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3:09 PM
Today's installment in the saga of "what have you done to piss off meta today?"
Yet another indication that we should burninate php and delete all questions and answers related to it (or at least, all related exclusively to it). — Jerry Coffin 1 min ago
Might be a good test of whether anybody on meta has a sense of humor though... :-)
 
nwp
Would also be a good test if the community still cares enough to flag as spam or not constructive.
 
Can you guys explain why initializing 0 to both X and Y in my struct constructor causes my error on line 10 to go away(The error is no "default constructor exists for class vector)"? paste.ofcode.org/QFZeKsWgqRshfCLdxQe7Cb I know I can simply do Vector() and the error will go away but how does initializing both X and Y to zero make it act like a default constructor?
 
nwp
@JerryCoffin your humor is way too subtle for the average meta warrior to understand

C++ Questions and Answers

Solve problems and approach solutions. Just ask and lurkers wi...
 
[En]

Hi all,

Up my small hand Dell for news. Here is my message:

"Hello and Happy New Year to you,

I come to you to know or is currently worries. Information on the subject? Dell working with Broadcom on the subject? A Linux driver being created?

Thank you. "

I expected the answer

---
Charming lot, those French
 
Ofc we are charming
 
3:26 PM
@LuisAverhoff Do you mean writing your ctor like this: Vector(float X=0, float Y=0): x(X), y(Y) {}? If so, it eliminates the error (after you remove the declaration of Vector();) because that can be invoked as a default constructor.
 
@JerryCoffin Ya I was just wondering why that was the case because I've always declared my default constructors like this Vector() {} and did not that the was an option.
 
Ell
> I expected the answer
sounds very ominous
 
@LuisAverhoff That's defining the default ctor, not just declaring it. In any case, any ctor that can be invoked without any arguments can be used as a default ctor (but one like Vector() {} that doesn't initialize its members to a known state is usually a poor one).
 
@JerryCoffin I know it was a poor one but I just wanted to save typing time so dont worry :)
 
@sehe Wat
 
3:32 PM
My thought
@Ell or is currently worries
 
@LuisAverhoff Eliminating debugging time is much more valuable. I'll admit, however, I'm not consistent about whether it makes sense to write even trivial demo code as it really should be, or concentrate exclusively on what it's supposed to demonstrate. Generally I prefer to write it well as long as it doesn't introduce side issues that distract from the matter at hand (but maybe that's just me).
 
@JerryCoffin Alright you see you later
 
@LuisAverhoff Bye.
 
Xeo
4:05 PM
@EtiennedeMartel is just game
 
-19
Q: Should there be experts to review disputable answers?

KryptonSometimes the community does not really judge an answer on its correctness, but rather on the reputation of the one who answers (or some other reasons). For example, although the first answer to this question got the most votes, it does not correctly answer the question (read the comments to see...

^^ ahaha
 
@Mysticial So he posted a shit answer but figured that this was because the community was against him and not because it's a shit answer?
 
:33147915 that's good. I'd write 05 instead of 5.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial wow that answer is shit
Somebody throw him a virtual class
and let him see how it likes that
 
user1593881
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks a lot Martinho.
 
4:17 PM
Reminds me of my early C days. You know the metal works, but not how the language works.
 
@Xeo I think it's time that the "experts" give their real opinion of his answer by voting to delete it.
 
@Mysticial oh my god, the comments
some higher order Dunning-Kruger we have here
 
@Xeo no need, really. There are enough cases of vulnerabilities caused by compilers optimizing away uninitialized reads and code that depends on them.
 
4:32 PM
First I'm not saying it gonna work in a large system, but you cannot tell it won't either. Secondly this has absolutely nothing to do with error tracing (even with inheritance). You can access all the functions/attributes exactly the same way as they are with a normal C++ allocation/initialization. — Krypton 3 hours ago
 
4:56 PM
Any bets on my being accused of bullying again?
2
A: Should there be experts to review disputable answers?

