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9:02 PM
robots.txt didn't work...
 
9:20 PM
@ircmaxell seems pretty pointless to consider timing-safe hex2bin if mcrypt_encrypt/decrypt are as timing-unsafe as they could possibly be
 
@NikiC considering mcrypt isn't the only usage (also useful in hmac and hash contexts)
I don't think it's a "OMG YOU MUST DO THIS"
but I don't think it's as horrible as it's being made out on the list
 
also: ANTLR is so horrible. I should start appreciating bison more...
@ircmaxell I don't think it will hurt to do it, but I don't think it will help either.
 
IMHO, as long as it's the same time-complexity (O(n) in the case of bin2hex/hex2bin) and a very similar runtime, then why not...
 
You gotta be realistic about those things. If you're doing encryption in PHP then a cache-timing attack on hex2bin is like totally irrelevant.
 
?
I'm less worried about encryption leaks
than I am around things like session identifiers and things like that
also: I don't think this is a big deal (in that "OMG MUST DO IT", but can it hurt?)
 
9:26 PM
I think it's not a big deal to the point of introducing more risk simply by doing any kind of change
 
what risk? regression?
 
E.g. the original PR was submitted in a form that didn't even compile - the author just tried inserting some code (turned out it wasn't correct code)
 
I'm not saying accept his PR
nor am I saying accept arbitrary code
 
sure, sure
 
but if a 1) correct implementation that 2) scales O(same or better) and 3) performs similar, then there shouldn't be much reason not to...
 
9:28 PM
yeah
I'm not against doing the change
It's just a total waste of time
 
you don't see me writing a serious patch :-P
I was doing the POC because I was curious around the performance differences...
 
So, it looks like antlr doesn't have a sane way of figuring out the source interval making up a rule
 
10:22 PM
does anyone knows in what part of wampserver says the compiler version apache was compile with? please
 
@user2495207 phpinfo()?
 
no...
"the compiler version apache was compiled with"
i.e. gcc version when you ran git clone apache; cd apache; ./configure; make; make install
so... you can't know
 
saddly im using windows
 
same issue
you can't know
what's your problem exactly?
sounds like XY problem.
 
@FlorianMargaine ah I see misread
 
10:31 PM
@FlorianMargaine i just wanna know the compiler of php and apache in wampserver
 
you can't
why do you want to know that?
 
to upgrade the php correctly in order to configure symfony
 
@user2495207 What is it exactly you want to know, cause I am utterly confused
Do you want to know what php binary to download?
 
i want to upgrade php from 5.4.9 to 5.4.11
5.4.11+
 
That does not answer my question
 
10:42 PM
im reading this tutorial forum.wampserver.com/read.php?2,116940,117978#msg-117978 it says "On Apache and PHP you will see the acronyms VC6, VC9, VC10 or VC11..." my question is where?
 
19 mins ago, by PeeHaa
@user2495207 phpinfo()?
 
isn't that just for PHP?
 
yes
8 mins ago, by user2495207
i want to upgrade php from 5.4.9 to 5.4.11
 
@user2495207 Install apache 2.4
Install 64b windows vc11
profit
 
10:47 PM
by the look of things i need practice writing english :)
 
@NikiC if you've got a few, would you mind checking this for errors: gist.github.com/ircmaxell/0565a96371282840f461 I go into a bunch of detail on compilers and cache lines, and am not sure if I got it "right"
 
@ircmaxell The "Using % here" comment is probably from an older version of the code?
 
Yes
Will remove that
And do you think I need to better explain the assembly pieces?
 
11:07 PM
@ircmaxell I think that the assembly contains lots of unrelated instructions - is this an optimized build?
Also, the note about volatile is not correct, as far as I know. volatile only forces the compiler to emit separate fetches for each read, but it does not influence caching behavior.
 
Interesting...
And no
 
I'm tempted to make a language that enforces a coding style. It'd be C-like, but refuse to compile if you don't use the One True Brace Style and 4-space tabs.
 
@ircmaxell Why is the complexity of a short-circuiting compare O(log n)?
@AndreaFaulds by "4 space tabs" you mean using four spaces, correct?
 
@NikiC Yes, not tabs displayed as 4 columns. ^^
 
@AndreaFaulds I do approve of making tabs syntax errors in programming languages :)
7
 
11:15 PM
It wouldn't be like Python. Python has syntactically-significant whitespace. This is different: The language would have whitespace be genuinely insignificant like any C-like language, but the first stage in the compiler would moan about incorrect coding style anyway and refuse to compile, with insulting error messages.
 
@nikic: not sure. That's what I thought a linear search complexity was.
 
Hmm, how do you define "short-circuiting compare" in this context?
Oh man, the possibilities. It could be like having a built-in JSLint.
"COMPILE ERROR: Eval is evil, don't use it."
"COMPILE ERROR: Using non-asynchronous I/O is stupid."
 
