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3:00 PM
@rlemon That is damn old
You old fuck :P
 
shhhh
 
@rlemon + forms interpreter :-P
 
Oh, it was Personal Home Page
 
Such a horrible name
 
3:00 PM
@BenjaminDiele no framework It doesn't take longer to not use a framework (unless you don't know how to write code without one). Just use composer and the packages that are suitable for whatever you are building
 
@HassanAlthaf It was not in 199x
 
you know what is a horrible name?
JavaScript
 
That as well
 
yes! lets ride the coattails of another language and forever confuse new users
 
Stupid stupid choice indeed
 
3:01 PM
Nah, it will bring some entertainment here.
 
@kelunik yihaaa !!! spot on , it was the ?> at the end of the script :) I love you , thanks
 
I learned a lot the last two days hanging around here
 
"ecmascript" just didn't have the same... je ne sais quoi
 
@Patrick A framework has its uses though. I don't want to spend a week or more just configuring stuff and installing libraries etc etc. Its nice to be able to use something that's been tested to work together.
 
3:03 PM
@BenjaminDiele Frameworks can be good if you are doing commercial work.
 
@PaulCrovella they committee doesn't want to play favorites. actionscript folk would get their panties in a bunch because we got the better name
 
posted on January 28, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by docxent */

 
@BenjaminDiele sure, also wordpress
 
But if you are doing private/open source projects, then frameworks should have no chance.
 
@HassanAlthaf Isn't that most work?
 
3:04 PM
What do you mean?
 
@RonniSkansing Sure, why not. They enable people to make something quickly.
Isn't most "work" work for commercial ends?
 
@rlemon what you mean, "we," Kemo Sabe?
 
@PaulCrovella JavaScript devs jQuery rockstar ninja's
 
I know that most of you guys work with commercial projects
But hobby programmers like me should not even look at them :D
And instead learn how to do stuff instead of using pre-coded scripts
 
'@BenjaminDiele I agree. But I would never recommend a friend nor stranger to use it.. (wp)
 
3:06 PM
It won't even take half a day, not even close.
But if you do code and dump work as say in an agency. go ahead. But if you need to maintain the code that you write... Then you can't afford those shortcuts, they become expensive very soon
 
Shit ... it's too wednesday...
> git commit -m "add stuff and shit"
 
@RonniSkansing I would use a module coded by a 1 year old rather than using WP/Joomla
 
@ThomasDavidPlat -S
 
-am
 
@RonniSkansing Me neither. But that's because we know something about programming etc etc. Programmers often forget that most people care little to nothing about the programming side. They just want to get stuff done.
 
3:08 PM
consumers =]
 
Yeah, those are the ones that pay our salary
 
No, they fired you and clicked around the wp controlpanel themself =p
 
@BenjaminDiele where do you work? In an agency?
 
@Patrick I'm not working for anything web related no
 
I never really understand why people are so frivolous with spending 40k on say... a website from some company rather than spending 5k on a consultant who can get that 40k down to 20k. Or contract people for 4 months to do the same job for even less.
 
3:10 PM
Web agencies in Denmark are very prune to Wp, ripping clients for being middlemen
but that is just business I guess...
 
"We know nothing about websites so we'll go to this agency who'll definitely give us a fair price for that WP site".
Not like they have some sort of money making agenda.
 
@RonniSkansing I think you'll find that in any business
 
@Fabor it's usually why people ask several companies...
 
@BenjaminDiele stop making me sad
=[
 
agency work is a race to the bottom
 
3:11 PM
@FlorianMargaine Yeah but most often those companies bloat their quotes too.
 
@Fabor I see this all the time. 9 times out of 10 it's because a company projects more confidence. And because with a company, you can have a contract that stipulates what should be delivered when and with some clausules
 
@Patrick 1. become freelancer. 2. Take job you do not understand. 3. Outsource
 
Yeah, confidence and a budget to win bids...
 
