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9:01 PM
@Andrea do you think it's a good idea to prefer casting to string in case of function foo(int|string) and foo(5.0) (float passed) … that simplifies the rules table (i.e. no "if lossless") … But then it's really as simple as it could become.
 
I thought "use Log;" would be the same as "use Log as Log;" but when I use the first example I get "Warning: The use statement with non-compound name 'Log' has no effect"
 
@bwoebi I think the preferred cast to int is weird... Just go to string if available.
 
I've got/had the zend_extension_entry
 
@Trowski yeah, that's what I'm asking…
 
but it seems like there's more to it than that. Maybe something in the makefile, maybe not...
 
9:06 PM
@Dereleased But really, don't ask me to help you out with that one … I don't know much about setting zend extensions up, sorry ;-)
 
something
there's not a whole lot of info floating around the world on that bit, it seems
 
@joshhunt really the second should issue a similar warning because they are both redundant, I guess it doesn't bother to check whether aliases make logical sense and just does what you ask without questioning it (which all compilers will do to some extent)
 
Ah ok, thanks
 
@Andrea fyi, I got told multiple times the table is much better … so probably retaining it…
 
@Dereleased Are you getting a compile error?
 
9:09 PM
@Jeeves I lol'd pretty hard at this. Well done.
 
no
It does look like it's in the object list during compilation, but it isn't doing anything
 
@Trowski Are you okay with github.com/async-interop/event-loop/pull/… as a compromise?
 
@JayIsTooCommon did you have some issues with the rebase? :-P
 
Anonymous
<.<
 
Anonymous
>.>
 
Anonymous
9:18 PM
Possibly....
 
Anonymous
I was hoping if I didn't mention my new pull request to you, you wouldn't notice...
 
@Dereleased No error and no output sounds frustrating. Is the source available?
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Do you remember what hotel you stayed in for scphp 2015?
 
@JayIsTooCommon For the record, the simplest thing to do with that kind of scenario is git reset --soft HEAD~1; git stash; git pull --rebase upstream master; git stash pop
@JayIsTooCommon Yes, it was called "@Fabor's flat". Was nice, good service. I believe they've had a change of staff though.
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Ok noted, thanks. I should of probably asked in the first place
 
9:23 PM
However /cc @Jimbo @Danack
I seem to recall Phil complaining that his hotel wasn't great so don't go there (but I don't know where that was)
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom ah, sounds unique... :p
 
@JayIsTooCommon where are you coming from?
 
Anonymous
Ok so avoid Phils hotel and go to Fabors flat. Got it :D
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Exeter
 
Oh that's not too bad
The conf venue is like 5 mins walk from the railway station, you could probably day trip it
depends when the last train is I suppose
 
9:25 PM
@adsr Not readily
 
Anonymous
Weirdly the train is like 3 and a half hour trip so I'd have to get up early am to get there for 8 which means I'll be zombified all day. So I think going there Friday may be the best option. £250 all together, could be worse
 
@JayIsTooCommon wtf, you could drive it in about a third of that
You got to go up to Bristol or something?
I have no idea what the rail network on the south coast is laid out like
 
user895378
Watch out for the vicious chicken.
 
btw @JayIsTooCommon I don't know what it will be like this year but last year the post-conf social at the venue wasn't great, because the venue weren't really geared for it properly. It ended up with about half of the conf in the pub over the road (which was a good pub)
@rdlowrey It's the viscous chicken you really have to watch. Take your eyes off it for even a minute and you're squelching for a week.
 
Anonymous
Ikr, I mean I can drive, just not legally. I don't think so, but I have to change at Salisbury? Wherever that is.
 
user895378
9:29 PM
The viscous chicken is a whole other thing. It's what McDonalds uses for its nuggets.
 
