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6:00 PM
@bwoebi would you mind helping me out ? I have no fricking clue as to whats happening :(
 
@KodeSeeker no, I actually don't have chroot jails, basedir restrictions etc. on my server; and won't give someone I never heard of until today access to my server, sorry.
 
@bwoebi understandable. thanks though
nm
 
@KodeSeeker what is your server requirements? what are you trying to test? (although i wont be giving you access, i could check if there is something i can come up with)
 
evening chaps ...
@ircmaxell you steaming drunk and crawling about the floor yet ?
 
nope
 
6:04 PM
@reikyoushin basically this is the problem stackoverflow.com/questions/18865077/…
 
still working ?
 
I really dont need access if you can help me with where Im going wrong
:)
 
@JoeWatkins yup
 
your boss is being mean ... this is a big day for the universe, there will never be another @ircmaxell turning 30 again for the rest of time ... worth celebrating, I think ...
 
@JoeWatkins he told me to take the month off. I said no :-P
 
6:06 PM
@KodeSeeker cse591.host56.com and this error is thrown because?
are you trying to fopen using an external url? its a curl error? hmm..
 
happy birthday, @ircmaxell :D
 
I always go a bit mad on my birthday and am usually wasted by 4pm ... it only happens once a year .... so does every other day of the year, but my peers are not that observant, so I mostly get away with it ...
 
@CarrieKendall Thanks!!!
 
millionth view for your bday, what good timing
 
I'm 30 soon, I saw @PeeHaa is too, bout 6 months for me too ... I'll be interested to see what happens to you, if your picture changes to a guy in a cardigan, or a guy shaking a remote control at a television, I'll be worried ...
 
6:09 PM
well, a day early, but yeah :-P
 
@KodeSeeker is curl installed on that server?
 
@JoeWatkins that's worth doing just to fulfill that joke! :-P
 
@KodeSeeker or you could try a free account here: byethost.com/index.php/free-hosting since it is just for testing purposes right?
 
@reikyoushin sorry about the delay
How can I check whether curl is installed or not?
 
6:13 PM
you think 30 is old enough to start referring to people as "whipper-snappers" ?
 
@reikyoushin actually the place Ive currently hosted my stuff is a free site too
 
no, but I will anyway
 
@KodeSeeker phpinfo();
 
@reikyoushin:11868944 cse591.host56.com/info.php
I printed out phpinfo there^
 
cURL support enabled
just use strg + f ;)
 
6:14 PM
I dunno, I think I can justify it, had to jump over a neighbours gate today, she locked herself out ... I suddenly realized I can no longer jump without hurting my ankles ... if a whipper-snapper is not someone who can jump without hurting their ankles then what is a whipper-snapper ...
 
someone who can snap a whip?
 
@Recode didnt get you?
 
@KodeSeeker hm?
 
@igorw: just start a twitter account @shitphpinternalssays
3
 
6:16 PM
ah, DJ, that reminds me ... you can deffo start calling night clubs disco's ...
 
@Recode you said "just use strg + f ;)". I didnt get that?
did you mean Ctrl+F?
to find cURL?
 
or just @ohonphpinternals
 
@crypticツ I choose "a young child that likes to beat elderly people with sticks" as my new definition ...
 
@JoeWatkins, that sounds interesting. Just don't expect me to wear the parachute pants. I'll save those for you
 
@KodeSeeker yes, so you could have found curl enabled yourself ;)
 
6:19 PM
Now, back to the OAuth piece of my project. BLAH the google provided PHP library is failing me. I've been working at it for days too. Now to try something. Thinking HybridAuth, any thoughts from anyone?
 
@Recode yes I did. :P . I just posted the link here coz I had phpinfo posted as a page anyways
 
@TechHeadDJ what's the problem with google's oauth?
 
0
Q: Did work, now it doesn't, oauth 2.0 no user data

TechHeadDJHere's my dilemma in a nutshell. Working on Google OAuth2, setting up Sign in with Google, I didn't use access_type='offline' before. Now I do, set up to store refresh variable in a table, and the refresh worked, for a moment. Now I can not sign in. This is my first real venture into using OAuth2...

That
it could simply be my inexperience
however, i'm a one man dev team with a deadline
 
@TechHeadDJ Please include reproducible snippets of code that shows your problem in the question
 
6:22 PM
Doing that usually solves the question itself (as it forces you to zoom in on the problem which is when you find it)
@TechHeadDJ No one will download a zip file of your project to see what your problem is.
 