> "When reporters asked [Alan] Shepard what he thought about as he sat atop the Redstone rocket, waiting for liftoff, he had replied, 'The fact that every part of this ship was built by the lowest bidder.'"
 
@RonniSkansing I often wondered if in our profession we could get like 5 jobs and outsource them for 2/3's the salary.
 
3:12 PM
@Fabor yes... because having worked at them, the over-quote tends to be not-so-big, because clients actually want something much more expensive that they originally thought
 
@RonniSkansing I'm sorry. But it's a possibility for you to fix stuff like that :)
 
Professional interviewee.
 
@RonniSkansing 1. open agency 2. take job you do not understand 3. yell at your underpaid, overworked programmers because they don't get things done in time that you promised the client last minute
 
@FlorianMargaine true that. Still doesn't explain some 40-80k WP sites though :P
 
3:13 PM
it does...
trust me.
I've seen some website that could be something like 10-20k. It ended up being 80k.
just because of changes all the time...
 
@Fabor you can =] you jus t need to buildup a group of skilled freelancers from bangladesh
 
Aye. I know it happens, but that's more poor management/marketing than other things no?
 
if you knew from the beginning, it would've been 10-20k max.
nah it's also clients that don't know shit about what they want
 
@FlorianMargaine That's true in any software biz. I've spent a week developing custom stuff for a customer, just to hear them say a day later to skip it.
and now they're crying about the bill
 
@FlorianMargaine If they don't know then don't they simply get charged as the cost goesup?
 
3:15 PM
@Fabor yes. Hence "ended up being" :P
 
@FlorianMargaine That's what a good programmer offers. Programming is more than just writing code. It's about talking with your customer to know what they need, instead of hearing what they need.
 
There was a guy in here earliere with a hacked wp site..
He mentioned he did 10 sites a week (wp)
 
@BenjaminDiele often, clients know what they need only after something wrong's done.
 
@FlorianMargaine You can't win all fights though :D
 
@BenjaminDiele but yes, the majority, projects are not redone over the course of the project. But it's easily understandable to have some wp projects at 80k...
 
3:17 PM
Same customer wanted images for some text-related stuff. I said it was a bad idea, they wouldn't listen. Now they want most of it reverted.
I never understood who the organisations are that want a website, and want to pay more than 10k for it, for a simple CMS.
 
@BenjaminDiele nope. a good programmer works for a company where he doesn't have to talk to a client ;)
 
@Patrick That's a very jaded view though.
 
Advantage of wp. Quick startup time. Downside. Anything complex costs alot + maintainence
 
@BenjaminDiele why? If I wanted to talk to people all day, I'll go work at McDonalds
 
I am so happy that I do not have to talk to clients at my new job.. =]
 
3:18 PM
@Patrick So you don't feel happy when you know you've helped a client in a tremendous way?
 
@BenjaminDiele I don't have clients anymore. I am much, much more happy these days :)
 
haha :D
 
@BenjaminDiele Most of these organizations are risk-averse rather than cost-averse.
 
@PaulCrovella That'd explain much
 
Hi guys, I just wanted an option on how I should go about running queries in an app I am building. I need to compare the distance between one location and a list of locations. I am testing google distance matrix api but I am thinking there would quickly be a lot of queries building up as the list gets longer.
Whats the best way to do something like this
 
3:23 PM
@StephenWolfe do you have the coordinates? calculate it yourself
 
@Patrick I can get them
@Patrick I was going to try to return driving distance other that line of sight, but I guess both works
 
the provider suggested me to split process as solution for error i spoke before.
it is apache process. i assume it is timeout per one php script right? If this script calls second script at some point and second the first one again and juggling as this so forth, this count as process splitting?
 
@StephenWolfe before you write your own, check out derickrethans.nl/spatial-indexes-calculating-distance.html for the basics
 
3:46 PM
@animaacija What method are you using to call the script? An include won't fork the process, but if you have access to something like pcntl/pthreads/exec you can do that.
 
@JeremiahWinsley pcntl/pthreads/exec ??
 
@Tyrael so, do you think pecl_http might fail because of php-fig voters?
 
