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Ell
10:01 AM
Yeah you're right, I'm not sure why I thought absolute was a good idea
 
Did std::optional<T&> make it?
I'm getting convinced it's really only useful for generic code.
 
it didn't
 
Given that std::optional<T> has op-> and op*, I'm doubting the idea that it really forces you to consider that it's null.
f()->g() worked with pointers and skipped a null check, and it does the same with optional.
It's UB with both.
 
Xeo
I only know that Unreal's TOptional has no <T&> specialisation :(
I wanted that one once
not for generic code
but to make it explicit that it's an optional parameter
Since lotsa parameters in Unreal are T*
 
Yes, the library can implement a null check in a debug build, but then, wouldn't we gain more if compilers simply put that on pointers?
The interface trying to behave like a pointer makes me really nonplussed.
 
Xeo
10:18 AM
Wasn't the original argument that using a pointer-like interface would remind people that it may not be set?
 
and it reminds them in the same way T*::operator-> does
i.e. it doesn't
and we don't even have fmap on it or matching
 
@Xeo Were that true, pointers would be just fine, no? They have the most pointer-like interface available.
 
I'd say the argument is that the types express the intent
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv
I'm not saying it's a good argument
 
so by std::unique_ptr you express taking ownership, by std::optional optional values
instead of the approach of taking T* for everything
 
10:24 AM
@milleniumbug unique_ptr gives you more than expressing intent. It actually enforces it.
@milleniumbug I don't disagree with that, but I feel like the interface didn't stick to that.
It's a politician promise.
 
10:55 AM
death of OpenGL makes me so sad
I hope they are gonna release 4.6 as a bugfix
at least to keep it alive
 
hey boys, can optimization cause bugs to arise?
 
of course
isn't that the point of optimizations
a.k.a. job security
 
they also make the program run quicker, don't they?
a lot quicker
especially -Ofast
 
yesterday, by Bartek Banachewicz
@набиячлэвэлиь -OBartek
 
11:11 AM
ofcourse. thats why people dont like the part of optimizations @ChemiCalChems
you guys heard of the Unreal Engine?
 
Xeo
2 hours ago, by Xeo
lolz. Unreal breaks if you name a widget blueprint animation "Content".
Yes. "Heard" of it.
More like getting whipped by it every day
 
@ChemiCalChems I'd say that the bugs are already there. Optimizations just might make them visible.
(Discounting compiler bugs)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes That also means bugs were already there and optimizations just made them visible (just not in your product)
 
@Xeo Well atleast its imaginary :) (ik its a terrible joke)
 
Xeo
... I kinda expected some kind of substantial statement about it.
Or a help vampire request. Because that's what people usually come here for.
 
11:17 AM
@Xeo I like how he still managed to disappoint you.
 
Ven
:c
 
11:40 AM
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
those people
 
rekt :P
 
well thats the usual response for #osDev
"Dont know about it? Read up 2000 pages on intel x86 manual"
 
I'm not the one having problems with them. — Bartek Banachewicz 15 secs ago
shots fired
 
user image
8
 
11:44 AM
lol
 
i dont see any shots
 
they are figurative shots
 
@user5600875 they have been frustrum culled
 
@sehe there are religon believers here . . .
 
@user5600875 where?
Hi @Lalaland
 
11:46 AM
@user5600875 No doubt. Are you saying they lack sense of humour, or that they think paintings that refer to biblical scenes are sacrosanct?
That would be really weird because I'd have to inform a few of my friends that they are doing that "religion" thing entirely wrong.
 
@BartekBanachewicz this room
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Good morning.
 
user406009
Trying to get rust to compile to ASM.js this morning. It's sorta not working well.
 
@sehe its just that some people take religon seriously here ...
 
@user5600875 I'd say if they're offended with this completely innocent picture, they deserve it
 
11:49 AM
@sehe Wouldn't you need a table for 28?
 
@Lalaland ASM.js ? lol
 
user406009
@user5600875 Well, it's better than the alternatives.
 
what is that Javascript code suppose to do @Lalaland ?
 
user406009
Compiling directly to native would be annoying because then it's much harder for people to install things. And I just want to make a simple game, so no one would bother.
 
user406009
@user5600875 Trying to make a simple game.
 
11:50 AM
2 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
who wants to write a game in Terra with me
always an alternative
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz This is more of an experiment than a game.
 
