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7:05 PM
@Fabor Nice service you have there
 
Are there any good php tools to publish content up on a github.io repo?
 
@PDKnight ;-)
 
don't people use Jekyll for github.io building?
 
@DavidGraham some do.
 
Question: Which is better...An entity with properties and behavior. Or an anemic entity (dto?) and fat services that work with it?
 
7:11 PM
@DavidGraham Usually... iirc it just publishes static content
 
Morning guys. I came here with a new question
How can I website loading bar ?
 
In DDD, why don't people just use DTOs to pass around in fat services? Let the entities be anemic.
 
For example, if a open a website then I want to show the user, how much the site has loaded ?
 
@ZahidSaeed Browsers have loading bars built in. Are you talking about loading in the context of ajax?
 
@DavidGraham hmm?
 
7:13 PM
@ZahidSaeed you set the Content-Length header and the browser will show the progress
 
@Charles Yes I'm talking about loading something through ajax
 
@DavidGraham the entities are most probably components of the (if not THE) aggregate. You'd probably avoid having them anemic
 
@ZahidSaeed If you are using a library for ajax, look up how it handles ajax status information. You can have it create callbacks when requests start and end. You can use these callbacks to show loading information to the user.
 
@Orangepill I know that but how can I get the content-length of external files that are linked with my PHP file ?
In other words, I want to make a website pre-loader
Once the website is fully loaded, then show the content else show how much the website has loaded
 
@Ocramius btw, I tried to gratispay you, but that service is strange! It's not simple. You have to start a reoccuring payment then cancel it, etc etc etc
 
7:16 PM
@DavidGraham yes, it's based on weekly tips
I used to tip 40USD/month to some OSS folks around, then stopped when they made a big fuss about their domain name change
 
lol
ok I'll look into it again then
maybe it's not so tricky to start and then cancel
 
this entire macbook pro stuff baffles me
 
So, @Ocramius anemic entity and fat services is not a viable alternative to an entity in the proper DDD sense?
 
@tereško interestingly, MacOS spikes to 99% CPU usage as soon as I plug in the second external monitor
OS bug -.-
@DavidGraham nay. You'd move to fatter services if you had performance issues somewhere
 
Anyone has any idea how to do it ?
 
7:19 PM
oh, I'm sorry, you are using the dumb-people OS
6
 
Yar, because the intelligent-people OS doesn't work with 3 monitors
 
here is the fun part: there is nothing you can do to fix it
 
or at least not with non-intelligent-nvidia-cards
indeed :P
 
@Ocramius is there any rule of thumb on deciding what behavior should be in the entity and what/when it should be in an external domain service? (or even when you should split an entity into 2?)
Is this very subjective?
 
@Ocramius it's probably because the OS isn't utilizing GPU for rendering
 
7:21 PM
@DavidGraham I just code everything in the domain first. If a problem is more complex than O(log(n)) then it is most likely that complex in the domain, and you simply have to deal with it
@tereško no, it's just a bug (and a known one): currently troubleshooting
 
@tereško Even if that was true, that hasn't been an issue since about 1994.
 
@Ocramius That's odd, I use two monitors all the time and have never seen that.
 
And yes, graphics cards used to advertise how fast they were at rendering desktops.
 
@Trowski 3 monitors
@Danack Voodoo ftw
 
@Ocramius Oh, well then... /me jealous
 
7:22 PM
@Ocramius those still seem like the new hotness.
 
Basically, the very smart people at Apple thought that it is a smart choice to throw in a deadlock process when the CPU/GPU overheats. The problem is that the CPU/GPU are not overheating (driver bug)
 
@Ocramius well, then it's probably not apple desktops. … I once had two iMacs and my Laptop in a same room… using the iMacs as screens was absolutely no problem…
 
@bwoebi yes, this is something I also had with my previous dual monitor setup btw
 
Good evening.
I just reminded myself of youtube.com/watch?v=2gm29WZpBJc :-)
Oh, tangentially related to the conversation above: Does anyone know how to get windows to mirror the desktop to >2 monitors? There must be a way but I assume the UI in control panel sucks because it only seems to let you duplicate a pair, won't let me create a single pool with the same display
(before you ask: 4 monitors, 4 heads on one card so no issues with memory pooling, Win 7 AMD64)
 
@DaveRandom When you select the monitor, there should be a dropdown that says what to do with it. Does that dropdown change when there are three monitors? I've never had the fortune.
 
