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11:03 AM
@PeeHaa How's the CMS coming? :)
 
@Gordon @gordon: then what is the use of reputation
 
I, too, crap using regex.
 
@AlulaErrorpone Are your results correct though?
 
@Magikaas They are, in fact, correct
 
@Prashant unlocking privileges
 
11:09 AM
@AlulaErrorpone You should teach the other guy then :o
 
This uses regex :D
Old but awesome
 
Haha, cool xD
 
@zerkms lol
 
11:32 AM
rfc for phpng in to master aye?
 
Hello, I need to create administration system for my own business .... it's ok ... but can you recomend me the (In your opinion) best PHP framework and tell me, why you think, that this is the best? Currently I am thinking about Laravel or Nette ... but IDK, I don't have as much experiences with PHP frameworks .... thank you
 
I think I'll just pretend to be happy, regardless of the outcome, and quietly mumble to myself in the dark: YAY PHP7!
 
@Gordon i meant say ..for future use
 
@Prashant When you reach the finish line, you get 0.03 USD for every reputation point.
 
@Prashant what future use?
 
11:34 AM
@Gordon: really
 
@Prashant: what really?
 
i will get 0.03 usd for every reputation point
 
No, I was kidding; it's 0.04 USD
 
Lol
@DanLugg Got him good there
nudge nudge
 
@pes502 The answer to the question "what framework would you use to create an administration system that has the following requirements: …" is not applicable to the question "what is your favorite framework"
 
11:40 AM
@Gordon : i asked what is use of reputation in future
 
Why does it need to have a future use, when it has a use now?
 
Who cares, they're magic internet points.
 
@Prashant ask on Meta
 
ok
 
@Gordon Are you loading your dupe-closing gun?
 
11:42 AM
means this is only for website connection
 
11:54 AM
@pes502 and what problem is that framework solving for you?
 
@tereško @Gordon I need administration system, which will be used as a e-shop management system (product, orders, customers management, employers - so roles, rights) ... and IDK, which framework can be the best for me
 
@pes502 , what problem are you solving with a framework?
because E_NOT_ENOUGH_FRAMEWORK is not a valid reason
 
@pes502 sounds like you just need a premade shopsystem
oxid, shopware, magento, … the list is endless
 
@Gordon nope :) I need custom system ...
 
why?
 
12:00 PM
"just because"
 
hehehehe "So now we've progressed to 1970's technology. Congratulations. We can do better." source
 
@Gordon coz I need track custom bindings and for this I need my own solution ... it's not typical e-shop system and I don't want to edit premade shopsystem ... I need solution, that can solve all my problems and will be write bespoke for me
 
@pes502 why? what so special about your system?
 
Can I also have plx?
 
@HamZa I would just hand in a resignation, because if the boss is computer-illiterate, while still making decisions about the development process, one should get away ASAP
 
12:03 PM
@pes502 Do you have any idea how much time/money that would cost?
 
and this one:
 
@Fabien Actually made some real progress, but now I have to work on some urgent project
 
@tereško hehe true
 
@Danack I will be the programmer of the system :/ so the price is not problem :D but the time ... :/
 
@pes502 Ok, so do you have any idea how much time/money that would cost?
 
12:04 PM
@PeeHaa Damn urgent work always hindering the real work
 
@Fabien Meh they pay the urgent fee so all is well
 
Money the counterbalance
 
@DaveRandom I'm finished writing tests for now. There are still some things not covered but I suspect they will be easier to cover when you've done your refactoring of the layered resolvers into chained resolvers. Also I believe the test that is currently failing is a legitimate problem rather than me writing the test wrong.
 
Is it possible to join this chat using the irc-protocol?
 
/goes back to trying to read autoconf files......
 
12:08 PM
@Gordon ummmm .... because except shop system function, I need communicate with my employers, create some tasks, calendar action, track some informations about my customers … it will be some like “small ERP system”
 
@pes502 ok, and existing shop system cannot do that? how many have you checked before coming to the conclusion that you need a custom one?
and if they really cannot do that: have you thought about getting an existing shop system and an existing CRM and just build a middleware to connect them instead of inventing everything from scratch?
 
@Gordon yea, I looked for best open-source shop system / open-source ERP system ... I looked for paid shop/ERM systems too, but it contains too much functions, what I don't need or it don't contain some functions and I would have to edit that systems too much ... so own sollution will be better for me (I think)
 
Any one help me to do this . my question is here. stackoverflow.com/questions/24883970/…
 
@Gordon and middleware solution between shop / ERP system is not the best choice for me
 
@pes502 well, then just pick whatever framework you think would solve most of your usecases.
 
