Support group for those afflicted with PHP. Don't ask to ask, just ask. Username auto complete is tab, not enter. Chat Guidelines : guide.room11.org [php]
 
hm.
 
so my mistake started discussion :D good for me
 
fu markdown
 
1:17 PM
uniquely qualified to talk about the cloud wanifying services, which as we all know, were invented in Egypt 3000bc~
 
Damnit I need to work on my irc server now :(
 
@PeeHaa as in CODING one or ADMINISTRATING one?
 
@Trucy codding
 
room topic changed to PHP't ask to ask, just ask. Username auto complete is tab, not enter. Chat Guidelines : guide.room11.org: Support group for those afflicted with PHP. Don't ask to ask, just ask. Username auto complete is *tab, not enter. Chat Guidelines : guide.room11.org [php]*
 
/topic Chris is fired from setting room topics.
 
1:18 PM
(caps because it's important)
 
wut
 
lolwat
 
room topic changed to PHP: Support group for those afflicted with PHP. Don't ask to ask, just ask. Username auto complete is *tab, not enter. Chat Guidelines : guide.room11.org [php]*
 
better
 
PHP't sounds northern
but what does it mean ?
 
1:19 PM
Right I clearly shouldn't be in charge of an internet connection today
 
or a keyboard
 
clearly
 
@DaveRandom apply at BT
 
@Pramod and what's wrong with this solution?
 
at BT, you'd be running the place in no time
practice "you need a special router for that", and "but sir, you already have a insert thing here"
 
1:21 PM
Why the fuck does this file exist?
 
giggity
 
lol
I know what that is, it's left over from generating the extension with ext_skel script
it's literally some junk
 
May I burn it?
From master at least
 
I think so, yes
 
I'm always fearful of doing stuff like that, I might mail internals and see if anyone complains
I'm sure someone will
 
1:25 PM
if someone's mad they can revert it
 
imo it doesn't really need a discussion, it should never have been committed ...
 
I'd argue the same about most of these results
!!docs dl
 
some of them at "cli interfaces"
 
[ dl() ] Loads a PHP extension at runtime
 
yep, gone, I thought so
@JoeWatkins yeh the phar stuff is legit and obviously run-tests etc
 
1:27 PM
nearly all of them are legit
in fact, the fileinfo one seems to have the same kind of purpose
 
wait, the dl page still lists PHP 7.. are there any sapis it still exists in?
 
CLI
 
of course
 
The win32std one points to an unmaintained pecl extension
ext/zip/examples should be in the docs only probably
 
you mean registersyslog.php
 
1:29 PM
yes
mkdist I guess is used
 
yeah, I'd say mail internals with your intention to cleanup some of those ... examples don't belong in source tree, nor do cli interfaces really ...
 
OK I will compile a list of things that don't look useful and the reasons they don't look useful
 
@DaveRandom maybe, cc Stephen.Zarkos@microsoft.com about that one specifically, he will tell you if it's used
 
run the list by me and I'll double check before you send ...
 
1:32 PM
no worries, will do it at lunch
 
you may want to bring up removal of server-tests.php, as far as we can work out (myself, nikita, kalle) it's not used anymore either
@DaveRandom cool
 
@JoeWatkins Do you have a link to a previous discussion re. this that I could include?
 
urm, search on github issues, it may be scattered among them (even seemingly unrelated ones)
pull-requests rather
 
OK, no worries
 
1:48 PM
@AdilIlhan hellou
 
Hi there
 
Anonymous
!!wotd
 
statecraft: the art of government and diplomacy.
 
Anonymous
!!cancer
 
> ♋ Cancer | June 21 to July 22
So ashamed will you be about falling down the stairs that you’ll lie to friends and family, telling them your husband beat you instead.
http://www.theonion.com/features/horoscope
 
Anonymous
1:57 PM
that should probably return a picture of trump
 
starcraft: the art of managing resources and 6-pooling
!!pisces
!!pisces
eh
 
!!alias pisces horoscope pisces
 
Command '!!pisces' aliased to '!!horoscope pisces'
 
oh, tnx
!!pisces
 
> ♓ Pisces | Feb. 19 to March 20
When times are tough and the world around you seems grim, don’t be afraid to turn to religion for a good, hearty laugh.
http://www.theonion.com/features/horoscope
 
Anonymous
1:59 PM
yes, because that's all religion is good for. Laughing at it.
 
