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6:00 PM
don't spend too much time worrying about can, before you worry about should
 
and actually other buddies wrote this peace of crap and it's about 11 months that i'm tuning this shit.
 
@ircmaxell T'was more of a joke; I'd just as soon if (!$callback()) return false;
 
:-P
 
I wonder though, op-code-wise...
How much more inefficient is it?
 
@a.saleem i thought my problem is the way that i give projectDoneCount but i didnt know how to write better
 
6:02 PM
in recki they would approximately compile to the same (well, will once I implement jumpnz as well as jumpz)
 
@ircmaxell Really? That's interesting; which version is closer to the compiled code?
 
neither
 
@Mahan understood
 
I'd assume the continue is "closer" because you're label jumping otherwise, no?
 
@DanLugg I'm label jumping in any case
 
6:05 PM
@a.saleem :) no, actually it's a freelancing website, like Odesk or freelancer.com
 
@ircmaxell Right, I'm just asserting that a continue is a closer approximation of the resulting goto-heavy procedure, than boolean negation.
 
but this part represents the list of users which have specific skills
 
I don't know... let me try
 
Closer like we're closer to the sun than the moon (some of the time) ;-)
 
@mahan understood
 
6:06 PM
@a.saleem actually this page is for crawlers :)
 
Also, @ircmaxell, how do you pronounce Recki -- "wrecky"?
 
@a.saleem do you have any idea how can i write my query to get the projectsDoneCount with better performance??? i guess my problem is this part
 
Someone told me a pronucication tha tI liked: "Wreck-it"
but yes, "Wrecky" is how I normally say it
 
@mahan Ok. DB you have created is correct means logically and based on normalization just to ask you?
 
@ircmaxell CT = compiler/transformer?
Ne'er mind, just read your blog page.
 
6:08 PM
but not quite sure. @a.saleem
 
/**
 * @param string $a
 * @return string
 */
function test($a) {
    for ($i = 0; $i < 10000; $i++) {
        if ($a) {
            return 0;
        }
    }
    return $a;
}

/**
 * @param string $a
 * @return string
 */
function test2($a) {
    for ($i = 0; $i < 10000; $i++) {
        if ($a) {
            continue;
        }
        return 1;
    }
    return $a;
}
 
@a.saleem sure what do you need to know about it???
 
Okie doke.
 
@Mahan Hmm cause need to understand the whole DB part or means atleast this Part so, then only i can understand else its tough to find an answer? Fact..
 
function test($var1) {
    $var6 = 0;
label_1:
    $var7 = $var6 < 10000;
    $var8 = !$var7;
    if (!$var8) { goto label_2; }
label_3:
    return $var1;
label_2:
    if (!$var1) { goto label_4; }
    return 0;
label_4:
label_5:
    $var6 = $var6 + 1;
    goto label_1;
}
 
6:10 PM
@mahan cause may be you may right might be myself wrong..
 
function test2($var1) {
    $var6 = 0;
label_1:
    $var7 = $var6 < 10000;
    $var8 = !$var7;
    if (!$var8) { goto label_2; }
label_3:
    return $var1;
label_2:
    if (!$var1) { goto label_4; }
label_5:
    $var6 = $var6 + 1;
    goto label_1;
label_4:
    return 1;
}
 
@mahan Cause you are handling the project...
 
ok @a.saleem :)
@saleem do you have any facebook account???
 
@Mahan is there anything i spell wrong onyou..
sorry to ask
 
no problem bro ;)
 
6:12 PM
@mahan Yes i do but preferably my gmail account..
 
@ircmaxell Curious, why is it generating label_3 when nothing jumps to it?
 
@DanLugg it's the break target
 
i just not comfortable to chat here
 
it costs nothing to generate, so I don't bother optimizing it out
 
i'll be happy if i have you as a friend in my facebook account
 
6:13 PM
@rdlowrey I will wait for your postings....but it's still weird that what it's doing was working in beta but not in versions after that.
 