Jerry Coffin@jaunchopanza's answer may be incorrect based on a technicality about English grammar--he uses the phrase "the only way", when there may be alternatives (but to be honest, I'm not at all sure there is any). Nonetheless, he outlines a technically correct method to do what the OP asked about. As su...

Thanks @R.MartinhoFernandes. My day is now complete! :-)
 
lol @ jerry "bullying"
 
You're a bully. — R. Martinho Fernandes 2 mins ago
^^ ahaha
That's the first C++ post in a while that has gotten both meta'ed and lounged.
 
@Mysticial I am disappoint. Nobody's joined my move toward deletion (though I can understand resistance to ending the morning's drama).
 
5:30 PM
I did
 
> This post has been deleted.
lol
(That original answer.)
 
as per usual I think I captured the essence of it best
 
5:49 PM
@Puppy That pretty much goes without saying. If you didn't think (rightly or wrongly) that it was a contribution, you wouldn't have posted.
@Puppy ...and another one bites the dust. Though I see Nicol thinks it shouldn't have been deleted--and I can even sympathize with his position to an extent.
 
I used "C/C++" in a way that makes sense.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You claim it's sensible, despite knowing full well that C/C++ still gives UB. :-)
 
user1804599
6:04 PM
I want to answer Stack Overflow questions again.
 
Most interesting questions have already been asked and answered.
 
user1804599
Making people understand something is fun.
 
user1804599
The questions suck if their authors don't care about them.
 
user1804599
If the authors care, the questions are often fun.
 
@rightfold Have you thought about teaching as a career?
 
user1804599
6:10 PM
No.
 
@fredoverflow Once you have some experience, you should consider that. I'll bet you'd be goo....ummm, wait. :-)
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow My first answer in a decade: stackoverflow.com/a/39754838/1804599
 
user1804599
And yes, the pun in "That's the point of them." was intended.
 
6:30 PM
@JerryCoffin this is perfect
 
<rant about group members here>
I feel better.
 
@milleniumbug Thanks.
 
user1804599
So how's OCaml going.
 
user1804599
Stepped over your fear and stubbornness?
 
user1804599
6:40 PM
Or still suffering from it?
 
I prefer o_snake.
2
 
user1804599
OCaml uses Bjarne_case for modules and data constructors.
 
user1804599
I like snake_case because it's both systematic and not ugly. HTTPFoo is nice but not systematic. HttpFoo is systematic but fucking ugly. http_foo is both nice and systematic.
 
user1804599
And systematic casing makes editing easier.
 
user1804599
You can use things like editor macros and searching more easily.
 
6:43 PM
@rightfold Nothing will make editing macros (aka emacs) easy to use. :-)
 
I'm trying to figure out how to make my bibliography.
 
user1804599
LaTeX.
 
Right, I'm in LaTeX.
Trying to figure out the specific arcana to compile it and have it update and reference things properly.
 
@ThePhD Typing it tends to be popular, though if you're feeling adventurous you could try a voice to text program.
 
user1804599
Sometimes compiling twice is what you need.
 
6:53 PM
Eh.
\begin{thebibliography} will do it for me for now
I'll move to bibtex for the full report later.
 
7:36 PM
I have to admit I'm doing a LOT more fuckery with LaTeX than if I just wrote this in Word.
 
Ell
@ThePhD what are you writing?
 
@Ell Small proposal / report thingy.
 
Ell
What more work are you doing?
 
Formatting tables.
In word I'd just merge some cells and do some clicks.
Here, I'm basically dying.
Textual tables -suck-.
 
7:54 PM
@ThePhD Get a template from this: Create LaTeX tables online
 
Ell
@ThePhD I'll give you that one
Tables do suck in latex
 
Fuck.
BIKESHED:
Vector and matrix types
Currently, for the language itself, I want to have float16/32/64, (u)int8/16/32/64 by the types for the integral constants.
 
@ThePhD What with it?
 
