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Ven
4:00 PM
@Griwes it's from Harhar News.
 
I do not know what that is.
 
Ven
Hacker news.
 
wow, supposedly there are no downvotes on HN, but more retarded comments are highlighted with gray color somehow.
> I'm talking about C++ lambdas, in particular, which are templates under the hood.
 
HN's highlighting is failing I think
 
Ven
4:07 PM
@milleniumbug Yeah, gray = downvoted to oblivion
It's not highlighting fail. It's when other people recognized "this content is retarded"
Deer jesus.
 
Then why aren't all HN comments grey
4
 
4 mins ago, by milleniumbug
> I'm talking about C++ lambdas, in particular, which are templates under the hood.
 
Ven
@CatPlusPlus Because the other people with accounts on HN are also morons
> > Most of the unsafe C++ code is written by the "C with C++" sub-community that are mostly C refugees forced to use a C++ compiler.
> I haven't seen any evidence for this. A lot of vulnerabilities are found in modern C++11.
Maybe read some badlet C++ code???¿¿
> I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that C++11 is less safe than C++03 in terms of use after free, because of features like move semantics and lambdas.
Oh yeah, because move puts your object in invalid state and because we always capture by ref in lambda. Right. I forgot about that.
tl;dr c++ sucks but your reasons are wrong
 
How unexpected
> I'd LOVE to see some Linux web/micro benchmarks...
 
@nwp Good thing I'm so stupid I can no longer remember what a smartass I must have been when I was 20.
 
4:20 PM
@CatPlusPlus In relation to what?
 
.NET Core
 
Ven
.NET Korn
"VB OUT"
 
nwp
@JerryCoffin It took some effort to not comment on #define typeof(T) ###T not compiling, but I did it
 
I always known abs() was a disaster in C/C++ because of all the fugly overloads and variants like llabs(). I just found out that std::abs(long long) returns a double. That makes it an epic disaster.
 
> These are respectively accessible as rng.context, rng.from, and rng.to (or in one go: auto& [ctx, low, high] = rng;).
it begins
 
4:24 PM
@Mysticial wut.
 
@Mysticial It's "fun" because some overloads are defined in one header and some in another header
 
now that’s a question, how do you write a structured binding constraint?
 
What the hell - does visual studio's c++ compiler no longer have ostream_iterator in the std library?
 
Maybe you're hitting that issue
 
template<typename Thing> concept bool MyTripleThing = requires(Thing thing, auto& [a, b, c] = thing) { … };
 
4:26 PM
Someone at work asked how to take the absolute value of some internal fixed point number object. That escalated all the way to my manager who pointed them to me. Now I know why it escalated.
 
let’s check if defaults are allowed in a requires param list
 
@OneRaynyDay Have you included an appropriate header
 
@milleniumbug In visual studio 2012, I didn't need to add a header, let me try that :o. I think VS silently includes the majority of the std library?
 
@OneRaynyDay Duno--it was there yesterday though.
 
> A local parameter of a requires-expression shall not have a default argument.
 
4:30 PM
@OneRaynyDay Not really--but VS 2012 makes pretty liberal use of the permission for one standard header to include any or all other standard headers. More recent versions are much closer to each header defining only what it's required to define. You need to include <iterator>.
 
and since simple and compound requirements work on expressions, not statements you can’t requires { int i = 0; } either
I guess you can requires(Thing thing) { [](auto& [x, y, z] = thing) {}; }
C++: why make things straightforward?
 
Ah, thank you :) I didn't know see this discrepancy in the change. Thanks @JerryCoffin ! I don't know why Visual Studios compilers are always changing in their specifications :(
 
> error: lambda-expression in unevaluated context
really
 
Buahaha.
 
> A requires-expression has type bool and is an unevaluated expression (5).
fascinating
welp, I’m out of ideas
 
4:35 PM
@Mysticial You pretty much need to include both <cstdlib> and <cmath> in order to safely use std::abs. It's a disaster indeed
 
The best part was that C++11 escalated the disaster from "my house is crumbling" to "Defcon 2"
 
double abs(Integral) was added in C++11.
Oh, you did notice it.
 
mmh declare void triple_check(auto& [x, y, z]); and constrain on triple_check(tri) then I guess
 
4:39 PM
and check the header of each one of these
 
what would you call auto& [x, y] = foo;? A pair binding? Pair bindings? A pair destructuring?
 
