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8:00 PM
^ this
 
@bwoebi Yeah - but if you want to pass an array of things, and want to typehint that the array is made up of the same types of objects, then you need something like Java's Array<SomeInterface>
 
Still, generics aren't very PHP
 
@DaveRandom I'd concede to that, unfortunately.
 
Or even more usefully, throw an error when inserting an object that does not implement the required interface when inserting it into the array.
 
But I gotta say, I'm sick of doing DingleCollection, DangleCollection, DongleCollection when I could just do Collection<Dangle>.
 
8:02 PM
I have a pretty large dongle collection. All kinds of useless ones, really should throw them away, probably never will
 
@Danack @DanLugg No, we don't need typehints. It's just a way to force the dev by the language to not give other args than explicitely defined. Documentation is the alternative here.
 
@Danack True. But I'm an advocate that the type-system shouldn't have to be enforced in user-land.
Perhaps some AOP for type constraint checks will be in order here.
That'll at least limit the intrusion of the conditions.
 
@bwoebi Much as I hate to agree with that, in the context of PHP that really is the only sensible attitude to the matter. PHP is not an OOP language and it's not a strongly typed language, and generics only make sense when both of those things apply.
 
I think PHP is both, because people use it as both.
 
I love the idea of generics, I use them in "proper" OO languages a lot, but it doesn't make sense in PHP
 
8:06 PM
@DanLugg But you could also only generate the code with a little PHP Skript which transforms your code from generics to non-generic… Like it's done in PHP source via Zend/zend_vm_gen.php
 
@DanLugg Nothing can "be" both. Either it's an OO language or it isn't. If it doesn't force you to use OO for everything, it's just a language that supports some OO features and paradigms.
 
@bwoebi Yep. And now we'll have PHP's Coffeescript, which should remain ground up and in the freezer.
 
@DaveRandom Then why not support this particular OO feature?
I don't get the whole "It doesn't fit in PHP because you might not use it"
 
@DaveRandom If an application exclusively uses the OO paradigm, by reading that application what would you assume of the language it's written in?
 
@bwoebi Doesn't HHVM have something like that?
 
8:09 PM
@DaveRandom don't know.
 
@cspray You know I regularly lament the lack of some features that one might consider OO essentials (refer the enum conversation). My opinion on such matters shifts regularly.
 
@DanLugg I don't know what exactly coffeescript is… just know it has to do something with JS… but why not?
 
@bwoebi It's meta-programming a ... macro-language? I suppose. It transforms to JavaScript. Like Dart.
 
Disclaimer: My opinions are neither static, nor worthwhile. Listening to me may harm you and others around you.
 
Wait, does Dart translate? I can't remember.
 
8:12 PM
@DaveRandom Allergy Warning: ideas may contain farts ....
 
@DanLugg Dart is a different kettle of fish though, given that it's also designed to run on its own VM.
 
@DaveRandom Right. So bad example.
 
I sometimes like to have C preprocessor macros in PHP…
 
zend has a vm ...
 
Anyway, maybe macro/transformation programming is what PHP needs.
 
8:13 PM
@DaveRandom *Ignoring disclaimer*
 
We can easily emulate most of the features by pre-processing a higher language down to PHP.
 
I dunno why that link was to a different tree, but zend does have a VM ... you just don't hear people talking about it ... it's there, else nothing would work ...
I suppose you do hear people talking about it .. we colloquially call the vm the executor ... it's a vm, by any definition ...
 
< planning to take over Anthony's constant scalar expression RFC and adding support for operations on constant and functions (like in C++ the constexpr functions) (\cc @DanLugg)
 
wasn't it, at least in part, the reaction to those rfc's that made him quit ...
 
8:19 PM
@JoeWatkins I think that RFC long preceded the fallout that caused his departure, but yea, that was the beginning of the end.
 
so then, careful @bwoebi ... you might be walking into a shit storm ...
 
@JoeWatkins I don't think this thread was a bigger cause
 
Well, the shit-storm has probably settled. But I suppose that doesn't mean there isn't shit everywhere.
 
@JoeWatkins what I mainly got from the thread is that constant support was missing
 
you can never tell what the community will stat talking about when you publish an RFC and this one is pretty close to a sore subject ... just an observation ...
 
8:22 PM
@JoeWatkins I don't think so… but it'll still take some time. I don't have yet fully finished my actual work on constant_fcalls which are principally the base for this.
 
I just read my last response to internals, and it reads a bit like "I'm bored of talking about this now" ... I hate having to communicate with people ...
in a situation like this, or in IRC we are all responsible for the words we say, because it's immediate, accountability is felt ... on ml and reddit things go way of course ... just talk about anything so long as we're talking seems to be the order of the day in those places ...
 
yeah, it's rare that replies are within minutes there…
 
Just insult people then put ':p' at the end. it lightens the whole thing.
 
if you wanna be insulted go on irc and offer your time up when bjori is in a bad mood ...
 