But I also want to have "vector" types by something like
float2 float3 float4
 
Oh, I thought you meant something in LaTeX. :)
 
8:02 PM
@wilx Nah, just plain ol' language name bikeshedding stuff. :P
I guess float32_3 wouldn't be the worst crime I've committed... ?
 
@ThePhD Use float3v instead? Or add a keyword vector(2) float32? :)
 
@wilx Ooh, so like stitch types together.
That'd actually be kinda neat.
vector2 float32
Gets kinda verbose... but, eh. 3v sounds nice, too!
 
Ell
vec2f, vec3f, vec4f etc..
vec2i, vec3i, ...
 
Now I need to do matrix syntax.
I think I'm partial to either <typename>[ fixed_size ]+
Or... well, actually, yeah, that's what I'm partial to. :v
If you leave off fixed_size then that dimension will become non-compile-time and shit.
 
Ell
mat4f
aka what's wrong with the way glsl names them? :V
 
8:10 PM
I mean, I'll have aliases.
But they're essentially just arrays.
2-dim arrays will be passable to all matrix functions
1-dim arrays will be passable to all vector functions
1-dim arrays will also be considered single-row/column matrices
tfw the shitty table generator doesn't generate correct latex.
SIGH.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD take a look at Fortran.
 
user1804599
It has a bunch of built-in vector operations.
 
user1804599
And related features, like functions that automatically work on each element of an array.
 
8:27 PM
that sounds pretty shitty
 
Only color types I know of are CMYK, RGB(A), and HSV
 
sRGB
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Pantone, CIELAB, CIEXYZ, YPbPr
 
user1804599
YPbPr is super rad.
 
@rightfold <_>
YPbPr is used for HDMI but gdi that's probably too hardcore for me
 
user1804599
8:33 PM
I think YCbCr is used for HDMI.
 
user1804599
YPbPr is used by analog systems, like those red–yellow–white wires on old TVs and game consoles.
 
user1804599
And maybe SCART?
 
Ooh.
Ugh.
Now I have to figure out how to size my table.
 
user1804599
YCbCr is useful for lossless compression without going full GIF.
 
God.... damnit.
 
8:39 PM
Choose a lossless default and provide an extensible interface to convert that format into a new format.
 
@ThePhD Size it how?
 
user1804599
@wilx Viagra.
 
@rightfold :)
Fortunately, I do not need it, yet. :)
 
@wilx To make it fit on the page.
Text overruns colums, things spill out, it looks horrifically ugly.
 
user1804599
Are you using LaTeX tables?
 
8:43 PM
{table}, and then {tabulary}
Should I do it differently?
 
Ell
tabular
idk what tabulary is :V
 
user1804599
haha LaTeX tables
 
user1804599
RIP
 
This is the best I have so far.
I can't get it to size in.
 
user1804599
Argh that hash sign.
 
user1804599
8:44 PM
My eyes.
 
user1804599
Make it smaller.
 
Later. :v
 
user1804599
lol cubert
 
user1804599
too much Futurama
 
Ell
also
 
user1804599
8:45 PM
it's called cbrt you badlet
 
It was either that, cube_root, or cbrt like sqrt
 
Ell
you're writing a spec for your language?
 
I'm writing a proposal for it
The baseline
 
user1804599
how about root(n, 3)
 
@rightfold That would be nice, too.
Maybe root<3>(n)
 
user1804599
8:46 PM
root_3n :3
 
idk
 
@ThePhD Specify the column as p{3.5cm} (choose the width yourself) or as something like p{0.4\textwidth} or some such.
 
That sounds... horrifically explicit.
 
@ThePhD It is but that is how it is done. Remember, TeX is for books typesetting. LaTeX is just a bunch of macros making it easier for normal people who are not Knuth. :)
 
Ell
@ThePhD it's explicit in word too right vOv
 
user1804599
8:49 PM
If you want semantics only you should look into something like HTML.
 
user1804599
LaTeX is for looks.
 
