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3:04 PM
wow, I think I've just finished loops
 
Ven
yay gg
 
not sure what to do next
I was thinking tables
 
3:19 PM
hmm or IO, I wanted to do IO for quite some time
anyway I have to head home soon sooo
 
@BartekBanachewicz Do you have experience with game development
 
@Columbo yeah, I worked professionally as a gamedev for quite some time
and I did it as a hobby pretty much the whole time
 
Have you created a multiplayer online game?
I wonder how synchronization across the hosts works.
 
@Columbo depends on the game
 
RPG?
I.e. free movement in a world with interaction between players
 
3:25 PM
like in a MMO?
MMOs are quite complex in that regard
 
@BartekBanachewicz Essentially (I'm thinking specifically of an arena based one)
 
they typically utilize multiple approaches for different aspects of the game
 
send own pos to server, server verifies and sends actual pos to everyone who needs to know...
 
@BartekBanachewicz What about MOBAs?
 
@Columbo a bit simpler
I think it's best to start with edge cases - FPSes on one end, e.g. Chess on another
 
3:26 PM
@ratchetfreak Is a separate server really necessary?
 
no but it creates a central authority
 
@BartekBanachewicz Wait, what?
 
@Columbo FPS games typically tolerate a lot of dropped information. They really only want the latest state, but with minimum latency. Chess, OTOH, require the information to be reproduced perfectly, but latency is mostly irrelevant
MOBAs and MMOs have some elements that require the former, and some that require the latter.
 
turn-based multiplayer is easy, just send the move at the end of the turn to the other player(s)
 
(that's why they're complex, really)
 
3:27 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Ahh, right. I remember this from the networks couse now.
@BartekBanachewicz You're saying different data (with regard to how critical it is) must be streamed differently?
 
@Columbo "Must" is a strong word. "Can benefit from" is more apt.
Certainly critical information, like e.g. player death or a monetary transaction must be deterministic.
 
Right. I guess player movement can be "best effort", while interaction between players must be precise.
 
Yeah, good examples.
With "best effort" there's almost always some sort of prediction and error correction involved as well
 
Actually, it's somewhat simpler for LoL, since movement is handled by clicking on a specific position, so that's transferred to the server and everyone agrees on the path along which a player is walking
 
@Columbo you can't send the target of the movement to everyone, though :)
 
3:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, wait.
Right
:D
The server must determine when you see the enemy?
 
exactly. The clients must only receive what they're allowed to display
 
depends on how much you trust the client though
 
Otherwise you're risking that a malicious player could modify the client to extract that information.
 
Wow, I didn't think of that. I.e. if a player is behind a wall, I cannot let the client of the other player know that
 
if you fully trust it then you can send all positions all the time
 
3:32 PM
@ratchetfreak Oh yeah, well, in hobby or jam projects it's typically fine to ignore
 
but if nearby you may want to let some audio queues play
like footsteps or a spell cast
 
@ratchetfreak yeah, that still opens the game up for cheats
that's how a lot of counter strike cheats work
 
@BartekBanachewicz Are they cheats or just scripts
 
Ven
> you need a std::list<AbstractEntity*> GetEntities() method
STD LIST??? YOU FUCKING WHAT?????
 
but it's information that is important to gameplay and good players will use
 
3:34 PM
^ that
 
Ven
JUST HOW MANY DIFFERENT DRUGS DID MY SCHOOL DO???
 
@Columbo they're illegal modifications to the game, if they e.g. display player outlines behind the walls if the only thing that the player is supposed to get is noise
 
wallhacks, aimbots being the most common cheats
 
@BartekBanachewicz Right, but they use information that the player herself could observe?
 
one solution is to send position data with less accuracy if you only hear the enemy :)
 
3:34 PM
I.e. like sound origins?
 
@Columbo usually not
they use whatever information they can get out of the datastream
 
@Columbo technically, yes, but it's kinda spoiling it if you turn sound cues into transparent walls
LoL only bases that on vision, for example.
 
@BartekBanachewicz but with some statistical analysis based on how the position evolves and when footstep sounds are triggered you would get a pretty accurate final position
 
So you can't e.g. see the level or items of someone you don't see physically in the game world.
@ratchetfreak That's why limiting the information exchange is a part of the solution; preventing modifications is another.
That being said, that level of cheats is mostly important in sport play, casual gamers typically don't need such level of protection. Moreover, they often want to mod the game to their taste.
 