@AndreaFaulds memcmp short-circuits (it returns on the first difference)
@NikiC it's O(n/2) average, not log n
 
OK:
1027
A: What does O(log n) mean exactly?

John Feminella I cannot understand how to identify a function with a log time. The most common attributes of logarithmic running-time function are that: the choice of the next element on which to perform some action is one of several possibilities, and only one will need to be chosen. or the elements...

 
@AndreaFaulds you could make a php fork with phpcs integrated in the compiler...
 
11:20 PM
@FlorianMargaine :D
 
@ircmaxell I don't think that's right either - failing at position n/2 is extremely unlikely (1/256^(n/2)) if we consider a random string that is compared to a fixed string
 
Then force opcache to be enabled, or the runs would be veeeeery slow
And you could call it "pedantichp"
Anyway... Good night
 
@NikiC depends on context, but yes
the problem is i don't think you can express that
 
@ircmaxell Apart from that only two notes: a) I wouldn't say that 8 bytes is the maximum register size - with simd it's more like 32 or 64 - and for things like memcmp() that might even be relevant. b) I'd be careful with the term "page" - wrt to memory that word usually refers to virtual memory pages (which are more like 4k in size)
 
@NikiC except whitespace programming lang :)
 
11:24 PM
@AndreaFaulds s/4-space// and @NikiC Then we'd need a preprocessor to convert tabs to spaces. That nobody wants.
 
@CSᵠ you can still use space and newline.
 
@user2495207 httpd -V | find "VC" and php -i | find "VC"
 
@bwoebi No, tab-preferring heathens would simply be unable to use the language
@bwoebi As we all know, people who prefer tabs are literally everything wrong with this world, so the community would be greatly improved by their complete exclusion ;p
 
@AndreaFaulds I usually don't use that word, but bullshit ;-)
 
lynch him, lynch him, lynch him
 
11:26 PM
@AndreaFaulds why are you always confusing tabs and spaces with everything you're saying?
@DaveRandom s/im/er/ … Andrea is female.
 
WE WILL PREVAIL!
 
Just checked 5.5 features page and noticed "Thank You for making empty() to support arbitrary expressions!" comment
why are people so excited about it?
 
@AndreaFaulds hitler had some similar ideas...
 
@NikiC I know simd changes things, but that affects comparison, not table lookup. Also, that's why I put in (note, this is a gross simplification, but it's for demonstration with what happens next)
 
^ there i said it, the rule holds true
 
11:27 PM
you might !$expr or just if ($expr) and have the same behaviour
 
@CSᵠ Well yes, people who prefer tabs are literally Hitler
8
 
instastar
 
Where are my insta-un-star powers?
 
@bwoebi lurk moar :D
 
11:28 PM
Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism. Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's Law originally referred, specifically, to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms and...
 
added a bigger note
@NikiC replaced "page" with "block" everywhere
 
It's all well and good me saying tabs are bad, but I have vim set to always use tabs when editing C... I use 4 spaces for all other languages, but tabs for C. Which is sort of appropriate, it reflects the age of the languages I write in. C is from uncivilised, tab-using times ;)
 
@NikiC good call:
15
Q: C volatile variables and Cache Memory

MicrokernelCache is controlled by cache hardware transparently to processor, so if we use volatile variables in C program, how is it guaranteed that my program reads data each time from the actual memory address specified but not cache. My understanding is that, Volatile keyword tells compiler that the ...

 
hi all
:)
i need some help
please
 
11:43 PM
no
 
Don't worry, we all do
 
sorry for my bad english
i have a website on afree web host
mywebsite.freehost.com
and i purchased the https feature
so, now i have mywebsite.ssl.freehost.com
is there a way to buy a second level domain
to obtain this: https ://mynewdomain.com ?
 
@ircmaxell I vote for every program written in php to be eventually constant time. So whatever you write and run - it always finishes in 10ms
@neoDev are you asking if it's possible to buy a domain name?
 
five minutes ago I bought a domain from 1and1
but now I am really sad because I can't find a way to do it...
 
11:50 PM
@ircmaxell Why are you calling bin2hex decoding function and hex2bin encoding? They're conversions from one format into another. I maybe agree when you talk about raw data to another format and the other direction, but not here.
 
so what is the question then?
 
if i buy another domain from another website, I can obtain it?
 
@neoDev what "obtain" means?
if you buy a domain - it's yours
 
1and1 offers only http redirection, or frame mask
and I don't want this
 
contact 1and1 support, this room is for php development questions
 
11:52 PM
i'm sorry please help
what kind of dns type I need?
i'm confused
 
@ircmaxell maybe add an optional 'crypto' param to those functions or create their crypto_* equivalent in constant-time.
 

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