« first day (1447 days earlier)      last day (3504 days later) » 

4:00 PM
but parallel ?
 
user895378
I couldn't think of a better way to phrase that.
 
user895378
Concurrent synchronous I guess is better
 
you are prominent, and only going to get more prominent, so I'd really like it if you could try ...
I called out mtdowling for using incorrect terminology the other day ...
 
user895378
I know, the async/parallel/concurrent distinction. My apologies.
 
fair is fair ...
 
user895378
4:01 PM
You're absolutely right.
 
@JoeWatkins I've given up on him
@boden_c @ircmaxell Yeah, I've seen it, but didn't want to pull in a dependency or implement something as complicated.
 
user895378
The problem with mtdowling's thing is that using curl_multi he will never be able to do a real monadic representation of the unresolved result
 
he can present the abstraction of a monadic result to the end user
behind the scenes there will be wiring, but who cares about that?
 
user895378
I guess, but there's no way to get the final result without polling right? Or am I misunderstanding something about curl?
 
user895378
You could hide that internally but it would still be severely suboptimal.
 
4:04 PM
he's quite difficult to convince ... of anything ...
 
you'd need some sort of event loop for it
but you'd need that anyway
you don't need to expose that to the end-user
 
but but ... he did listen when everyone screamed that his HTTP PSR was crap, he did drop it ...
so maybe ... keep screaming ...
 
no, he dropped it after being beaten over the head
 
user895378
That whole thing was a disaster ... I'm so glad other people got on board that it was a bad bad thing
 
ok, so get boxing gloves ...
 
user895378
4:05 PM
Hey @JoeWatkins can you link me to my parallel language bastardization so I can fix? I have so many libs I don't know in which readme that appears?
 
the dns readme
 
@JoeWatkins It took a LOT of screaming.
 
user895378
Well, I take issue with people being "HTTP experts" when they don't actually implement HTTP themselves. His work is based entirely on curl.
 
user895378
It's like me being an expert on threading (spoiler alert: I'm not) because I used Joe's pthreads extension.
 
don't quote me, but sure I read it was an optional dep now, I only remember because I thought "wow, he listened again" ...
 
4:09 PM
@rdlowrey well... You can be an expert without actually building it, but I get the point...
 
user895378
@ircmaxell yeah, you know what I'm saying :)
 
yup
 
user895378
It's kind of like how you don't want to hire a "security person" unless they've actually been a real hacker.
 
Can someone help me out with this: stackoverflow.com/questions/26157176/…
 
posted on October 02, 2014 by kbironneau

/* by Vince */

 
4:11 PM
I love that one
 
I hath obtained me a dog.
 
congrats
 
aww, dappy ears ...
 
velvety
 
The saturation/warmth kinda messes the pic up, but he's very much a gray/slate color; Blue Euro-Dane
 
4:14 PM
big paws, (s)he's going to be a big grown up
 
@ircmaxell I like to imagine the sealion(?) posing in front of his mates with the fish in the same way 2 mins later
 
lol
 
@ircmaxell He, yea. His Dad is ~190 lbs
@DaveRandom And the fisherman pops up and swipes the fish back? In an unbreakable cycle of fish-theft?
 
@DaveRandom this obviously happened ....
lol, we have too much time to spare ... I'm gonna do some work ...
0
Q: How to close an Apache thread from PHP?

php_nub_qqI am trying to get PHP to tell Apache to close the connection and respectively free the worker thread. The reason being is I have a script that is invoked with client request and takes up some time to process but returns nothing to the client, so it just makes no sense to keep the thread occupied...

it starts with "turn yourself inside out" ... I dunno the rest ...
 
Hello guys , my mail limit expires quickly , the website is built on php , wordpress to be exact , hosting is from godaddy , I'm not sending much mails daily , what can be the reason ?
 
4:19 PM
We seem to have gone over this ^^ @SiddharthSharma
 
What you need is Internet Jesus ... nobody else could know ...
 
