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12:02 PM
@PeeHaa wiped
 
Room 11; it's really wipes the OPs question
 
hi all @PeeHaa heyy i figured out what to do , im not sure if u remeber
 
Were you the clean urls guy?
 
@PeeHaa haha yes
does anyone know when creating a search engine for website , should , is it better to use keywords for search or is it better to search descriptions or titles?
 
when creating search, you should not use SQL
 
12:06 PM
@tereško what do you mean exactly? i have a keyword table in my db and i wana use that for searching or could i use title
 
@LukeSmith Why not both. Also yes you should use something like solr instead
 
@tereško @PeeHaa i have never seen this before , but may i ask why using mysql is a bad idea?
 
@JoeWatkins here?
 
am, but still working, what's up ?
 
12:12 PM
already checked if it's fixed?
 
ElasticSearch is fairly easy to use and is based on lucene.
 
@LukeSmith using SQL for search is bad idea (no matter if Oracle, Postgre or MariaDB), because it's not meant for it ... also, MySQL is what you could call the "lowest common denominator", because it sucks, but everyone uses it, because everyone else uses it
 
@tereško oh i did not know haha this is what they teach as at school
 
@tereško Have you ever worked with sphinx? I was looking at it the other day, looks interesting but I just have a use case for it where I can actually play with it atm, all the stuff I have access to that I could work with currently use solr and I'm not about to try and fix something that isn't (that) broken
 
@DaveRandom only solr. I left one company just before they started implementing Sphinx.
 
12:20 PM
The lucene query language is kinda hard to work with, I have found (maybe I just suck). Supposedly solr supports other query formats but never tried to make that work, sounds like something where you're gonna have a bad time.
 
it doesn't feel consistent.
Saying that I built a shitty lucene query builder.
 
@PeeHaa strange .. as much of an asshole I happen to be on SO, I have never received hate-mail, only genuine fan-mail.
 
TIL @PeeHaa is hated more than @tereško
 
vs7
Hey guys , I need your opinion ...

I am working in PHP from last 2.5 year , 1 year in core PHP , Then in WordPress + CI

But now i want to move to another another framework
which will be good fit for me
symfony , Yii or any other
 
my recommended options would be "none", "silex" or "symfony"
 
12:32 PM
none is the best..
 
depends on what is your primary focus, on all honesty.
 
vs7
I want to make my opps concept better
 
for career - symfony is the best option, for odd freelance work - silex, for personal growth - none
@vs7 have you gone through this list of materials? stackoverflow.com/a/16356866/727208
 
vs7
@tereško I have 80% idea
 
wat
 
vs7
12:37 PM
for OOPS , but i need to make it better
is Silex working over Shared Hosting
?
 
I have a general question. When you finished a project and it's delivered to the client. How can he contact you again about the website/webapp?
Are you using a ticket system?
 
@vs7 if you are saying that you understand about 80% of all that can be known about OOP, then you should be teaching us
 
vs7
@tereško I mean 80% general knowledge but not advance :P
 
also, you shouldn't be putting your projects on shared hosting
 
we do ! ( But only small wordpress registration pages for 1 or 2 pages ;) )
 
12:40 PM
@Duikboot I would strongly suggest to use a ticket system, otherwise client will sit on your neck saying you haven't done something that he said you must do
 
vs7
Mine 3 websites already on shared hosting :(
 
I tink when you keep in mind how your project is going to scale or what it will be used for you can put it on shared hosting... like those registration sites in my situation are on shared hosting.
 
@vs7 that's the first thing you should change if you want to use any of the advanced frameworks
 
vs7
VPS will works?
 
vs7
12:42 PM
Than I need to look for some affordable VPS
1GB ram will be enough I thought ?
 
how much does your shared hosting cost?
 
Are you learning or are you launching a project?
 
vs7
$5 per month
 
lol
you can get a VPS for that sum
 
you can by a digital ocean droplet with 512 for that money
or almost any other
 
12:43 PM
 
@vs7 how many hits do all your websites receive per day?
and what kind of sites are they?
 
vs7
around 3k
in total
 
@tereško :P
 
vs7
These are blogs
@SergeyTelshevsky
 
@vs7 512 is more than enough then
 
vs7
Have you guys listen about it
joes-cloud.com
 
@vs7 digitalocean has great articles on how to install required software like mysql, php, etc.
 