I know, which is why I also posted up the two php files
snippets are harder to do because the thing does touch so many places
 
@TechHeadDJ Then I smell that your architecture needs retouching :P
 
It all comes down to unable to get the user data after getting a session variable with the access token
i get the token, but i get no user data
and if i had more knowledge of OAuth, I may be able to do more. i just don't have the time or resources to learn more
 
@TechHeadDJ Also, just a note, I don't know which database API you use, but you should learn about SQL injenction and prepared statements.
I myself have no deep knowledge of OAuth (sadly), but I can try to help you debug it for yourself.
Try making the absolute bare minimum snippet of code for it to work.
For instance, take the example Google provides in their documentation
 
I plan on coming back and working with these statements. I have some sanitation, I just haven't added it to these yet because all the data is coming as strings from Google's DB, and I don't know what strings I may escape personally that Google does
 
6:29 PM
If that doesn't work either, the problem's not in your code.
@TechHeadDJ Prepared Statements is not about sanitation or escaping.
The side effect is that they completely nullify SQL injection risks
 
Whenever you have parameters, you should be using prepared statements.
If you're still learning, I recommend you learn PDO instead of MySQLi.
 
@reikyoushin nope but seems very relevant. Let me take a look. Weird my search never returned it
 
Yes, I am still learning, but the downside, I need a phase1 product in under two weeks
 
@TechHeadDJ don't trust input from another website, also google could hack you^^
 
6:31 PM
@Recode NSA could. XP
 
NSA already does.....
 
true story, unfortunately
 
Anyway, I plan on coming back and revamping, cleaning, increasing security, I just don't have time for phase 1
hd validation, prepared statements, pdo vs mysqli, increasing sanitation, etc
tons on my todo list, but the face is what the admins care about the most, and dang they push me that way
 
@TechHeadDJ you should do this at the beginning, doing it later, you could miss some areas
 
I know, but when boss says "focus here, we're not likely to be hacked" what do you say?
 
6:34 PM
@TechHeadDJ You prove him that every 14 year old n00b can hack into your site pretty dang easily
 
"nobody cares about us, our firewall is hardly ever hit" "it hasn't happened before, why worry now" mentality
 
That "Not likely" can easily be turned into "You're being sued because someone stole my information"
 
Yup
 
@TechHeadDJ just look at examples, sony, vodafone, ...
 
You don't have to be large and known to get hacked.
 
6:35 PM
that's what i would tell him
 
trust me, i know, and i'm going to come back and make right after phase 1 a big upscale in security, verification, etc
things that the admin who only know what they see, give a different under the hood focus since they'll get to see their pretty paint job
 
brb switching to Linux
 
Hey guys, I need help. I need two fetch two columns from mysql and one will be empty. I need to get the value of the column that has a value and add something infront of it conditionally. I don't want to use php since there will be a lot of rows in the result. So something like select colresult from (Select col1, col2 FROM table ). If col1 has result I need it to return hello+'colresult' if col2 I need bye+'colresult'. Get the idea? Or is this too much trouble/not possible and should loop w/ php
 
ok, since don't have time to learn all the in's and out's of code-it-yourself google.php Google_Client.php and etc
 
In another example
select col1,col2 FROM table
gives results
1 NULL
Null 2
and then filter and add to those to have mysql return
hello1
bye2
 
6:38 PM
hybridauth here i come
 
@Darius have a look at mysql's IF-function and CONCAT
 
@Recode thanks.
 
@bwoebi Those comments seem extremely short sighted.
 
@Orangepill yeah… ._.
 
6:49 PM
@bwoebi I replied.
 
@igorw regarding twitter.com/igorwesome/status/380315053318078464 … how should they work? Do you mean passing some data to all passed Closures or what?
@MadaraUchiha I saw.
 
Sometimes people like that really tick me off
Ready to hold a language advancement because it could be uncomfortable for them if they use it
 
@MadaraUchiha what was also a bit why prop. accessors failed...
 
If you dislike an addition to the language, just don't fucking use it
 
Amen
 
user895378
6:52 PM
<-- still glad property accessors failed :)
 
I would understand if there was some sort of BC change, or if the language was altered somehow, or if it would promote lazy/bad practices
 
@rdlowrey why?
 