@Lalaland well, what problems are you having know? Who has the main?
@Lalaland lol you made it sound almost like Terra wasn't an experiment in and on its own
 
user406009
It's just to answer one question: "Can I do multiplayer lag compensation?"
 
You can't.
 
user406009
So, the "features" are going to be pretty non-existent.
 
11:52 AM
I actually have a project from uni where we did lag compensation lying around somewhere
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz I have a couple of ideas to do a somewhat ok job.
 
I also had them and they all worked terribly ;)
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz It would helpful for me to see that if you still have a link.
 
@Lalaland looking for it now
 
user406009
No point trying the same bad ideas twice.
 
11:53 AM
do you have a bitbucket account
 
github > bitbucket
 
is it though
 
@user5600875 there are bitbucket believers here...
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Yes. Name Lalaland. Email ethan.steinberg@gmail.com
 
@Lalaland gave you access. I have to warn you this was based on the code provided to us by the terrible uni tutor
 
user406009
11:55 AM
I think I'll probably have to give up on Rust -> ASM.js and go back to C++ -> ASM.js
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Thanks.
 
Zad2 branch has some predictions
I wouldn't be surprised if you found all this useless
but eh code is code
also comments in Polish weren't made by me obviously, I tried to touch this shit as little as possible
 
@milleniumbug yes , yes it is
 
I mean I did at least fix fucking formatting I think, when we got it it looked like the worst SO questions
> Mostly tedious indentation fixes
 
@user5600875 yes? I do too. What's the problem with it, exactly?
Is it mocking? Think about it. What does it mock? Does the bible say there was no waiter? Does the bible say the table was factually that long and, yes, importantly last supper was shared with this table layout? If no, shouldn't we actually ban the paintings for misrepresenting the Bible? Should we, perhaps, punish the painter because he made a depiction of God?
Maybe, just maybe, you have to think first. Because there is clearly no mockery here, not even for the painter. It's even appreciating the art by mentioning it.
 
11:58 AM
@user5600875 so?
 
You would be the first programmer I know that doesn't appreciate a nice lateral observation for what it is.
 
@user5600875 yes except this repository was made back when github didn't give private repos for free
oh wait it still doesn't
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Wait, I can't seem to find the networking section?
 
Anyone wanna live stream for youtube?
 
sure @AlbanianGamerYT
 
nwp
12:01 PM
@sehe apparently even sehe can be triggered
 
@Lalaland hmmm shit maybe zad2 was local.
 
I dont know any other site to get people to participate on a live coding session
 
@nwp I like to teach
 
nwp
@AlbanianGamerYT twitch.tv and livecoding.tv
 
user406009
12:01 PM
 
no i said i dont know where to egt people to enter my live stream
 
@Lalaland Zad1 had networking there.
 
@AlbanianGamerYT why does it need my camera?
 
I can't remember which task was doing the lag compensation
 
np turn off camera
 
12:02 PM
aaaaand there were subsequent tasks I didn't commit there
 
it requres it
requires*
 
6 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
I wouldn't be surprised if you found all this useless
 
you can turn it off remotely
 
kk sec
 
@AlbanianGamerYT that's not a youtube live stream
that's a hangout session
 
12:04 PM
yeah
but can live stream on youtube
 
also looking at other people writing code is boring af
 
have option to start broadcast
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz That's fine. Thanks for the help anyways.
 
yeah but i was thinking of just a little rock paper scissors game for begginers :)
 
@AlbanianGamerYT write a blog post
 
12:05 PM
where?
 
on your blog
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Thanks for the offer, but I'm not too interested in fiddling with Terra. I am much more interested in actual game features like lag compensation and whatnot.
 
i joined?
 
yes you did
 
kk so what lol?
 
12:06 PM
@Lalaland Sure. Just bear in mind that you can't get UDP in the browser reasonably
I mean there's WebRTC but that's gonna be a whole different thing
 
i changed my mind it will be boring to live stream with strangers(no offend
 
lol ok
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Already done :) github.com/Lalaland/DataChannelServer
 
user406009
It's pretty much a direct UDP stream.
 
nice
ugh OP deleted his question after he edited it
ffs
i was in the middle of answering
 
user406009
12:13 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Was this the "transformation" question?
 
nwp
@AlbanianGamerYT I would recommend just trying it out on twitch, see if you like it.
 