So in theory, the server needs to take both positions of the players and compute whether or not one can see the other
 
3:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz you get game ruining cheaters in every level of muliplayer
 
@Columbo Yep. And basing on that decision, it should determine what information they should receive.
@ratchetfreak Yeah, but e.g. in Factorio it doesn't really matter most of the time.
I mean I'm all for preventing cheating if it spoils the fun for anyone
 
and in factorio every client needs to know the full gameworld anyway
 
Sometimes "cheating" in the form of "modding" is actually what you want, though.
 
because it's a P2P lockstep simulation
 
That is some complex stuff right there. I'll probably just ignore that until it becomes relevant (the best approach to potential issues in computer science :o). Thanks for the insight!
 
3:41 PM
@Columbo if I might give you some advice, it'd be to start with higher-level networking anyway. Something like ICE or ZeroMQ sets the entry level quite low and allows you to focus on important stuff; you can always go lower later.
 
4:00 PM
@Borgleader
-13
Q: Please, help me to decrypt this code javascript

Federico Bobbasomeone could help me, I need absolutely to decrypt this js file, could you help me?, put him on already decrypted, or a site that does that, I am grateful to those who will Link of script crypted javascript is: http://pastebin.com/FEw8YHnG

^^ Malware JS?
 
user406009
@Ven Probably smoking too much Java.
 
user406009
You can tell by the rampant abuse of Abstract and pointers.
 
Ven
@Lalaland actually, c#
 
4:16 PM
> N.B. you can use <debug/vector> and __gnu_debug::vector to use the same types
without _GLIBCXX_DEBUG, so you can mix std::vector and __gnu_debug::vector in
one translation unit (in case that helps analyse it).
cool tip
 
user1804599
I want to make a spreadsheet app.
 
user image
10
I'll just leave this here
 
Ven
@rightfold why would you inflict this upon yourself
 
@Luc c'est kikafésa encore ?
Encore underfoule ou le 18-25
 
@sehe what
 
4:30 PM
 
Ven
MSVC is making progress towards two-phase name lookup - a compiler switch has been added. Need to shake the bugs out, no shipping ETA yet.
IT'S COMING FOR US
 
@AldwinCheung mais comment je saurais
 
Ven
@LucDanton ne traines-tu point sur le 18-25 ?
 
je peux pas je suis trop vieux
 
@Ven Is that the thing that requires adding template and this-> everywhere? That would be nice since it'll make porting to GCC less of a headache if MSVC forces me to do it right in the first place.
 
Ven
4:34 PM
@Mysticial yes
 
4:47 PM
swwwweeeeeeeeeet
 
Ven
WTF. my school wants me to write header-only files, but only for classes starting with I.
4
 
Ell
I'm glad I don't do c++ at uni
 
@BartekBanachewicz daily reminder
> The mansplaining on this goddamn platform. I need a "mute all men" button please @twitter @Support
 
@Ven your school has classes starting with I?
 
Ven
@StackedCrooked if that's a joke on class being a C++ and school word: :\
 
4:56 PM
I was honestly confused at first.
 
I assumed they also forced the dotNet hungarian on you to prefix your interface classes with I
 
user406009
@StackedCrooked Interfaces
 
@Mysticial script crypted javascript. I like that xD
 
@Lalaland Microsoft interfaces, specifically.
 
5:11 PM
@Ven For any kind of school involving programming, frankly, that's pretty fine.
 
Ell
@Puppy it's awful :V
 
compared to the usual development practices endorsed by educational institutions, it's downright majestic
 
user406009
5:53 PM
@Puppy I really wonder why they tend to have such junk development practices
 
user406009
And old and outdated tooling.
 
@Lalaland Because they're very slow to move and adapt.
 
Ell
and computer science is moving very quickly
 
@Ell Software development, you mean.
 