12:17 PM
@Gordon yes, I looked to Symfony framework, but somebody tells me "check Nette, you must try it" ... and another said "only Laravel, it's the best" and I studied tens of PHP frameworks but I don't know, which can I pick as the best choice :/ but Nette - I like it quite a lot :P so this is the reason, why I asked here, what is the best framework for you (I mean - which framework you using most often and which you can recommend for me and why).
 
emm ... by the looks of it, that project you described, is way above your current skill level
 
@tereško why you think that? Because I am asking other users and trying to get much information about PHP frameworks?
 
no, because I looked at your question/answer history
 
@pes502 yes. It means you're a junior. It's not juniors who begin big web projects.
 
@pes502 Have you taked a look at prestashop? It has an API, I used it once to connect it to a phonegap app
 
@FlorianMargaine ye, maybe ... but when I will never try nothing, I will be junior the rest of my life ....
 
@pes502 it doesnt matter what the others say what they like best. the big question you need to solve is which framework can help you the most with your UseCases.
 
@FlorianMargaine You've got to try, then fail, then learn
2
You can't skip that ^
 
@Gordon I know, but I am junior (as Florian said) and I wonder what frameworks and why they use other uber-ultimate-skilled programmers (like Florian) .... of course you can create the system which I want in every framework. I don't know, which of these will be the best choice for me, coz I don't know all of the framework perfectly so I am trying to select best one and in this I will try to code my app ....
 
@Jimbo failing on a big project is not a requirement though
 
12:30 PM
@pes502 There is no 'best framework' for your project. The best tools are the tools that allow you to succeed in a way you feel productive.
 
@FlorianMargaine It's still a learning experience :-) it's not all negative
 
congratulations, @FlorianMargaine : you have been assigned to the "uber-ultimate-skilled programmers"
 
for the business? it's mostly negative
 
In the end, screw the business, it's about your learning
 
@tereško yay
@Jimbo hehe
 
12:32 PM
@Danack I think that's the correct behaviour (the failing test). That response says "the requested address is an alias of ...", it only provides the A records as a convenience. One might get that response and legitimately say "oh hey, that's a CNAME, I'll query that for AAAA records instead"
 
@pes502 that's the problem: you have to define what best means for you. If you have never worked with a framework before and are not particularly well versed in OOP and/or design patterns that suggesting a framework that has these things right might not be the best framework for you. Likewise, it's not the best framework for you when it's not helping with what you need to build.
 
Although that test case would never actually be hit in the normal execution of Addr. The server returned A records, which means it would have been asked for A records. Addr will never ask the server for an A and then ask the ResponseInterpretter for an AAAA
Although I agree it's a little confusing and probably bad encapsulation.
 
@DaveRandom Given up on seedstream then? :P
 
@Gordon I worked with PHP framework Nette (OOP / ORM) few months ago, but IDK, if I want use this again for this project ... It's good and simple to work with, but .... I want try another way (maybe)
 
@Jimbo I have even more to do than usual atm, it's basically a case of the person shouting the loudest, I will get back to it though
 
12:35 PM
@pes502 Try new things on your own time, if its commercial and important, do it a way you know you can succeed.
I've been here over a year, and even now I'd be hesitant to try doing a project from scratch in a new PHP framework if it's time sensitive or commercial.
 
@AlulaErrorpone It's MY business and MY project :) If it will crash, nobody will never carry the consequences, except me OFC
 
Oh OK
Thats different then
Go get Symfony2 ;)
 
@AlulaErrorpone you just threw him in the deep ocean :O
 
@HamZa Nah that would be telling him to use C++ and write his own web server :P
At most I just threw him in a lake.
 
ahahha
 
12:40 PM
@AlulaErrorpone some programmers from my work recommend me this framework (one of them said, that its maybe a little bit complex than other frameworks, but he never want to change this for another framew.) .... maybe I will try Symfony2 :) thanks for your recommend :P
 
@pes502 I prefer Silex, which is semi-lightweight based on Symfony 2.
 
I'm slacking off lately and didn't learn anything new. Mainly watching anime/movies and doing other non-it-stuff. I feel bad...
Any one had the same experience? Advice?
 
@AlulaErrorpone thank you, IDK this framework, I will check it
 
user895378
@Jack Thanks for addressing that bug, but I need to read back over the relevant specs. I vaguely remember something about wildcard matching on SAN names not being allowed. I think there may be a reason why that wasn't done. Also need to make sure that null-byte prefix attacks aren't possible. Will look over the spec and the patch in a few minutes.
 
user895378
morning all.
 
user895378
12:49 PM
/cc @bwoebi on that as well ^^
 
@HamZa finish a series, then try to make some opensource lib.
 
@rdlowrey well, apparently github uses wildcard san, so surely it must be something :)
 
user895378
@Jack The wildcard matching only matches a leading * right? Didn't you fix that bug?
 
you won't be able to do anything until you have reached the of you current binge-subject.
 