I think in this case, Internet Doogie Howser, MD would be more helpful. We need a diagnosis. The absolution comes later, after code gets shared.
 
lol
someone want me to script that exact same ERD (i.imgur.com/PE7C4wX.png) and he wants to pay me, should I even ask for a payment. if yes also say how much I should shoot at.
but it needs some more stuff in it.
 
I'm not the internet jesus, but I did stay in a holiday inn express last night...
 
High roller.
 
4:29 PM
@ircmaxell maths is your thing, right ?? github.com/krakjoe/apcu/pull/87/files
can you explain why some of those numbers don't appear to make sense ?
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins Thank you for setting me straight.
 
(one of your things)
 
@JoeWatkins it's math, not maths :-P
 
user895378
Also, I'm not a fan of the gravatars showing up in the autocomplete names when you're pinging someone. It's kind of ugly. Are name collisions really that much of a problem?
 
@rdlowrey thanks for listening :)
 
4:31 PM
@JoeWatkins they are primes...
 
@JoeWatkins Which part doesn't make sense?
 
a guy named joe was here yesterday
+20483, /* 20480 */
+30727, /* 30720 */
oh oh
I'll shut up ...
 
:D
 
so, the commented number is an interval
and the prime is the nearest prime to that interval
 
@rdlowrey Not for some names. I used to get random pings constantly.
 
4:33 PM
:-)
 
yeah, when I looked at the whole thing I spotted that ... not surprisingly I don't remember apc's code by heart :D
@rdlowrey isn't it just asynchronous ?
 
I'm curious why a prime number of buckets tho
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins you mean the gravatar retrieval?
 
hehe, no ... I mean "concurrent synchronous" ...
doesn't asynchronous describe it better ?
 
The only math I see being done is a modulo, which shouldn't be effected by primality
unless they are just trying to reduce bucket collisions...
 
4:37 PM
I read a thing once but I forgot why @ircmaxell ... reducing collisions sounds reasonable ...
 
but in that case, just use a randomized hashing function
 
apc sucks, if it is doing something wrong, or sub-optimally then I wouldn't be all that surprised ...
in theory very good but in real world, and really ... it does suck ...
it's alright when everything is alright ...
things get messy real fast, every call to acquire or release a mutex is assumed to succeed, all the time, so when you're under extreme load, or when some process is killed when it held the lock, or one of a bunch of other things that do actually happen on busy sites, it goes to crap and you have to kill everything and start again ...
 
Ron
how do I know if my pdo supports levenshtein distance function?
 
@JoeWatkins You should totally tell the maintainer of it about those problems so that they can sort them out......oh......wait.....
@Ron try to call it and see if an exception is thrown?
 
I can't change it ...
 
Ron
4:49 PM
I tried the following but It didnt work and I didnt get any exception
try
{
$queryString = "test test";
$stockstmt = $pdo->prepare("SELECT `id` FROM `sandsdb`.`stock` WHERE `WebTitle` LIKE ? AND levenshtein(?, `WebTitle`) < 4 DESC");
$stockstmt->execute(array('%' . $queryString . '%', $queryString));
echo "It doesnt reach here";
}
catch (PDOException $e)
{
echo "exception: " . $e->getMessage();
}
 
it has to support four different kinds of locking to remain compatible, and there's no sensible way to integrate all of them ... several places in the code stuff is done outside of a critical section, only accounting but still, not much regard is given to safety all over it, it's too hard to make it behave and remain compatible with everything it was compatible with before ...
 
could you use a pastebin @Ron, and in what way did it not work?
 
@JoeWatkins :-/
@Ron Is your code in a namespace and have you done "use PDOException;"
 
one of them is a spinlock, famously the worst kind of synchronization on the face of the earth, used because programmers are lazy and they are "fault tolerant" (will keep executing if you fuck up)
 
Ron
@RonniSkansing http://pastebin.com/vPQ6q3RP
It doesnt echo "It doesnt reach here" but if I put an echo before the execution it works.
@Danack No and No
 
4:52 PM
Step through it with a debugger then?
 