7:37 PM
@Charles Yeh, it gives you "duplicate 1 and 2" and "duplicate 3 and 4" and every combination thereof but seems to be limited to 2 monitors per logical desktop display (as it were)
 
Huh.
 
It just give you more options in the regular dropdown and display 3 rectangles in the thing above to set the position, no other special features unlocked though :-P
@Charles inorite? Seems like it would be the first option, I'd expect that to be the least resource-hungry mode because you only have to render one lot of 1920x1080
I checked it against my workstation with 3 monitors and same OS, does the same thing
 
@DaveRandom Clearly you need more XP to unlock that feature.
 
But I know stuff like Ultramon can do it so I assume there's a way you can fiddle with the registry or something to do it natively
@Charles You have no idea what a rollercoaster of emotions I had when I thought that same thing earlier today
 
hmm... so disabling many (many) drivers just seems to work
wtf MacOSucks
 
7:41 PM
Hey..
 
I actually had some kind of emotional attachment with XP, I still sort of miss some parts of it
 
So the Googles suggest that ultramon is actually the standard, accepted practice for this.
 
user895378
@DaveRandom that makes two of us
 
user895378
I liked xp
 
Active desktop was really cool in the hands of people who knew how to use it properly
 
user895378
7:41 PM
Maybe it's because that was the first OS I pirated back in university before it was actually released
 
user895378
You know, kind of a reverse Stockholm syndrome thing
 
And having to go through 2 screens to get to the network connections cpl regularly pisses me off
 
I have some problem, with php.. with inserting the data into DB. I changed nothing and it does not work. It worked before. I haven't changed name of table or name of the columns
It's really weird
checked the code here?: phpcodechecker.com no errors
 
@rdlowrey I think the main thing is that it was really good, and then Vista following it reinforced the idea that it would be difficult to better it
 
ah
 
user895378
7:43 PM
It really was ... I continued using XP right up until they stopped supporting it
 
@brata Implement proper error handling so PHP tells you what error your database is trying to tell you. If you're still stuck, show us the error message and the code (use a pastebin)
 
user895378
It was good because it did what it was supposed to do and didn't have all the annoyances
 
I seem to remember a similar thing with 98 though, ME was so shitty that 2K was pretty much ignored, which is a crying shame because I would still argue it's the best OS that MS ever made
(not tried Win10 but heard mixed reports)
 
@rdlowrey It still didn't have a usable console. :P
 
user895378
lol, yes. windows is understood to be only useful as a desktop.
 
user895378
7:45 PM
I don't understand why they've never tried to improve the console experience.
 
user895378
I mean, people who work at microsoft presumable need the console too, right?
 
@rdlowrey I've got used to Win7 now and there are some things I would struggle to live without - there are a couple of 2K3 servers I occasionally have cause to touch and not being able to maximise windows by dragging them to the top of the screen drives me mad, it's a tiny thing but I don't know how I lived without it
and I use the drag to left/right for split-screen thing more than I though I would
 
user895378
I do like Win7 as well -- not as much as XP but it's fine ... I guess.
 
@rdlowrey I'd probably like it less if I was still a field engineer. They took a bunch of stuff away that I used to use a lot when I did that, 7 used to drive me crazy when it first came out
 
7:48 PM
@rdlowrey Yeah, and now they're supporting Linux in Azure, because otherwise they wouldn't have a chance.
 
I get why they did it of course, 99% of people don't want shit like that getting in the way, I just wish they'd left in a "do what I bloody tell you to" mode
 
user895378
I get why they do it (because civilians) but I hate when M$ makes it more difficult to find settings and control dialogs.
 
user895378
@DaveRandom yes, this. exactly.
 
user895378
Don't make me answer 5 word problems just to get to the stupid control panel.
 