@ircmaxell Oh, I figured; just didn't know where it came in.
 
@a.saleem my email is: eng.mahan.hazrati@gmail.com
 
@mahan Fine.. my mail id - saleem.mcstn@gmail.com
 
yeah, for every loop I generate a separate break and continue target, and keep track of them in a stack. That way I can compile them down separately (and handle break 2 and things like that)...
 
@a.saleem i would be happy if i could be in touch with you. ;)
 
6:15 PM
@Mahan No Problem.. Are you working for a company or a Freelancer?
 
currently i'm senior php developer and project manager of this website but a freelancer in deep of my heart :))
 
@mahan Sounds better..
 
:)
hey pal sent you my info. i should go now . it's 10 pm here and i should prepare for bed and before this i should fix some bugs which came up today . hope to be in touch latter ;)
 
@Mahan Alright.. good Night .. keep in touch..
 
tnx and bye bye
 
6:26 PM
@Mahan bye
 
user895378
@Danack Well I now know why it was working before and not now ... but anyway, I'll update you once I push usable things
 
k.
 
@JoeWatkins eih
 
got opinion ?
 
6:29 PM
I see both sides
I think the whole situtation needs a whole lot of de-escalating
 
hmmm, what to call a function that merges PHP arrays, but doesn't consider keys at all? array_clobber?
 
especially since David said "please don't be passive aggressive", and then proceeded to be passive aggressive.
 
array_combine is already taken :/
 
array_you_dont_need_another_array_function
 
I really do
Because array_merge is slow as ballz
 
6:31 PM
@ircmaxell feel free to help, I got nothing, happy to walk away ...
 
^^ Then get on it Stas ;-)
 
Which doesn't even make sense because I have no idea how slow ballz are, but it's Monday :S
 
@JoeWatkins I think calming down and playing the high road is the better approach
take a deep breath. Don't argue, don't reply to ever point. Summarize your points, and reply in one message.
Be open and honest. Ignore the hostility
others will see it
 
@JoeWatkins suggest we write the mail together
 
To be fair, Derick has been incredibly passive aggressive.
It's sickening.
 
6:35 PM
I'm perfectly calm, I don't want to be a target for Derick's vitriol , I don't want to develop phpdbg using the internals process ... everyone seems to want that, so probably best that I just walk away ... this isn't a fight worth fighting, I never set out to write a remote debugger, didn't want it and still don't ...
 
@LeviMorrison passive? he's been openly aggressive in that thread
 
I sent him a message off-list btw calling him out on purposefully slinging mud.
@ircmaxell He has been both.
The whole thread is purposefully slinging mud while trying to blame phpdbg, and Derick the victim.
And he has no intention of resolving anything.
 
Hey, guys, any idea what should I setup to make this script work on my server: php.net/manual/en/function.curl-multi-exec.php ?
 
@SpeedCoder What error are you receiving?
 
the page never loads
 
6:37 PM
@JoeWatkins :-(
 
@SpeedCoder do you have any debug/dump info?
 
A bit in the style "we pushed it now, also to get opinions and feedback on it. but we needed to first have something we can work on and only then we really can work on it. That's why this big push. It's nothing one couldn't easily remove in an one-hour's work from the code. Now, first let's work together, improve it and then we can later decide whether it should remain in php-src." @JoeWatkins
@SpeedCoder what script? example #1?
 
No, but the issue I am trying to solve is to implement multi threading.
yes
 
@LeviMorrison "And he has no intention of resolving anything." His only aim seems to be limit what phpdbg can do.
 
the matters of fact are, that we didn't agree to this, we haven't made any questionable decisions, and nobody actually cared until he started shouting about it ... by dericks own admission, dbgp is not up to the job, if anyone thinks I can work with him to extend it, they are fucking mental, I'm not working with him, ever ... on anything ... for any reason ...
 
6:38 PM
my server seems unable to open a 2nd thread
 
we got asked to give it better remote ability, none of us actually wanted that, we didn't care about it at all, the ui thing was an after thought that took an hour ...
 