I started apcu with good intentions, I did use the best locking available, I did change the logic, and then tested and tested, and then before I could hit the release button rasmus advised that it remain compatible ... that was the day I found out that freebsd doesn't support a bunch of stuff that modern software requires ... such as process shared locks ... (it needs the spinlock)
 
user895378
@SecondRikudo Oh, I'll take one if you've still got any.
 
Ron
I guess that I just dont have that function.. I will try to implement it to the sql
 
@rdlowrey I think you're only the second person in here to take him up on it ....
 
user895378
I love trying things! Gimme gimme!
 
4:59 PM
yeah US only sucks ...
 
@Ron do you have error/warnings enabled? If it does not output the echo, and not goto the catch.. well.. what happens?
 
@rdlowrey so ... "Concurrent Synchronous" ...
 
Ron
@RonniSkansing Actually, it might be disabled, I will check it
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins I'm not sure how best to say that, really. It's "synchronous" in that there are no callbacks or yields or anything but you're still doing multiple things concurrently.
 
user895378
The script is synchronous in that it doesn't proceed from that point until all the concurrent operations complete (or fail).
 
Ron
5:02 PM
@RonniSkansing Yup, it was disabled. SQLSTATE[42000]: Syntax error or access violation: 1305 FUNCTION sandsdb.levenshtein does not exist
 
it's asynchronous ... I would call it that, and introduce the concept of a synchronization point in your documentation, a synchronization point is the same thing for asynchronous and parallel code and should be easy thing to grasp for the reader ?
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins brilliant.
 
user895378
I think the problem is that I was thinking in terms of what was happening under the hood but the reader doesn't know or care.
 
Ron
How do I insert the function?
 
that was pretty good actually, yeah :D
 
user895378
5:04 PM
@JoeWatkins It was really good. You succinctly explained what was happening in my own code better than I could :)
 
Having an interesting discussion, curious what you guys think. There is an interface called "Introspective" that requires a define method, which returns structured metadata defining an object -- description of methods along with dependencies, arguments, and return types, as well as a description of the class. Basically, it is the information you'd put in a docblock.
The debate is that this is superior to parsing docblocks because it eliminates the need to parse, is 100% native, and is useable at runtime. Looking at the code, it does look pretty much like a docblock: gist.github.com/GRMule/376040a351bc8cd9effd
We're also debating the merit of using this to drive dependency injection, rather than using Reflection to look at the method signature. On that front, this does have the added benefit of typehinting scalars.
Buuuut... it is weird to me.
 
just it separates definition and description...
 
@Ron have you tested the sql query "directly" on the db (not via pdo)?
 
Ron
no, why? will the result be different? :O
 
5:11 PM
@Chris The problem from my perspective is that I'm lazy. Thinking about setting up all those definitions by hand when something like Auryn can just figure most of it out seems like it would be a drag.
 
visited 1603 days, 1600 consecutive
 
@cspray With that said, do you docblock everything as a matter of course?
 
I also don't like the idea of "hacking" scalar typehinting through a DIC. You wind up having the mindset that you have some resemblance of scalar type safety and the first time the object is created outside of that DIC you find weird bugs
 
:-)
 
@ircmaxell that's commitment ...
 
5:12 PM
LOL
 
@Chris I do but most of that is PHPStorm. I flesh out the method and type /**[Enter] and the IDE does the rest
 
haha
 
@cspray That's a fair point. Looking at the code (mostly mock), the dev that proposed this treats those arguments as forgone conclusions, he doesn't validate the scalars because the presumption is that the DIC did it already.
So the objects are fragile in test cases where we manually pass the arguments
 
So I am done with the scripts for that user, how much should I charge. Or shall I just say here you go for free..
Worked for 1,5-2hours on it (including finding mistakes in the ERD)
 
^^ IMO, the first time you give someone work for free, you've instantly devalued the knowledge that you're trying to sell to them. You'll never get a decent rate out of that client again.
Guidance and help (ala Stack Overflow) are one thing, "give me the codez" is another, whether it happens on the internet, or to your face from a client.
 