Anonymous
@rdlowrey are you high?
 
user895378
lol, no, my brain is fried from a long day at work :)
 
Anonymous
:P
 
Huh, 133 mile from Exeter to Portsmouth, wouldn't have thought that
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Well I won't know anyone there anyway so I'll just pretend I'm sending a really important text to blend in :3
 
9:34 PM
Conferences are one of the only places I feel comfortable just walking up to people and introducing myself
Anyway there will be some 11ites there I guess
Highly recommend talking to people as much as possible, it doesn't take long to find someone worth talking to
even if it is @Jimbo
 
@rdlowrey This reminds me: the other day I decided to give Burger King a chance. It let me down. I will never willingly go to a BK ever again.
McDonalds is in the same situation except I might actually go there because of the playpen.
 
Anonymous
Haha, i guess. Hey, at least when someone asks me about rebasing (which is bound to happen) I can nail it. Anything else, I'm gonna flop.
 
@LeviMorrison I'm not sure they'd let you in
 
Ha! I'd bring my kids ofc
 
:-P
 
9:38 PM
But they will never keep me out of the ball bit.
 
!!xkcd grownups
 
Anonymous
Speaking of flopping, did you see the big D in the eu questioning? O.o Hasn't gone down well.
 
@DaveRandom dude. I have ~1000 playpen balls. It takes so little space...
 
^ I also have roughly this many and it is disappointing
Luckily they are also very cheap
 
9:41 PM
true
 
Anonymous
 
I'll probably have to buy some more soon, I pick up some smashed ones every now and then
 
@nikita2206 well, I'd argue since we don't have a typedef system, that's a moot point ;-)
 
(I have 2 dogs who love it when they find one out of the playpen)
 
9:57 PM
@ircmaxell We do have a system for creating and loading named symbols that could easily accommodate a formal declarative syntax though, like callable Foo(string $bar): int; which behaves just like any other named symbol declaration. Autoloading isn't great with this approach but composer "files" solves that well enough.
I don't see some kind of general typedef construct as the right approach though
 
@JayIsTooCommon Myself and a friend will be staying in the lysses house hotel fareham - I'd recommend looking that way for hotels, rather than in Portsmouth itself, which seems to lack them.
 
...and to be fair, if you've ever been there, you will understand why people aren't anxious to stay there
 
btw, I suggest we all mark our badges with "R11" if you want to meet other room 11's.....
 
@bwoebi That's actually somewhat annoying, as I'll have to have disable() throw on an invalid watcher, but then catch the exception in cancel().
Actually... n/m, I don't have to catch, but I'll have to check for watcher existence in cancel() to avoid throwing. Not a big deal actually.
The watcher's existence will be checked twice, but that's cheap.
Is it possible in libev or libuv for a watcher callback to be invoked even after cancelling? Say it if was in the queue already?
 
@DaveRandom which symbol table would that go into?
 
10:06 PM
@ircmaxell The class symbol table, we don't need yet more symbol tables
It would also be used like a class
(i.e. not use callable Foo;)
It could also be autoloaded like a class but decl-per-file is not great, hence the "files" comment
Basically @ircmaxell what I want is C# delegates
That does not automatically mean I would vote against this though, as the two are not incompatible
What is proposed could be seen as an "anonymous" declaration
 
right
we're on the same page
and in agreement
 
@Trowski dunno, you'll need to test it
 
@bwoebi It look like UV can, but it does so with a UV_CANCELLED flag, so we can just ignore it in the loop and not forward the call.
Since disable() will be called in callbacks, I wouldn't want a callback invoked on a cancelled watcher.
^ Perhaps this should be added to the spec.
 
@Trowski isn't that … the definition of disable?
But feel free to make that clear
 
Wes
evenings
 
Anonymous
10:18 PM
@Danack I just managed to get one called The Shio Leopard, which is apparently pretty close but I'm dubious as the guy who I booked with sounded like he had half a face. But I'll check again tomorrow and go from there
 
@bwoebi Heh, well true.
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom Is it rough?
 
I just think it's funny there's loops where it is possible.
 
@Trowski fix the loops then!
 
@JayIsTooCommon it's soulless
 
10:20 PM
@bwoebi I mean like libuv. I'm sure it's intentional. :-P
 
@Trowski Not working as we need it == buggy
 
@bwoebi I'll look at the extension when I get around to writing that loop.
 