@SpeedCoder then you're using the wrong tool. Search for pthreads, if you like threads.
 
I tried this on 2 servers: XAMPP on windows 7 x64, and Cent OS 6.5
Thanks, maybe I will open a question about this
 
@ircmaxell ok, thanks I will check this out
 
6:40 PM
@LeviMorrison did he reply? ... ok.
 
No, he did not reply.
 
@bwoebi you are welcome to engage internals, that's exactly what I didn't want, I've no interest in that at all, I'm out ...
 
@JoeWatkins I don't want to engage internals, but a few particular people which are interested on it.
I think a protocol should be peer-reviewed.
 
you don't have any choice
 
And especially just for this protocol.
Which you really never were involved with too. I did that whole thing.
 
6:42 PM
yeah probably should be, still not interested ...
 
I treat that thing now separately from everything else in phpdbg.
@JoeWatkins I'd like you to work on phpdbg, that means, everything, except the protocol.
Phpdbg doesn't define itself by the protocol, it's a lot more.
 
not up for it, there is no fun in the internals process, that is the only way you're going to be able to move it forward ... it was fun to write because we were doing our own thing, since we're not going to be able to do that, there's literally nothing inviting me to carry on ...
 
I want you to work with me on the ecosystem phpdbg, not on the subsystem protocol.
 
@JoeWatkins to be fair, I think that's being a bit overly dramatic. For most things, it's pretty easy. It's only when something becomes controvercial, or someone like Derick or Zeev gets involved, that thing becomes problematic...
 
Also @JoeWatkins you're now trying to stay away from something where you don't have to take any burden. The protocol thing I'll manage; and the ecosystem of phpdbg, we two run.
And I promise you, we won't have blocking RFCs there. For our normal things nobody is and will be complaining. I'm sure.
 
6:51 PM
Here is my question more organized: stackoverflow.com/questions/26594719
 
@ircmaxell I don't really think so, I don't want to deal with this at all ...
you underestimate, quite severely, just how uncomfortable I had to be to leave that conference, I won't feel that uncomfortable at home ...
 
we've all seen some things go right through without issue
most of the ones that get caught up in process are for a reason (good or bad, it's non-trivial bs)
 
@JoeWatkins let's move on to better things… like docs :-)
 
the derick thing aside, which is enough to make me want to walk away on it's own ...
we have probably spent less than 100 hours between us writing phpdbg, not including bobs recent changes ... to burden this software with the internals process at this stage is an indefensible decision, we will not be able to be creative, we will not be able to move the thing forward ...
it's a process incompatible with such new software, I cannot move forward like that ...
 
@JoeWatkins There always are people on earth you can't stand.
@JoeWatkins less than 100? You're dramatically underexaggerating.
 
6:57 PM
when we were asked to rfc to merge it was 5 days old ...
 
I don't want to know how many hours I needed for watchpoints.
 
oh yeah and not including that ... because i couldn't guess :)
even so it's extremely young software
the reasons php-src is developed like it is make sense for php-src, they do not make sense for something that has existed for 5 minutes
 
@JoeWatkins fully agree. That's why I don't want internals process. All what I can bid internals is giving them a possibility to step in and review what we do. But not in form of a RFC.
 
you do not have a choice
 
They should have a chance to review just in time.
 
6:59 PM
I tried to suggest that ...
 
think of it this way: for minor things, just push
for major things, like entire new big features, protocols, etc, do an RFC
 
@JoeWatkins I have. And when it really doesn't work, I'm out too.
@ircmaxell no, a RFC is too much.
 
for a remote debugger protocol, I don't think so
 
what were we meant to do ?
there was no suitable protocol in existence, it was not have it, or make one up ...
 
user895378
yesterday, by rdlowrey
@JoeWatkins phpdbg should just be its own separate thing from php. It can be perfectly awesome on its own ... then you don't have to deal with Derrick's whiny BS.
 