5:19 PM
Hey guys
Messing in Windows 10 lol
 
Ye he wants to pay me but I don't know how much.
That's up to me
 
@ircmaxell do you have some cron.daily entry for refreshing SO every day!?
 
No
 
I thought about 10$ per hour in this case. taking it 2hours - 20$ charging 1,5 hours so 15$
 
@TomášAresakMalčánek does it look like W8?
 
5:21 PM
Yeah with start menu :D
 
going for dinner
cya
 
@Chris I don't like the idea of doing it through an interface - classes should not be even slightly aware of tools like DIC. And yes annotations suck for multiple reasons. I think I would be okay with having all of the meta data about a class be in a defined place e.g. if you have a class Foo, then all of the meta data would be in class FooMeta. However I'm also not entirely sure what you're attempting to do with that information - and it does sound a bit weird what you described.
 
@Danack This is mainly a theoretical discussion with some mock code. The initial concept outlined this metadata being used for DIC, an interface for browsing classes and their associated tests, and auto-generated project documentation.
 
And @Chris this bit in particular "'dependencies'=>['renderEngine', 'dataAccess', 'modelFactory', 'currentUser', 'settings']," sucks massively. You shouldn't attempt to have a naming system for your things - there is a naming system built into PHP and that's the actual class and interface names.
Having two sets of names is not only redundant but misleading...
 
5:28 PM
@DaveRandom do you people have normal power sockets yet?
 
tbh docblocks are okay for generating documentation...I'd use them and then figure out what information they don't contain adequately as separate issue..
 
@Danack Those would be interface names, or fully qualified class names. Basically, exactly what is typehinted
 
@PeeHaa We have the best power sockets.
@Chris Then that's definitely duplication....
 
@Danack Still those stupid: Ha we are different. deal with it bitches sockets?
 
@ircmaxell I cannot believe that you had no day without internet since 2009…
 
5:30 PM
@Danack Aye, but you didn't have to reflect to get those names. IDK... we're done talking about it now, but we're going to revisit the idea. I'm on the fence. I think at the end of the day, to me, docblocks are more well-defined. Both approaches are portable in enough, but a docblock affects nothing if you pull a class into a project that doesn't read them. This Introspective interface, on the other hand, has to follow the class into a new project, or you'd have to modify the class.
 
@bwoebi yeah, I did what it took...
 
@bwoebi No kidding! Every winter, we lose electric service and all the cell towers go down, I have to drive to the next town over to get internet.
 
@ircmaxell :o
 
@Chris How are you transporting that internet once you have gotten it? :)
 
5:32 PM
@PeeHaa Is it possible to bring down cavalry with that socket? I think not.
 
lol
Those plugs of you and your people look really stupid
 
so ... I wanted to give an example of what interleaved instructions actually means in the real world, but without magic, just in pure php ...
looking for thoughts ...
 
GERSH DERN EURAPERANS DEM PLERGS IS DERPED
 
@JoeWatkins Use the async query stuff php.net/manual/en/mysqli.reap-async-query.php ?
@JoeWatkins Do you mean at a high level view or a low level view? Artax also does asynchronous requests in pure PHP.
 
no I mean an illustrative example of what is means to do two things asynchronously by interleaving instructions or tasks in a single thread, without any magic, I mean no magic at all ...
 
user895378
5:46 PM
The only way I know how to do it in pure PHP is to use stream_select() inside a loop to process IO events asynchronously inside the same thread and let the select() call inform you when streams are actionable.
 
you're thinking too high level for it to make sense to everyone ...
or maybe you're not and I'm wrong ... that can also happen ...
 
user895378
I'm not sure how else to do it, honestly.
 
