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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:00 PM
catch (bool return_value)
Jesus fuck.
These people.
 
throw true; ... wut?!
 
@Borgleader it refers to the thrower's aim
can you not see it?!?!?!?
 
hue
 
saturation
 
now, do we want value or lightness?
how ya been?
 
5:06 PM
Took a sick day. I've been a wreck since monday :(
 
awh :(
 
@JerryCoffin It will be interesting to see if the repcap hats includes days:
- Get over 200 without capping.
- Repcap without getting to 200.
If both of those cases meet the criteria, then I should get it after one more upvote today.
 
Ven
5:22 PM
Hi
 
@Ven hey <3
 
Ven
@Mysticial how do you cap without getting to 200?
 
Xeo
downvotes?
 
Lose rep through downvotes?
 
unaccepts?
 
Ven
5:23 PM
Mmh
@Borgleader don't forget empty files are UB ;)
 
@Ven wut
 
I mean, they don't have a main defined
 
Ven
@milleniumbug CPP
 
5:47 PM
hey I found @Morwenn
a clever trick when implementing a language's sort feature (NB: Rust mandates a stable sort) https://t.co/nJjcrBCDTQ
 
@AlexM. :O
 
Morwenn is basically famous now
@Morwenn can you give me an autograph
 
@AlexM. Are unstable sorts actually faster? /cc @Morwenn
 
the heck you ask me
I know nothing about sorting
 
@wilx Unstable sorts have less requirements.
 
5:54 PM
I can call .OrderBy(x => x) like no other tho
so there's that
 
Hence yes, they are faster.
 
@Ven unupvotes. Checkout my rep history for the last 3 days.
It's been almost an hour since I repcapped today and no hat. So either yesterday or the day before didn't count.
 
@wilx If unstable sorts weren't faster, there would be no point to use them instead of stable sorts.
 
@Borgleader So if you need a quick'n'dirty quadbool, simply return true, return false, throw true or throw false ;)
 
6:04 PM
actually
I'll remember that
thanks
 
@fredoverflow exceptions arent known to be "quick" though ;)
i wouldnt let that pass code review either
 
@Borgleader lol of course not
 
one reason being that code reviews and quick'n dirty are kinda incompatible
 
exactly
Unless the code review is itself quick'n'dirty. "Fuck, only 2 more minutes until the deadline, quick, read and accept this code, I'll explain later!"
 
the whole idea is so dumb I'm bound to find some use for it somewhere sometime LOL
how do you get a tribool quickly, true, false, throw ThirdStateException
lmao
love it
 
6:12 PM
@Rerito How much is a PS4 worth? I once ordered a USB-Stick on amazon that got stolen, I was a bit perplexed that somebody would steal something that was worth 30 bucks or something to risk his job.
@AlexM. How about throw nullptr;? ;)
 
fwiw
I write C# XD
if there's a joke there I'm not aware of it
 
In C++, you can throw pretty much anything.
Does C# have boxed primitives? Can you throw those? Or only subtypes of some Exception base type, like in Java?
 
you can only throw Exceptions
 
Seems reasonable :)
How C# 0.1 came to be:
ren javac.exe csc.exe
> 1996 - James Gosling invents Java. Java is a relatively verbose, garbage collected, class based, statically typed, single dispatch, object oriented language with single implementation inheritance and multiple interface inheritance. Sun loudly heralds Java's novelty.
> 2001 - Anders Hejlsberg invents C#. C# is a relatively verbose, garbage collected, class based, statically typed, single dispatch, object oriented language with single implementation inheritance and multiple interface inheritance. Microsoft loudly heralds C#'s novelty.
classic
> Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them.
This joke no longer works :(
 
user1804599
Yeah! Lambdas suck!
 
user1804599
Point-free programming ftw 😜
 
@Borgleader Right now, I'm leaning a bit towards the latter. First of all, based on the designs that they've disclosed, Zen is gonna get hammered on the HPC side. But that's not a very large market so it's not a biggie. On the other hand, the chip design (assuming no significant bottlenecks) is something that could potentially destroy Intel's current chips for "normal" work loads like gaming. But AMD doesn't seem to be bragging about this. Which concerns me.
Instead, they keep saying that "they're on par" with Intel. For a design that (IMO) is vastly superior to Intel's offerings for normal/scalar workloads, they should be doing better than that.
 
