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Ell
2:01 PM
mine expires in feb
I haven't used any of it :(
 
I've used like half or something
also buying guitar stuff is sadness :/
I need a preamp
 
yesssss
3k rep
finally I can close vote the shit questions instead of flagging
 
good job
 
thanks
 
Ven
\o/ congrats
 
2:04 PM
@Ven <3
 
\o\
 
Ven
hi @Morwenn <3
@jaggedSpire I share your happiness, I broke 1k on codegolf yesterday (by asking a question – my first)
 
@Morwenn <3
@Ven grats! And also impressive!
 
@Ven @jaggedSpire <3 <3 <3
 
Ven
@jaggedSpire yeah I'm impressed by how unproductive I am ;P
 
2:12 PM
@Ven :P
<3 <3 <3
 
Ell
I don't like the use of "dummy variable" in maths
 
I have no idea where to introduce the OverloadSet as a type in my language.
Is it a core type?
Or something that only exists transiently in the Semantic Analyzer for the purposes of Overload Resolution?
 
Ven
can you take a reference to your function?
 
That's the plan. (Yes.)
 
Ven
you have your answer
 
2:22 PM
I have it as the type of the identifier that resolves to an overload set. :P
 
Ell
yeah griwes uses some weird embedding :P
it's disgusting ;)
 
That doesn't really help me.
Well, I mean. It sort of does?
If I can take a reference to a function, that means I need to be able to have a real value and capable of modifying it.
 
Ven
@ThePhD If you need to be able to use it in the language, then it needs be in the language. 'nuff said.
 
Buh.
Here we go.
 
@Ell It's not weird - I just have overload sets as a first class thing that I can pass around.
 
Ell
2:25 PM
@Griwes I think the embedding of them in the c++ is weird
 
I can also have function foo() {}, function foo(a : int) {} and then let bar = foo; and it all works.
 
Ell
it means your language spec is tied to the c++ spec right
 
I guess I need a type just called overload.
 
@Ell No, it just means that the language uses the C++ ABI when generating C++.
I am intending to go away from doing that though, it's getting increasingly irritating.
 
Ell
But, don't you use the c++ compiler to resolve overloads in the language?
 
2:26 PM
@Ell I don't have to. :P
 
Ell
Right, but you are :P
 
I could do tag dispatching at the Vapor level.
I'm lazy atm.
 
Ell
which means the language is tied to the c++ spec currently
which is gross IMO :P (curently)
 
The language isn't.
The implementation, OTOH... :P
 
Ell
pshh yes I guess
But your spec is just your "reference implementation" currently right?
 
2:28 PM
Alright, I'll do overloading after I get the rest done.
 
No. :D
 
That'll be my Advanced Language Feature.
 
The spec is in my head.
 
Ell
@Griwes Can I see it? :D
 
fueled by gross vapors
 
2:29 PM
@Ell brainviewer: command not found
@Ell Once I do have structs and typeclasses (and those are, at least in their partial form, the next two features I'll do) (well, and arrays, but whatever) I'll try to move to generating LLVM IR directly, and that's going to be what I'll be generating for a while. (Basically those features allow me to write a naive bigint implementation in Vapor, since that's kinda necessary.)
(...I might need some dumb initial version of modules also, but eh, whatever.)
 
user1804599
@Ven Kurwa, przynieś mi piwo.
 
(I might as well require a definition of int to be present directly in the current module until I actually implement modules.)
 
Ell
@Griwes why is writing bigint in vapor necessary?
 
the answer is in the question
 
@Ell to avoid having to implement a shitload of code for its generation in the compiler.
 
Ell
2:40 PM
what will your bigint look like?
in vapor
 
@Ell struct int { let data : int[]; let positive : bool; }; or something. Plus some typeclass instances that'll make operators work on those.
 
@Ell bby u wanna c what my bigint look like
 
cacadi!
here to liven up the party
 
its got peltny of bits in all the right places
 
just when I'm leaving, alas
 
Ven
2:44 PM
Bai
@CheukKinSing putain je voulais jouer sur les mots avec "bai-se" pour faire bise + bai. Et puis mes yeux se sont emplis d'horreur
 
Ell
3:03 PM
@Griwes looks p weird
How would you multiply?
How would you do anything unless you do it peano style? :P
When you have no other numeric primitive
 
> Plus some typeclass instances that'll make operators work on those.
ah
I fucked up, that array shouldn't be of int, and rather of int64 or something.
But I did write "or something", so there's that. :D
@Ell I'll have fixed-size integer primitives.
 
Ell
I would think bigint is a low priority really
 
Bigint is how integer literals are currently working. :P
At some point it'll get smarter and all, but that'll take a while.
 
Ell
I thought you said you didn't have bigin
 
what
Currently I'm just generating boost::multiprecision::cpp_int.
 
Ell
3:17 PM
What is wrong with that?
The c++abi?
 
Can't do that when I start generating LLVM IR instead.
 