@rdlowrey hmm, leeeet me double check that
 
user895378
12:53 PM
Like, you it can't match github.com with *hub.com
 
@tereško I see
 
user895378
Because here's the relevant section from the SAN RFC regarding wildcard matching
 
thanks
 
user895378
> A "*" wildcard character MAY be used as the left-most name
component in the certificate. For example, *.example.com would
match a.example.com, foo.example.com, etc. but would not match
example.com.
 
BA
NA
NA
 
user895378
12:54 PM
So as long as the wildcard will only match the leftmost part of the domain name it's fine.
 
@rdlowrey ah, that .. i think it does that properly, just a sec
though, not sure whether the position of the asterisk is very restrictive
 
@HamZa now, lets hope you now in season 3 of a 10 season series
 
@tereško I was watching hunter x hunter. 2 episodes to go :P
 
Also SO is damn huge. I keep clicking links...
 
12:56 PM
I've been watching Game of Thrones. I managed to avoid it until now. :P
 
user895378
@AlulaErrorpone ZOMG
 
I just finished season 2.
 
user895378
S2 was the weakest IMO.
 
user895378
Gets (much) better from there
 
user895378
Actually, @Jack, I'm looking at the certificate presented by raw.github.com and I don't think it is valid for that domain name according to the SAN RFC.
 
1:00 PM
@rdlowrey hmm, afaict it doesn't oppose something like bla.*.com
 
Day 3 without @JoeWatkins.
 
@rdlowrey does the spec say a wildcard, if present must be the first char?
 
though he's actively tweeting
 
@Fabien something wrong with him?
 
Nah, he's just having a well deserved break I think.
 
user895378
1:01 PM
@Jack hold on, I'll keep looking. In the meantime, here are the SAN name entries for the github cert presented on raw.github.com:
 
user895378
DNS=github.com
DNS=www.github.com
 
Ah, ok
 
@rdlowrey oh, it's raw.githubusercontent.com i believe
 
user895378
oh, missed that. I'll look at that cert. Thanks :)
 
user895378
Ah, that makes more sense. The SAN entries for that cert are:
 
user895378
1:03 PM
DNS Name=www.github.com
DNS Name=*.github.com
DNS Name=*.github.io
DNS Name=*.githubusercontent.com
 
user895378
Interesting that it uses a different cert from the main github.
 
user895378
@Jack Okay, I'm satisfied that everything is as it should be and in accordance with all relevant specs. Thank you for fixing that so quickly :)
 
@DaveRandom In that case the tests are passing. \o/
 
I am stumbled that there is var in php... demo
 
@rdlowrey no prob, easy fix =D
 
user895378
1:09 PM
Love those one-liners.
 
@HamZa there's also $array{$key} de-reference syntax. still.
 
huh?
oh yeah .. thought that only worked for strings.
it's rather silly to have both working, though.
 
it's just.. ancient crap. like var declaration
 
@AlmaDo So $array{$key} is the same as $array[$key]?
 
surprise!
@HamZa like this
$array = [$foo='foo' => 'bar'];
echo $array{$foo};
 
1:12 PM
@HamZa it's used in PHP4 and CakePHP (up till current version)
 
or plain strings..
 
well, can't think of anything else that curly braces could do.
 
@tereško ehehehehe
@AlmaDo You're a time traveler! Using php5.4 and 4 syntax :O
 
@HamZa exactly. good to see you've noticed that
point is: how crappy is use that syntax when we're about 5.6 to release
 
1:15 PM
@AlmaDo I was reading some code on the internetz and saw "var". I once also saw it in my teacher's book. I thought it was a mistake and that the teacher confused it with javascript. Now everything is clear. That code I've read is from 2008. Lesson: never trust everything from the internetz
 
or from teachers
 
never trust anything
 
@MahipatKanzariya hay!
 
btw, @Jack, I've progressed till Aizen's defeat, but after that it's just come crappy episodes (I already saw 5). It's around ~60 episodes till 366 (last episode). So, I need hint: do you remember, are there any interesting things after Aizen's story line or they all be like shit of "Karakuraizer" ?
if it's only sh*t after Aizen's defeat, I'll stop watching
 
@AlmaDo Read the manga. The anime has a looooot of fillers :)
Also, I think almost everyone thinks that bleach should have stopped when Aizen was defeated
 
1:20 PM
so am I right, it will be only sh*t episodes?
 
It gets "crazier" after that... (I don't want to spoil :P)
 
for now I'm listening to anime's best OST (I have all 200+ tracks, so..)
 