I would love to run *nix as a workstation but I have yet to find a desktop env that I like as much as Win, even adjusting for my familiarity bias I just like it because most things are approximately sane
 
Abe
7:50 PM
evening o/
 
I want a Win UI clone for *nix, really
(sorry)
 
How to set php error showing? Cuz.. error_reporting(E_ALL); is not doing anything
 
And no, before you say it, not Ubuntu because Ubuntu is silly and should go away
 
I can't set up error reporting on the free hosting I'm using
ALso Inserting to DB sucks
 
@DaveRandom Mint with Cinnamon has a pretty close feel to XP
 
7:51 PM
They took the worst bits of linux and the mediocre bits of Windows and called it finished
 
Data are not inserted to db for no reason
I mean
 
Abe
@brata ini_set('display_errors', true)
 
ok
I will try
 
@Orangepill Never tried mint, DL'd an ISO once but never got around to finding some tin to try it
 
Ebe You are the guy I have met here before?
 
7:52 PM
(I don't do VMs with desktops, not a fair test)
 
@DaveRandom Their's a live cd if you want to check it out with no commitment.
It's basically Ubuntu without the retarded unity desktop
 

Fatal error: Class 'Checker' not found in /3w/wz.cz/j/jiggmin/CreateThread.php on line 7
nice
xD
 
@brata hosting company may have borked include path in the config if they updated
 
@brata That looks like you have a byte order mark in one of your files .....as well as not having the class defined.
 
yeah..
 
7:57 PM
13
Q: UTF-8 BOM signature in PHP files

treznikI was writing some commented PHP classes and I stumbled upon a problem. My name (for the @author tag) ends up with a ș (which is a UTF-8 character, ...and a strange name, I know). Even though I save the file as UTF-8, some friends reported that they see that character totally messed up (È™). Thi...

 
People are so nice here.. always helping
7
xD
thank you
 
@rdlowrey Since 2K arch they just didn't see much point because GUI All The Things. Then they realised that leaky abstraction is leaky (because, y'know, it's an abstraction, and not one single one ever has worked perfectly) so they made powershell, and presumably assigned the same guy who did Win ME because the result sucks huge throbbing testes.
TL;DR install msys bash and stick your fingers in your ears
 
@kelunik No, why?
 
Oh, also install superputty because it rocks
 
?? is not a valid rhs for a by-ref assignment
fo =& takes precedence and the ?? is just dead code
 
8:01 PM
by-ref is weird
 
user895378
@DaveRandom Oh there's a superputty? I've been using regular putty for all my work.
 
i use sillyputty
 
user895378
I'm using "PuTTy Tray, a fork of PuTTy" ... apparently.
 
Superputty is just a wrapper over putty (depends on it) that gives you a tabbed and generally more sexy UI
Basically a window manager for putty
 
I wish they'd fix the focus problem.
 
8:04 PM
@Charles Yeh, running it with PHP Storm which also has oddities can quickly drive you mad
However I have found that alt-tab switches never fail
And since that's what I'm programmed to do anyway, it doesn't annoy me too much
 
does mariadb offer anything over mysql?
 
@Orangepill It's "properly" open source, which IMO does count for something, esp. where Oracle are concerned
But use PG. seriously.
Once you get comfortable with PG you will wonder how you ever managed without it
 
The one single thing PG still does worse than MySQL is replication, but they're getting there fast.
 
@Charles "Raw" MySQL replication is also terrible, the only reason that is true is Percona
(IMHO)
 
@DaveRandom 110% agreed. Just had to clean up yet another replication problem at work today;
We use multimaster, in statement mode because we're still on 5.1.
It works most of the time, but when it fails....
 
8:16 PM
In fact, I'll put it this way: I've been doing a lot of stuff with MS SQL recently, which is truly horrible in many ways, but I've found a few things even in there that make me not miss MySQL - being able to tell the execution planner what to do has been a big win a few times, like reducing execution times by a couple of orders of magnitude sometimes. I could live without that if the execution planner worked properly in MySQL but it just doesn't
@Charles Yeh I've seen people needing to write custom scripts to process the repl logs more than once
 
@DaveRandom Yup, we wrote one back in 2007... haven't had things get so screwed up that we needed to use it in about five years, but .. yeah.
 