Well they did show Battlefront running at 4k/60 but I guess thats mostly a GPU heavy thing so its not that impressive.
 
@Borgleader I haven't owned an AMD CPU in at least a decade. Last one was an Athlon XP or something.
 
6:41 PM
My guess based on the information that's available is that Zen is going to be limited by the front-end. AMD's back-end (the execution units - especially the scalar/SSE FP) is much better than Intel's. But if the front-end (decode, scheduling) can't get above 4 instructions/cycle, all that back-end will be a waste and they'll be hard-pressed to be beat Intel. They'll achieve parity with Intel at 4/cycle. But they're not beating them that easily without going above that.
 
@Mysticial This is probably a silly question, but ... wouldn't have they noticed that their front end is holding the back end... back?
 
On the HPC side, they're gonna get thrashed. The FP-throughput is only half that of Intel's current desktop chips. So Zen isn't gonna be winning any dense linear algebra benchmarks. And it certainly won't do well in my code.
@Borgleader Probably, but maybe too late. These sort of major design components need to be done early in the development process. It's not something that can be changed late game.
So perhaps AMD will widen the front-end in later versions of Zen. (Zen+)
 
"We've run the new AMD processors on these benchmarks:
3DMark
CPUMark
Aida64
Mysticial's code"
like any of your code
just git clone a random repo and run
 
If AMD can't pass 4 instructions/cycle, there is one area left which I see where they can still beat Intel at. That would be highly optimized SSE (not AVX) code - which you would probably see in games.
 
Actually one thing that might be important is TDP. If they can match them on lower power that might help no?
 
6:48 PM
But to be fair. AMD had a long way to play catch up. So being able to achieve parity with Intel in the most important market is step 1 to ending the monopoly.
 
@Mysticial And if AMD doesn't cut it, we can always hope for Cyrix to rise again, or whatever they were called... a friend of mine had a Cyrix 486 back then :)
 
So while I might not be using an AMD processor for any real number-crunching anytime soon, I'll certainly love the extra competition driving prices down. If Zen turns out to be that great at gaming and compiling (neither of which are HPC), it'll replace my 5960X as my main desktop which I do everything on. Then my 5960X will become a dedicated benchmark/test machine.
 
inb4 in 10 years ARM takes over the world
all desktops run on ARM
 
@Mysticial Thats def what I'm hoping for here, AMD to be close enough to Intel to drive prices down.
 
didn't Intel announce a partnership with AMD or sth
to overcome nvidia in some market or another
that ought to give AMD $$$ so some bad cpus won't affect it that much
 
6:54 PM
I wonder if The Garbage Collection Handbook would be an interesting read...
 
@AlexM. theres a rumor they signed a deal to use their gpu patents because their deal with nvidia ends next yer
its not to overcome nvidia, they need to sign a patent deal thing because they were late to the game in terms of gpu
 
@fredoverflow only one way to find out
 
Regardless of how Zen turns out, I'll probably be getting it anyway since I need to optimize for it or people will call be "Intel-biased" (which I still get anyways). But how good Zen is will determine when and which variant I get.
- If it sucks, I'll probably get the 4-core model some months down the road.
- If it's awesome, I'll probably get the highest 8-core variant asap and use it as my main desktop.
 
(search for the pdf somewhere, get a taste, then buy)
 
@AlexM. I don't intend to write my own GC, so I would only read it out of pure curiosity...
 