7:00 PM
not a different decision to the one derick took when he invented dbgp
 
user895378
I still kind of think phpdbg should be its own separate product.
 
@rdlowrey with the issue that it never will be popular maybe?
 
user895378
I get that there are advantages to being bundled with PHP.
 
so do I, that is what I wanted when I asked to merge that 2 line patch ...
 
@JoeWatkins I'm not saying what was done was wrong (making a new protocol), but a good RFC would include that justification, and therefore be unarguable. Many people are arguing now because they don't understand what happened leading to the decision
 
7:02 PM
@ircmaxell I don't want something to vote on. I hate the phpng vote. It was useless. And just used by the ones who want to fuck the world up to express it by voting no.
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins agree. Which may be an arugment for why phpdbg as a relatively immature thing shouldn't be bundled with php-src (yet).
 
bob told everyone straight away that this was the case, it was more or less ignored, by everyone
 
user895378
The php distribution is for stable(ish) things. phpdbg kind of needs time to mature IMO.
 
@JoeWatkins hence why you show why, not just say why
 
I think I need to write some blog post about it. And post it on internals.
 
7:03 PM
@bwoebi I understand that, however don't use it as an example. There are other examples of things quietly going through
 
user895378
/me resumes coding after depositing $0.02 into the First National Bank of Room 11
 
@ircmaxell I know that and I'm even aware of them. I regularly review the lastet commits ;-)
 
Yup :-)
 
@rdlowrey still debugging Artax?
 
user895378
@bwoebi yup
 
7:04 PM
@rdlowrey with phpdbg? :-P
 
@ircmaxell Have you used the programming language Julia at all? I think I've asked before but forgot.
 
@LeviMorrison never even heard of it
 
user895378
@bwoebi nope :)
 
@ircmaxell Oh. Well it exists ^^ Happy Monday!
 
user895378
@bwoebi I know what the problems are (yes, plural). I'm just working out how best to address them. Not really debugging anymore.
 
7:05 PM
@LeviMorrison I've used it, but only very little
Basically my recent usage of Julia amounted to writing code to export some data computed in Julia into Matlab so I could work on it further ^^
 
I've used it before to solve some differential equations, just to try it out. But that was pretty long ago
 
Julia is really impressive at a glance. I think we're going to write some Bioinformatics code with it to see how it does.
We'd pick C++ if I thought the Biology people had any hope of modifying it at all, but I don't.
 
@JoeWatkins for now, let it calm down… Let's please write some great phpdbg docs curried with awesomesauce :-)
 
Have you guys ever ran across a tool that measures the 'hotness' of struct members in C code?
/cc @ircmaxell @NikiC @bwoebi @JoeWatkins
 
7:13 PM
hotness meaning what?
 
How often they are accessed, especially written to.
 
how often they are accessed?
 
nope
 
no idea
 
Arranging struct members according to hotness often results in measurable speedup.
 
7:14 PM
@JoeWatkins ready for docs? :-)
 
nope
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison lol I don't know why but this cracks me up. Those dummies over in Biology ... always the weak link in the chain xD
 
@LeviMorrison Why that? because it doesn't have to calculate an offset if we access the first member?
 
@bwoebi To some degree it is that, and other times it's because of the way caches work.
 
@LeviMorrison you mean that they like to store in blocks and then it's better when the often accessed items are together?
 
7:17 PM
Something like that, yeah. I don't know how to explain it well but I've read about it in papers, heard it mentioned in talks and in one case saw it myself.
 
@bwoebi that would only make a difference if the first member was the only hot one
 
@LeviMorrison Intel's Vtune may be able to do that - it's been a 'while' since I used it last.
 
I happen to have a license ^^
 
I've heard of people optimizing code for caching ... seems barking mad to me ... but guess you work in HPC, so probably not for you ...
 
Do you have enough LSD to understand the diagrams it makes though?
 