8:39 PM
So I know we should have setters. But it just hurts that we can do a quick update on an entity like this:
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$user->setPhone('111-1111');
$userRepo->save($user);
What's a quick way to update an attribute on an entity without setters?
 
Anonymous
magic getter and setters
 
Public parameters....
 
I think this is ugly:
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$dto = new \Users\UpdateBasicDTO();
$dto->setPhone("111-1111");
$user->updateBasicInfo($dto);
$userRepo->save();
@samaYo I don't like magic
@Danack people say public parameters are an anti-pattern
 
\Users\UpdateBasicDTO::changePhone("111-1111")
 
*correction on above statement (I know we SHOULDN'T have setters) sorry
 
8:43 PM
tbh I don't have experience of the problem you think you have, so I have no real advice to give.
 
@Danack what sort of ways to you solve it?
I mean, you don't use DDD approach, what do you do instead?
 
Anonymous
@DavidGraham make your own orm then, I started out with this gist.github.com/samayo/c6fd1f4d54bf8377e75c and made one myself.
 
You just have anemic classes that you use an ORM with?
@samYo checking....
LOL
 
Anonymous
Don't check it, it's crap ..
 
this is hilarious
 
Anonymous
8:47 PM
even the newer one is crap too :)
 
Anonymous
And that is my point ..
 
haha
yeah funny comments, and even more dizzying code!
 
Anonymous
Yeah, of all my pet projects the hardest one for me was an ORM.
 
where's @Ocramius the DDD (and doctrine) specialist. Even though I don't use doctrine.
I suppose I don't have ORM hate any more. But I feel they don't do much for me. The payoff isn't there, if I write really good domain.
 
Anonymous
I would only use heavy applications like doctrine, if I was working on a super computer to get data of every atom in the universe.
 
8:51 PM
ie. ORM maybe one day gives me cascade delete. Not that much of a big deal. I have a method in my domain for $userRepo->delete($user) that I can update to cascade delete.
 
Hey, I've got an issue
I do a lot of PHP on the CLI and (not sure why or when it started) errors are no longer output to STDERR
 
@AustinBurk put in a php chat work order
j/k
 
If I change it to stderr in the php.ini, it outputs errors to apache too
it's driving me nuts and I can't debug a single thing because it's not outputting anything that's error_log'd or errors
 
@bwoebi insert a newline before you reply next time ;-)
 
@ircmaxell where?
 
8:54 PM
@bwoebi Crypto thread, probably.
 
oh the mails…
yeah, I see. Forgot it, it seems…
 
PHP 5.6.6
This only started like...perhaps a week ago
 
news.php.net/php.internals/87655 yeah, not a problem now that I look at it, but in gmail looks weird like it's an inline reply
 
And I can't recall when, exactly
 
@DavidGraham that's not the point, tbh. The point is just avoiding rewriting most of that stuff yourself. Mappers aren't simple to maintain, as they are not really based on the object API
 
8:57 PM
```
[root@node1 php-scripts]# php -c /etc/php5/cli/php.ini -r " error_log('test 123'); "
test 123
[root@node1 php-scripts]# php -c /etc/php.ini -r " error_log('test 123'); "
[root@node1 php-scripts]#
```
aha!
oh wait, /etc/php5/cli/php.ini doesn't even exist
 
@tereško StupidOS was simple to fix: I amputated the drivers that were borked.
 
@ircmaxell stupid gmail :-D // yeah… usually putting a newline there, but seems I've just forgotten it.
 
error_log = /var/log/httpd/php_cli_error_log

when did this come intoo existen...duh! when I was messing with the crontab!
 