I'd call it Robert
 
obviously the standard calls it a decomposition declaration.
concept bool PairDecomposable it is
 
Ven
@LucDanton rekt; pretty much
 
@Ven pls, I eventually beat it
by otherwise needlessly polluting namespace scope, which I am in no way salty about
 
Ven
4:46 PM
link it
 
8 mins ago, by Luc Danton
mmh declare void triple_check(auto& [x, y, z]); and constrain on triple_check(tri) then I guess
(not that I have a compiler to check if that makes any sense)
 
@Mysticial What else would you return?
 
also annoying because auto&& [x, y, z] is another form of decomposition and so forth and so on, so even more pollution if you want to start handling all that
 
What's [1, 2, 3] in C++ again?
 
Hey guys - is there a checked_iterator that supports type ostream_iterator? VS15 is throwing a warning that I don't want to suppress blindly
Looked on their documentation and I only see checked_array_iterator, which probably isn't what I'm looking for
 
4:54 PM
"Tuesday" too similar to "Thursday" say experts
For a moment there I thought tomorrow was gonna be friday
 
oh, looks like those bindings are for block scope and for-range decls only
@Ven rip
 
Ven
@LucDanton oh yeah true :D
 
I’m never surprised that a new feature is not SFINAE-friendly (or requires-friendly these days I guess), but I’m always disappointed cc @R.MartinhoFernandes @Xeo @Rapptz
 
Ven
5:09 PM
stoi la sfinae
 
sfini de mal parler oui
 
In the newest Factorio you can stop forest fire by throwing some grenades to destroy burning trees <3
 
@OneRaynyDay Nearly all compilers have been doing pretty much the same thing.
 
@Shoe long long like std::abs from <cstdint> does
 
@milleniumbug For a second, I saw the "shoe long long", and wondered if this had degenerated into a discussion of women with big feet...
 
5:25 PM
alright I’ve whined about it written a helpful post on the situation on the concepts group
 
user image
14
ABORT! ABORT!
3
 
user1804599
6:03 PM
Eluveitie is awesome.
 
I like the old albums: Spirit and Slania.
 
6:33 PM
> error: call to non-constexpr function '_Tp std::exchange(_Tp&, _Up&&) [with _Tp = bool; _Up = bool]'
have we learned nothing
interesting, std::swap doesn’t look to be constexpr either
 
@LucDanton We never learn anything. We just give new names to the old things.
 
Yes, this means checking if every C++ feature works correctly wrt to another one takes O(n^2) time
 
@milleniumbug It would only be quadratic if you were restricted to using two features together. Since you can use essentially all features together, it's more like factorial.
So, the biggest language we can verify has no more than 14 features...
 
This also means the more qualifiers you have, the more you'll be likely to forget when designing the interface for your library.
 
@milleniumbug That's why PhD's can't write good libraries--they're over-qualified.
5
 
6:41 PM
Oh, you
 
mmh, you remember the good ole days of : boost::non_copyable? cc @sehe
these days I sometimes use : move_only or equivalent
I thought it might be helpful if move_only kept track of its state to catch use-after-move bugs in non-release mode
I’m under the impression that copy/move elision prevents some asserts from firing though
now I’m not sure if that kind of instrumentation is useful at all
the nuclear option is to check the invariant in the destructor, but that prevents the type from being literal. I’m not sure if I would use a non_literal_move_only
 
@LucDanton Better: there are plans to make almost all of <algorithm> constexpr, but not std::swap, nor std::iter_swap.
@LucDanton I've got that exact type somewhere.
 
@fredoverflow Dunno, but this being gamedev, a.) I'm surprised they care b.) it's ironic because Unity uses freaking Mono
 
Ell
I don't know why unity would use mono
Instead of JVM
 
nwp
6:55 PM
because everyone "knows" that java is slow, mono doesn't have that image problem
 
Ell
I thought that image died 10 years ago
 
nwp
I would not expect it to ever die, not in that community
 
@Ell Still alive and kicking
 
@Ell Maybe, but the Garbage Collector can't remove images, only memory.
 