Morning, room 11.
 
@JeremiahWinsley no i have only access to cgi-bin directory(also something i'm not familiar with ... yet)
 
Morning Levi
 
3:53 PM
Hello bringer of return types
 
jeez
this damned project is still growing
as if nobody ever thought it even half-through
 
@PeeHaa you might say: the returner of return types has returned
 
@tereško what project ?
 
Some might say I'm a dictator.
 
some people call me the space cowboy
 
3:55 PM
or space cadet ?
 
@PaulCrovella Shut up Maurice.
 
and the damned codebase ATM is 27k+ lines of codes (that's excluding /vendors folder, which also has my code in it .. about 6k likes of it )
 
sudo rm -rf / + rage quit
 
@animaacija pcntl/pthreads are pecl extensions. You'll probably need to reduce the amount of data you're processing.
 
@JeremiahWinsley im not using any method to run the script, i just call it by sending http request(? dunno just opening the page in browser) that is a very long process.. By forking a process you meant splitting it right ?
@JeremiahWinsley :D pecl extentions .. ok ill google it
"The PHP Extension Community Library" just found out ... if nobody noticed i'm serious noob
 
4:01 PM
@tereško meh... I have a third of that in a single file...
 
@Patrick and did you write all of it ?
alone ?
 
@tereško lol no way... old legacy code :*(
 
@JeremiahWinsley How do i see which extensions are installed ?
 
@animaacija google php + that exact question...
 
final is fucking great. /cc @Ocramius
 
4:05 PM
is anybody from USA here ?
 
I live in the USA's hat.
 
Canada ?
 
Aye.
 
I'm from the USA.
 
4:08 PM
.. just wondering
 
my condolences
 
any one from China Japan Australia Mehiko?
 
Do you like polls?
7
 
@DanLugg you made me lol irl.
 
u mean polish ?
 
4:09 PM
^^ That made me lol irl... more of a snicker, but still.
 
Mehiko <-- heh :)
 
@DanLugg yes
 
'noon
 
afer'noon
 
MVC doesnt work in large projects with unrealistic timelines
 
4:21 PM
I just want to ask I have socket listener, Is it normal when my socket listener runs or active,the cpu usage reach to 52% or 53% ?
in my server
 
"The shutdown callbacks are executed as the part of the request, so it's possible to send output from them and access output buffers." I know english but this is chinesse for me. If i use register shutdows function will it run in new/another process
 
@jemz active doesn't mean anything, if you are polling using some kinda busy waiting loop, then yes, that's normal ...
@animaacija no, it runs in the same process, at the end of the request before the zend engine shuts down
@tereško all large projects have unrealistic timelines ...
 
umhh @JoeWatkins
 
@JoeWatkins, so 52% is still safe ?,what percentage that I could tell if too much cpu is use 80% ?,...I am afraid if I have 50 clients connected to my socket then it reach to 80% or above that causes my server to down.
 
@animaacija It says 'part of the request' so that's still the same process.
 
4:28 PM
@JoeWatkins with unrealistic I mean "expecting a project, which was 3 month in the technical-design phase to be finished 6 month later"
 
a processor is supposed to run perfectly at 100%
 
@JoeWatkins all projects have unrealistic timelines ...
 
s/timeline/deadline
but I think everyone understood anyway
 
@jemz if you're worried about this kind of stuff, make stress-load testing
 
core actually, for most measuring tools, if a linux process is reported to use 50%, that means it's using 50% of the cpu time available on all cores that the process has scheduled threads on, so if I have 32 cores, then I don't care if a process is reporting 99% or 100%, because it doesn't mean what it seems it means ...
 
4:29 PM
@DanLugg yes ffs!
 
@PeeHaa met a guy at PHPBNL15 that will probably take on the order by DASPRiD
 
@JoeWatkins,we use windows server.
 
I hate that, and won't talk about it like I know anything, because I absolutely don't ...
 
