« first day (1754 days earlier)      last day (3194 days later) » 

11:00 PM
ah right
 
If you try to normalize this, you end up with a mess, even at SQL level
 
@ircmaxell I need to get myself one. I'm using my webcam's because my earphones' broke.
 
you will end up with a pivot table with just an ID and shared fields, and then sub-tables with other data, and then triggers to verify data integrity @_@
 
I tend to like to arrange the data on disk with the ways it's mostly queried. I love composite keys. Because you can take the left parts and get a good slice on a table.
So with BC, people on one side may be filtering the data differently than the other side
 
right
 
11:02 PM
People just automatically think a auto-increment id should be the key
That's not always the best way to arrange the data
 
@Danack I applaud your efforts to make PHP consistent and sensible wrt callables
(okay, is Danack gone? good.)
 
...
Bet some people still vote against it.
 
Yes, it's costly in innodb to have that secondary key, so all things must be considered
 
(fear him. Dan Ackroyd seems to think PHP can be fixed. Run for your lives.)
 
I tend to like to index (primary) the data by natural key whenever possible
 
11:03 PM
And as I said before, I need to re-write the RFC as some people didn't get wtf I was talking about.
 
Oh, uh, hi there Dan. Didn't see you there.
 
From actors & musicians to painters & scientists - These are the faces of autism. @MrDanack @dhlovelife @Courtney http://t.co/P65bJ00Ln0
 
How do you guys get those tweets in here?
 
Magic.gif
 
twitter.com/mathiasverraes is going to make me join twitter
 
11:04 PM
@Danack ha
 
I've resisted joining twitter for so long
 
@DavidGraham you're not on twatter? How are you supposed to be a proper twat?
 
@Danack .....@ircmaxell doesn't like magic
@Ocramius because twitter doesn't have a user type called "listener"
 
I don't think anybody with > 5 years of professional development experience actually does
 
lol
everyone thinks they are worthy of tweeting
 
11:06 PM
HEAR MY OPINION IT IS IMPORTANT!
hrhr
 
and ... ^ stealing that and calling it my opinion now
although we are all sharing information in life really
 
Is there a way in Chrome dev tools to persuade it to show the actual request/response? i.e. I want to see a 304 rather than the cached 200.
 
I think it's fun though to (every once in a long while) create a crazy function and just comment it as // magic
Honestly though....at the molecular level....magic is happening. The communication is magic. We never experience those things touching (like we do in the rest of the larger physical world)
 
@DavidGraham can haz
 
I suppose the real debate is....pratical magic versus. dark black ugly voodoo magic
 
11:10 PM
@Danack don't you have this checkbox?
 
@Ocramius my eyes are bleeding
 
I bet they do :P
 
I want the cache on, I just want to see the response headers for the not 'modified 304' response. Instead of showing that it's showing the response headers of the original 200 response.
 
@Danack that request isn't even executed if it's a "not modified"
 
I love chrome dev tools. I remember I switched to it from Firebug long ago when something happened with Firebug (it would go incredibly slow!). I think Firebug is better now though.
 
11:13 PM
@Ocramius yeah... it is? Request sent to server, I'm generating a 304 response with some other headers (which I want to check are sane), and then when it gets back to chrome it's then that it's using the original 200 response.
 
*better than it was before
@Ocramius I'm watching that talk on Identity from Matheus....but I'm curious how I can denote a property is a Value Object in my entity?
If I'm not using setters, so instead I can perhaps denote it in construction. But what if the property is not required to bet set on construction?
So that leaves just a php docblock comment?
Or a private setter?
 
@tereško I agree, Windows really is designed by people who do not know what they are doing, given that almost every change made since 95 was clearly done with complete and utter disregard for usability and user experience.
;)
 
@Andrea windows was designed to do a LOT
that's its problem
 
no
 
@Danack ah, I was assuming the browser was just skipping everything
 
11:23 PM
Windows' problem is that Microsoft only tried to make a usable OS once.
 
take Apple for example....you have to "hack-in-tosh" to make it do things windows does
 
@DavidGraham I didn't understand your question
 
@DavidGraham no. Linux and OS X do a lot too.
 
And that was from 1993-1995
 
there are pros and cons. Unfortunately I am not polarized in apple or windows or linux. I like things about each, and hate things about each.
 
11:24 PM
Microsoft did usability studies. They saw how people used Windows. They radically changed the UI to make it something effective for both novices and power users
And what they did worked
 
Linux doesn't do a lot GUI wise
 
Novices would now be able to use the computer with very little instructions. Power users could work more effectively. It was great.
I don't think they've ever actually tried this since
They have made some advances. NT's stability, minor usability enhancements
But they've done a lot to make Windows worse
Windows 98 integrated IE and put ads on the desktop
 
@Ocramius say I have an address Value Object. I have a property on my user entity called $address. How do I denote it is a Value Object? If I don't use setters, and I don't require it on entity constructor?
 