@Ocramius does this look ugly to you?
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$dto = new \Users\UpdateBasicDTO();
$dto->setPhone("111-1111");
$user->updateBasicInfo($dto);
$userRepo->save();
 
YAS IT WORKS NOW
Thank you so much! :D
Even though you did nothing!
Your simple presence brought me to the solution!
Bye now! :)
 
9:06 PM
@Ocramius it seems I gain little by using the DTO over the setter directly on the entity. In other words, some entities just have "attributes". CRUD-like attributes.
I'm just wondering if the quickness of this:
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$user->setPhone('111-1111');
$userRepo->save($user);
should be avoided, or not
 
@davidgraham I think only if setting the phone number to another one can result in an invalid state
 
*can't
 
i was talking about the should be avoided state
 
oh right, lol
 
@DavidGraham ok-ish, but the DTO seems excessive here. Just pass the phone number?
@DavidGraham the main problem is that you still think in "updates". If it's update, then fine, but try avoiding that stuff and make the actual interactions explicit.
$user->changeProfileDetails($username, $email, $contactAddress) for example
 
9:13 PM
bangs head and once again tries to write a recursive function
 
but what if I want to leave it open to a set of fields. Like I may just want to change email, not contact address.
 
So then you are updating all items that have dependant validity at the same time without having to pass around a mirror of the object state
 
`$user->changeProfileDetails($array)`
or
`$user->changeProfileDetails($dto)`
 
@DavidGraham if phone number is able to be atomicly defined you can create a changePhoneNumber($phoneNumber)
 
I just have these big forms with lots of inputs. And I can't convince myself that filling up a DTO and then dropping that into an entity method is any better than setting the entity (via setters) directly.
And sometimes I just want to update 1 field. But filling up a whole DTO for that is like you say excessive.
Are there any good examples of code where someone is gathering data from a form and populating an entity in DDD without using setters?
Or a example where someone wants to change a single field on an entity in DDD without using setters?
so @Ocramius I see what you are saying. I'm thinking still "CRUD-like". But there are needs from client where we just need a little feature that grabs a user and updates the phone only.
 
9:19 PM
Your other option would be to just create a new object given all of the inputs and storing it. Then you can test for contextual validity at construction
 
And another little feature that grabs a user and updates the fax number
So it seems excessive to keep using a DTO i built for a complete form, just so I don't write more methods or use setters.
 
which would basically be implemented as a setter with validity checks
 
Yeah, I use Value Objects whenever possible
and if properties need to be validated together, then ok, I have to pass them together in a method. But do I just use an array? Use an object (ie. anemic DTO)?
 
and if you have properties that's validity is coupled with another's then create a function that will allow you to update both at the same time so you never reach an invalid state
 
@Orangepill and @Ocramius you guys are saying that setters are OK? Assuming I know that setting them arbitrarily won't put my object into an invalid state?
 
9:23 PM
I would say that depends on the number of properties there is in that particular relationship
 
Setters really aren't ok
 
So rewrite this for me...
 
@DavidGraham I'm not the authority here
 
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$dto = new \Users\UpdateBasicDTO();
$dto->setPhone("111-1111");
$user->updateBasicInfo($dto);
$userRepo->save();
rewrite that @Ocramius
 
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$user->updateBasicInfo($phoneNumber, $address, ...);
$userRepo->save($user);
 
9:25 PM
But i don't have the address
Just a new phone number to give
 
is it ONLY the phone number that you are updating?
 
yeah, for now (who knows in the future though)
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$user->updateBasicInfo($phoneNumber, $address, ...);  // <-- imagine 20 fields here
$userRepo->save($user);
 
$user = $userRepo->findById($id);
$user->changePhoneNumberFromBasicInfoSubmission($phoneNumber);
$userRepo->save($user);
 
hmmm...seriously?
 