6:57 PM
Either way, it'll probably have no effect on my plans to get Skylake Purley and Cannonlake boxes. The question is whether I get the desktop (presumably overclockable) Skylake Purley, or a dual-socket server variant which has the NUMA that I need. The latter will be much more expensive.
 
definitely search for the pdf somewhere
 
@AlexM. Haha, the fuck.
 
if I were to buy all the books I got curious about and then abandoned
I'd be having a seriously below 0 balance
 
@AlexM. You can read a couple of pages on amazon for free.
 
that's too little imo but really this is a discussion that has no conclusion
do what you feel like :D
 
6:58 PM
> "I don't know about Rust, but..." OK stop right there
lol
 
so, about that autograph...
 
I don't have an electronic signature, and sending a physical mail would be a pain D:
But you sure can have my love <3
 
@AlexM. auto graph does not compile without an initializer!
 
I'll send you my right buttock
you sign it
then I put it back
:thumbsup:
 
xD
 
7:01 PM
I'm just messin with ya
I'm not that sort of guy ;)
 
@Borgleader Took a closer look at the slides. And sure enough Zen will not go above 4 instructions/cycle.
TBH, I'm not surprised. The area and power consumption for N instructions/cycle is at least O(N^2) where the Big-O is really big.
 
nwp
@AlexM. need to send a bit more then
 
@AlexM. I hoped so :D
 
@nwp that would make sorting things out at the customs way harder
also I'd be pretty unstable until getting back the package
(there are puns in these messages btw)
(just in case)
 
But seriously, how did she come across a random comment among Rust's many issues two weeks after it was posted, where the post is literally dwarfed by the other answers? o_o
 
7:07 PM
(they were not witnessed)
 
They were ignored :p
 
god damnit
 
@Mysticial Alright, well I guess we'll just have to wait for it to be released and see what the performance "really" is like.
 
@AlexM. Hm, the ebook is only 5/8 the price, but...
 
@fredoverflow be careful with kindle editions
read reviews first to make sure they're good
here is an example of a very famous and appreciated book
that has an unusable kindle version
at least for this one the problems are straightforward, it comes as a PDF that is crap
for others are less straightforward
like mathematical formulas being OCRed from the physical book or directly scanned
and being wrong
or barely visible
bottom line I would not buy the ebook version of any book unless it had plenty of reviews saying it's great
 
7:24 PM
@AlexM. I have that
 
@Borgleader Intel has had 4 instructions/cycle going all the way back to at least Sandy Bridge. Though it was difficult to achieve back then. It's much easier now on Haswell and Skylake. So this limit of 4 is probably a harder limit than I initially suspected.
 
also
I would not buy the kindle version of any book on principle
I really don't think they'd allow me to read it without their DRM stuff
so why do it
 
mobility and price?
 
that's fair
but you're still locked to kindle
or devices that run their app
 
@Mysticial Dont quote me on that, but I think the current consoles have 2?
(for comparison)
 
7:29 PM
luckily when it comes to computers
 
@AlexM. fair 'nuff
 
I find anything I need on sites like O'Reilly and Apress for example
they give their eBooks in DRM free form
so that I would buy
let me download my file and I read it on anything I want
 
@Borgleader I don't know. I don't pay attention to console chips.
 
@Mysticial pfff pc-biased
:P
 
should've said manning not o'reilly I don't really have any book from o'reilly minus their unix stuff that was in the humble bundle
most of my ebooks are published by manning
 
7:32 PM
hm
 
tho
physical books do smell nice XD
 
also kitties /cc @jaggedSpire
 
^_^
 
My job here is done :P
 
7:54 PM
@Borgleader Do servers count as PCs? :D
 
@AlexM. packt is doing that as well and now they sell their top pick e-books for 5$ each.
 
noice
 
@Mysticial Theres generaly nothing personal about servers so no ;)
 
What is this, a hearing aid?
 
@Borgleader Admittedly, I've used a server as a PC before. Back in my college days. It was hilarious.
 
