« first day (594 days earlier)      last day (4353 days later) » 

user895378
11:01 PM
Man, I really need to stop writing tests until I've settled firmly on an implementation. I've spent a metric ton of time rewriting tests today that were originally written when the system under test was still evolving.
 
@tereško What's wrong with it.
 
That was a cv-pls request, not a question
 
11:16 PM
and it was closed on the grounds of:
20
Q: Should we close 'fix my program' questions

RosinanteRecently, I've seen many questions with this structure: a wall of code a request for the community to debug it by inspection You can find a nice selection here. I offer, as a thesis, that these questions are not consistent with the stated goals of SO. They do not, usually, create a resource ...

 
@RepWhoringPeeHaa , lol
 
and someone should school this guy : stackoverflow.com/questions/10858518/… .. i heard that @stevether was eager to help newbies
 
@rdlowrey Ask her to send some promotional DVDs, it's cooler than torrents ;)
 
11:27 PM
@tereško I'm curious about:
There are solutions to trigger a PHP script the moment an E-Mail comes in - no need for daemons. Maybe I can find a link — Pekka 1 min ago
 
yeah , but it feels like a serverfault thing
 
@tereško I try not to confuse novice questions with bad quality questions
Everyone has to start somewhere
 
and i tend not to confuse novice question with "heres my c0dez , fix this , tnx bye"
 
He had isolated the problem in his code, just didn't know how to fix it.
 
which is the he-who-you-are-talking-about ?
 
11:33 PM
@tereško wrong quotes
 
also , SO is not a debugging service , his question has not transcending value and no description of problem
 
Even if that is a "novice question," it's essentially just a debugging request
 
I really don't get why people can't debug their PHP themselves
 
also, unformatted code :/
 
@NikiC , a distant reference to he-who-must-not-be-named
 
11:35 PM
I mean, if they were programming C and had to gdb through core dumps and stack traces, sure, I understand that a newbie doesn't manage it.
But in PHP...
 
@NikiC , well .. there are exceptions
getting "Error in line 0" might be confusing and misleading
 
Yes
But even that by now is well covered
 
@NikiC That's like asking why people don't fix their own cars when they break down; Some people can do it, others cannot
 
@orourkek Not really
That's entirely different
 
And there are even licensed mechanics who can't fix certain problems
not really at all
 
11:36 PM
@orourkek , if you cannot fix the car , then you do not work as the mechanic
 
I'm not advocating on behalf of these people, just saying that debugging isn't a natural process, it's learned
 
The skills to drive a car and to fix a car are on a very different level
On the other hand the skill level for programming in PHP and debugging your PHP is the same.
 
now you're just debating miniscule semantics to invalidate my point
NOT true
at all
 
to be honest , debugging isn't really covered in php books , at least not in a way that would be helpful
 
It's not miniscule semantics, it's a large difference :)
@tereško That's probably because debugging in PHP to the most part is trivial
You normally even don't need a debugger
 
11:38 PM
@NikiC The "art" of debugging isn't learned overnight. It sucks that everyone doesn't know it, but it's not something that's natural to everyone
Trivial to you, but there was a time when even you didn't know how to do it
thats all I'm saying
 
@orourkek And that's what I don't get. How a programmer can't debug.
 
@NikiC Maybe they're not a programmer
 
Now we come back to the car metaphor. Think of those people as drivers, whereas those who can debug are mechanics
 
@orourkek , you have to distinguish between "does not work because of fatal error" and "output is wrong"
 
Really, I understand that people can't debug C applications, where you really need some expertise to figure out how you can get useful data out of a memory dump. But in PHP you can just add a bunch of var_dump calls and you're done
 
11:39 PM
@stevether , then you stop playing around and HIRE a developer
 
@stevether You mean they are programming without programming?
 
@stevether , you can get one for box of beer in university dorms
 
All I mean is that to assume everyone that knows how to type text into an editor should automatically know how to debug PHP errors is a little insane
 
at least for so trivial tasks
 
@tereško Box beer? Like box wine? :P
 
11:40 PM
Because that's all "programming" is, or can be
 
@orourkek , php errors usually come with a line number , while "php error questions" in SO - don't .. strange that
 
"usually"
we're obviously talking about two different breeds of debugging
They're called "novice programmers" for a reason...
 
No
No, no, no
 
i never had that problem
 
It sucks that they can't understand the error messages, but they might not be that easy to understand if you're new to PHP
 
11:43 PM
There is a difference between a novice programmer who just doesn't have the experience yet and someone who wants others to do their job.
 
easily agreeable...
but they can't be lumped into the same group with "why can't people debug?"
 
Because a novice programmer will figure out how to debug his stuff pretty quickly and by himself
 
@NikiC So put a monkey in front of a computer and he'll code Google.
 
@stevether I don't follow your logic
 
@stevether A monkey show not be allowed to code google
imho
 
Nearly 5, i'm off to the weekend!
 
have fun
 
@hakre I love the answer ^^
I didn't even see the link spam at first ^^
 

« first day (594 days earlier)      last day (4353 days later) »