^^
 
Should Loop::stop() stop a recursively running loop, or just "stop" that iteration?
 
@Trowski stop that iteration
 
10:22 PM
That is, if Loop::run() is called twice, two calls to Loop::stop() are required.
 
yes
else we get problems when we nest Loop::execute() on the same loop
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom haha oh joy.
 
No, there's none of that
 
@Trowski One loop->run() must return though (if loop->stop() is called for the first time) … needs to be specified too
 
Anonymous
I'll be arriving at midnight anyway, so if soulless means less chance of me being mugged, I'm all for it :p
 
10:24 PM
@bwoebi Right. I just have to store the previous number of times loop->run() was called in case a callback throws so I can restore it.
How about multiple calls to stop() before the loop actually stops?
Those should be considered 1 call.
 
@Trowski ignore.
yes
 
Ok, easy to implement then.
 
But needs to be specified
 
@DaveRandom But please make it generalizable to other constructs if we do that. Like:
type Iterable = Array | Traversable;
 
@LeviMorrison why? why not union Iterable = Array | Traversable;
 
10:28 PM
type LessThanComparator = callable($a, $b): bool;
 
1 hour ago, by bwoebi
@Andrea do you think it's a good idea to prefer casting to string in case of function foo(int|string) and foo(5.0) (float passed) … that simplifies the rules table (i.e. no "if lossless") … But then it's really as simple as it could become.
also @Levi … ^
 
I don't understand why having different explicit keywords for declaring different types of symbol is a bad thing
 
@DaveRandom because there's no benefit… It's semantically the same … usable at the same places for the same things
 
The benefit is that it's more explicit
And in any case, even if you did have a single mechanism for unions and intersections, I don't understand why callables should be lumped in with them
 
Wes
@DaveRandom also because type Foo = A | B | (C & D); (both union and intersection)
 
10:31 PM
@DaveRandom it's already explicit … on the right side of the assign
@DaveRandom because, why not?
you technically could have unions between callables too
 
I see callable types as a different level to composite types. They are symbols in the same way that classes and interfaces and scalars are, they define a very specific type of entity. Unions and intersections are composed of multiple entities - they are less specific.
typedef is a way to alias and group collections of existing things, but a callable prototype is a thing that needs to be brought into existence
 
@DaveRandom classes and interfaces are totally different though… you cannot just use them interchangeably everywhere (e.g. you cannot implement a class)
a type of union, interscection or callable can be used everywhere in the exactly same way and interchangeably
 
That's not the point, the point is that they are single symbols in the same way, at the same layer, as a callable prototype
unions and intersections are at a higher layer of abstraction
that's not quite the right word, I know what I mean and I'm really bloody certain I'm right but I'm struggling to explain myself :-(
 
@DaveRandom They're not. They're at the same level.
 
I disagree. One is a type, the other is a composition of other types.
 
10:39 PM
@DaveRandom a callable(Foo, Bar):Baz is a composition of three types in a particular way
and a composition of types is still a type. (< that's the key point of my argumentation)
 
@bwoebi No, no it isn't. It looks like it is because it uses a bunch of other symbols but it isn't. They are more analogous to typed properties than they are to union members.
 
@DaveRandom And even if it's not:
1 min ago, by bwoebi
and a composition of types is still a type. (< that's the key point of my argumentation)
 
@bwoebi No, it's a type alias.
 
a type alias is still a type for what it's worth
 
The thing that I just can't reconcile about this is the way you would reflect on it
 
10:43 PM
(A&B)|(C&D) is an union of two types. These two types are each intersections of two other types. These other types are class names.
@DaveRandom reflect as in Reflection? It all inherits from a base class type and then polymorphically you have different ways to access it.
 
for the sake of argument, imagine that this is the accepted reflection API gist.github.com/DaveRandom/5080dd15d39be2d8984bcfadd4863c16
 
Wes
imho type is enough for both cases, but we could force callables to be declared alone. ie disallow type Foo = callable(int):Bar | Baz;
 
show me how that API looks when you have this generalised typedef
 
class ReflectionAlias extends ReflectionType {
    function getRealThing(): ReflectionType;
}
and that returned ReflectionType is then some instance of any of these classes
 
How can I do this in MySQL
search_keywords_name LIKE ', $keyword, '
 
10:48 PM
@DaveRandom so… what am I missing?
 
one string before the variable and one after for mysql query
?
 