8:06 PM
Why was it hilarious?
 
@fredoverflow something something hearing something something sandwich
something something portable
 
8:18 PM
@fredoverflow I once borrowed Dune by Frank Herbert from local library. It smelled like 24/7 chain smoker.
 
@fredoverflow It's Telkitty when she's stoned.
 
> Following a consultation with the BFI and leading British film producers, we will add the BFI Diversity Standards to the eligibility criteria for the Outstanding British Film and Outstanding Debut by a British Writer, Director or Producer categories from 2019. -- BAFTA and Diversity
Wow.
This is getting ridiculous. :(
 
8:51 PM
@Mysticial oh you
 
9:02 PM
"How Russia Wins an Election" http://politi.co/2gD19if This raises all my conspiracy-skeptic reflexes, but the many sources are interesting.
What say ye? Do Abiksen get paid to upset the Gayropians?
I'd say there's a marked consistency in the way Both Nigel Farage and Geert Wilders were so quick to point fingers at Merkel. That too feels like an orchestrated effort to influence the Federal Elections in Germany next year.
 
user1804599
Just like the NPO/MSM
 
user1804599
Consider it a compensation
 
I don't. It's both stupid.
 
user1804599
Save points are so nice
 
user1804599
Nested transactions ftw
 
9:16 PM
@fredoverflow Thanks for your guess, but no. That's our innovative new Princess Leia salad bowl set. Some people are so dense their brain has its own gravity well to hold the salad in the bowls.
 
9:33 PM
@milleniumbug :sensible-chuckle:
 
9:56 PM
@sehe I say "Wait, didn't everybody already know this?"
 
@sarahjeong Silly fact: The second edition contains this humorous typo on the title page. @Gilad_Bracha was not pl… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811670406960513025
 
user1804599
> The simplest example of an instinctive behavior is a fixed action pattern (FAP)
 
user1804599
I see what you did there.
 
user1804599
> in which a very short to medium length sequence of actions, without variation, are carried out
 
10:11 PM
sometimes i fap short to medium length
 
what you guys think of emscripten?
 
it's a thing!
 
Fuck Deus Ex: Human Revolution boss fights. :(
They suck.
You play stealthy non-lethal all the way through and the first boss fight stops you because you are not equipped to fight him.
 
10:29 PM
you can win the first boss fight using just the items you have around
go to the room on your left there are weapons and grenades
 
They added new ways to deal with bosses in Director's cut
 
the boss died after 3 concussion grenades and a SMG emptied on the hardest difficulty for me
all bosses died very quickly relative to other games where shooting is the priority
 
even in original first boss was easy with stun + revolver headshots
 
so there's definitely some nerfing for stealth chars done :P
@MojaveWastelander revolver is like the best weapon in the game loved it
then again the revolver is the best weapon in any game
and if it's not it's because its brother the desert eagle is in the game
 
@AlexM. You are pro. :( I suck at these things. :(
 
10:34 PM
 
@sehe IDGI.
 
away in a manger
oui le croissant
 
@rightfold Burrowing behaviour comes first, I guess
 
@wilx aim for the head
keep your crosshair at head level at all times
and snap to the walls so you can quickly shoot enemies that come from behind walls
and it's gg
 
Not everyon plays CS m8
 
10:38 PM
this is not CS specific tho
it works in any FPS
takes some practice
well it doesn't work as well in games with many enemies and open rooms
like some levels in Doom
but it works in doom 3's corridors for example I haven't played the new one
 
What i mean is most ppl good at this "always aim for the head thing" or rather those who say "ya just need to aim for the head" come from a CS background
I got wrecked in 1v1 in OW and the guy was playing a lot of CS. I kid you not this guy destroyed me way more than anyone i faced off with.
 