Yes, seriously
 
9:27 PM
you are that religious about setters?
ok, and you are a sharp developer. I'm taking heed to this
 
no, I'm not religious about setters, I simply say that setters don't express any interaction, and therefore have no purpose
The main pain point here is that business will always come up with some rule such as "oh, but you cannot change that particular state in this submission unless that other thing there is marked"
 
yeah they don't. But the DRY flag goes off in me when I see I'm setting up a DTO just to turn around and take property for property and set it on the entity.
 
having setters causes your logic to hit the same endpoint from a lot of different presentation layer endpoints
this sort of very specific interaction prevents that
 
That's a setter... but but with context
 
the DRY stuff is bullshit
 
9:29 PM
But what is to keep a developer from piggy-backing on methods that are more made for full forms?
yeah DRY doesn't seem to save on maintenance as much as people think
 
DRY works when building abstractions, and domain logic is not an abstraction, it's domain logic. If it's that complicated or repeated, then you should repeat yourself.
You basically can't simplify a problem that is that complicated in the real world of your customer
@DavidGraham they simply piggy-back and adapt tests. This will also highlight domain knowledge issues on the long run
 
But what is there to stop a developer from seeing a method like updateBasicProfile and just using it for phone here and fax there and xyz anywhere. That's no different than setters.
 
The difference is that the interaction is explicit, and you won't use the same method for two different interactions
I'm basically FORCING the developer to create a new method if another interaction like that one appears somewhere
 
$user->updateBasicInfo($phoneNumber, $address, ...); Can it be used for partial data updates?
Like just phone?
 
I would rather create a new method with just the partial data
 
9:32 PM
or should that be a different interaction?
 
That's a different interaction
 
because the partial data set may lead to different validation/invalidation rules
Oh, and this stuff is trivial to write and test, so I wouldn't worry too much
 
but when the client gives you different rules, you just go to that input/entry point and connect it to a new method you write for the entity. But until then, why not be DRY and use an existing interaction?
 
@DavidGraham because it's not the same interaction
 
So each interaction is a new method on your entity?
that's going to blow up fast, right?
 
9:34 PM
the basic flaw I just saw in your thoughts there is that you said "different rules" and thought "new form in frontend" instead of "new API in domain"
 
Lots of areas in your application need to act on the domain?
 
@Ocramius is the motivation for this is just to insulate the code against stupid business rules ?
 
No, the domain is encapsulated and the app communicates with it, it's not scattered in the app layer
@Orangepill yes, because coding the business rules explicitly in the domain will expose this duplication and also cause feedback back to business as you discover similarities or constraint violations that may happen
 
Right, but the app may call for a phone + address update. Or perhaps there is a little tool somewhere else that just does phone update. The rules are the same for now.
 
@DavidGraham just code a phone+address and then a different endpoint for something else
 
9:36 PM
@Ocramius I think I understand the priciple you are trying to impart here
 
You are saying that the client will change a rule in one place (a form) and now I need to hunt out the other interactions to put them on a different rule? I'm saying it's the opposite. I create a new method for the new rule/interaction the client just requested on a form.
 
@Orangepill a funny one we had in my current project (many many times) was varyCriminalOffence: we had it abstracted away (you passed a CriminalOffenceVariation to it). Then we realized that each variation had little subtle differences
 
@Ocramius so (phone, address) method and (phone) method. 2 methods on entity? Just to be clear? Even though for now they use same rules?
 
this happened every 2~3 weeks on a very stable domain (law-directed, no decisions done by our team)
@DavidGraham yes, if you reuse the same endpoint for "mass-updating" stuff, eventually you will just have a bloated API that you have to hack every time an edge case appears
instead, code proactively against edge cases
 
Ah.
When do you know you have too many interactions? Or is that not a realistic fear?
 
9:40 PM
You basically code for the specific use-case each time
@DavidGraham it is realistic, but if that's how business is, that's it
don't over-simplify it if that's how the business complexity is
You can also abstract away in private API eventually, but public API should be incredibly specific
 
@Ocramius I'm sure that makes things big but explicit
 
It makes things big and also very simple to maintain and refactor
plus you stop hunting down bugs due to leaking state transitions across unrelated interactions
 
Plus, you could always do the reverse later. I mean, later down the road if you had "phone" and "phone, address" you could see that in your entity and refactor them together if you wanted. But I'm worried that the entity becomes too large in memory with all these growing interactions/methods?
 