@jemz WAAAAAAAT
 
4:32 PM
@Ocramius Awesome. Will bug him on twitter
 
@PeeHaa is that from log?
 
nice
haha
 
@Ocramius, why ?
@FlorianMargaine,I don't know how to do the "stress-load testing"
 
@FlorianMargaine dunno
 
4:38 PM
Hello
 
Hello
 
I have been trying to replace smileys in a text but it is not working the way i want to . If i have 2 smileys, one using :D and another using ::D when i type ::D it returns : plus the smileys. I have read a lot of articles but still. So far this is my code
```
foreach ($smileys as $code => $valeur)
{

        if (strpos($message, $code) !== false)
		{

	$image = "<img src='ojm_chat/smileys/".$valeur." '> ";

             $message = str_ireplace($code, $image, $message);



        }




}
```
 
@JohnMax have you heard regex ?
if that is not helping then AI only will
 
@animaacija Can you help me with it because i tried doing $message = preg_replace("~\b$code\b~",$image,$message); but it did not work
 
ok i will
 
4:45 PM
Thanks in advance
 
preg_replace("~\b::D\b~",$image,$message); first substitution
preg_replace("/\b:D\b/",$image,$message); second
just twice
 
Ok but the fact is that my :D or ::D are in the variable $code which comes from my array so let me try preg_replace("~\b$code\b~",$image,$message); twice and get back to you
 
hmm .. maybe compile pattern first an then preg_replace($patt,$image,$message)
$pattern = '/\b'.$code.'\b/';
@JohnMax do you know how to fork processes in php? in return :)
 
I did that but it did not work . Even my :D did not send back the smiley. No i dont know how to fork procss in php
 
and why is Fatal error: Call to undefined function apc_store() !?! it's in the manual php.net
 
4:52 PM
@animaacija you don't have apc installed or enabled
most likely
 
@animaacija What should i do now ? Really i have been on this for days
 
well throw up a prototype of what yr doing to look at, there must be a simple mistake i think... notepad.cc
 
I think I've had milk last longer than some JavaScript frameworks.
4
 
lol
 
@FlorianMargaine :D
 
4:53 PM
@animaacija One minute
 
Aurelia looks awesome
 
we'll see how long it lasts :P
but yeah, it looks awesome
it also looks like what angular 2 would look like... only 2 years earlier
 
This is what im doing
$smileys = array(

':D' => 'smiley-lol.png',
'::D' => 'smiley-wink.png',
';)' => 'smiley-wink.png',
':o' => 'smiley-surprise.png',
':-o' => 'smiley-surprise.png',
'8-)' => 'smiley-cool.png',
'8)' => 'smiley-cool.png',
"^#(^" => 'it_wasn_t_me.gif'
);

/* SMILEYS END */


//On parcoure le tableau et si le code smileys existe on le change par le smiley

foreach ($smileys as $code => $valeur)
{

if (strpos($message, $code) !== false)
{


//On insert l'image
$image = "<img src='ojm_chat/smileys/".$valeur." '> ";
I just need it to replace the appropriate smiley even when i do :D or ::D
 
@JohnMax Flip the order of those two keys in the array.
 
@rdlowrey I need your professional optinion on the pecl http RFC
I don't feel like I'm qualified to make a call on this
 
4:59 PM
@JeremiahWinsley U mean i should have array(

'smiley.png' => ':)',
Instead of
 
But I'm afraid that we're doing to bundle some high-level (frameworkish-level) API that may not be optimal into PHP
 
array(

':)' => 'smiley.png',
?
 
'smiley.png' => [':)', ':-)', '=)']
 
No. Change key 0 to 1, and 1 to 0.
 
No wait, why are we doing it this way anyway?
 
5:00 PM
I.e. I could see the argument for bundling high-performance HTTP parsing functions, but I'm not sure we want to lock a particular HTTP library into core. So what's your stance on that ext?
 