Ell
Use GMP :F
 
kek
bad for multiple reasons
 
Ell
3:46 PM
@Griwes go on
 
1) gpl 2) hard optimizer barriers because opaque function calls
 
Ell
2 is funny xD
 
user1804599
@Ven TIL Windows 3.1 was literally Node.js.
 
user1804599
32
A: How did Windows 3.1 implement multitasking?

mcleod_ideafixFor win16 programs, Windows implemented cooperative multitasking. Its implementation was based upon the "message loop" architecture of every Windows program. The duty of every program was to endlessly run in a loop in which a call to GetMessage() function was performed. This function call looks ...

3
 
Ven
4:05 PM
@rightfold something similar was in mac os until version 9, iirc.
 
user1804599
apple is badass rockstar tech like nodejs
 
Ven
@Ell you won't believe #7
 
Ell
lol
 
4:41 PM
@rightfold That is really interesting.
 
4:52 PM
69
Q: Someone signed up with my email, there's no "not me" link

WillI face this problem on many different sites. People register on various services with my email address. Often, those welcome emails provide no way to stop getting email without a lengthy process of resetting that password and manually deleting the account. I don't know why people do this, and I k...

^^ lol
Not a problem that I have since the only email I have that bares any resemblance to my name is .edu email address.
 
@Griwes Inlining isn't always better yknow plus it'll beat your code anyway :v
 
it's a horrible library either way
and has a horrible license that makes it 100% unusable
 
Also it's LGPL (and so is MPIR)
 
alright, it's just 90% unusable
 
@Griwes Licensing issues aside, don't they have a C++ wrapper or something?
 
4:58 PM
If it's theirs, then it's almost certainly even more horrible than the C API.
 
Hard to deny that. The guys on both the GMP and MPIR mailing list admit they know jack shit about C++.
 
Ell
LGPL is a v reasonable license IMO
 
Perhaps boost::multiprecision would have a reasonable API. They let you use the GMP backends.
 
5:16 PM
2 hours ago, by Griwes
Currently I'm just generating boost::multiprecision::cpp_int.
And my next message after that. :P
 
5:28 PM
Ah. If you're writing a compiler, GMP is overkill. You're not gonna be doing million-digit operations.
 
Hello, facing a issue related to KMDF in VS2015, may i discuss with you?
 

C++ Questions and Answers

Solve problems and approach solutions. Just ask and lurkers wi...
 
thanks
 
5:59 PM
@Mysticial My dream is to build a machine with enough memory that I can write a template that recurses deeply enough to need a bigint to keep track of the depth. :-)
And no, you don't need to point out how long it would take to compile it, considering that at 4 GHz, it takes over a century just to count from 0 to 2^64. Obviously it just needs to run at a few peta Hertz (or so).
 
@JerryCoffin yes, this trips me over every time I come up with an idea to check if every double value satisfies a certain property
 
Just use a 32-bit OS.
There won't be enough address space for the compiler to store the IR. So you'll need to write a compiler that does explicit disk swapping.
 
@Mysticial Yay! It'll feel like home MS-DOS!
 
I don't even know how to approach an "out-of-core" compiler. Most of the compiler IR are graphs and trees. Not exactly efficient things to put on disk.
 
6:17 PM
@Mysticial Yeah--it can get out of hand in a hurry. At one point (long ago) IBM had a PL/I compiler that reputedly ran in over 100 passes, with the IR apparently stored as basically a hierarchical database.
 
6:45 PM
hola
 
Ell
Long time no see
How's it?
 
Going well @Ell. How are you?
 
Ell
I'm well besides my house being in a complete state due to drainage issues >.< heading to the pub actually
 
@Ell Have some beers for me!
 
Ell
Will do!
 
Ven
7:15 PM
@JerryCoffin holy mother of PL/I
@rightfold we need to learn PL/I.
 
0
A: Strange optimization? in `libuv`. Please explain

siolmIt's only an optimization to make the program run more efficiently.

/cc @Mysticial
11/10 very informative
 
In contrast to the optimizations which make the program run less efficiently. — milleniumbug 10 secs ago
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
@milleniumbug GHC users sweating bullets right now
> Ele scepter and Necro Axe get buffed twice per year every year. It is to mark the changing of seasons.
@CheukKinSing
anet at the start of the year: "we will issue a PvP balance patch in each pre-season", anet right now: "s5 will start next week with these balance changes, plus we might nerf tweak mesmer while in the middle of the season"
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
rad
 
@Borgleader lol
A write to a memory location can be a lot slower than a branch misprediction. If the core only has shared ownership of the cacheline, it must broadcast an invalidation request to all other cores to invalidate their copies. And if any other core has it in the modified state, it must send back the cacheline and merge it with the current core. Since this involves multiple back-and-forths across the core-interconnect, we're talking latencies greater than a cache-miss (hundreds of cycles) as opposed to 10-ish for a branch misprediction. — Mysticial 7 mins ago
 
user1804599
TIL
 
@Mysticial Gave your comment an upboat. I was about to comment "The optimization prophet hath spoken" but it might have been considered too chatty :P
 
7:52 PM
@Borgleader Your first comment should've been, "No shit Sherlock."
 