Ell
well both
 
6:03 PM
well no
CS doesn't move that quickly at all
 
Ell
whatever vOv
 
user1804599
6:29 PM
yayyayyay
 
user1804599
generating forms from types :D
 
"... feuert schneller als eine Artilleriebrigade.... und doppelt so schnell!"
Gotta love German dubs in AC
I actually love them, the voices are fantastic
 
Was almost hoping for some drama in here to distract me from doing real work on a friday sad face
 
@Ven Wanna come to our concert tomorrow? We're playing far away from Brittany :p
 
7:42 PM
> The algorithm was implemented in InterLisp because of the flexibility it provides
What am I reading again?
 
Ven
@Morwenn paris? ;)
@Morwenn something from the 80d
80s
 
@Ven Haha, no. Bordeaux.
@Ven 1983, congratulations.
 
Ell
8:03 PM
@rightfold in purescript?
 
Ven
@Morwenn sorry i'm not coming :0
 
@Ven I'm not surprised. I was only teasing you :p
 
nwp
@Morwenn did you implement and benchmark the new existential sort yet?
 
@nwp I don't have the required hardware to test it.
 
Ven
8:12 PM
@Morwenn come to paris and I'll be there :)
 
@Ven First we need to find a concert opportunity which pays anough. Otherwise we're not moving to Paris.
 
Ven
Yup :(
 
I'm tired. I'll sleep a bit.
Later :)
 
Ven
No beers on st patrick's? :o
 
I had a demi at noon.
 
Ven
8:15 PM
Meh.
 
And I'll probably drink enough at the concert tomorrow, especially considering that we drink while playing.
 
8:52 PM
Video games linked to sexism in teenagers: study http://u.afp.com/4Y6V
ban teh games
 
Probably because they are playing video games instead of conversing with those of the opposite sex?
 
@Mikhail Nah, they're playing games instead of reading books.
 
9:13 PM
I think it's a vicious circle thing. Gaming is already a generally sexist environment, so teenagers go in and think that sexist behavior is the "norm" since they see a lot of it.
In turn, they perpetuate that norm.
 
nwp
Horizon: Zero Dawn would be a recent exception to that norm
 
@EtiennedeMartel "Gaming is a sexist environment" - could you give an example?
 
I'm not talking about the games themselves, but rather the community itself.
 
er, no.
whether or not the games themselves are inherently sexist is a completely separate discussion.
 
If you're a man in an online game, people are gonna criticize your play. If you're a woman, people are gonna criticize your gender.
The thrash talk becomes personal the second you start being perceived as a woman.
@Abyx As for examples, there's plenty over there.
You just don't see that kind of behavior if you're a man. It's not the same order of magnitude.
 
9:17 PM
yeah, the "boobs in the "from" field" is a thing
 
But also 12 year old boys calling each other fags in high pitched voices
 
Yeah, isn't that interesting? How not being good at a game is equated to not being a real man? Gaming is full of dudes insecure with their masculinity.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I certainly can see same "fat", "small dick", same fag/manwhore
 
@EtiennedeMartel Honestly, they have good reason to be insecure
 
@Abyx Isn't that interesting how a lot of that focuses on how someone might not live up to a very particular view of masculinity?
You get flamed if you're a woman or not a real man, i.e. a woman.
Hence, sexism.
 
9:20 PM
definitely noticed that
 
yeah it is a sexism
 
@Borgleader
-10
Q: Do posts on here have a political aspect?

Rails KiddieLike, if someone were to say "I have the tiniest violin playing for you" after you noted that you almost starved for half a year, living on one meal a day by necessity because of the actions of some selfish members of the coding community and someone replied that this is not acceptable comment an...

 
I also got for my first time recently somebody being racist against me since I am British
 
@Puppy is British a race now?
 
@Mysticial recursion
 
9:21 PM
Paki I guess?
 
Don't worry Brexit will get rid of them (either British or Pakistanis)
 
nope
 
@Abyx Close enough
 
Thats why I voted No (except I don't live in the UK, and don't have UK citizenship)
 
@Mikhail afaik Pakistanis are coming to UK because it's a former colony, like Algerians are coming to the Northern Algeria
 
9:24 PM
Or rather because the British let them in
 
@Abyx Yes, but it's a race held in British cars. The winner of the race is the one (and there's never more than one) who makes it to the end of the race without the car dying.
 
@EtiennedeMartel anyways, is there a way to fix such sexism? ban games (and all other competitions, chess included)?
 