@Danack I need to pick up another adapter. I only have 2
 
@ircmaxell email the hotel, they may have some for guests? Out of interest, what time are you getting into Manchester?
 
@Danack nah, I'll be fine... Easy peasy
I land at like 8:30am
 
5:52 PM
Talk about a red-eye flight....
 
@rdlowrey try to make a distinction between non blocking code and asynchronous code, I got some illustrative code, I think it'll work on everyone ...
 
@Danack yeah, I'm going to be dead
also: I'm a bit stressed, so...
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins Well non-blocking is the only good way to do things asynchronously in a single-threaded environment. Otherwise you're just a task scheduler running one task for a few microseconds then switching to another.
 
too low level, we're not talking about concurrency at the level of the operating system but at the level of the program, where it matters for the programmer ...
 
@ircmaxell Thank you, I needed that.
 
user895378
5:55 PM
@JoeWatkins I guess I'm not really sure what you're after :/ maybe I would do better to comment on example code once you have it.
 
6:08 PM
ok so continuing using the example of code that has three unimportant tasks to achieve, like in the blog/reddit post ... so asynchronous means that the instructions for the three tasks are interleaved so that they run concurrently with respect to each other ... the simplest illustrative code I can come up with is
does it explain it ?
 
So our credit card processing broke today. I had to ignore all the warning notes I left to myself years ago and open up the third-party library to troubleshoot. Representitive line:
 curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_SSL_VERIFYPEER, 0); // this line makes it work under https
 
user895378
@Charles zomg
 
super dangerous ...
 
I thought I wanted to murder this guy. No, now this is involuntary manslaughter. I am compelled to correct this offense.
 
user895378
Hello, Russia. Meet user's credit card. You two kids have fun together!
 
@rdlowrey what do you think ?
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins Yeah I see what you're doing there. I think that should be understandable for pretty much anyone. That's basically what I meant by "Otherwise you're just a task scheduler running one task for a few microseconds then switching to another."
 
At least it sets CURLOPT_SSL_VERIFYHOST to 2. *sigh*
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins You might also point people to @NikiC's generator multitasking article
 
@Charles Gotta work under https though
:D
 
6:13 PM
@LeviMorrison For sweet, sweet fake internet points?
 
user895378
CURLOPT_SSL_VERIFYHOST is a horrific thing. It's really terrible.
 
oh yeah but start at the beginning I think, before we go into what parallel and non-blocking and even generators are, it shows the basic pattern ...
totally pointless code, of course ...
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins yeah, that's a good example. I think the generator thing is pretty difficult for people to grasp at first.
 
user895378
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_SSL_VERIFYHOST, true); // doesn't do what you think
 
@Charles I guess.
 
6:15 PM
@rdlowrey Yup, completely broken because people don't read...
@LeviMorrison That, and, well, someone is wrong on the internet.
 
user895378
@Charles Maybe the scariest non-eval line of PHP code you can encounter.
 
@rdlowrey But its true that I want to verify the SSL host!
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison I know it's supposed to be a 1:1 mapping to libcurl but I feel like that really ought to be split into two constants.
 
@rdlowrey "it's supposed to be a 1:1 mapping to libcurl" <- and this is everything that is wrong with it.
 
user895378
@Charles ZOMG SO MUCH AGREE!
 
user895378
6:20 PM
This is the problem with most php extensions.
 
user895378
They aren't php APIs, they're C APIs.
 
user895378
I get it that mostly people just need access to the underlying C libs, so they just duplicate the C API.
 
user895378
And creating good APIs takes time and iteration.
 
user895378
But good APIs are important.
 
The ungoodness of the standard library's API is pretty much everyone's number one complaint about PHP anyway.
 