A nice library feature would be an arbitrary-width type for each of the primitive types. E.g. Integer, Float, etc
 
float32 can conceivably be expanded for that.
 
user1804599
Contrary to popular belief, induced by cancers like Bootstrap, it is possible to separate structure from looks to a great extent with HTML and CSS.
 
E.g. float16, float 48, ...
 
user1804599
8:51 PM
Since like 2005.
 
But float48 wouldn't really make much sense.
You'd have to generalize something like IEEE754 floating point to N bits.
That's a bit hard to do. ;;
 
I mean a vector-like class so that after the primitives run out, you can wrap as much memory as needed for a representation after over/underflows
 
Oh. Like python's float.
 
Yeah. No worries though, it's a high-level feature when you're still fleshing out the low-level. Check out markup languages if you need lighter-weight, less explicit typesetting btw
 
user1804599
LLVM supports integers with any static bit width.
 
8:59 PM
up to 2^21 I believe directly in IR
and LLVM has an arbitrary-size integer class as part of the API
 
user1804599
3-bit integers.
 
user1804599
What happens if you put, say, 7-bit integers in an array with LLVM?
 
user1804599
Will it pack them? Or leave 1 bit padding?
 
pretty sure that LLVM guarantees 8-bit bytes and 1-byte addressing, so it would have to pad them.
not entirely sure, though.
 
void or unit ?
I'm thinking unit might be more applicable.
 
user1804599
9:06 PM
If it doesn't pad then you get super easy vector<bool> ;p
 
And just overall better.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD void is commonly used for a type with no inhabitants.
 
It's a bit like the opinion I expressed a while ago about numerical literals: support the necessities like decimal, binary, and hexadecimal, and then provide generic support for user-specified ones if any non-necessities are to be included.
 
user1804599
One thing you must not do is create an abomination like C++ void.
 
Ell
@ThePhD get both
 
user1804599
9:07 PM
Make it a proper singleton type instead.
 
@rightfold The type which shall not be named
 
user1804599
unit should have an actual value that you can pass around.
 
user1804599
Only then polymorphism will work well.
 
I'm fond of rust enums because they solve that problem; polymorphic types, but you at least know the types it is restricted to.
 
uint and unit are too close in terms of name
That's a spelling nightmare.
void it is.
 
Ell
9:09 PM
Rust enums are just ADTs right
 
user1804599
ATS calls unit void, and () has type void.
 
But void will be a regular type.
 
user1804599
@Ell Yes.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD How do you write its value?
 
Ell
Although. Rust enums can't be parametrized by type?
 
user1804599
9:09 PM
@Ell They can: enum Option<T> { Some(T), None }.
 
@rightfold {} or () or I'll just make a built-in value nothing.
 
Ell
Ah okay
 
@Ell Pretty much. They're just a type-safe union. I think variant is the term for it in computing science
 
I think nothing would be good.
Or just none.
 
user1804599
Values of the unit type convey no information, so nothing would be reasonable.
 
9:10 PM
Then I can recycle it for optional.
And other stuff.
 
Ell
@ThePhD call it nout
 
user1804599
Don't use the same word for unit and empty optional.
 
user1804599
It's incredibly confusing to both the programmer and the type checker.
 
:l
 
user1804599
@ThePhD will you have tuples?
 
user1804599
9:12 PM
If so, just use the empty tuple for unit. :)
 
Please, one headache at a time.
 
@ThePhD Haha, of course being programmers we all want to help you steer ^^; I'll relax about suggestions
 
You can suggest stuff, just don't expect me to actually put it in the proposal. <_>
 
user1804599
Or if you add structural records, unit can just be the empty record. :p
 
I'll trust you not to make LePerl; I'm honestly proud of you whenever you show off the specs on sol
 
9:16 PM
Ugh.
Now you reminded me that I've got bugs to hunt down.
 
user1804599
Link to repo
 
Which repo?
The language one?
 
user1804599
yes!
 