XP added Activation
Vista... actually, I can't fault Vista much. Nor 7.
 
@Andrea ads on the desktop? Can't remember anything like that from the times using XP…
 
11:26 PM
8 decided to throw away the whole shebang, because tablets.
@bwoebi Oh, XP got rid of that, mostly.
 
Windows didn't get a chance at a fresh start like Apple
 
Ah, I only know 95 and XP actually ^^
 
@DavidGraham It did get a chance! NT.
NT is to Windows as OS X is to Mac OS
 
Windows is by definition, legacy compatible. Look at apple, they make you replace your charger every year
 
@DavidGraham it's a private property and it's not a strictly typed language. Docblock + testing all the types
 
11:28 PM
@DavidGraham Apple also maintained compatibility. They just don't maintain it for quite as long.
 
@Ocramius ok, gotcha
@Andrea that's a key point
 
@DavidGraham … Do you really still use XP software on your Win 10?
 
They're user-base has the money to start fresh more often. Also, Apple is more for creative things (not infrastructure stuff). If you are playing around, get an Apple. If you need stuff to talk to stuff and get stuff done, get a PC.
 
@bwoebi they probably use software relying on XP-era deprecated APIs
 
Both are great in the context they focus in.
 
11:30 PM
@DavidGraham Windows is a mess, but it's not just because of backwards-compatibility
 
@bwoebi It's not hard for windows devs. to refactor up to newer version
 
it's more likely a result of the mess that Microsoft is
 
@Andrea I am actually quite amused that Windows has some deprecated POSIX compatibility API… well… we're in php-src using that API all the time ^^
 
@bwoebi o.O
 
@Andrea I'm not saying Windows is perfect. It is pretty messy. But people lately haven't given it the credit it's due I believe.
 
11:31 PM
Oh sure, MS try hard
and it does some things right
 
I'm coding very effectively on a PC. Virtualbox and all. Shared mount works great. It was a little tricky, but it's working great. Oh, and also I can do some hardcore gaming at the end of the day on the same laptop PC (muhahah)
Where would PC gaming be without windows?
I don't mean PC gaming yesterday, I mean even today
Apple = nope. Linux = under construction
Not that I'm a big gamer (no time really) but just to support that you are going to introduce a lot of problems in your architecture
@Andrea the real (sad) answer is....
PC, Apple, and Linux all have their strengths.
 
@Andrea like e.g. msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms235350.aspx … they have all "Use the ISO C++ conformant _<name> instead" notices
 
@DavidGraham No different, Windows does nothing particularly special
 
We are kind of forced to become proficient in all 3. And that's not fun
 
If BeOS were the dominant platform in the 90s and 00s, games would've been written for it instead
 
11:35 PM
@Andrea I already mentioned gaming.
 
@DavidGraham OS X has great gaming support
 
It does a lot of things special in comparison to Apple
 
@DavidGraham Sure
 
maybe less in comparision with Linux
 
@DavidGraham such as?
 
11:36 PM
Driver diversity and you can replace hardware
upgrade it, etc
more hardware diversity and freedom
 
Both existed for the mac during the nineties
And it's not an OS thing anyway
 
We aren't talking about the nineties. You claimed Windows was good then
Although I miss the simplier times of the 90's. ;-p
 
I think it was more consistent and had more consideration for usability. Was it good? Eh, no, it was bad in many ways. Some of those ways have been fixed since.
But Mac OS was never the dominant OS, so it's not going to matter gaming-wise anyway
 
It was good. I'm pragmatic enough to admit that.
Mac OS never had networking either til more recent years
 
uh, what
 
11:39 PM
even though it's built on linux
 
The very first Macintosh had networking.
 
or forked and built on
 
Abe
the only thing that is blocking me from moving to linux is adobe. i wouldn't be surprised if apple paid adobe for not to make ps/ai for linux
 
Not networking in the sense of windows, in your home
 
Unlike Windows, which gained proper networking support circa... 3.1, I think? Well, TCP/IP was 95 really.
 
11:40 PM
@Abe same here!
 
Abe
because i don't see why not supporting linux. i don't think osx is that different from linux
 
Adobe photoshop to be specific
Once they release it in linux based system, I'm saying good buy to Windows
 
@Abe the underlying OS is like any other. the desktop environment and ecosystem is what sets it apart
 
Abe
@Andrea but most of apps that run on linux run also on osx, and with few modifications, afaik
 
@Andrea what do you develop on? (not for, but on)
 
11:42 PM
@Abe yes, but not vice-versa
 
what's your host OS when developing (not guest/target)
?
 