7:19 PM
You can get crazy changes in performance in HPC when you screw up or improve caching.
 
You can get crazy changes in performance everywhere this way ^^
 
Which is why I want to measure php-src struct hotness.
 
@LeviMorrison I think Dmitry surely already did that… but who knows…
 
didn't ng make some kinda changes in this direction ?
 
PHPNG removed one layer of indirection in HashTables, right?
 
7:21 PM
yes
 
what kind of specification is the crappiest machine, and also the best, you work on in your field @LeviMorrison ?
 
Eh, there are a few oddball machines lying around that are really nothing impressive.
I'll exclude those.
 
@JoeWatkins (hint for the crappiest: the computer he's coding on)
 
@LeviMorrison I'm asuming this gives a small guide on how to do the hotspot analysis - too tired to read it: Optimize Data Structures and Memory Access Patterns to Improve Data Locality
 
One of our clusters uses two Hex-core Westmere processors at 2.67GHz, 24G of memory at 1066MHz.
That's the oldest we have.
 
7:24 PM
8 physical cores ?
 
It has two sockets, 6 processors per socket.
Hyperthreading is not enabled.
We are going through the process of buying its replacement right now.
I suspect we'll buy something along the lines of two socket, 10 core processors of the Ivy Bridge line, with 64G of RAM with some machines with 128G of RAM.
Somewhere in the 2.4GHz ballpark for CPU frequency.
We are not buying Haswell, most likely.
@rdlowrey They are what we call "anti-HPC". They use one processor with unusually large memory needs that run for unusually long periods of time.
I'd like to rewrite some of the algorithms to be able to distribute the memory across multiple machines, even if it takes a performance hit.
 
good mornings
 
Buying machines with 1TB of memory is very, very expensive.
We'd rather have 4 machines at 512G each because more people can use them effectively.
 
I want to do something odd...
change `<mydomain>` to `<mydomain>/index.php>` without .htaccess
 
1TB = 1000 times the hard drive size of my first PC.....
 
7:30 PM
@iroegbu Go go gadget redirect
 
processor       : 31
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 45
model name      : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 0 @ 2.70GHz
stepping        : 7
cpu MHz         : 2699.991
cache size      : 20480 KB
physical id     : 1
siblings        : 16
core id         : 7
cpu cores       : 8
apicid          : 47
initial apicid  : 47
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 13
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdts
got excited for a minute there ... less impressive than it sounds ... by quite a lot ...
 
Looks like a two socket, 8 core system with HyperThreading enabled.
Looks like probably Sandy Bridge processors.
 
I can't remember where I was going with the question ...
yeah, not bad tho ...
330gigs of ram reported too ...
 
What an odd amount of RAM.
I thought basically everyone used powers of two these days.
 
dunno if some might be swap ...
from /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:       330673916 kB
MemFree:         3218180 kB
Buffers:        27618988 kB
Cached:         185323196 kB
SwapCached:         6688 kB
Active:         145119896 kB
and so on ...
is something using 300 gigs of ram ...
seems unlikely ...
I probably shouldn't fuck about on this machine anyway ...
 
7:39 PM
 
In scientific computing 300Gb of ram is not that unusual.
(Curtesy of Bioinformatics, in part)
 
@ircmaxell that's what it is 200gig cached and free
every other machine I ever logged into is pretty crappy ... this one not bad at all ...
 
:-)
 
another has two (virtual) amd cores ... probably not much point in optimizing for that ... but I can quite believe you'd see massive gains with 20mb of cache ...
I guess you have more than that even ...
 
only if you can use that cache
because it's L3, and there's still a fair bit of latency to it
 
7:44 PM
@LeviMorrison I know one of those words ....
I'm going to slope away from the computer now, I hope tomorrow is better ... today was shit ...
sorry for moaning ...
 
take it easy
 
It is Monday, after all...
 
@JoeWatkins I'll have tomorrow a lot of time (after ±10 a.m. or so), hopefully you're then in a better mood.
 