I need to bikeshed a way to allocate memory for some type X and some syntax for placement new.
 
@Mysticial Worth noting that the write can take a while to propagate, but that doesn't necessarily affect anything unless a core actually tries to read from the same location before the propagation finishes. I.e., from the CPU's viewpoint, it mostly just goes into a write queue, and the CPU continues on to other things.
 
To summarize all these comments in two words, "No Sh​it." — Mysticial 12 secs ago
 
Xeo
That's just not helpful, is it?
 
@JerryCoffin That was what I used to believe as well. Until I actually tested it. Since x86 requires acquire/release for all normal load and stores, all stores are broadcast to the bus in order. But the OOE reorder window isn't large enough to hide a 100+ cycle stall on a single instruction, so everything gets backed up.
 
7:57 PM
@Mysticial yes but... does intel bother with any of that if the cacheline didn't actually change?
 
@Mgetz I haven't explicitly tested this, but I will say no because it still needs to generate the write on the bus to preserve the program order of writes for the purpose of retaining acquire/release semantics.
Just because the current core A sees that the flag is zero doesn't mean that Core C sees it as zero if Core B just wrote a zero to it.
 
@Mysticial hmm, you could still broadcast and just ignore if the caches are coherent
 
@Mgetz Broadcast for what?
The invalidation?
 
@Mysticial the write
 
That's exactly what happens when you write to it.
 
8:03 PM
nice to know I can derp in the right direction
 
If the core doesn't have exclusive ownership of the cacheline, it's not allowed to write to it. So it broadcasts an invalidate to all other cores. The slow part is waiting to see if any other core has a modified copy of the cacheline.
 
Kind of like a graphics system invalidating a rectangle to cause a redraw.
 
tfw you run across a question that you know the OP is doing something they probably shouldn't be
1
Q: C++ constructor memory synchronization

eofAssume that I have code like: void InitializeComplexClass(ComplexClass* c); class Foo { public: Foo() { i = 0; InitializeComplexClass(&c); } private: ComplexClass c; int i; }; If I now do something like Foo f; and hand a pointer to f over to another thread, what guarantees d...

 
8:52 PM
Today at the restaurant with colleagues if mine: one of my colleagues an I get served first, then she says « well, looks like they serve the girls first ».
 
nwp
is that a "yay hormones working" moment or a "triggered, how dare she be that sexist" moment?
 
Things are pretty chill these days.
It's a bit of « yay hormones working », even though it's more of a joke at work that I'm not as masculine as most guys (even before hormones). Not in a discriminatory way or anything though :)
 
@Morwenn cool
also it's cool your colleagues are ok with it
 
I can't honestly say that I look like a girl though. I just occasionally get mistaken for one at first sight. But I'm ok with the somewhat androgynous appearance.
@milleniumbug They're pretty cool in general. I don't think they'd give that much of an actual fuck if I told them I'm on hormones (well, they'd be surpried for a while, but that's pretty much it).
 
user1804599
9:28 PM
@herbsutter a sequence of seven binary digits forms a #byte
 
user1804599
Committee SHALL fuck up C++27.
 
> I've always wanted to play the Civilisation games, but feared the consequences. I'm British, you see. We tend to get a little carried away with the whole empire building thing. The only thing that can keep us away from a colony is the prefix "Nudist".
 
9:51 PM
heh
@Borgleader I think that "You might want code review instead" comment I made might be my highest or second-highest upvoted comment ever, and it isn't even funny :(
 
@jaggedSpire <3
 
@Morwenn <3 hey bby
how's your Friday going?
 
Pretty good, as described above :p
 
so it is!
Silly me :)
@Morwenn ^_^
gonna go see about getting new tires for my automobile, bbiab
 
Eh, good luck.
 
Ven
10:23 PM
@jaggedSpire i currently have two kittens and a cat I'm playing with.
It is pretty amazing.
 
That sounds so cute é____è
 
@Ven :O
is jelly
 
Ven
11:03 PM
@jaggedSpire ah I don't have you on discord
 
11:18 PM
@Ven yeah, I haven't been on there in a month
 
Ven
11:32 PM
Fresh from my phone camera
 
@Ven delight ensues
 
Xeo
@Ven kitties <3
 
@Borgleader
-9
Q: How to attach a program to another executable in C

user3266083I have an executable file "hello" compiled using gcc that prints out "Hello World". I have another C source file named attach.c that prints out "This is attached" - #include <stdio.h> int main() { printf("This is attached\n"); return 0; } I want to be able to attach the complied attac...

3
 
brilliant
 
Ven
They're so nice and warm.
 
11:46 PM
such breathtaking intellect
it is a privilege to behold
I wish there was an "OP is an idiot and giving a full explanation why and in how many different ways would break the character limit" flag
but of course, such a flag would be abused to hell and back with time to spare before afternoon tea
 
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