@DavidGraham OS X. I got fed up with Linux due to driver support and horrid user experience for things other than development, and with Windows due to a horrid user experience for development
 
Abe
@Andrea it can't be more different than supporting osx and windows, which are entirely different
 
@Andrea You think OS X has good user experience for everything?
 
@Abe Windows has its own proprietary platform. OS X has its own proprietary platform with open components. Linux has an open platform.
 
Abe
11:43 PM
lots of professionals use linux. apple bought the exclusivity, i'm pretty sure of that. otherwise would be too stupid to not support linux
 
yeah, Linux drivers get annoying. I can't even get a track-pad working well there. But it doesn't go past "annoying" yet for me
 
Thus, apps written for Linux run on OS X or Windows, but the reverse is rarely the case.
@bwoebi Not quite
 
@Andrea Why did you then choose it over Win and Linux?
 
But I can do things like play games, watch movies, browse the web, manage files, do some novel task requiring unusual software, edit movies, etc.
 
I love OSX and Linux terminals. It's a joy to work with. Windows Powershell is crap IMO
The networking tools there are great tool. Even though Windows network is more user friendly for not-technical folks
 
11:45 PM
These are all things which, to varying degrees, were (and are) difficult to do on Linux.
 
Again....my claim is that all 3 are pertinent. We really have to be proficient on all 3. Sad, costly, and true.
 
Well, you can be if you want
 
No one out does the other enough for me to warrant a complete avoidance.
 
I use OS X because I don't want to juggle two operating systems
 
@Andrea that's a mirage
OSX is going to clash with some Linux stuff, just wait, you haven't pushed it deep enough.
 
11:47 PM
...?
 
Virtualization is getting stronger and stronger anyways
won't matter
 
okay, virtualisation doesn't solve anything
really
 
@DavidGraham It's annoying to switch between virtualized envs
 
virtualisation means you can have a virtual dedicated machine
or a virtual dual boot
We could do these things before! It's just cheaper (and slower) with virtualisation.
 
It's annoying to create those environments. But vagrant + virtualbox makes it cheap and easy to have them.
Once you create them, it's easy to fire them up/down
 
11:48 PM
Well, sure, but that doesn't really solve much
 
and share mount
 
I have a virtual Linux box. Now what?
I have a virtual Windows 95 box and ReactOS box. OK, but how is that useful?
 
A virtual box is useful because you need a developing environment that is different from the code execution environment.
For example, on your dev machine you need Photoshop.
But the website code should be run in a different OS that is less "Graphics" and more "network"
so you put it on ngix or something
in linux
 
@DavidGraham Oh… do I?
 
@DavidGraham why not just use an OS that can do both
 
11:51 PM
It's all about strenghts and weaknesses (for now)
 
look, yes, you can use whatever OS is best fit for some particular thing
but that requires much more resources, and lots of context switching
 
@bwoebi I missed what the sarcasm is communicating there
;-p
much more resources?
 
@DavidGraham that wasn't sarcasm, that was a question whether I really do need a different dev env.
 
have you seen how much RAM you can get in a laptop almost as thin as a macbook air these days?
Check out the MSI Stealth Pro
laptop
 
that's wonderful if you have the money and opportunity to purchase a new laptop
good for you
 
11:53 PM
Nope, I'm resourceful. I get manufact. refurb.
Work smarter, not costlier
:-)
not being snarky, just enjoying the conversation. It's a fruitful discussion really. These OS' choices can be maddening.
 
@DavidGraham well… 16 GB becomes more and more standard today… and 32 GB is also already quite common for desktops… laptops will have that in 1-2 years.
 
yeah, supports what I'm saying
dont be skerd of virtualization
your browser is kind of a "virtualization"
 
@DavidGraham I'm scared with less than 16 GB for virtualization…
 
a process is a kind of virtualisation
 
^ nice
 
11:55 PM
browsers, however, integrate into the OS
not perfectly, mind you, but they do
 
@Andrea do they? in what ways?
 
@bwoebi they use the same windowing toolkit
 
well, they are supposed to take code that does something on another browser and make it do the same on your OS. They fail
 
files you download go into the OS filesystem
they use the same clipboard, the same networking system, they can launch other apps on the same OS
they share input methods
they share language information
 
yeah, but those things don't make it "virtualization"
 
11:57 PM
they share display systems
@DavidGraham no, they're the things that make browsers tolerable to use
 
Abe
@bwoebi a big part of the rendering is done through the os. especially fonts, hw acceleration
 
@Andrea ah. In the way of using the APIs of the OS… I understood like custom kexts.
 
okay, I can run Windows under Parallels and it'll do some of these things, actually
it's far from seamless though
 

« first day (1754 days earlier)      last day (3194 days later) »