I personally host my stuff on Tilaa, but it's ~15€/mo
 
Sometimes I ask myself about how cheap they can get that price... employees needs to get paid too etc ... Or you leave it 'unmanaged' :D
 
vs7
12:47 PM
ya I setup one VPS for my client from digitalocean article
 
then you should be already familiar with that
 
vs7
yep
 
@Duikboot well, I manage my own server .. I am actually recompiling the kernel as we speak
then again, I like to tinker
 
I heard already from Tilaa too :) only good things from them.
 
@tereško what ping time do you get from LV?
 
12:49 PM
> Minimum = 45ms, Maximum = 146ms, Average = 72ms
(keep in mind, the box is currently on high load .. recompiling kernel, as I lready said)
 
@tereško where are they based?
can't find on their homepage
 
NL, afaik
my 3 criteria for picking it was: not in USA, has FreeBSD as option and acceptable price
 
I have 36ms on average with DO in NL, would like to see what times would you get on idle machine
 
vs7
So

Silex - is good for freelance purpose
Symfony - is good for career
None - For Personal Development

And i didnt able to find none framework on Google ?
 
ilaa uses CO₂-neutral data centres. All data centres are TIER-3 or higher and are located in and around Amsterdam.
What are you looking for @vs7 ?
 
12:55 PM
@vs7 No.
There are no absolute rules, and there's no magic to it.
You use whatever works for you.
 
vs7
I want to move from WordPress and CI
 
There's nothing wrong with using WordPress if that's what brings you most revenue
It all depends on your specific project needs
How can you know which to use? Simple, try them all, learn to use them, and understand what problems each solves.
 
vs7
WordPress is too much slow as compare to other framework
 
@vs7 Is that so? How do you know that?
 
vs7
Its include all the library from the start
 
12:57 PM
Define: All the library
 
vs7
Like in CI we can customize which library need to load
 
@vs7 So?\
Did you benchmark and discover that WordPress is slower?
 
vs7
the execution time is more in WP as compare to CI
 
Did you even search for benchmarks?
 
vs7
Nops
 
12:58 PM
So how do you know that the execution time is more in WP as compared to CI?
Don't make claims you've never tested or even tried to test.
And also,
 
vs7
I used pingdom and yslow
 
Do you care?
If WP executes .05 seconds longer than CI
Do you care?
 
vs7
actually recently I create a new WP site for my client mediaclues.com which is on VPS 1GB RAM 2 core
 
cache all the things (that need to be fast). Development time > execution time
 
vs7
but if there will be 30 user at a time it will stop working
 
1:01 PM
cache... cache cache
Indeed @Patrick
 
vs7
I used this site to send virtual user
site will halt after 30 user serving
and the response time is 250ms on pinging
 
@vs7 you should understand that bad code/setup on any "kewl" framework will work much worse than "wordpress out of the box"
also there are parts where each of them may shine brighter than the other
 
vs7
hm
yep true
 
Also, if you're looking for performance, you probably wouldn't use PHP
 
vs7
Actually my plan is to develop an aptitude app with Angular JS , So i want to try a new framework
 
1:05 PM
but yes, in any way, as you're crossing the beginner/intermediate line you should go silex/symfony
@vs7 don't mix
 
^ or just use components instead of going down the path of config hell :*(
 
@JoeWatkins when you still find any issues, please report :-) (or just fix)
 
@vs7 get the grip on one of them and then another
 
@vs7 actually, the best way is what @Patrick said, first learn composer
 
1:06 PM
But yeah in some cases something like silex can make sense I guess, but usually I just use components to build whatever I need at the time
 
@Patrick <3 thanks for that li nk
 
I really need to work on expanding the tutorial... I don't think it's completely useful as of now. If you have any questions/suggestions please ping me here or open a ticket on github :)
 
Is it hard to start writing out a router yourself without any lib?
 
writing a router? no. Writing an efficient router? yes
 
^ this
 
1:09 PM
@Duikboot it;s actually simple: stackoverflow.com/a/19309893/727208
 
Awesome added to the reading list :D
 
@vs7 "none" means "no framework, writing custom code, while utilizing composer libs"
 
Since when is composer used?
 
vs7
oh
 
( I haven't seen anyting before it ) but how was the flow before composer?
 