Any people here hosting PHP sites/apps beside the "oldschool way" with apache/mysql server? (e.g. dokku/heroku)
I need some opinions on this
 
So, you mean anyone using php-fpm ?
 
do not ask to ask, just ask
 
Yeah for example
 
omg you guys, I'm going to apply to another job...
 
2:02 PM
fpm is the magic sauce in modern PHP, with it, you go fast, without it, you don't ...
 
I usually deploy client projects as haproxy/varnish/apache/php-fpm with some mix of Percona cluster, openldap or occasionally mongo if they insist and pay enough
 
Jan 23 '16 at 6:54, by Paul Crovella
well, 502 Bad Gateway errors are usually pretty quick
 
@Tiffany welcome to the "my job sucks, I'm gonna change" club :D
(why do you want to btw?)
 
@Trucy I juggle three projects that each require basically 100% attention
 
You don't need a new job
You need 2
 
2:04 PM
and I don't do them effectively
 
clones/slaves
 
@Tiffany sounds familiar
 
effective programming is over-rated ...
 
talk with your manager?
 
@Stephen holy moly this sounds strong.
 
2:04 PM
Damn soft keyboard return key
 
new job is better pay, and closer to where my boyfriend lives
 
that's hard to beat
my dream job would be a fully remote job
 
@CodeBrauer what does?
 
closest to my girlfriend!
 
@Stephen I never heard of haproxy and Percona
 
2:05 PM
plus it's mainly front-end dev, which I'd rather have. they want expert knowledge in HTML/CSS, proficiency in JS, PHP and Git, and want experience in Drupal/Wordpress
 
@Trucy once you go remote you'll never wear pants again... Or.. Something
 
all of my best work is done while wearing underwear ...
 
THEY HAVE OFFICE CATS
THAT'S THE BEST PART
 
@Tiffany WANT
 
Anonymous
nah, that just means they're weird
 
2:06 PM
@Tiffany sound great - if you like cats :D
 
I love cats :D
 
@CodeBrauer tls terminator+load balancer, and MySQL fork with enterprise features
 
@Stephen nah, I'm too self-disciplined about this
 
Anonymous
weirdo.
 
everybody likes cats ... except people who are dead inside ...
or 12 @Jay
 
2:07 PM
@Tiffany I have an office cat too
@JoeWatkins or people allergic
 
Anonymous
cats are the devil in cat form.
 
I prefer office dogs, they don't step on the keyboard as much
 
@FlorianMargaine jealous
 
Anonymous
DOGS on the other hand.. spot on.
 
You train them to sit on your lap
 
2:07 PM
My company has an office baby
 
@Tiffany tbf, I'm working from home, so it's just my cat...
 
Anonymous
@Stephen resign.
 
my boyfriend said the building the job is at, there's a chocolate place in the basement
 
I should clarify
 
@Stephen sorry to hear that
 
2:08 PM
The baby is my son
And the office is downstairs in my house
 
Anonymous
oh, i thought you were referring to a Ruby developer
 
@Stephen Sounds really great - do you have some docs where I can learn more about this
 
babies are disgusting
 
@Stephen hehe, same :)
 
@FlorianMargaine so kitty who's wondering why you're not giving he/she attention. My cats are kind of pests in that regard.
 
2:09 PM
@Tiffany mine doesn't care, no, he just comes 10 mins a day
usually at scrum time
 
but chocolate, office cats, closer to boyfriend, and twice what I make at the bare minimum pay...
 
@CodeBrauer haproxy.org and percona.com
Do you have a specific actual question or just generally curios @CodeBrauer
 
@Stephen ok, thanks, will read it asap.
@Stephen just curios!
 
@JoeWatkins babies are like legacy code
 
fuck zend framework
 
2:11 PM
lol
 
"An error occurred Application error"
Well thanks I guess
 
You can't just throw them out, no matter how poopy they get, and you will get frustrated and swear sometimes
 
I need to spruce up my resume. Fuck.
 