you need to constantly aim for the head at all times when you see an enemy boom headshot
you see your dog boom headshot
your friends boom headshot
if they try to run away just chase with a knife in your hand
you'll run faster
 
nwp
And poker is easy too, you just read what your opponent has and if you have more you go all in. Impossible to lose.
 
nowadays with games if you don't know something just look on youtube or google it, as with stackoverflow - there is a high chance someone already solved your problem
and in DX:HR most problems can be solved in multiple ways
 
10:44 PM
def recommend to anyone who likes FPS games, not cs go specific
give the tips a shot and over time you'll find that you're playing any FPS in a more controlled and predictable manner
they also become easier
it really boils down to limiting your mouse movements which are the source of inaccuracy by anticipating where your enemy will be
 
11:39 PM
Has anyone in here played with the D language? What do you think of it?
 
user1804599
@RobertHarvey It combines the worst features of Java (all but generics) with the worst features of C++ (templates).
 
Since you guys are always telling me not to learn C++, what is the best alternative language that has similar goals?
 
user1804599
Rust.
 
... Rust? idk i havent actaully programmed in it
 
11:42 PM
PHP
JS
 
but we get evangelists every so often
 
Android
 
user1804599
Rust, like C++, is a DSL for applications that can't use a GC.
 
(insert tag with the shittiest SO questions)
 
Esperanto
 
user1804599
11:43 PM
But it was designed by people who know about programming language semantics and type theory.
 
(unserious suggestions need not apply)
 
user1804599
And has a good memory safety model; you won't ever get a segfault or data race.
 
user1804599
Not even accidental modify-while-iterate and several other mutation-related bugs.
 
I'll check out Rust. Thanks.
 
Is this just as a curiosity or a hobby?
 
11:48 PM
@RobertHarvey There are no viable alternatives at this time.
 
user1804599
You'll probably have trouble learning Rust's object lifetimes. But less so than maintaining C++ code.
 
@RobertHarvey C++ will probably be really cool in 2020.
Maybe.
Probably not.
But it has potential to be cool.
 
user1804599
C++ will be even more broken in 2020. The committee still hasn't committed to "deprecating fucktons of features before adding any new ones", and it's getting pretty close to 2020 so I doubt such a necessary improvement will happen.
 
C++17 removed a lot of deprecated things lol
 
user1804599
But it didn't deprecate a lot of broken things, like templates, ADL, member pointers, unions and inheritance.
 
11:51 PM
Oh. Right. I forgot you shitpost a lot.
 
IIRC, someone told IBM to fuck off about the trigraphs.
@rightfold So you propose removing all those things from C++? Wouldn't that just make it C?
 
user1804599
It would, and then you deprecate a lot of C cruft, so you can then make it into literally Rust by adding features again.
 
user1804599
:3
 
@Mysticial I've always wanted to learn C++, but I've been told (more than once) that if I want to preserve my sanity I should learn something else.
 
@RobertHarvey It depends on how you approach it.
I'd say C++ is either vi or emacs.
 
11:57 PM
interesting thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
tchaikovsky's voice recorded
 
And it depends on which areas you want to learn. If you want to learn all of it (including TMP) and all the corner cases, then that'll take a while.
 
aside from the person making it interesting
it's a 127 year old recording
 
@RobertHarvey It honestly really isn't that bad imo lol
C++14 is actually really nice imo.
C++17 adds some neat things and nice things to the standard library.
The problem imo is that some things have very big gaping holes.
 
I would say that it helps if you have an understanding of hardware and compilers and how they interact with the language.
 
Static reflection, coroutines, networking, etc are all missing
 
11:59 PM
@RobertHarvey Virtually nothing else really has the same goals, so you pretty much need to define what you really want to accomplish to make an intelligent decision. Rust does have some good points, but it also has some pretty serious weaknesses (e.g., it's probably the only language in existence whose compilers make C++ compilers look fast by comparison). Others that have goals similar to at least some of what people use C++ for include Ada, Go, and Dart.
 
And in almost 2017 that's pretty sad.
 
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