@Abyx I think not tolerating that kind of behavior and explaining it as "well that's how games are" is a good start.
Whenever we try to excuse all of that, we legimitize it and perpetuate it.
There are ways to thrash talk your opponents without bringing their identity into it.
 
@Abyx As always, remember that correlation does not imply causation. This may be games leading to sexism--but could just as well be sexist people finding games more attractive.
 
Initially, I wanted to de-anonymize chat but then it might be weird playing with a bunch of 12 year old kids.
 
9:28 PM
@EtiennedeMartel but "you play like a girl" is a statistically correct observation.
 
@Abyx no
 
e.g. in a football or chess
 
Last Olympics I watched a few female rugby matches. Holy shit it was so intense.
 
The problem isn't that playing like a woman means that your breasts are adding drag forces, rather it means playing poorly in general.
 
@EtiennedeMartel of course they were awesome, it's Olympics, they try as hard as they can
 
9:31 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Er, it's "trash talk", not "thrash talk"
 
@Puppy I don't know, I was under the impression that you were giving the other side a thrashing, but with words.
 
@Puppy isn't it almost the same
 
no and no
 
so if you put a female Olympics team against a low-rate male team, it would be a fair fight. Thus such male team would play like girls.
 
Hey is it okay to ask about an answered question here? I'm pretty sure my problem is almost exactly what the answer is solving, I'm just clueless about getting it right
 
9:35 PM
@bright-star you'd better try another room
 
no and no.
 
Got it, thanks
 
unless that question is really awesome
 
No, it's not, it's more of a Sturgeon's law kind of thing
 
I am bored already
 
9:36 PM
surgeon's law? yeah you should go to medics

C++ Questions and Answers

Solve problems and approach solutions. Just ask and lurkers wi...
 
user1804599
Aww, Labour chairman has quit. :( He could've stayed and made everything much worse for Labour and thus better for the country.
 
@rightfold I guess you hate labour.
 
user1804599
It's a shit party.
 
In the same way the Deomcrats are shit
 
which country?
 
9:45 PM
everywhere
Democracy - it's when Democrats are in power.
 
@Abyx are you a KGB agent? "case if you are you have to tell us.
 
@Mikhail of course not, I'm not that old
 
meh
democracy is a terrible system but there are no viable alternatives
 
@Puppy there is no such system as democracy
"Waldo's moment" is your democracy
 
@Abyx Good one, but seriously, which government agency do you work for?
 
9:48 PM
wat?
 
@Puppy it's from Black Mirror. you should watch it, it's about UK after all
Black Mirror is a British science fiction television anthology series created by Charlie Brooker and centred around dark and satirical themes that examine modern society, particularly with regard to the unanticipated consequences of new technologies. Episodes are standalone works, usually set in an alternative present or the near future. The show was first broadcast on the British Channel 4, in 2011. In September 2015, Netflix commissioned a third season of 12 episodes. The commissioned episodes were later divided into two seasons of six episodes; the third season was released on Netflix worldwide...
@Mikhail the government of myself.
 
no
it's not really like that at all
 
but we're getting close to it
 
not really getting close to it at all
 
people vote for what has their sympathies.
 
9:52 PM
that is the intended function of a democracy- the people vote for what they want.
 
@Puppy except that they want shit, know nothing, and get easily deceived
 
no, there's nothing "except" about that.
the people's motivations for what they want are immaterial
 
also, how do you think - is it ok that it's always about majority? not vocal minorities, but silent majority?
 
only way it can be done
 
e.g. the us-mexican wall. the silent majority want the wall. but the minorities find it horrible
 
9:56 PM
then it's a democratic success for the wall to be built
 
@Abyx no, dude you gotta stop watching Russian television
 
what if majority is xenophobic?
 
doesn't matter.
it's irrelevant whether or not what the people want is good, or if they want it for good reasons.
 
nwp
@Abyx how do you know what the silent majority wants? They are silent after all.
 
democracy only cares that they get what they want.
 
9:57 PM
@Mikhail oh, the ad-television argument
 
besides
 
@nwp there're polls
 
compared to Putin's "My opponents are assassinated and I become an obscenely wealthy dictator", building the Mexican wall is nothing
 
@Abyx But seriously, the news on the 1st Channel has nothing to do with reality.
 