@Lalaland yes
 
user406009
Well, it was probably your comment which made him delete it.
 
nah
he responded with "I edited is it clear now"
and then deleted it
 
user406009
Probably due to embarrassment.
 
12:14 PM
I wonder if I could build RAII in Terra
 
user406009
@AlbanianGamerYT If you want more watchers, you can post in advance in reddit.com/r/watchpeoplecode
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz What's the supposed main advantage of Terra?
 
@Lalaland just one?
mmm....
 
user406009
Easy binding to Lua? So you could write most of your engine in Terra and then run Lua scripts easily for gameplay logic?
 
I think metaprogramming is the biggest one
but in general it's a super weird language
it can build executable code in runtime, but as opposed to say JS or Lua, it builds native code
 
12:19 PM
C++ Can be used to make a lot of things.... everything
 
it's like having direct API to JIT
@user5600875 noone cares
 
@Lalaland watch people OsDev :)
@BartekBanachewicz wow ruuuddeee
 
fuck C++
is that better
geez
 
yes 100%
 
12:20 PM
Fuck Programming
 
welp so how do you call a vector if "vector" is already taken
 
nwp
Vector
 
hah
actually
 
Vector2
 
that suggests it's a vector of two components
maybe DynVector
 
12:23 PM
i use Vector2 normally
but to be honest, it's not vector thats taken
it's std::vector
 
I mean stuff like std::vector
 
or Vector_Dyn
 
@ChemiCalChems not in Terra
 
Vector_Purpose
 
terra vector is an SSE "vector"
 
12:24 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ok, didn't know we weren't talking about c++
nothing to do here
 
I never talk about C++
unless when I say how bad it is
 
-1
Q: C language for my homework

Keong Kian LeeUnlimited looping problem #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> int seatclass; printf("Class Required (0, 1, 2)? "); scanf(" %d", &seatclass); while (seatclass != 0 && seatclass != 1 && seatclass != 2) { printf("Sorry no such class available\n"); printf("Please reenter the seat class ...

2
 
LOL @milleniumbug
 
Ven
LOL indeed.
 
super LOL
 
12:25 PM
mega LOL
downvoting
 
upvoting
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Ok. I see. That is rather interesting.
 
am i being stupid or does c not require int main?
 
user406009
Seems really useful for writing a PL interepreter.
 
@Lalaland you can also manipulate Terra types as Lua values.
@Lalaland or an actual compiler. It's actually trivial.
 
12:26 PM
@ChemiCalChems C Does not require int main
 
After you parse the text, you just need to build terra expression that does literally what the code should.
then save that as a binary
 
@user5600875 that's fucked up, but thanks
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz You can however play similar games by compiling to C or some such.
 
it basically dosent run.... yes its fucked up
 
user406009
Although it's ugly string manipulation at that point.
 
12:28 PM
@Lalaland yeah. And in terra you a) have immediate binary output b) work directly with terra code which is typechecked and stuff
 
user406009
@ChemiCalChems What do you mean by "require"? Every C executable needs an int main(). (Or WinMain whatever on windows, but that's stupid).
 
user406009
However, C libraries and other C objects don't need an int main.
 
they probably mean that int isn't required in C
 
he probably means implicit int
 
@Lalaland the guy in the question never specifies an int main
no no no
i'm saying the guy never defines main, no where in the code
 
12:29 PM
who cares
 
@Lalaland that's obvious, they aren't executables after all
 
@Lalaland but yeah for interpreters it's different because you can immediately run the compiled code
 
user406009
@ChemiCalChems Yeah. His code is invalid, but that's because he has expressions like printf() outside of a function.
 
@Lalaland that's what i'm talking about
 
user406009
He could have void my_stuff() { // his code } and that would be valid.
 
12:30 PM
he doesn't close his while either
@Lalaland i know i know
 
yes it would @Lalaland
 
@Lalaland if it were to be a library of course, but that seems to be an executable, so that code is fucked up in a lot of levels
 
nwp
having void foo() take arbitrary arguments is so dumb, I wish C wouldn't do that
 
yes there is a lot of things C could do better
terra Vector:_realloc(newCapacity: uint64) {
    var newBuf = [&int](C.malloc(sizeof(typ) * newSize));
    C.memcpy(self.data, newBuf, sizeof(typ) * self.size);
    C.free(self.buf);
    self.buf = newBuf;
    self.capacity = newCapacity;
}
hysteric laughter
oh wait I got order of memcpy wrong
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz My only comment is that the dynamic code generation feature doesn't seem to be worth practically coding in C.
 