@Stephen I'm currently hosting all smaller things on apache2.4 with php7.0 as module with mysql-server5.7 - nothing more for caching/load balancing - wanted to know some other approches
 
@Tiffany try paprika and garlic
 
2:12 PM
get a sysadmin
 
how do I digitize spices?
 
@code
 
sorry, I'm being silly right now, I'm excited that the position's still open
 
@CodeBrauer for work, fun or oss project?
 
load balancing should be done by hardware, well away from programmers ... and haproxy ... just ... just ... tiring shit ... get a sysadmin, they enjoy that stuff ...
 
2:14 PM
you can use nginx as reverse proxy though
 
"Hardware".. Like an appliance that costs $20k and runs... Haproxy? Lol
 
urm ... no
 
@Stephen you might be able to throw them out, depending on your local safe-haven laws
 
@DaveRandom Must.. resist.. chrome plugin being cross-platform with brain...
 
@Stephen Some really small clients and OSS/fun stuff
 
2:21 PM
@JoeWatkins With as much emphasis on "Magic" as possible
 
@Jimbo ?
 
!!jimbo
 
love it when small updates break production. :(
 
@Jimbo should suck it.
 
phpredis broke BC from 3.1.0 to 3.1.1
 
@FlorianMargaine session something something ?
 
I thought that only js developers were dumb enough to break semver
 
@JoeWatkins no, it suddenly hard breaks if you don't have the igbinary extension if support is compiled in, even if you don't need it
 
smooth
 
alright fuck ZF1. I'm sick of debugging it when it doesn't give any useful error messages
I'm wasting time here
 
2:31 PM
ZF1 is smooth
 
points loaded shotgun to Dejan say again?
 
@FlorianMargaine @DaveRandom had a cloud-to-butt plugin
So he should go and ask the speaker if his job title is actually "Head of Butt"
 
@Trucy well back in 2013 when I last worked with it :-P
 
2:40 PM
Does he work with PRs?
 
Components we're not bad compared to other shit.
frontController stuff is horid
 
@DejanMarjanovic yeah, maybe in 2013. But it's impossible to work with it in 2017
 
@Sean yes
 
@Trucy Still would take that any day over random legacy shit.
 
@PaulCrovella Sweet.
 
2:46 PM
btw anyone who is in California might want to keep an eye on the weather: tinyletter.com/sciencebyericholthaus/letters/…
 
@Danack yeah, just had a few people die in floods the other day
 
Honestly this npm stuff, what an anus hole of a tech stack
 
@PeeHaa @DaveRandom What do I have to explain and in how much detail? async.kelunik.com/guide/event-loop.html
@bwoebi @Trowski Interesting questions: gist.github.com/assertchris/0c73b1b8c824934a82203ff895f3d7f1
 
profiling memory usage is already rather craptastic with php in general
 
@PaulCrovella ^ this.
@kelunik truly async … well… if you put full load on it, CPU usage should be 100%.
@kelunik returning a coroutine … yeah, we need more examples in docs…
profiling async code can only really be done when stripping all the other code out, or mocking it.
Aerys supports SSL… Didn't you have a github repo for letsencrypt @kelunik ?
 
2:57 PM
@bwoebi That client is pretty crappy :D
(the integrated one, no the actual one)
 
async apps/libs … best solutions is searching for dependents of amp?
@kelunik you may want making it less crappy? ;-)
 
@bwoebi Not worth the effort. People should just use a client of their choice and do a rolling restart in case of a new cert.
 
@kelunik mhm fine
No idea about profiling tooling
 
Because in fact, one certificate per hostname is enough, you don't need one for every service.
 
And debuggers should work fine with Aerys.
 
3:03 PM
@kelunik E_VAGUE :-P
You mean how should you expand on that page, or what should you cover in the sub-topics?
 
evenin all
 
@CodeBrauer in some ways, i agree with what @JoeWatkins said: you probably need someone who's experienced in the field to actually solve some of this stuff for you, if its for paying clients
I find it ironic that he suggests getting a sysadmin, and then says it has to be "hardware" (aka an appliance) - surely picking the solution is why you want the sysadmin in the first place
 
btw I'm starting to winder if it might make sense to "prime" the DNS resolver @kelunik @bwoebi... in particular there's a potential performance hit to checking whether the system config/hosts file is loaded for each lookup. Not a huge one but it mounts up, and having a Resolver#load(array $overrideConfig = []): Promise or something would potentially simplify the code and maybe allow for simpler consumer code if you want to use custom config (set once instead of per-request).
 