6:57 PM
I'd say this is the fault of the built-in GUI frameworks
the JVM isn't that slow nowadays
 
nwp
and games are not that performance critical either, but it doesn't matter
 
Ell
They're soft realtime though
Or w/e its called
 
What is soft realtime? Nobody dies even when GC takes too long?
 
Yeah, I'd say soft realtime = when lagging, product experience degrades, and hard realtime = when lagging, people die
 
nwp
I recently thought about chandler's compiler talk where he said something like "C++ is not fast, languages cannot be fast. C++ just gives you the tools to take performance into your own hands". Now I think it is wrong. You can implement the same algorithm in say C++ and Python and it will just be faster in C++.
I think I'm way too easy to impress with smart-sounding sentences.
 
Ell
7:07 PM
But he's right
I mean theoretically
A sufficiently advanced python compiler could produce the same assembly
But what do theories matter vOv
 
nwp
"C++ is not fast, it just happens to have compilers that optimize the shit out of your code"
 
Python is a bit of a special case, as it's dynamically typed and you can't make many assumptions during translation time
 
@Ell No, it really can't.
 
e.g. since the types can vary at runtime you can't devirtualize and inline calls
 
sufficiently smart whole program optimization etc.
 
7:11 PM
if you could do that in a way that would work in 100% of cases, you'd be able to solve Halting Problem
 
yep.
 
@milleniumbug but otoh, that doesn’t discount doing it some of the time
 
@milleniumbug So what about First Person Shooters? ;-)
 
nwp
there are probably python bindings for unity and unreal engine
 
@fredoverflow I don't understand the format of this page. Is that a list of comments on a certain topic?
 
nwp
7:14 PM
arguably that is cheating, but it does mean you can write your shooter in python
 
@Shoe It's like a Wiki (...actually, Wikis are like that page)
treat it like a Wiki discussion page
 
So they are different comments from different people separated by a <hr>?
 
This man has never seen Wiki, amusing
 
@Shoe yeah, with some of the responses edited directly into the posts
@набиячлэвэлиь oh, educate yourself, ignorant one
 
@milleniumbug :O why would I be the ignorant one in this context?
 
7:19 PM
oh, I thought it was a response to me
carry on then
 
I was obviously mocking Jeffff :v
 
I have no idea what you mean by wiki, but the wikis I've seen are nothing like that page
Except maybe that both have words written in it
 
Wiki as in WikiWikiWeb
 
The endocrinologist never answered my calls today ç___ç
 
nwp
why does that make me imagine morwenn howling in the woods? :P
 
7:30 PM
Hardly.
More like me getting angry in my car then at home.
 
@EtiennedeMartel facepalm
 
What? It's cool. The guy has fans.
And it's not like he really has anything to do with it.
 
7:58 PM
> Removed crafting stations and crafting vendors from WvW maps.
@KretabChabawenizc
> The WvW tick timer will no longer drift and is now always based on an absolute time.
lol
 
8:09 PM
@StackedCrooked nwo that ansatsu has ended, I have time for a new anime! a must-see recent anime recommended?
 
I'd say Bakuman but it's not recent.
 
Ven
Oh, I need to catch up on re:zero. I'm only at ep7
 
@fredoverflow Someone should make a linux distro called Plan B.
 
Ven
mmh, re:zero while writing my lisp in perl. sounds fun
 
... something something attack on titans
 
8:12 PM
Meanwhile, I didn't manage to do anything at work, and I'm unsure whether it's because I suck at Javascript, Polymer, HTML, OpenLayers or CSS.
 
Ven
ew attack
 
Or a combination of all of them.
 
on the slightly more serious side, I'd say deadman's wonderland, dgrayman, kabaneri(?)
 
the best thing about Deadman Wonderland is its opening
 
you like the song?
 