@DavidGraham meh, I rarely see memory of PHP processes ever being the actual problem
 
Ok right, better that code is usuable
and readable/manageable
 
9:42 PM
yar
 
yardy yar yar
 
They asked me exactly that at PHPDay btw
 
PHP day?
do you have a youtube link to that presentation?
 
"what if my User object has 50 methods?":

either:
- bounded context is too large
- the business is actually that complex
 
or something?
 
9:43 PM
lemme check if they uploaded anything
 
I think I saw some of your proxy stuff. You are the master of all things proxy. But if you have presentations on DDD in php, then I'd love to check those out.
The only stuff (PHP geared) I've found is from what's his name....
Matteus Verras or something....
That guy
brilliant guy
I'm headed to Laracon next week in Kentucky. I'll probably be asking people stuff there too. I'm a lone developer in my company and I was hired as a complete junior, so it's been tough getting advice.
 
dammit, they didn't upload anything
 
I'm in the middle of a complete refactor, so trying to get all the domain organized nicely
 
arghhh
 
9:47 PM
it's not doctrine-specific
or well, it was supposed to be, then became basically a "stop fucking around with ORM internals"
 
Is it okay that I avoided doctrine?
 
@ocramius would separating the interaction to it's own object and be a viable way to medigate a monolithic object like that?
 
@DavidGraham I'm the wrong person to ask that, because I'm biased.
 
@Orangepill no, the aggregate is the aggregate :)
 
9:48 PM
so maybe you try to create 2 entities out of 1?
 
You interact with the aggregate. If the aggregate is too complex, then you must refactor some of the ubiquitous language before doing that
 
Like users becomes user and userContact
 
@DavidGraham no, again, it's an aggregate root: you talk to the aggregate root, which may be a huge monster (and that's ok!)
It may be 2 objects internally, but the front facing API is one object
 
that makes sense
 
@Trowski I haven't but that sounds like an excellent plan! :)
@DavidGraham I'll see you at Laracon! :)
 
9:51 PM
hmm...@Ocramius you've convinced me to avoid setters at most all costs. But now I feel you gave me a new fear (method explosion in my entity)
@SammyK awesome!
 
@DavidGraham don't fear it, that's how it is
 
@SammyK you made some videos where developers talk one on one right?
Like I saw one with Taylor and Phil
good stuff
Shows their different philosophies
I'm somewhere in between both those philosophies
@Ocramius okie dokie, time to get some product out the door, shall we!
 
@DavidGraham That was part of the PHP Roundtable: phproundtable.com Lots of roundtable discussions with developers. :)
 
yeah! that's it
 
I'm off to dance practice - see you next week @DavidGraham! :)
 
9:54 PM
looking forward to it
 
Is it possible to select multiple rows by their ID field?
SELECT * FROM table1 WHERE id=1,2,3?
That doesn't seem to show the tables.
 
@Ocramius do you have any good PHP DDD talks/videos/slides etc. that you know of from people out there in the interwebs?
 
@DavidGraham get to dddinphp
 
@DemCodeLines try "IN()"
SELECT * FROM table1 WHERE id IN(1,2,3)
 
You may really want to EAT the red book of DDD
 
9:56 PM
Literally just saw this question
 
red book? I thought it was blue?
 
Implementing DDD ;-)
 
gotcha
 
but yeah, that mailing list is good to get feedback
 
@Ocramius last question... Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World?
 
9:57 PM
@Ocramius mhm… yeah. You have good points [which makes ORM code better], but ORMs still are E_MAGIC.
 
@DavidGraham interestingly, I don't like Mario Bros as much as I like Super Smash Bros Melee
 
@bwoebi nothing here required ORM in the discussion :-p
 
@bwoebi yes, and you probably missed that yesterday, but what my stance on ORMs is is that they are just complex (de-)serializers
 
But your infamously associated with the super mario gif now
 
and they are not OOP, and the fact that they fake constructors and use reflection is perfectly fine, IMO
@DavidGraham yes, that's been my avatar for over 16 years now
 
9:59 PM
@Ocramius with a storing logic. Yep. That's all.
 

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