@MadaraUchiha well, sometimes I also wouldn't have to read such code. that's the point where one might be also +1 or -1 on it.
 
user895378
@Orangepill Because OOP is about black boxes and messages between those black boxes -- not mutability and exposing object innards to the outside world. That's what accessors do.
 
@rdlowrey Remind me the accessors thingy? I wasn't active in internals at the time
 
6:54 PM
Ahh love if statements in mysql.. got it working. Thanks @Recode
 
@rdlowrey Is there somewhere written that we can use classes only for OOP?
 
user895378
@bwoebi I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that :)
 
@rdlowrey well, I said that. Seriously. When we use a class as an enum, this is also not OOP.
 
user895378
@MadaraUchiha It was just a way to automate exposing get* and set* methods.
 
user895378
@bwoebi But you don't need accessors for that.
 
6:56 PM
@rdlowrey You mean automagic getProperty without actually implementing it?
 
@rdlowrey I hate the unreadable shit my __get and __set magic methods are sometimes.
 
user895378
@MadaraUchiha more or less.
 
@rdlowrey I see, I would have voted against too if I could :D
 
@MadaraUchiha just read the RFC…
 
user895378
@bwoebi The __get and __set methods aren't the problem. It's the magic.
 
6:57 PM
@rdlowrey Okay... I can understand why you that got shut down
 
@rdlowrey well, __get and __set are also magic…
 
user895378
@bwoebi That's my point.
 
user895378
__get and __set only serve to obfuscate code.
 
user895378
try {
    $data = $obj->propertyName;
} catch (Exception $e) {}
 
user895378
^^ How is that a good idea?
 
user895378
6:58 PM
Maintainability isn't about you understanding the code.
 
throwing an exception in getters or setters is a shitty idea, generally.
 
user895378
Maintainability is about making the intent and side effects of your code painfully obvious to someone who's never seen it before.
 
user895378
Magic only hampers that goal.
 
		register_tick_function(function() {
			static $func, $memdata;
			$bt = debug_backtrace(DEBUG_BACKTRACE_IGNORE_ARGS);
			if (((string)$func) != ($func = @$bt[1]["class"].@$bt[1]["type"].@$bt[1]["function"])) {
				$memdata = ["real" => memory_get_usage(true) - @$memdata["real"], "emalloc" => memory_get_usage(false) - @$memdata["emalloc"]];
				$file = isset($bt[0]["file"], $bt[0]["line"])?$bt[0]["file"].":".$bt[0]["line"]:"";
				fwrite(STDERR, "BT{{$name}}: (MEM: real: ".$memdata["real"]." & total: ".convert_bytes(memory_get_usage(true))." | emalloc: ".$memdata["emalloc"]." & total: ".co
 
user895378
7:01 PM
All that said, everything in PHP is already mutable by default, so accessors would have just been a drop in the bucket I guess. It wouldn't have been the end of the world, but I'm glad they didn't pass the vote.
 
that's how I track code when I'm lost…
 
For those interested, MySQL Workbench 6.0.7 is available. I didn't realize they finally pushed out a new version.
 
with this tick function above I see when I enter at getter or setter. So it unobfuscates code for me…
 
@Darius you're welcome :)
 
7:05 PM
@rdlowrey Curious; so because of PHP's mutability, we shouldn't have immutability?
 
user895378
@DanLugg I didn't say that -- I'd love to see a native immutable type (like tuples). You're just fighting an uphill battle with immutability in PHP.
 
user895378
value objects FTW ...
 
I blogged about Design Patterns... http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2013/09/beyond-design-patterns.html
 
@rdlowrey I'm just trying to understand why you're glad the vote didn't pass on accessors/mutators.
 
user895378
@DanLugg In a nutshell? Because accessors promote object mutability (a very poor OO practice).
 
7:08 PM
is this the one that we are referring to wiki.php.net/rfc/propertygetsetsyntax-as-implemented
 
posted on September 18, 2013 by Paul M. Jones

The Aura “system” package, which combines a system skeleton and the Aura libraries into a full-stack framework, was released today at 1.0.0 stable. This makes it formally ready for production use (although it has been in production use informally for … Continue reading →

 
@rdlowrey Well, arguably they also promote immutability when dealing with reference types.
 
@ircmaxell Happy birthday!
 
user895378
@DanLugg Please explain further.
 