@Fabien That's what I do. You filthy turd. :-P
 
8:27 PM
lol
 
ajf (I think it's someone who is known to the community and returning) offered to do-over some of news.php.net
[20:41] <bjori> but completely swapping something out with soething yet another homegrown by someone who hasn't gained any trust is not happening
[20:41] <ajf> I have actually improved the code in some ways so far though, I think. I made it work without needing Apache
[20:42] <-- euskadi31 has left this server (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0).
[20:42] <ajf> Well, I have two patches (one a bug fix, one a "feature" removal) accepted into PHP so far, albeit both fairly minor. They're in 5.5. I have two (also bug fixes) that I expect will get in now.
!!!!
shoot him for being talkative ... it's a good job I will never meet some of these people ... wanker ...
 
lol. Teh Internetz
I doubt many people would act as tough without the safety of being behind a screen
 
I think I had been hanging around for a few months and I offered to rewrite APC and it was graciously accepted by rasmus ... which is pretty normal, if you offer up time, people are pretty damn gracious ...
 
@JoeWatkins What's Andrea talking about here exactly??
 
it's a female, that's right ... I made that mistake a few weeks ago when she first showed up again ...
we were just talking about how crap news.php.net is, both server and client ... she said she was thinking about rewriting some of it ... then ^^ happened ...
 
8:30 PM
@JoeWatkins well, at the beginning I thought Nikita would be female xD
 
Yes it's much easier to assume not in our profession
 
innocent mistake, not being sexist, luckily, programmers are logical enough that mistaken females should understand it ...
 
@JoeWatkins well, the only logical is the code I write ;-P
 
I don't think you can program for too long without logic encroaching on your entire outlook on everything, possibly subconsciously, but it occurs all the same ...
 
Agree. I still watch some basketball training sessions while I am injured. Recently I can't help but compare our plays to patterns.
Trying to find the logic in all the movements.
 
8:36 PM
This is going to make me look like a noob, but what's wrong with this loop? for($players as $player)
{
echo "<tr>";
echo "<td>";
echo $player->getName();
echo "</td></tr>";
} it spits out: Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_AS, expecting ';'
 
@VoidWhisperer foreach instead of for.
 
lol
 
I should get points for that quote or something ...
 
ohhh... yeah i knew that was gonna make me look like a dumbass. xD
 
8:36 PM
Also the whole echoing HTML could be considered "wrong"
 
@VoidWhisperer No prob. For the record, Googling "Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_AS, expecting" yields results that answer the question; namely the first one.
 
Ah. ok.
 
If you get an error, Google it. Not that we don't like helping, but syntax errors are typically solvable in a few minutes seconds :-)
 
s/seconds/milliseconds
 
I'm working a tooltip thing in java.. i should probably just use bootstrap..
it would make my site look less ugly xD
What's the opinion here on bootstrap, out of curiosity?
 
8:39 PM
@JoeWatkins What I meant is that Coffee vs JS is not like Dart vs JS, in that Coffee is designed (badly) specifically to "compile" to JS (badly), but Dart is designed to have its own VM, but also compiles to JS as an intermediate solution to allow people to adopt it now. Which of course they aren't doing, but it's still a nice idea in theory.
 
dude thats not java, calling javascript java can get you shot around these parts ...
 
javascript*
That was an unintentional error on my part
considering i do both java and javascript. haha
 
As opposed to all those intentional errors you make?
 
...
I didn't mean to type java
 
it can't really get you shot anyway ... relax
 
8:40 PM
:-P
 
I might take up acting ...
 
We call intentional errors "naming conventions" around here.
 
It might in room 17. Here we'll just knife you a bit
 
So back to my question: opinion on bootstrap?
 
knife you a bit lol
stab you in the arse or something ...
lol
 
8:41 PM
waiting on an answer to his question still damnnit xD
 
@VoidWhisperer V2? I use it for internal admin panels. V3? I wouldn't use it if you threw money at me.
 
Whatever floats your boat
@VoidWhisperer You actually might be better asking that in room 17
 
What's the different between v2 and v3?
 

JavaScript

Topic: Anything JavaScript, ECMAScript including Node, React, ...
 
@DanLugg What did they do in V3 that makes you hate it so?
 
8:42 PM
@VoidWhisperer Look it up.
@cspray Not everything in life has to be dimensionless pastel colors.
 
jesus
 
@DanLugg I didn't choose the pastel life; the pastel life chose me.
 
v3 is ugly LOL
 
@cspray lol
 
@DanLugg I am actually using it with a tf2 server control panel I am coding.. so i guess it works :P
 
8:43 PM
@DanLugg (╯°□°)╯$$
 
quick question, can anybody point to me an example why Prepared statements is better than mysql_real_Escape_string? reading this but there is no example SQL injection instance that can demonstrate it stackoverflow.com/questions/2353666/…
 
@cspray I blame Windows 8. For everything. My personal debt. My borderline alcoholism.
 
@cspray You're a married man now. It's all beige from here on in.
 
@DaveRandom Implying you aren't married? :P
 
@DaveRandom Hah! The wife is actually a graphic designer so I can get all colorful with it.
 
8:44 PM
@DanLugg How about Windows 8?
 
@DaveRandom I blame Windows 8 for Windows 8?
 