6:21 PM
98% of PHP and C apis aren't good. So there's no real examples to show people what good is, nor incentive for people to take time
 
user895378
That's one of the really nice things about what @JoeWatkins has done with pecl/pthreads. He's worked hard to expose an API that isn't impossible for the average PHP programmer even though what's happening under the hood is pretty complex.
 
Very, very true.
 
there is considerable maintenance cost associated with doing it that way ... and there's no established standard either, what you and I see as an acceptable API others would rather see implemented in a totally different way ...
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins Good thing we're right and they're wrong ;)
 
hehe, totally ...
 
user895378
6:24 PM
lol, but yeah, I see what you mean.
 
The API problem is what's stopping me from writing babby's first PHP extension
I have the perfect library in mind for it, but the API is very, very, very C.
oh wow
it's been so long since I looked that someone did it already
 
Good API design in C and PHP can be at odds with each other, as well.
In C you want to avoid allocating memory in basically every function.
 
still looks pretty much like a C api to me ...
 
So in C you see out parameters and other kinds of things so that it pushes memory allocation to someone else... and that's a good thing.
But in my opinion out parameters in PHP are bad.
 
Sigh
 
6:28 PM
looks quite nice actually ...
@Charles if you could do what that is doing in PHP (you might even be able to, I dunno), you would know how to design the API wouldn't you ?
 
Hey guys
 
it's not different, you shouldn't use an api other than the one you would normally write just because it's in an extension ...
 
@JoeWatkins bad things happen when you try to debug a file you've loaded once… but isn't accessible anymore. Getting errors in list at each break... :-/ … trying to fix it by storing the files in memory upon compilation.
 
@JoeWatkins That's the thing. I wouldn't. I'd have to do it C-function-by-C-function at first until I understood what the pain points were, and then begin either abstracting away or building helpers.
 
I am working with the google recaptcha api (again) and with xhr request verification, it always fails while with direct form submit, it works as intended. What could be the implications of using an ajax request for recaptcha verification? Are they documented somewhere?
Or is there something I could be doing wrong?
 
6:32 PM
@JoeWatkins Oh, wait, I think I misunderstood your question.
Well, in this specific case, I wouldn't do it in PHP because the thought of writing low-level terminal code is offensive. We're currently using ncurses for this stuff, and wrote a ... uh ... very interesting and unique approach to wrapping it in something that a previous developer thought was sanity. I certainly know how I wouldn't do it.
 
user895378
@Charles This is the thing I'd have to do as well. I need iteration to come up with any sensible API.
 
@Charles if that's the case, then ... the R in R&D ... write a simple application in C using the library and what it should look like will become obvious in the same way, without the pain of breaking apis you have published and without a whole bunch of work ...
@bwoebi keep at it, great stuff :)
 
@JoeWatkins Ah, but I don't publish stuff until it's ready to be looked at. :)
 
still I wouldn't abstract it with zend first, I'd get to know the library
which is the position you are usually in when setting out to abstract something ...
but zend is just in the way at the very beginning I think ...
 
Yeah, that is true.
I'm still a while from thinking about this one again.
 
6:36 PM
@AwalGarg ? what is direct form submit? I do not get it at all
 
/me applies peer pressure
 
@RonniSkansing I mean if the form is submitted via the submit button, the response of recaptcha check is as intended. But if I send the same request via AJAX, google always returns false.
 
PHP/@laravelphp folks: Can anyone point me towards smart, coherent critiques of Facades that go beyond "something something static method"?
 
@RonniSkansing should I post some code to demonstrate?
 
@JoeWatkins well. Something something static method is THE critique. final dot.
 
6:41 PM
tbh if I listened to/read another lecture on the subject, pretty sure it would appear to be something something static method however eloquent the words used ...
 
@LeviMorrison have I sent you your invite yet?
 
@RonniSkansing pastebin.com/EpD4sUKt I hope this clears the question.
 
user895378
Is it only in PHP in which people argue known antipatterns are totally probably still okay?
 