@JeremiahWinsley so you mean foreach ($smileys as $valeur => $code) instead of foreach ($smileys as $code => $valeur) ?
 
posted on January 28, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by delta_function */

 
@DanLugg I did not get you well . Where am i supposed to place that code please ?
 
well i should work .. @JohnMax the closing brace missing on foreach loop thou
 
@animaacija
@animaacija I did close it in my code
 
5:04 PM
@JohnMax array('::D' => 'smiley-wink.png', ':D' => 'smiley-lol.png'
 
@JohnMax some characters like ^ need to be escaped in regex pattern
 
Yes those are what i have and when i do $message = str_ireplace($code, $image, $message); it displays the image when it is :D but when it is ::D it displays the image of : followed with the image of :D
 
Good morning
 
@JohnMax there is regex101.com where to try patterns
 
So my problem here is to make it display the image of ::D when i type ::D instead of the image of : followed up by the image of :D
 
5:07 PM
so put the "::D" above ":D" in your array... the order matters
 
@JohnMax the latter problem can be solved with regex only,
@kodeart it matters where on string characters are found
 
Ok
@kodeart even when i place the ::D above i got the same result
@animaacija when i went to the regex101.com and placed in the field preg_replace("/::D/i", 'Odilon', "You know Jesus :D ::D . So you have to do something"); it is writting error
 
@JohnMax That's because it's a regex interpreter, it's not a php interpreter.
 
Oh ok
 
@JohnMax here's one idea to start with stackoverflow.com/questions/7890784/…
and there are plenty on the net too :)
 
5:15 PM
@JohnMax you will not regret a fast lynda course on regex ;)
and in regex101 only pattern is needed and ... i think you got it
 
@kodeart Thanks, i have read that and many more on stackoverflow and still it replaces only the :D not the ::D
@animaacija Ok thanks i will check lynda course on regex
 
@JohnMax experiment a bit github.com/iamcal/php-emoji
 
user2620028
Hey guys, i am conditionally echoing html input hidden with a value set to a php variable into my code and sending it through a form by post to another php file. The conditionally echo'd post information is not there but the rest of the form is accessible. Any guesses as to what i am doing wrong?
 
user2620028
the link to defer all questions vaguely to huh?
 
5:29 PM
Don't miss this weeks Friday Beer Event :)
 
no
 
is there a better way to pass variables between scripts? without file_put_contents and cache them is not possible and GET parameter i believe will not take objects as arguments
Huge data needs to passed from script to script
 
user895378
morning
 
@hakre brothers, do not kill yours brain cells.
sharing them is better
 
user895378
@Fabor suggestions about?
 
user895378
5:34 PM
@Fabor just going to try to fix the proxy issue you experienced and to provide better error messages when things go wrong. The API isn't changing.
 
@animaacija how do you share brain cells if not by wasting them?
:D
 
@Feeds no, when you "think" you did that... the adware/malware was installed, you just didn't realize it
 
user895378
@NikiC I need to actually read the RFC first, but I'll get back to you :)
 
@hakre well it is the hardest part of the question - why ?
 
@rdlowrey yes, me too. I'm at a slight no, mainly because I don't really see why it should get in.
 
5:36 PM
cells can not be shared ... synapsis can!
... the connections , grids , patterns
 
@kodeart even that one i had downloaded. Thanks anyway
 
@rdlowrey That's the issue, there is no RFC.
 
user895378
My default position is "no" without having read the RFC yet for a couple of reasons: (1) I wish we wouldn't introduce libcurl as a hard dependency in core and (2) I would prefer to see only some of the functionality in core, not all of it -- there are some things I consider bloated.
 
user895378
@NikiC well then how is this a thing?
 
is it more wise on older systems to install a 32bit linux instead a 64bit one?
 
5:38 PM
@rdlowrey The RFC is basically "do we want to bundle pecl_http v2? here's a link to the docs"
 
user895378
This is definitely something that would need an RFC, right?
 
@rdlowrey he means… it's not really a rfc, it's just a vote with a few docs refs
 
user895378
Oh, okay. Well I'll develop my official personal opinion today.
 