1:11 PM
@Duikboot pear.php.net it was horrible... :)
 
@vs7 yslow allows you to profile front end performance, not related to backend perf at all
 
@Duikboot flow was, "you add libs manually, and never update"
 
Oh :D
Never used PEAR.
 
@Duikboot pear, git submodule, or just don't update.
 
1:13 PM
@Duikboot flow was either: download libs manually or use a bloated framework with everything you need in it
 
Other question like that: Autoloading how long is that already being used?
Now you see everytime +- the same setups even for frameworks
 
@Duikboot Since 5.3 I think
 
Why, oh why, can we not use arbitrary values for keys?
 
5.1.2
@DanLugg there is ongoing discussion wrt this on internals :)
 
[['a' => 'b'] => 'c']
@FlorianMargaine Really? Right now?
 
1:17 PM
@DanLugg That's not how hashtables work...
 
Holy shit, would you look at that..
 
I think you could autoload before 5.3 but 5.3 made it more powerful because you could use namespaces which meant you could segment your code into separate files and directories much more readily
 
How would you expect that to work?
 
@DaveRandom I don't want "hashtables", I want object dictionaries.
With some sort of literal syntax.
 
1:18 PM
Objects can be done, arrays cannot (sanely)
 
Well, arrays !== objects is a bug-a-boo too, but I digress.
 
isn't the word "disgress"?
 
@DanLugg [new Foo($val1, $val2) => $val3] is probably the best you can ever hope for there
 
@DaveRandom Implementation-wise, why would it be so hard to key with arrays?
 
@SecondRikudo "have git" is really a quite new thing, when it comes to php workflow
 
1:19 PM
2 mins ago, by DaveRandom
@DanLugg That's not how hashtables work...
:P
 
@tereško Also true.
 
Right guys, list of required skills if you were looking to hire someone like... well one of you guys. PHP focused but not really browser orientated.
 
@Fabien Knows why CI is crap.
 
heh
 
@FlorianMargaine Building a function to hash arrays shouldn't be difficult.
 
1:21 PM
@FlorianMargaine No, "dis" tends to imply removal of something/negation (disengage, disagree) whereas "di" tends to imply multiple paths (diverge, dimension), "diverge" is roughly analogous to "split", and complements "converge"
 
4 mins ago, by Florian Margaine
@DanLugg yeah. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/objkey
@DaveRandom ah, nice mnemotechnic, thanks
 
@Fabien at which stage of hiring process ?
 
@DanLugg the internals thread: news.php.net/php.internals/78360
 
@tereško Very beginning
 
@FlorianMargaine Yea, I'm already reading through the chain
 
1:23 PM
Putting up a job spec soon on our site.
 
fizzbuzz
 
@Fabien Things that come to mind: git, composer, unit testing, SOLID
 
@DanLugg Difficult, no, but would always be O(n) and it would be hard to provide custom implementations (e.g. element order would always be significant). It could definitely be done, but objects are better suited IMO.
 
@DaveRandom Element order should be significant, as they're ordered collections.
 
@DanLugg ...for your current use case. Not for everyone's use case always
 
1:24 PM
@DaveRandom No, by definition; they're ordered collections. That should be the expected and sane behavior.
If you want order-independent hashing, then sort. If the order doesn't matter, then sorting shouldn't either.
 
Not sure, tbh
 
However, I do hear you; objects are better suited, and IMO arrays should have an analogous built-in object type.
 
@tereško Why you moving to UK yet? :P
 
@Fabien I can speak only for myself: SOLID, application architecture, linux/freebsd administration, unit testing, SQL, native javascript, SOAP/REST, system analysis, UML, experience with git/svn/hg
 
@DanLugg [1,3,2]->sort() kinda thing?
 