I'm all out of invites folks
Sorry for those of you who I couldn't send
 
user895378
:(
 
6:52 PM
@rdlowrey You should ask Levi
If he's anything like me, he should have gotten 5 invites once he registers
(Could anyone unpin my message?)
 
user895378
It gets tiresome. And the whole laravel facades fight is indicative of the stupid framework loop PHP has been stuck in for the last seven or eight years.
 
@SecondRikudo I had one as of 1 minute ago from you :D
 
@LeviMorrison Great
 
Working on transferring domains now.
 
@LeviMorrison Do you have invites to give?
(I got 5 instantly)
 
6:56 PM
@SecondRikudo If I do I don't see how to use them.
 
@LeviMorrison Should appear in the sidebar
 
Then I do not have any invites.
Maybe once I get a domain in.
 
=( Sorry @rdlowrey
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison If they decide to show up later I'd take one :)
 
user895378
@SecondRikudo no worries man. My world managed to continue existing happily without them for the last 32 years.
 
6:57 PM
I need to get off of 1and1.com and godaddy.com badly so I definitely appreciate it ^^
I welcome the Google Web Overlords.
 
user895378
Yes. I feel like I'm signing the internet's very own Patriot Act by using google services but I just can't help it. I want that security. Murder my privacy I don't even care :)
 
I don't welcome the Google Domain Overlords, but they have some of the cool new gtlds, so I suppose we're gonna have to accept them. Sigh...
 
Did any of you ever run into issues because PHP stores integral array keys as integers?
 
@rdlowrey Y'know, that loop isn't exclusive to PHP; .NET (which does just dandy sucking on it's own) has a similar ecosystem surrounding ASP.NET
 
Just read a complaint about it and I understand that it can theoretically cause problems, but I don't think I ever ran into it myself
 
7:09 PM
@NikiC You mean like "1" is stored in 1?
 
user895378
@DanLugg good to know.
 
@LeviMorrison yep
 
And you saw this complaint on reddit, yes?
 
@rdlowrey From my observations, at least. Mind you, there isn't so much belly-rubbing and ear-pissing as there is in PHP. People just accept it and ask stupid questions.
 
@LeviMorrison Why of course. From a user I don't take particularly seriously. Which is also why I doubt it's an actual issue ^^
 
7:13 PM
@NikiC relevant
I want to send this so badly:
Hmmm... where are your RFCs to clean up the language?

Oh wait you switched to Python? Maybe you are too young to remember the Python 2 and 3 schism?

Oh wait, that schism is still going on?

Language development is hard. Grow a pair and start *actually* contributing or shut up.
 
@LeviMorrison Sounds fine. Well, apart from the last sentence maybe ^^
 
Except the last point is the whole point.
^^
 
@LeviMorrison great... the last line is great :)
could be used alone
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison If you don't, please give me permission to send it :)
 
@rdlowrey Permission granted.
 
user895378
7:20 PM
\o/
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison modified slightly to suit my own needs.
 
@rdlowrey attheDisco lmao
 
user895378
Yeah, I figured something slightly less serious would help remind me not to take reddit too seriously.
 
Good morning
 
@rdlowrey "Grow a pair", quotes and all would have been nice too :-P
 
7:30 PM
@LeviMorrison That user seems to think that me removing the error when calling $obj->__clone() is a huge issue that completely breaks PHP. He's using every chance to bring it up...
 
user895378
@DanLugg Ah, I try to avoid leaving a trail of vulgarity on the internet. At least when I'm not drinking.
 
@NikiC He's switched to Python as well... not sure why he trolls us so.
 
Why should __clone or any magic OOB cause a problem? Calling $foo->__construct() would likely just have the effect of reinitializing the object.
Same goes for __clone. I assume that's why the error was removed?
 
yes ... and as we saw yesterday people actually have uses for doing $foo->__construct(). As such I don't get his obsession with __clone
 
@NikiC What's the use-case? Reinitialization?
 