@rdlowrey public function get name() { return $this->_name; } -- note the absence of a mutator.
Of course, that's only part of it, and we can get away with getName()...
 
7:11 PM
Wait
 
Thanks!
 
Vote says it got accepted into 5.5, is that not the case?
 
@DanLugg except that I can reflect that to bypass it
 
@ircmaxell Because PHP ;-)
 
@MadaraUchiha no, didn't
 
7:12 PM
@MadaraUchiha 67% are required (not 50%)
 
Huh
Interesting
 
user895378
@DanLugg I get that, but the point of objects isn't to expose information about what's inside to the rest of the world. 99% of accessor usages in the wild would've turned the objects into glorified bundles of publicly mutable state.
 
@MadaraUchiha Because it's a language change…
 
@ircmaxell That’s a great post. I’ll be writing an answer tonight. ;-)
 
@bwoebi So additions require 50%?
 
user895378
@DanLugg Would it make creating immutable value objects with auto-getters more pleasant? Sure, but I'd rather explicitly add the method myself and not have most PHPers using the feature to crank out OO abominations.
 
@rdlowrey Well, 99% of PHP's usage is WordPress.
2
(note: statistics not accurate)
 
@MadaraUchiha well, new simple functions (e.g. array_column) only need 50%, yes
 
lol
@DanLugg more like (note: statistics pulled out of my a$$)
 
@DanLugg not accurrate… LOL
 
user895378
7:15 PM
array_column annoys me so much ...
 
Later, amigos :)
@rdlowrey I voted No on it :)
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison peace out, yo
 
@rdlowrey has too less use cases to need to be in core… yes
 
I think to be pragmatic, you need to draw a line somewhere. Have I done what is necessary for my object to be immutable under reasonable circumstances? Yes. Like a warranty; if you runkit or reflect or submerge the object in water, the warranty may not cover it.
 
@LeviMorrison laterz
Pro-tip: you don't need immutability to make your objects not change. All you need to do is not change them!
 
7:16 PM
@ircmaxell well .. his point was "oh, a topic that will attract clicks, lets try to milk it"
2
 
@rdlowrey hm, why?
 
@rdlowrey If you need array_column, you need an object, period.
That's what people mean when they say PHP has no direction.
 
@tereško yeah... which is why I'm basically ignoring it. I may reply to his to indicate something (that mine was more of a thought exercise than doctrine, but...
 
On the one hand, people want to push the advanced OOP stuff, on the other hand, we get this.
@ircmaxell you have a typo in your blog post
 
If you need array_column, you should be using array_map... And if you need to deal with keys...
@MadaraUchiha I'm sure I have many
 
user895378
7:19 PM
@igorw I just don't think it should be in core because (1) do we really need more array_* functions? (2) If you're using crazy multidimensional arrays in that manner your code is most likely foobar in the first place and should be refactored -- I see it as a language-level crutch to mitigate bad code design
 
> Instead of breaking the patterns around "what" the problem is, let's try breaking it around "why" 0the problem is happening in the first place.
 
:-D
 
0THE!
 
fixed
 
@rdlowrey 2D arrays are still okay. but if it gets too 4D arrays… then I'm just
 
7:20 PM
also, his book is horrible
 
@ircmaxell cheers
img7.joyreactor.com/pics/post/auto-237777.jpeg Alright, it's taking up too much space for the image parsing.
There are real gems there ^ :D
 
user895378
> Worry about understanding abstraction and communication.
 
user895378
^^ That!
 
Happy birthday grumpy @ircmaxell :D
 
@rdlowrey you're implying data is evil and must always be hidden. besides, you often also deal with collections of objects, in which case array_* functions are still very valuable.
 
7:23 PM
@MadaraUchiha OH GOOD LORD+++++
 
@ircmaxell COCKSLAP!!!
 
@Ocramius grumpy?
 
I've spent too much time getting functional brainwashed. :)
 
user895378
@igorw Not sure I see how much array_* will help you in that situation? IMO if you're dealing with a collection of objects you should create a userland type (in the absence of generics).
 
@ircmaxell you're always grumpy :D
 
7:24 PM
ummmmmmmmmmmmm
 
user895378
Lately I do really like using __invoke to combine the type-safety of class names with functional concepts ...
 
So, how old are you now? 45? :P
 
@Ocramius 30
 
user895378
Maybe it's just because my functional-fu is weak, but I like the readability of typehints in functional signatures.
 