@AlmaDo for me i've stopped watching when urahara boxed him in :)
 
@AlmaDo well sure there will be nice episodes. I just don't recommend watching them. Reading the manga is faster anyway to get up to date
@Jack You mean @Jack :P
 
ehh sure
lol
 
1:23 PM
@HamZa well, I don't like on-going. 1 time per week is too rare for me. I need to remind myself what was in past episode. Thus, I think I'll not read manga
it's not finished
 
@AlmaDo lol, the anime is also not finished
 
who cares?
 
plus the manga is more advanced than the anime
 
you may just "watch and forget"
I know. Usually I always prefer manga
 
lol, one of my answers received one down vote and then received two up votes :D
 
1:24 PM
@Jack Are you going for the SO t-shirt?
 
what? t-shirt? me first!
 
what's that?
 
I thought when you reach 100K you get an SO t-shirt?
 
oh, man..
 
well, there's one way to find out
 
1:29 PM
also, if Aizen's story line end is the last point to which it should be watched, then.. not a good ending. I mean, since he'll lose even ordinary shinigami power. sigh
 
I didn't realise they were for special numbers... so I pestered gordon for a while :D
No problem, go on Zazzle.com and make your own
 
@AlmaDo he will regain them
 
in manga? Or in those next "crappy" episodes?
 
by the time it finishes, ichigo would be grey already =/
 
@AlmaDo Can't remember. I think in the episodes he should also regain them in some manner
@Jack kekeke. The manga is in its last arc
 
1:31 PM
okay. It's only 60 episodes (besides, I've already wasted time on 300 episodes, lol). So I'll watch
one thins that anime has and manga hasn't: OST (:
 
Where did you get top 200 OST? I liked some bleach OST
 
I have all of them
 
I had some of the Bleach songs on DDR :D
 
243, to be precise..
 
random bug .. docs: meh .. random bug .. soap: yikes! click away now!
 
1:37 PM
?
 
sometimes i like to visit bugs.php.net/random .
 
Seriously, SCREW SOAP!
 
it's archeologist day today? var, curly brackets array de-reference, now soap. What's next?
 
What's going on?
 
@Jack first time I see feature "show random bug" in some tracker. Why am I not surprised that it's PHP bug tracker?
 
1:40 PM
@AlmaDo i think it's rather useful.
 
looks like functionality "show random gif picture" on well-known sites :p
 
that's how i sometimes get to fix bugs from 6 years ago, like this one.
oh, that's actually nine years ago ... and technically not a bug
 
@AlmaDo mysql_*?
 
user895378
@DaveRandom It's taken me a couple of days to work out usable architecture for the TLS broker stuff we were tossing around. I think I may end up doing something like a "non-blocking TCP tools" repo that has classes for connecting, encrypting and pooling sockets. The TLS stuff on its own seemed too trivial to warrant its own repo. We'll see, though. Working more on it today.
 
user895378
1:47 PM
Implementing full http proxying functionality in artax has forced me to refactor and split up some of these components that were doing too much on their own, so that's been the holdup.
 
bugs.php.net 414 Request-URI Too Large sigh
 
user895378
@AlmaDo What does your request line look like for that request?
 
eh?
 
user895378
I'm interested to know.
 
user895378
That's a security mechanism on the part of the server.
 
user895378
1:49 PM
You can't just accept arbitrarily large request lines as an http server because they have to be kept in memory to determine what resource is being requested. Otherwise it would be easy to exhaust the server's memory with only a few client connections.
 
yay, I've just broken that..
 
ehm
 
@rdlowrey "this message is too long" from SO's chat sigh
obviously :p
 
user895378
pastebin?
 
yep
 
user895378
1:51 PM
Usually 4k or 8k is the limit for request line + headers combined
 
user895378
Sometimes the request line size is dealt with individually and sometimes it's not
 
lol, pastebin think I'm a spammer and want me to enter captcha..
pastebin.com/s3rPB97w anyway, I did it
 
lol you selected all categories
 
user895378
What the hell kind of request is that? There's no need for all those empty parameter arrays.
 
three mouse clicks and - yeah
 
user895378
1:53 PM
Wow. Looks like a php coder coded the php.net bug search form.
 
user895378
#weakSauce
 
hehe
 
Hahaha
 
@rdlowrey don't try to find reason for that request. It was just test..
morale: stupid request may come in any time :p
 
user895378
This is true. You can't make anything idiot-proof because idiots are so ingenious.
6
 
1:54 PM
right, that was the point
 
"ingenious"
 
user895378
Users will find a way to break your app and when they do you have to have protections in place :)
 
stupid user is always harder problem than smart hacker
 
Feb 27 at 15:22, by rdlowrey
@JoeWatkins idiots gonna idiot
 
I feel like such a troll. That's good!
 
user895378
1:57 PM
Idiots gonna idiot. That's ... like ... Rule# 1 of the universe.
 
Where has Joe been? He's not in this room for a few days, no?
 
@JoeWatkins @JoeWatkins @JoeWatkins @JoeWatkins
 
@rdlowrey If you do happen to make something idiot-proof, the universe will invent a better idiot just to spite you
 
user895378
@ircmaxell It totally will
 

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