7:33 PM
I have no idea what the use case is
 
Oh, I thought you meant someone demonstrated something yesterday
 
Yes, I just didn't understand it ^^
 
lol
 
One of the usual atrocities committed in the name of ORMs, I think.
 
Ah. There tends to be a lot of those.
 
7:34 PM
Let's unserialize the data and then call the constructor! <- most likely
 
It'd be nice if PHP could migrate away from most magic methods, and instead use magic-marker interfaces; Cloneable, Indexable, PropertyAccessible, Invokable, etc.
 
I don't really like some of the dynamic bits of PHP.
I was thinking about this at lunch today.
 
I've just always found that solution to the general problem of syntax hooks to be far more elegant.
 
For instance, variable variables... $$foo <- who really wants to deal with that?
 
@LeviMorrison Someone was going off about how awesome they are the other day.
 
user895378
7:37 PM
 
user895378
Ah, was hoping for the onebox. Oh well.
 
I can understand the idea that your language is so dynamic even the variables you refer to can be dynamic.
There's just a point where the dynamic behavior is mostly a programmer burden, and building tools to help you only helps so much.
 
@DanLugg I'm assuming this was after they ate a big ol' bowl of paint chips?
 
With variable variables you basically must execute the code to know what it will do at even a high level.
Those parts of dynamic behavior I don't like.
 
@rdlowrey ah, you're following @SciencePorn too? :-P
 
user895378
7:39 PM
@bwoebi yep! I cracked up when I saw that a moment ago. I was immediately like, "Oh no, she moved forward."
 
Sep 19 at 16:36, by cHao
stop trying to fuck up PHP with your strictness.
Sep 19 at 16:37, by cHao
i use $$var. i like that i can do that.
 
@rdlowrey hehe, me too ;-D
 
@rdlowrey It was funny, but I'll be honest, I'd have laughed a lot more if it came back with a cat hanging off of it, which would have promptly ensconced her face.
 
@cHao Genuine question:
Sep 19 at 16:36, by cHao
stop trying to fuck up PHP with your strictness.
 
@LeviMorrison That reminds me of the first time I saw somebody using variable variables
 
7:41 PM
Sep 19 at 16:37, by cHao
i use $$var. i like that i can do that.
 
They had implemented their own extract function... looked something like 3v4l.org/3BhOk
 
@LeviMorrison Nothing against dynamic dynamics. Just accept that things may have their uses, even if you don't know them.
 
@cHao Are you just trolling here?
 
@LeviMorrison If you follow through that conversation, I think you'll conclude the answer is "no".
 
@bwoebi Variable variables can basically be replaced by array usage which can actually be reasoned with. I question the validity of any use case which cannot be converted to the array.
But I understand what you are saying.
I know some Ruby folk just love their methodMissing (their __call), which pretty much seems horrible to me
 
7:43 PM
@LeviMorrison respond_to? ;-)
 
@LeviMorrison I strongly doubt it. Btw. I like that I can do it. But that doesn't mean that I'd use it (especially where inappropriate, which is basically everywhere, but one never knows...)
 
@bwoebi If 99% of your use-cases are invalid maybe you shouldn't be a feature.
 
@LeviMorrison maybe. But that doesn't either mean that it should be removed.
 
Maybe. I would vote for removing variable-variables in a heartbeat though.
The other wishy-washy dynamic stuff... maybe not.
 
by the way, a reason to use variable variables is emulating register_globals on legacy codebases you want to run with 5.6
 
7:46 PM
That's not a valid use case.
 
it is.
 
No, fix your code.
 
don't change a running system.
 
If it relies on register_globals you should.
 
hehe. But that isn't real world.
 
7:49 PM
@DaveRandom what for? interview material or personal?
 

« first day (1447 days earlier)      last day (3504 days later) »