I use the callable typehint like it's going out of style
@brandonsavage curious, but I think it's a post that should be spurring questions, not answers...
let's see how he responds to that
not well... whatever
 
7:33 PM
lol
Just let him be
 
need moar book advertisement
 
holy crap, Google Now just wished me a happy birthday. Through Glass. With a big picture of a cake and everything. Awesome
Oh, @hakre did you want to meet up while I am in Frankfurt/Mainz?
 
@ircmaxell :O screenshot possible?
Or... glassshot, or whatever?
 
nah, this is something that really should be experienced. I won't cheapen it :-P
 
posted on September 18, 2013 by Anthony Ferrara

Many people teach design patterns as a fundamental step to Object Oriented Programming. They are so universally seen as important that almost every single conference that I have been to has had at least one talk about them. They are quite often used as interview questions to test a candidate's OOP knowledge. However, just like inheritance, they are not needed for OOP. And just like inheritance,

 
7:38 PM
you're late to the party! :-P
 
@ircmaxell Grammar fix:
> Now, there definite is a few "stretches" in there.
> Now, there definite are a few "stretches" in there.
 
fixed, and thanks!
when I do get around to writing my book, I'm going to have to pay you all as reviewers
 
I'd rather be a spy, can I be a spy ?
 
you can be a spy
 
If you are going to pay anyone, pay one of my friends who has her degree in English and has tons of experience editing technical papers :)
 
7:49 PM
I will do that as well
I will pay everyone! $0.01 per hour!!!
I never said I paid well...
 
@ircmaxell sure why not :)
 
Well, I will be in Frankfurt on Sunday for like 7 hours, and then Mainz on the 8th for like 5 hours...
 
@ircmaxell wait, you're in the area? :O
 
@Ocramius I have trouble keeping track of everyone's areas, what's your area again?
 
well, Frankfurt :P
 
7:52 PM
then, yes, I am in your area twice
 
twice? next WE I will be in HH
 
Well, I have a 9 hour layover on Sunday, and a 7 hour one on the 8th
so yes, twice :-P
 
I will have to do 500 hours spying for a single bottle of $5 martini ... still I have a bonafide reason to refer to my office as "the lair", so I'm in ...
 
@Ocramius: When is the PHP BBQ in FFM?
 
@JoeWatkins Oh, the spying rate is even less. It's $0.001 per hour. And I only pay for hours where you're communicating useful information. So yeah...
 
7:55 PM
@hakre 2 weeks ago :P
I almost missed it myself =_=
 
oO
damn. I missed it.
 
heh
mattsches passed by though
 
@ircmaxell in that case, I resign ... making me an x-spy, which is even cooler ...
I'm now available for proof reading work ...
I'm not getting much work done ...
 
@JoeWatkins sorry, burn schedule Alpha is in place. feel free to resign, but think about what that means first...
 
Hello
 
8:02 PM
Hello @Fabian
 
@rdlowrey defining your own collection types is kind of backwards. if the traversable abstraction worked properly I'd care less. abusing objects just because you want type hints doesn't seem right.
 
This is awesome: placekitten.com
7
 
Hehe @Ocramius but I think all know this site.
 
@Ocramius :o what a find
 
Where have I been the last hears?
:S
I'm gonna implement it in OcraLoremModule asap
 
8:05 PM
@Ocramius are you coming to HH?
 
placehold.it has been replaced!
 
@hakre HH?
 
@Ocramius sweet
 
phpunconf
 
What is HH?
 
8:06 PM
nope :(
 
@Ocramius Old though :P
 
@Ocramius remembers me @LeviMorrison 's avatar…
 
@hakre I am already going to 4 conferences before the end of the year... guess that's enuff for now :)
 
@Ocramius where?
 
but I really want to join the unconf next year
 
8:08 PM
I hate spam. But what I hate more is spam in a language I don't understand :-/
 
@Ocramius well, sounds like a tight shedule.
 
@bwoebi you don't understand english?
 