I just love the new chat title
 
Anonymous
@ter
4
 
Anonymous
3:10 PM
it's good isn't it
 
init
 
shutdown
 
Man, these self-assembly 3D printer kits are a pain in the arse!
 
@DaveRandom The hosts file should probably be reloaded anyway.
 
@kelunik well I wondered about that as well. Either we prime it on startup and treat all config as permanent, or we treat all config as ephemeral and periodically reload it (in the latter case I'd suggest checking the file mod time e.g. once a minute)
 
3:15 PM
@DaveRandom I like treating it as ephemeral.
 
Do we have any filesystem watch APIs available in any amp drivers?
as in proper OS-level ones
 
no
I'd love to see some though
 
@bwoebi OK. I'm fine with either option as long as there is an agreed policy.
 
@DaveRandom Why not use inotify instead of polling mtime? mtime isn't even reliable on some systems.
 
@Sherif do you have a builtin inotify binding in php-src!?
I just know of some small pecl ext…
 
3:19 PM
We can utilise it if it is loaded
 
Why does it have to be "builtin"?
 
and fallback to mtime
 
builtin in PHP is dubious, really.
 
Are PECL/inotify resources select()able?
 
@DaveRandom don't know. You'll need to look up code/try it.
 
3:22 PM
@DaveRandom It's a stream resource so... I would imagine so. Although I can't remember the last time I actually touched inotify in PHP.
 
@DaveRandom Treat it like the system resolver, and that one reloads every time.
@DaveRandom I didn't really work on the content yet, just a few words there to build the navigation thing.
 
@Sherif it seems to use the default stream handlers, would have to experiment with it
 
3:44 PM
@kelunik Yeah, we definitely need more examples in docs of using promises and creating coroutines.
@kelunik That's the nature of an interop interface. We're not going to standardize React's interface.
@kelunik If Amp is the only lib implementing the standard, yes. But there's already interest from others, and hopefully it could someday pressure React to implement the standard.
 
If I were to provide examples of my work, and I don't have anything worthwhile that's recent, could I just build a calculator using the requested languages?
For a potential employer, would that suffice?
 
@Trowski Then we need to present strong reasons why it's important and for whom it's important.
 
this is reminding me of mozilla vs ie way back when... I'm curious to see who emerges as opera
 
@Tiffany I wouldn't provide anything, just ask them to give you a task.
 
@kelunik React is the de-facto standard for async in PHP… unlike other interop projects, there really isn't competition for React. I'm not sure we can present something where React benefits or doesn't require change.
 
3:50 PM
@DejanMarjanovic they're asking for examples though
I have plenty of knowledge with HTML/CSS, I just haven't had many opportunities to write any at work lately. My job goes all over the place.
 
@kelunik We can put in support for React promises… it'll add some complexity to our combinators, but users will probably appreciate it.
If we offered an official React loop impl. that hooks into our global event loop (like I did with Icicle) then we could claim Amp was completely compatible with React.
 
@Trowski I'd like to stop naming it defacto-standard, slowly.
 
@bwoebi We're slowly making progress, but pretty slowly.
 
@bwoebi Of course so would I. But we need to offer an alternative first.
 
3:56 PM
@kelunik Better comparison is the event-loop package: packagist.org/packages/react/event-loop/stats
They have no reason to accommodate us… Amp is just noise as far as React is concerned.
 
@Trowski so, the way to go is marketing amp aggressively until react does have to make concessions?
 
@Trowski @bwoebi The main issue is that the interop specs do not really make sense. It only really makes sense to have a standard implementation directly.
 
Morning.
 
@bwoebi We need to give people a reason to use Amp. I think because there's so much code that's React compatible, we need to allow users to use that existing code by baking in support.
 
@Trowski … or we just need to really stabilize our own codebase so that there's enough incentive to directly migrate to amp.
 

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