@rdlowrey yes
 
Is there anyone here have a good knowledge in PHPExcel , i have inquiry ??
 
5:39 PM
The only real bit of info in the RFC is "pecl_http adds processing for json request bodies into $_POST" - and I find that very disconcerting. I hope that the security implications of this have been considered, e.g. that the implementation is not susceptible to hashdos
 
user895378
I know Mike has spent a lot of time and energy on this, but while there are some things in the extension I wish were in core, there are a lot of others that I don't think belong.
 
Generally I don't think this RFC has way too little detail to allow an informed decision.
 
user895378
@NikiC See, that's the kind of thing I don't think the programming language of php should be doing.
 
user895378
I want to see changes that make the language better as opposed to changes that treat php like a web framework first.
 
user895378
Let's find another real language that has a hard dependency on libcurl. A programming language.
 
5:42 PM
I'm also wondering how this relates to PSR-7. I know we're all not particular fans of the FIG, but it seems like that this might be relevant
@rdlowrey Does it add a hard dep on curl? The RFC doesn't say so
 
user895378
@NikiC It does.
 
user895378
Unless there's been significant change in the last couple of months.
 
at least the config.m4 doesn't seem to mandate it
 
user895378
It may be optional and the HTTP client is unavailable if it's not present. That's more likely.
 
user895378
But I also don't really think that's something that belongs in the core of the language.
 
5:44 PM
@NikiC while I don't think we should implement PSR standards just because they are standards, I also don't think we should actively do the opposite either (create our own new ones)
 
@rdlowrey probably
 
ok night
:D
 
user895378
But shouldn't core language things NOT be optional?
 
user895378
It's either in core or it isn't. Not maybe.
 
user895378
The other issue is that I don't love some of the http APIs, but these are probably more personal stylistic opinions that aren't as important.
 
5:46 PM
@rdlowrey well, http wouldn't be "core", right?
just a bundled ext
at least that's what I assumed
 
user895378
Oh, the RFC is only asking if it should be bundled?
 
@rdlowrey the line between bundled extension and core is non-existant for me. I think they are really one and the same, and the fact that we let people choose to build bundled extensions or not is a bit of a problem... but that's just me
 
user895378
For some reason I was thinking it was "let's build this into php not as an extension"
 
@rdlowrey everything apart from the engine is an extension in php.
well, apart from some in-between stuff like sapis and streams ^^
 
user895378
I don't know. I like Mike and I know he's worked hard on this for a long time, but I personally am going to vote "no." That said, I have a personal conflict of interest in that I've been working on and with similar but largely incompatible tools in userland for years.
 
5:49 PM
ext/standard is "kind-of" an extension, but not really
 
@ircmaxell yeah ^^
 
user895378
There's really no benefit to my server work from having it, so that basically tells me everything I need to know about how useful it is for my own purposes.
 
user895378
I might just abstain.
 
user895378
I'm not sure how many people are really clamoring for the ability to parse a raw cookie header with the default php distribution ...
 
I kind of like the "parser" idea...
since user-land implementations are easy and performant except for the parsing
 
user895378
5:51 PM
Parsers are the only thing I'd want to see bundled.
 
user895378
Those are the useful things.
 
user895378
Cookies, params, http messages ... all that stuff is really useful for me.
 
@rdlowrey That would be my inclination as well
 
@ircmaxell user land impls even aren't so slow for parsing. Main overhead is the memory copying.
 
user895378
It's the other things ... the Request and Response classes ... the http client ... that I wouldn't want to see bundled. Especially if the message classes are at odds with what the userland community is trying to do at the same time.
 
5:53 PM
@rdlowrey You should ask for that to be a separate voting option then.
 
user895378
The problem is that right now the message parsers are coupled to the message classes.
 
user895378
One returns the other.
 
user895378
I'd prefer to see the parsers be agnostic about the other abstractions in the library and return associative arrays.
 
user895378
That would make it possible to separate the really useful things (various http parsing tools) from the other bells and whistles that maybe shouldn't be accepted as "the official standard php implementations."
 

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