If you get my drift
 
@VoidWhisperer I'm not married...
 
Ah.
xD
I'm not either.. although that's probably because I am 16 :P
 
I hate that emoticon. The XD.
 
8:45 PM
XDXDXDXD? :P
 
Ugh, I hate seeing that somebody is 16 and thinking to myself "I am almost twice as old as this person"
 
Yea. That one.
 
fuuuuuuuu
 
Wasn't xD the Korean version of lol?
 
@cspray errr sorry.. I guess? O.o
 
8:46 PM
@VoidWhisperer Not your fault ;)
 
@Fabien That is lacist
 
I dunno, but it makes me think of South Park. And I like South Park. But often people use it when saying something stupid. So it makes me like South Park less. And I like to like South Park. Quick fucking with South Park.
 
lol
 
wonders off to go look up the different parts of bootstrap
 
I don't remember a single thing I done when I was 16 ...
 
8:47 PM
Oh apparently it's a face. XD Crossed eyes and a big smile.
 
must have been great ...
 
Sign of a mis well spent youth
 
TIL XD is a face.
 
is it bad if i want to basically get everyone that uses IE off the internet?
 
I remember 16 pretty well, it was awesome.
Sex and alot of pot.
Then for awhile it was just alot of pot.
 
8:49 PM
>.>
 
Also the pimples
 
16 was awesome here too… had more time to program than today :-/
 
I remember smoke. And this weird sticky green stuff. Either I sneezed in a fire or I was baked.
 
I've done neither of those #nerd
 
a lot :)
 
8:49 PM
Never got acne (as bad as so many people I know did).
 
@DanLugg You lucky dog
 
@DanLugg You had a much better early adulthood than me.
 
In fact, I'm pretty sure I get pimples at the same frequency now as I did then.
 
not a single memory ...
 
I still do acne periodically, it sucks. They said I would grow out of it, they lied to me :-(
 
8:50 PM
either unimportant, or great ...
 
@JoeWatkins That's what you get for clearing the cache.
 
I don';t get anywhere near as many. If I binge eat chocolate I break out.
 
@DaveRandom yeah I know a couple of blokes that do ...
 
@JoeWatkins Maybe you were in Men in Black?
 
Fortunately I got a nice beard to cover up 1/3 my face too.
 
8:51 PM
Anyone here who has used bootstrap: Is there any further documentation of bootstrap other than the crap that they shoved onto the website
?
 
@VoidWhisperer Well, the documentation is pretty good actually. And since the site is built with bootstrap, you can just inspect the source/DOM to see whatever you like.
 
I know.. although some of it could be better documented.. the classes atleast
 
@DaveRandom well that's what I'm gonna tell people from now on ... and put it on my cv ... "12-16 worked for super secret government agency, with Will Smith" ...
 
css class*
 
Damn it I went for a job interview before, the guy has just sent me the programming task and now I'm far too shattered to make sense of it and come up with something decent :-(
 
8:53 PM
What was/is the programming task?
 
@DaveRandom the most complex thinking can occur upon physical exhaustion ...
 
@DaveRandom How as the interview though? Good if you got the task I guess.
 
@JoeWatkins It can also occur on LSD :D
 
@DaveRandom Also, let the motivation of handing your notice in empower you!
 
@VoidWhisperer really. It can not
 
8:54 PM
@VoidWhisperer no, it can't ... try it ...
 
@DaveRandom Don't feel bad. I went to an interview last Friday, they didn't even look at my code. Based everything of verbal explanation. Needless to say I was not on point enough to land the position. Better luck to you though.
 
@VoidWhisperer I was about to post some details on here but the internet remembers all and I don't want to get penalised for cheating (especially since I shouldn't need to cheat)
 
@Dave stay up, the time the test was sent is not likely accidental now is it ...
 
Yeah, hammer out tasks.
Is the task at least interesting?
 
@DaveRandom they defiantly did that on purpose.
 
8:55 PM
I dunno I've had some pretty deep and sensible realizations with LSD.
But I was talking to a mannequin or something.
 
Drugs are bad mkkkay.
 
you can tell us after ... I wanna know now ... because I'm a curious ape ...
 
@Fabien o_0...
 
anyways...
xD
 
define('LSD', rand(0, PHP_INT_MAX))
 
8:57 PM
@Fabien Hard to say. I didn't feel that great about it but then I don't function well in interviews (who does, right?) so it's pretty hard to gauge. Like you say I suppose the fact that they gave me the task is positive though
 
@DanLugg Wat
 
@JoeWatkins But... but... your name's not George!
 
@DaveRandom Shut up! And put your yellow hat back on!
 
@DaveRandom I think poor functioning interviews can be a sign of a good developer :P
 
Hummm, mundane application business logic prototype hats on...
 
8:59 PM
Why'd they call him the man in the yellow hat? His whole outfit was yellow!
 
Sounds boring.
 
@cspray I need more beige! now!
 
Anyone know an alternative to the <a> tag?
 
wtf
 
o.O
 
8:59 PM
@NoahHuppert <b>
 

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