8:03 PM
Every time I execute my script from browser I get same PID via getmyid(). Is it possible to change this?
 
Why would you want to do that?
 
I want each PHP script to launch in a new thread.
 
Threads have nothing to do with PID.
 
@SpeedCoder again, what are you trying to do
 
Simple: php must send stuff to c++ via tcp
c++ is ok
but php can't handle more than 1 user connecting to c++ at the same time
 
8:06 PM
that's not true
 
If I use exec then it works
but if I simply open many tabs it doesn't
 
you've described your problem, but not why
 
After trying to find a solution for 2 days... seems harder than expected
why what?
 
A solution for what, exactly? Multiplexing TCP sockets?
 
also, sounds like a session lock
but either way, you're describing what you tried, but not what you're actually doing. Did you see the X-Y problem link I pasted to you?
 
8:08 PM
I have a c++ tcp server and I want to have php communicate with the server, I don't know how I can explain it better.
@ircmaxell thanks, yes I saw that
 
I'm not going to pull teeth. If you don't want to explain what you're doing, you're the one who's going to not get reasonable answers. No skin off my back. But I tried...
 
okay, I will try my best
I have a website
I also have a c++ app running 24/7
when a user visits a page, he/she needs data stored in the c++ app.
so, I use the PHP to get the information from the c++ via TCP.
The problem is, if 2 users at the same time ask the data from the c++, the requests are processed one after another.
hahaha, maybe I am not the best
 
So your problem is you don't know how to multiplex TCP sockets?
 
@SpeedCoder so, from what you've described, no, they aren't. From what you've described, you're hitting a session lock because you're making two requests from the same user (session)
try doing two requests from different browsers (or one in incogneto mode)
 
I'm confused. Is the TCP socket being used per request or multiple sockets in the same request?
Are you even using session_start()?
 
8:15 PM
@Sherif tried this, it didn't work
 
Huh?
 
@ircmaxell this didn't worked, BUT after I tried this from the virtual machine it worked.
so, all in all
 
/me sighs
1 message moved to Orphan GIFs
 
seems like everything worked ok from the start, I wasted 2 days for no real reason, simply because I didn't tried this from another PC
:/
but still, I don't get it
why it works from 2 pcs and it doesn't from the same pc?
It must be the session lock you are talking about? Or it is something else?
 
10 mins ago, by ircmaxell
also, sounds like a session lock
 
8:18 PM
I have no idea why there's a room for GIFs, but cool :)
 
First time I don't understand how the problem was solved...
to be honest, I am not sure I understand what I am doing exactly
@ircmaxell anyway, you helped me a ton, thanks a lot!
 
@SpeedCoder I'm inclined to agree with you.
 
@SpeedCoder maybe you need to slow down a bit :P
 
@HamZa haha, maybe I am not good enough
 
@SpeedCoder You will if you practice and work on it :D
 
8:22 PM
@HamZa thanks :D
 
crap, what was the other blog post I wanted to write
 
Silicon Alley?
No wait, that was me :D
 
:-P
 
user895378
> Something went wrong: DNS resolution failed: api.github.com
 
user895378
lol ^
 
user895378
8:30 PM
I'm thinking that's probably a bug in my code.
 
Neh. Probably just another DMCA notice now against the entire github domain
 
@rdlowrey probably about 50:50.
 
user895378
@Danack actually i think it's some sort of issue in the dns lib as that value should already be cached.
 
user895378
In any case, debugging this issue has been invaluable ... I've been able to find and address multiple small edge-case issues that can really only manifest under heavy load.
 
user895378
You know what they say ... tests are overrated when you have users ;)
 
8:45 PM
ahhh, Google World Problems, a dog just came in to say hi :-)
 
@ircmaxell haha :P My dog is making his "goodbye" rounds right now
Getting all the petting in that he can before we head out
 
I'm in an office tho :-P
 
So am I :P
Granted, I'm sure the office you're in is much, much bigger than ours
 

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