There's literally nothing in it. :l
 
user1804599
Does somebody know Japanese? @Xeo perhaps? What does "わぁいRalph LaurenあかりRalph Lauren大好き" mean? Google Translate isn't helping much.
 
9:21 PM
yeah a fair few of the anime guys in here
 
Rapptz knows Japanese
I know only a few words because I'm a scrub.
3
 
Ell
@rightfold ahh nice
Of course
 
user1804599
Tuple does product, (a, b, c) is a * b * c. Empty product is 1, as is unit.
 
@rightfold What's that suppose to be?
Looks a lot like a spambot, but if I knew context...
 
user1804599
@ThePhD ThePhDちゃんはばか犬です。
 
9:25 PM
@rightfold ^^; 犬が可愛いですけど
 
Why are hyperlinks so ugly.
Ugh, whatever. Content first, formatting later.
 
user1804599
nice thanks for the link
 
But anyways, that looks like "Wow, Ralph Lauren is so flashy! I love Ralph Lauren!"
 
@ThePhD That is the default. I think you need to use colorlinks=false with hyperref.
 
@rightfold Well, there was nothing there but now there is something.
 
user1804599
9:30 PM
yay
 
user1804599
lol pdflatex output
 
Only output I can really use at this point. This shit's due in 5 hours. vOv
 
user1804599
XD
 
Welp.
Time to blow 1 hour on showering and eating and being a decent human being for a little bit.
 
Ell
10:04 PM
@ThePhD especially when its due in 5 hours :V
 
@Ell Someone else was supposed to work on it over the weekend, and they promised me latex and other formatting.
Now it's my job.
github.com/ThePhD/lepix/issues/4 I also need to figure out which of these approaches I'd like to do most.
 
Ell
@ThePhD go for llvm & spir-v & opencl
 
@ThePhD In case you were't already aware of it, Khronos has (at least the beginning of) an LLVM IR -> SPIR-V converter: github.com/KhronosGroup/SPIRV-LLVM. I'd tend to plan on targeting LLVM-IR, and using that to make it work on a GPU.
 
Ell
Spir v is based off llvm I think so may be similar
 
SPIR-V is not directly compatible, but there is a converter or something.
 
10:09 PM
@Ell Yeah, supposed to be.
@ThePhD Yes--linked immediately above.
 
@JerryCoffin ♥ Thanks
I'll put that in the isuse.
That still means I need to make a C++ bootstrapper and then compile that.
 
@ThePhD Unless you can find a machine that runs C++ directly as its machine code! :-)
 
Plus, Vulkan's model doesn't necessarily include ways of reading in or writing out data to the GPU aside from using the explicit transfer through the Vulkan API.
Which becomes a bit problematic when I want data to get off the GPU and be returned to the user.
I'd need to find a way of wrapping the entire Vulkan API as well in LLVM IR things I can use and then being able to call those functions to ship data to and from the GPU.
Someone's probably done this before, so I'll just have to go digging some more.
 
@JerryCoffin I didn't know that + That's really neat. Thanks.
 
Xeo
@rightfold I don't think that sentence makes any kind of sense... but that's just me.
 
user1804599
10:19 PM
@Xeo Hmm.
 
user1804599
I got it from here: twitter.com/i_akari_daisuki
 
Xeo
ah, okay. Then "waai" is just a cheerful sound, the name is just thrown in (maybe to go with a song's rythm?) and the main message is prolly 「あかり大好き」 = love Akari (character name you see there, from Yuru Yuri)
Since the name seems to be what changes in the pattern of the messages.
Maybe it's also a specific reference to something in Yuru Yuri, can't say, haven't seen it.
Yeah, all those tweets are just 「わぁいXあかりX大好き」
 
@CaptainGiraffe Sure. Warning: I'm aware of this, but have never used it, so I can't vouch for its working well (or at all, really).
 