@Mikhail seriously, it's indirect ad-hominem, stop it
@Puppy yeah, we have same democracy here. people do vote for Putin. the majority want him
 
10:01 PM
@Abyx For a man who prides himself on working for "the government of myself", you're increasingly sounding like a shill for Putin
 
not really sure if that is true at all, given how he controls the media and his opponents are mysteriously assassinated
 
@Puppy yes, people like him because of what they see/hear from the media
but I doubt that he really need to control the media.
 
this raises the question of why he would
 
in U.S. almost all the media was pro-Hillary. but Trump promised things (like the wall) and people elected him
 
@Abyx fox, also lost the popular vote...
 
10:05 PM
there was plenty of pro-Trump media, like Fox News
most of the media that aren't totally batshit crazy are pro-Hillary because Trump is totally batshit crazy
but
 
yeah he is
 
it's always nice to see the batshit crazy folks because then you know that they are not having their perspective forced on them
 
ah by the way, Putin killed no political opponents. A few insignificant people died, but by no means they could be considered opponents.
 
lol
 
that's another thing about the media - western media presented murdered Nemtsov as a "prominent leader of opposition". Truth is - he was nobody.
 
10:10 PM
how about Alexander Litvinenko?
then he mysteriously dies
he publically accused the Russian state of a bunch of murders and similar things that were covered up
 
@Puppy he was a traitor a spy?
he deserted to UK. that's all we need to know
 
The key thing is that Putin has reduced his real opposition to "nobodies", for politics he was a nobody sure, but not for the opposition.
 
@Abyx Not feeling anything traitorous about trying to inform your people that your government is murdering its opponents and covering them up.
in fact, I think it's pretty patriotic to sacrifice his life as he knew it, give up his career, etc, solely to try to bring down an utterly corrupt government
 
@Puppy ugh, I think he got lots of money from UK.
 
well, it would be nice if we could just ask him to testify to his side of the story and have a nice fair trial about it
oh wait, he was mysteriously murdered.
 
10:14 PM
even if it's not true - it doesn't matter. he looked like a foreign mouthpiece so he was a foreign mouthpiece
 
erm, what?
just because someone looks like a thing does not make them that thing at all.
otherwise people dressing up as wizards could start teleporting around
 
@Puppy I mean it's how public opinion works
 
that's where your government/judiciary is supposed to step in and sort matters out
unless they're totally corrupt in which case you have a problem
I mean, how much anti-Putin media is there at the moment in Russia?
 
oh they are corrupt
@Puppy there is, but it's insignificant. no one reads/watches it
 
hm
so do you believe that there is absolutely nobody who opposes Putin for any reason, or do you believe that Putin just ensures their silence through corrupt media?
 
10:18 PM
so, the government is terrible. corrupt and evil. but it controls media so people like it.
 
hm
so I'm not quite sure I understand your position
 
@Puppy there is no opponent. no person who could be an alternative to Putin
 
are you trying to claim that things in Britain/US/etc are that bad?
 
@Puppy I claim that Russia has democracy is a way that people elect what they want. Thus same "democracy" could happen to UK/US/etc
 
This is fucking bullshit, there are no conventional opponents because of the system silenced them or incorporated them. More unconventional ones they arrest, beat up or kill.
 
10:21 PM
@Mikhail there were no conventional opponents in the first place.
 
@Abyx Ходорко́вский? (too lazy too use translit)
 
the people can't really elect what they want when there's only one choice to consider because the others got covered up by a corrupt government
 
@Mikhail Watch the John Oliver episode from a few weeks back. It explains everything.
 
@Mikhail a tycoon? thief and murderer? no, thanks.
 
@Mysticial I'm vaguely from that part of the world :-)
 
10:24 PM
@Puppy but what US has? two choices? does it make a difference?
how come that a third major party never appeared?
when there're hundreds of minor parties
This is a list of political parties in the United States, both past and present. == Parties with federal representation == Current United States Congressional seats Congressional leadership of the House of Representatives Congressional leadership of the Senate The Vice President of the United States has the additional duty of President of the Senate. It is the Vice President's duty as President of the Senate to cast a tie-breaking vote in the event that "they be equally divided"—an equal number of Senators voting both for and against a motion. == Parties with state representation == == Major... ==
 
@Abyx For many reasons, if you think a politician is corrupt or sucks you can get rid of them. Many people submit mix ballots.
 