@bwoebi That's because that's how I found my gravatar :)
 
we can go into an italian restaurant with anthony then in oct :)
 
@MaciejCzyżewski zendcon, ipc, zendcon europe, sf warsaw
@hakre harhar
 
8:09 PM
@MaciejCzyżewski I do. But not something like indian or whatever these chars are (and no, won't google translate this xD)
 
@Ocramius "sf in Warsaw" ooo In my country :-D
 
@LeviMorrison oh lol ;-)
 
@bwoebi I think want was right ;)
 
@Recode no. *tret*
 
@bwoebi how about *kick* ;P
 
8:11 PM
@Recode bah, that's English ^^
 
@bwoebi a language u don't understand? ;P
 
@Recode try _*kick*_
 
@bwoebi thanks.
 
Hey what's new?
 
does someone remember the link to the php application that interfaces with some database and ships with a bootstrap + X interface all ready to configure copy over when done thingy?
Like setup your database form / editor in 2 minutes?
 
8:17 PM
mhm
MVC + ORM?
 
not terms / abbrevations. Just a complete, ready made application.
Something new and cool.
And it's done. It's already programmed. Zero programming, just interfacing with the database, it then creates a phar or zip you can copy over to live. done.
was posted here in chat the last 7 days or so.
but I only remember that there was some video on their homepage and not the name nor did I place a bookmark.
 
Mhm. I don't remember that. In this case, I have the same question becouse it's interesting ^^
 
remember who posted it?
 
8:36 PM
 
110" of windows, what a nightmare
 
@Ocramius like his one? theoldreader.com/kittens
 
nice
 
@Ocramius Nice to see you here. Got a recommendation earlier to ask you about Doctrine stuff as you're in the dev team.
IIRC
 
8:42 PM
@kaiser shoot
 
@Ocramius Got a decent problem with the CouchDB ODM Bundle.
 
hmm, not that I've used the couchdb odm :)
 
Guess it's not mainly a CouchDB, but more a Doctrine plain-PHP configuration issue :)
The autoloading of the Annotation files happens "silently" and I don't get real errors (probably because of the Reflection magic stuff). So I don't really know where to start debugging (again).
 
what's the "error" (if any)
 
None. 500/internal server error :/
Happens when I first call the definition class for the table with all the Annotations with DirectoryManager#getRepository(). Happens as well if I just call the new Foo, then use DirectoryManager#persist().
 
8:48 PM
Good luck with problem @Ocramius and @kaiser. I must go bye! See you soon.
 
Thanks :)
@Ocramius I was/am knee deep in Doctrine and CouchDB core and was able to track all the things down to the AnnotationRegistry. Then somewhere in Doctrine/Common(IIRC), in the loadAnnotationClass( $class ), things start failing hardly.
 
well, I'd first turn on a couple of debug flags to see actually some shit on the screen, no? :)
is it a SF2.3 setup?
 
Silex
 
So a guy is asking for help with something ... I can never quite get over that this sort of thing works ... pastebin.com/U51Utm0A ...
 
Aren't HTTP 500 returned when some some unhandled exception occurs?
 
8:50 PM
@Ocramius Well, I phone home from Chrome to PHPStorm, set breakpoints, etc. But the thing that worked best in this case was plain and stupid var_dump()ing the output. Pastie of the method maybe explains better what's going on.
 
@kaiser I know this one... what's wrong with it?
try using
    AnnotationRegistry::registerLoader(
        function ($className) {
            return class_exists($className);
        }
    );
that's basically "please ignore anything, just try autoloading it"
 
Ok. So far I was trying it to it that way:
$loader = new ClassLoader( $nameSpace, $includePath );
$loader->register();
AnnotationRegistry::registerLoader( array( $loader, 'loadClass' ) );
Which didn't work well.
The other thing I tried was using AnnotationRegistry::registerAutoloadNamespaces() and the singular variant.
@Ocramius First: Thanks for the hint. Will try that. Second: I'm currently ripping things down and putting them back together just to make sure it's no problem caused by missing parts from composer.
 
assuming you're using composer's autoloader, and you can manually instantiate the annotation classes that are causing the failure, the method above should work
 
Am I crazy, or is AOP not necessary...
 
@Ocramius ...
honestly? damn it... if that works, you may feel loved. from a distance.
 
8:58 PM
@ircmaxell it may be necessary in some cases tbh. But most cases that come into my mind are about already existing objects
(basically legacy code)
 
cases where a decorator can't be effective?
 
yep
cases where you cannot introduce a decorator because shit happened
 
And if so, that's akin to automated monkey patching. Which is fine if you use Ruby. But frowned upon by any other OO language
 
well, AOP is not OO
 

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