12:38 PM
@Lalaland It's missing libs, but it's far away from C
 
I'm still angry at this documentation thingy, how do I stop caring?
 
I mean sure it's not a high-level language
that alone makes it savage tool
but it's... powerful
 
user406009
Does it have some way to do memory cleanup?
 
user406009
Other than manually freeing everything?
 
nwp
@Shoe by realizing that you never cared about rep anyways
 
12:39 PM
I did though :(
 
nwp
guess you're screwed then
 
@Lalaland I am pretty sure you can abstract over "manual" freeing in some way
 
I got job offers out of that
 
user406009
@Shoe What's wrong with the documentation thing? It's an easy way to get rep or something?
 
while the base level is C-like, the abstractions offered are vastly superior
 
12:40 PM
@Lalaland very easy
 
nwp
@Lalaland only if you know how to game it, and that isn't easy
 
Ven
@Shoe really?!
 
C++ core doesn't have a way to abstract manual memory management either, it's unique_ptr and vector that actually provide that
 
really
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Well, C++ core has destructors.
 
user406009
12:41 PM
And everything is built out of that.
 
user406009
Similarly, Rust provides you both destructors and lifetimes.
 
@Lalaland you can rely on Lua's GC I think if you want a GC
 
@Lalaland buggy repcap (as in, not working) for starters
focusing on examples is another one
 
but if you want destructors you'd need to implement them
which I am pretty sure would be possible
 
@Shoe bullets
 
12:42 PM
actually it's pretty weird that C++ doesn't have a GC
it would make sense for a lot of things
 
Ven
What?
 
@Lalaland also, the most of the entries are rewrites of canonical questions on SO
 
Ven
C++11 totally has a (optional) GC. How could you forget?
Did you forget? :-)
 
yeah. he's bartek. Lot's of things make sense given motivation
 
@Ven and no one cares about it
 
Ven
12:43 PM
@sehe Lot is and lot are
 
user406009
I see that @sehe is slowly become more American. The first step is understanding that more guns is always the answer :P
 
Aug 25 '15 at 11:58, by sehe
Bullets solve all the problems
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Nah, it wouldn't make any sense.
 
Ven
@sehe Not the problem of "not enough bullets"
 
The fact that Lua doesn't have += though
is vexing
 
user406009
12:44 PM
A GC is fundamentally incompatible with destructors.
 
also 1 based arrays
 
@Lalaland nonsense.
 
@Lalaland wouldn't say "fundamentally incompatible", but just problematic
 
@milleniumbug Funny enough, Terra has 0-based arrays, which makes them incompatible with Lua ones
 
user406009
The primary issue is that a GC has non-deterministic destruction while destructors offer deterministic destruction.
 
12:46 PM
so?
 
user406009
This becomes especially apparent when you have cycles.
 
@sehe That's the 2016 way alright
 
class C { gc_ptr<T> t; }
when C goes out of scope t is left to be collected
 
@Ven That's the primary problem they solve
 
dunno maybe it doesn't actually make sense
 
Ven
12:47 PM
@sehe or is it
 
Aug 18 '12 at 23:28, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@sehe Bullets.
 
Have RAII based objects reference counted, and use mark and sweep on everything else
 
user406009
Yes! Rust for ASM.js works!
 
nobody is safe now
 
Compilation to js is for some reason a huge pain
 
12:54 PM
@sehe I'm a visionary.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1216151&seqNum=7 is an article which talks about some of the problems you run into when you try to use RAII with a GC.
 
@Lalaland that's "shitty finalizers", not RAII.
 
user406009
It's for Java's finalizers, but I think some of the comments are useful and would pertain to any implementation which tries to use RAII and a GC.
 
it's like the opposite of RAII
 
Jul 26 '12 at 21:30, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Insilico There are few problems that can't be solved by finding the right people and shooting them.
 
Ven
12:56 PM
Nondeterministic destruction, lol.
That's gonna go well with locks.
 
user406009
@R.MartinhoFernandes Including the problem of people running around and shooting people :)
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz It actually works amazingly well for C++ with emscripten.
 
user406009
And it will probably work well for rust as well, they are going to mainline ASM.js support very soon.
 
user406009
I'm just too impatient to wait the two weeks.
 

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