@Xeo Goddamn, I really need to learn to at least read katakana and hiragana.
 
user1804599
@Xeo thank you わぁいXeoあかりXeo大好き
 
10:27 PM
@Xeo But given the text, and the translation, I was able figure out that it's read as "A-ka-ri Dai-su-ki".
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Yes.
 
I know that あ = "Ah".
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Also, get Rikai-chan / Rikai-kun (FF or Chrome extension). Really helpful :P
 
And 大 is "dai". (or "big" since I still remember a few words from my Chinese class.)
 
Xeo
But really, hiragana / katakana aren't very hard to learn.
 
10:30 PM
@Xeo Initially, the あ at the start of the sentenced tricked me into thinking it's supposed to start as "ai-steru-yo" or something like that. But 大 in the middle made me realize that can't be it.
If the あ was supposed to be the sound for "ai", I half expected 爱 to be at the beginning.
Fuck, I've totally forgotten all the Chinese characters/Kanji that I learned 4 years ago.
 
user1804599
The one for tree isn't that hard
 
user1804599
Also river and dog
 
Ell
TIL email addresses can contain nested comments
And quoted things
 
user1804599
@Ell yup! Parens on either end of the name
 
I return.
Time to get back to writing bullshit LaTex.
 
Xeo
10:44 PM
@Mysticial Fun, rikai doesn't show anything for that. Looks almost the same as 愛 tho. weird.
 
@Xeo It might be a simplified vs traditional Chinese thing.
 
Xeo
Guess Japanese changed that hanzi a bit.
@Mysticial or that
 
Reminds me of when I asked my cousin (who speaks English, Mandarin, Japanese) to translate an English article into Japanese.
Being native Chinese, she did all the Kanji as simplified Chinese. To her it looks the same. But not to Japanese readers. lol
IOW, the article ended up being only readable to Chinese/Japanese bi-literates. It was amazing.
 
Does VC++ not have std::iota ...?
Oh, it's defined in numeric.
That's helpful.
 
@ThePhD yes, it does. Did you forget to include numeric? Oops, too late. But I was right.
 
10:47 PM
Not algorithm.
@JerryCoffin Yeah. I'm not sure why certain algorithims are placed in numeric, to be honest.
It's like.... VEERY specific ones, and very specific bits.
 
user1804599
Accumulate is in numeric too 😂😂😂😂😂
 
Xeo
@Mysticial haha
 
@ThePhD Somebody thought of them as entirely different from the other algorithms--even though, for example, accumulate is really just a left fold, one of the most fundamental foundation algorithms.
 
11:07 PM
Hum.
I guess I'll let main be the program entry point.
I got triggered and ended up fixing 2 errors in Sol since @Aaron3468 mentioned the repo. qq
Anyone have any preferences for how to write Code in LaTeX?
My gut tells me to just use listing.
 
Ell
Alisdair Meredith's "C++17 in breadth" is great!
 
Why codebases wither
 
Ell
@ThePhD lstlisting
 
11:22 PM
@Borgleader my_life.jpg
I forgot how to make an ampersand in LaTeX...
Bikeshed for language: sq_rt or sqrt ?
 
sqrt of course
 
log2 and loge versus log_2 and log_e ?
 
If In Doubt, Do As The Stdlib Does
 
This is for a new language.
With a new stdlib
 
sqrt plz
 
11:33 PM
It might have a new standard library
There is only one true stdlib (read: C)
 
11:44 PM
Hello, Cruel World!
 
@ThePhD Obviously follow the ultimate example (MS BASIC) and name it sqr.
 
My god tables are shitty.
I want to move on but the shit formatting is literally drilling into my eyeballs.
WTF Tex Studio
Insert ™
The program fucking CRASHES
with an access violation?!
Are you kidding me?
There goes my ENTIRE Codegen writeup, FUCK.
 
Xeo
did you not... save?
 
@ThePhD ouch
 
I wrote up a paragraph, went to add the TM, and the hit save, and then it just crashed with an access violation.
 
11:51 PM
@ThePhD Notepad FTW!
 
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