1:27 PM
@DaveRandom More-or-less, I understand it's non-performant, but you gotta give somewhere.
 
@rdlowrey if I use Auryn to define two different type of egines when building a car do I have to do the following -> pastebin.com/dCCVM8VX
 
@DaveRandom Disclaimer: I'm rather a fan of the "everything is an object" paradigm, eg: Ruby.
 
Hi, I am have a web application at: C:\tools\xampp1.8.3\htdocs\vy\faq
 
@DanLugg you're a fan of javascript?
 
In my C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts I add this:
127.0.0.1 faq.dev
at httpd-vhosts.conf
<VirtualHost *:80>
DocumentRoot "C:/xampp/htdocs/faq"
ServerName faq.dev
<Directory "C:/xampp/htdocs/faq">
Options Indexes FollowSymLinks Includes ExecCGI
AllowOverride All
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>
</VirtualHost>
 
1:30 PM
@DanLugg I'm on the fence on that one, I flip-flop a lot. I'm not sure about it for true scalars (numerics and bools) - strings aren't really scalars, they are a special kind of vector (char array), I could get behind it for just arrays and strings
 
@DanLugg yeah, but I feel that the ruby's community is broken
 
When I try http://faq.dev error:Access forbidden!

You don't have permission to access the requested directory. There is either no index document or the directory is read-protected.

If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster.

Error 403

faq.dev
Apache/2.4.10 (Win32) OpenSSL/1.0.1i PHP/5.5.15
 
@tereško s/community/syntax/
 
it's the ground-zero of rails ..
 
;-)
 
1:31 PM
Please help me :(
 
@DaveRandom Scalars implemented as immutable objects, with identity derived of value.
 
I might just put "Do know who any of these people are 'Nikita Popov, Anthony Ferrara, Joe Watkins', if so, send us your CV".
 
@Fabien lol
 
How I can add DocumentRoot at httpd.conf (Apache)
 
@ziGi no. define is for the default class that you want injected when it is hinted. If you need another implementation, you can specify what your class needs or even do it on the fly. Read the Injection Definitions chapter in the docs.
 
1:33 PM
@DaveRandom But yea, that's obviously the source of much discussion when talking about implementing such a thing.
 
@dovy Does C:/xampp/htdocs/faq exist? Did you restart Apache after you changed it? Are you sure the httpd-vhosts.conf file is processed (usually the Include directive in httpd.conf that would process it is commented out by default)?
 
@Fabien lol, I used these names as placeholders in some example document :D
 
heh
 
@tereško Well, we could argue the same thing about PHP: "...PHP's community is broken; it's the ground-zero for WP|CI|Yii|..."
 
@DaveRandom thank you for reading my problem.
 
1:34 PM
@DanLugg and we all agree that php is broken
 
@FlorianMargaine Hear hear!
 
I put my CakePHP application at: C:\tools\xampp1.8.3\htdocs\vy\faq
 
Greetings
 
@dovy quick, delete it before it reproduces
 
@DanLugg come on, look at the most starred messages in this room :P
 
1:35 PM
lol
@dovy OK, well that's a different path than the one in your config file...
 
 
@DanLugg not really. PHP community has a large diversity. But ruby community basically has Rails .. and that's it.
structurally it is closer to .NET
 
@DaveRandom I fixed:
<VirtualHost *:80>
DocumentRoot "C:/xampp/htdocs/vy/faq"
ServerName faq.dev
<Directory "C:/xampp/htdocs/vy/faq">
Options Indexes FollowSymLinks Includes ExecCGI
AllowOverride All
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>
</VirtualHost>
( "C:\tools\xampp1.8.3\apache\conf\extra\httpd-vhosts.conf" )
 
@dovy those paths do not match your screenshot...
 
@tereško True, except Rails isn't a Ruby-driven project -- not affiliated with, I mean, correct?
Because ASP.NET --> ASP.NET MVC --> etc., are.
 
1:38 PM
Good morning
 
@Patrick thank for reading.
 
Morning @ircmaxell
 
 
what's the good word?
 