@Abyx Yes, the difference between one and two is pretty big.
but don't forget that those are really only choices for President, and they can also pick lawmakers at many levels of government
 
@Mikhail both trump and hillary sucked. they were like two putins, without any sane alternative
 
in addition to choosing the candidates if they want to participate in primaries
 
@Abyx No, they were quite different. You can see the official party platforms on their websites.
 
10:29 PM
@Abyx No, they were really quite different.
Hillary had some problems but Trump is totally batshit insane and Hillary is not.
 
Not to mention the official party platforms!!!!
 
@Abyx No third party has gotten their candidate elected president--but they do actually exert quite a bit if influence anyway. The Republicans and (especially) Democrats are both basically coalitions, and both have to cater to quite a few differing groups, so both undergo substantially greater changes in stance than single parties in many other countries.
 
@Puppy I disagree. Hillary is the insane one. Trump is the stupid one.
 
well, now hillary is an alternative history. we'll never know what would happen
 
user1804599
10:33 PM
kekpot
 
@Abyx True. I've said it before, but I'll repeat: the President doesn't really have nearly as much power any many people think though, so in reality it probably wouldn't make as much difference as many people think. At the same time, the president does affect the image of the US a lot, so in that way having a complete putz as a president has effects disproportionate to his power.
 
it's all about probabilities. Russia is much safer with Trump. Yeah Trump can start new Korean war out of his stupidity. But we don't care.
 
Or maybe Russia messed up in the same way it did with Ukraine?
 
@Mikhail hard to imagine.
 
Increased defense spending + war?
 
10:38 PM
@Abyx I think the Korean War is due to resume regardless.
 
@Mikhail huh? could you elaborate?
 
the North will not stop their nuclear weapons programme, so either the West&South Korea allow them to have it, or they use military force to stop it
and I figure that SK will not sit around and let the North nuke them
that's probably true regardless of who is President
 
@Puppy yes, you have to avoid the war and let NK keep their nukes. Otherwise NK would obliterate Seoul, destroy SK economy, which would highly affect world economy.
 
think that SK will be more than a match for NK these days
 
@Puppy not at all. Seoul is near the border, NK can instantly hit it with heavy artillery.
 
10:41 PM
Seoul is near the border, so it's pretty clear they'll station a huge number of troops there
and I'm pretty sure the South can afford much better equipment and such for their soldiers
 
but you just cannot defend against artillery
 
sure you can- just use your own artillery to blow them up
or send in some tanks
or bombers
 
you cannot stop a shell in-flight. NK only need to shoot once.
 
Seoul's a big city
they're not gonna destroy it with one shell
also some of the prototype laser weapons being tested by the US military can stop shells in flight
 
yeah, and NK is positioning artillery since 195x
 
10:43 PM
I think
 
not that many shells
 
they can't fire that many shells if the SK army rolls over their position
 
they only need to fire once - it's minutes to get ready and seconds to shoot. They don't even need to aim as they're already aimed.
 
they don't really need to fire once
Seoul is a big, big city
and if they are targetting the city they are not targetting the tanks about to roll over them
 
welp NK could already have tactical nukes.
 
10:47 PM
admittedly they could
so I think the South will be forced into a war to ensure the North can't get a dominant strategic nuke
 
@Puppy btw tanks won't really help because they're slow, especially in mountains
 
p. sure the land around Seoul is not mountainous
 
@JerryCoffin agreed. Even Americans don't understand how much equally (or even more) important voting for legislators is than voting for president.
 
@Puppy no, the point is that South doesn't care about NK nukes because conventional artillery is already a threat. However now when NK got missiles which can reach US, it's the US who can start the war by bombing NK nuclear facilities.
 
>>point is that South doesn't care about NK nukes
^questionable
 
10:55 PM
so SK doesn't want the war. NK leadership also doesn't want the war because they want total isolation. Trump can start the war.
if SK wins the war - there will be too much damage and too many refugees from NK
 
Yeah, except Trump isn't trying to start a war, so this conversation is completely fucked.
 
no
 
@Mikhail welp Trump is stupid. Army want a war. Thus the war is possible.
 
@Abyx No, also the US has a strong tradition of civilian control of the army
 

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