@bwoebi I think I'm actually won over... but now I'm wondering why it is that you've voted against the callable prototypes RFC? If you are arguing that you should be able to use unions and intersections anonymously but not able to use callable prototypes anonymously that seems pretty inconsistent
 
@DaveRandom That's totally unrelated
 
How so?
 
It's related to return type variance
see the discussion from two hours ago
 
Wes
10:52 PM
@DaveRandom function allowsNull(): bool; shouldn't go in union?
 
Anyone please help. Its a simple question.
 
@bwoebi lazy, link?
 
3 hours ago, by ircmaxell
Out of curiosity, why the hate for the callable prototypes RFC?
@DaveRandom was searching…^^
/me takes a shower… time to get ready to drive 2.5 hours in light (or maybe no so light :x) rain…
 
@bwoebi that's not a good reason at all IMO
/me also bails
 
@DaveRandom yeah… It's not a very strong reason, but it's just enough for me the vote no. I could have abstained, but I'm definitely not happy enough to be +1.
 
10:59 PM
@DaveRandom See it more as a "we're not fully certain that this is the way it should work, so vote no to stay on the safe side"
 
@DaveRandom The key point is that a composition of types is also a single type. It's a single type that describes the composite.
 
11:17 PM
> @bwoebi I think I'm actually won over... ~~~ he got it now ;-)
 
@adsr I did manage to get it working eventually, I'll make some notes about everything it took before the end of time
@AbrarAhmed use '.' instead of ','?
 
Thank you very much
I really appreciate it. :0
 
Just make sure whatever you're injecting into your SQL is safe from SQLi!
@bwoebi When do I need to subtract op_array->last_var? IS_TMP_VAR | IS_VAR ?
 
@Dereleased yip
 
But any given znode_op* is a union, so I cannot determine its type without the rest of the opline?
 
11:31 PM
@Dereleased but op1_type/op2_type/result_type on zend_op struct
 
trying to keep main source clean with some macros, but it'll be ok
Generic C question, why are there so many types ending in "_t"?
 
@Dereleased the union is just for avoiding casts … it's a generic 4 byte storage for anything (and meaning depends on type (or even opcode in case of unused)
@Dereleased archaic convention to mark something as a Typedef'd thing
 
Sometimes, when established users start using room11 more, I can't help but think it's because they lost I mean changed jobs lately.
 
I dislike it too, but some people still use it…
@FélixGagnon-Grenier why?
 
I get the idea, and I'm sure there is a good reason I just don't know why znode_op is preferred to znode
 
11:35 PM
@bwoebi Littlefinger says so
 
@Dereleased because a znode is a much larger thing. Memory usage constraints are real (caches etc.)
 
just realized... is that crafty guy in game of thrones really named littlefinger? there's a saying in french that goes something like "I know because my little finger says so" ([literally the little finger on a hand)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Yes… His real name is Petyr Baelish, but everyone calls him Littlefinger
 
how ironic. I love it
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Are you reading the books currently (or watching the series)?
 
11:39 PM
apologies for barging in a completely serious conversation with badly phrased puns
@bwoebi both. I'm quite up to date with the series, almost at end of book three
I'll assume you read and watched all of that @bwoebi
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Haven't watched season 6 yet … waiting for it to finish in order to consume them all at once.
but yip
 
@bwoebi Just noticed the in-compilation resolution of static math, is that new for 7, or a feature of opCache, or neither?
 
@Dereleased both
 
new for 7 but only in opCache?
 
new in 7, but opcache already did it before
 
11:43 PM
aha
I'm out for the evening, but I'll bug you guys tomorrow. Thanks for all of your help
 
Wes
 

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