Sponge
 
1:39 PM
15 hours ago, by PeeHaa
Bird
 
@dovy C:\xampp !== C:\tools\xampp1.8.3
 
@ziGi Your question is not at all clear, but this is one of the things I disagree with rdlowrey and levi on. Currently you would need to do one of the following:
 
@Patrick I have already but the question here is if Car is defined with V8 and then I want to build one that instantiates with W16 for $engine param since it is an interface, I have to define it again
 
 
1:41 PM
i) Do $injector->make('Car', ['engine' => 'V8Engine']);
ii) Make a delegate function that creates the engine.
 
> Good working knowledge of CSS/HTML and JavaScript (jQuery !== JavaScript)
 
Thank @Patrick
 
Or in my fork, you can use custom logic to decide what type of engine to make.
 
You true!
 
After that, life figures itself out http://t.co/XEE05BOI1F
 
1:42 PM
@Danack I will check your forck because otherwise if I use the first option I have to redefine using define twice
 
@ziGi what is the actual use case? do you want to pass two different cars to the same class or to two different classes?
 
@Patrick two different Engines dependencies to the Car constructor
 
thank @DaveRandom very much!
 
@Patrick My use case is written up here (and is probably similar to Zigi's) - github.com/rdlowrey/Auryn/issues/35
 
@ziGi When you use the car class, how do you decide which engine you want? Maybe a factory can make sense
 
1:45 PM
please stop using "physical" OOP class analogies. It doesn't work
10
 
for example if I want to create two BMW cars with a V8 and W16, how do I do it if using define?
 
@ziGi My fork is at github.com/danack/auryn Good luck. It has even less documentation that the master.
 
@ircmaxell So using a physical example for coding is like watching a plane crash?
 
no, it leads to confusion. Since objects don't really model real-world behavior in 99% of application cases
 
@ircmaxell +1
 
1:47 PM
nods
 
so saying "car requires engine" or "class lion extends Cat" works only on the absolute surface of conversation, but it falls down so quickly once you look at it, that it's extremely counter productive talking about it
 
@ziGi this test is actually a reasonable example of how to define the hierarchies....though I've just realised that it may still not fit your needs, unless you have some way of differentiating which object is which.
 
Physical examples are better for people who are curious more than wanting to learn IMO. Like explaining it to your boss.
 
@ziGi sounds like you just need a BmwFactory that can build both and then inject that in your class that needs to be able to create different BMWs. But yeah, a real example would be much better...
 
When doc-blocking a method, do you use @return mixed where applicable, or some other name? I can't recall if that's a standard (pseudo-standard)
 
1:51 PM
@return bool|SomeInterface
 
@tereško What if it's a "bag", returning anything?
 
@DanLugg I use mixed, unless there's a well defined system by which the types are chosen
 
@DanLugg the the bag is broken by design and you shouldn't be thinking about how to document it
 
^^ Likewise, I try to return anything other than mixed when possible, but when you have an argument bag...
 
@tereško Maybe @todo: fix this
 
1:52 PM
@Danack my example was not to provide a way to ask for a factory but rather to understand whether Auryn expects most of the classes to more or less understand what has to be instanciated (so in a sense it is more statical) and not allow using the DIC as a factory
 
@DaveRandom lol
 
@tereško disagree
 
Yeah, you should be as specific as possible, but mixed is more or less a flag telling you to go and check for what you'll get back
 
example: a cache backend. Shouldn't know, should just be a dumb container. And your cache frontend should do the typing for you
 
@ziGi If you have a specific use case, you should probably say that rather than trying hypotheticals.
 
1:53 PM
^^ One of my use-cases.
 
@ircmaxell ok, granted
 
@Machavity Yeh that only applies to specifically the php.net docs though
It's a de-facto standard, not an actual standard
 
TBH, I prefer the variant verbiage, but whatev's
 
^^ The reason good systems have honeypots ^^
 
1:56 PM
@ircmaxell *ba-dum tss*
 
Heisenberg is always in those comics. -_-
 
@DanLugg While I accept that the word it probably better, it's just too VB for me to take it seriously.
 
@DaveRandom lol
By VB you mean "very beautiful"?
OPTION EXPLICIT
 
@DanLugg On Error Goto Next ' fuck you, application design!
 

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