8:15 PM
Just like the old Hellsing.
 
the series goes south near the 8th episode
so the series not that good, but also not that bad
 
Is it similar to the manga or no? I remember it being a pretty good series about a year ago when I used to read it
 
Dunno about the manga, I've heard it's way better
 
Oh, that's unfortunate :/ I don't watch anime but I guess my assumptions about anime == manga is farfetched
 
Sadly, the anime has an anime-specific ending
 
8:19 PM
damn that actually sucks - why would they doubt the author's judgements like that :x
 
Asamiya-san no Imouto was an excellent manga. Too bad it was so short :(
 
@fredoverflow The usual definition is that it's acceptable to miss some specified percentage of deadlines by up to some specified amount. Hard real time doesn't necessarily involve people dying either--it could just be things like fines that are unacceptable.
 
@OneRaynyDay In 99% of cases this is the result of anime covering only a part of the manga (if the anime is based on a manga)
So the creators have to resort either to cliffhangers or gecko endings (i.e. where anime has its own ending)
 
Why the decision to only cover a part of the manga though?
too long of a storyline, or innapropriate for anime viewers?
 
@fredoverflow As with most arguments about languages, it means: "I disagree with you, but if there are any facts to support my position, I'm too ignorant to be aware of them."
 
8:26 PM
Unless the manga is reaching its end, it's most likely the anime will overtake it
A 20 min episode is released per week, and one chapter is released per week
 
The original FMA anime was far different from the manga for example.
They even had to do another anime.
 
If the chapter is like 20 pages, then you can fit 2-3 of them inside the anime episode without filling it with your own inventions
 
true true :/ that's unfortunate
Maybe that's why Naruto and the mainstream ones have a ton of side stories
(or fillers or whatever they're called)
 
If the series is long-running, then you can resort to fillers, yes
 
I see
 
8:30 PM
But if you only have 12 episodes to make and the ongoing manga has 30 chapters now, you're pretty much guaranteed to have a cliffhanger or gecko ending
 
would the viewers usually rather watch an episode per week or wait for the manga?
 
I've seen series releasing one episode per month, but these aren't usually broadcasted on TV
 
gotcha
 
@milleniumbug What is gecko ending?
 
@wilx Several endings.
Like geckos.
 
8:34 PM
@wilx When you adapt a work to another medium, but you invent your own ending.
 
I see.
 
@wilx ...said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw.
 
@OneRaynyDay IME whether you get a cliffhanger or a gecko ending depends on whether the studio plans to make another season in the future
These days even long-running series can be made into 12 episode anime, maybe to see if it will sell
then you can make another season of it next year
 
@Ven re:zero looks like fun; you're hereby officially added to my lounge-advisor list wrt. anime
 
8:51 PM
@ScarletAmaranth @StackedCrooked recommended that to be. I already had it on my to-do list, but bumped it higher.
 
@Mysticial considering assassination classroom is over and boku no hero academia's season 1 has ended, I can squeeze in a new one! lucky day for me :)
 
9:04 PM
@milleniumbug gotcha, cliffhangers if there's super hype
 
Xeo
@Mysticial @StackedCrooked I take it back, don't read Meikyuu. The cliffhanger at the end of the Grand Route is just the worst. Wait for Rakuen to come out.
 
@milleniumbug I wish Big Order had a gecko plot
lua is such a weird language; syntax in that Basic/Ruby niche and it triggers my VBasic PTSD
 
Xeo
@ScarletAmaranth I'll wait till it's out in full and just binge it in a day
 
@Xeo I don't have time for this kind of arrangement :(
 
@Aaron3468 Visual Basic seems tolerable, it's VBA which is traumatic
 
9:16 PM
Visual Basic is tolerable until you reach the edge of its tiny standard library; I had to copy-paste code that converted between 5 standard classes and performed GUI math just to resize images
 
I'll be going to sleep. See you.
Considering how much I talked today, it shouldn't make a difference .____.
 
lua is fun though because it doesn't use the + operator for string concatenation; definitely helps reduce ambiguity.
I think a positive feature of any language is well-supported numeric and string types, which are also disambiguated from eachother
After that, I love good GUI and networking support. TL;DR: I love easy I/O libraries so I can focus on algorithms
 
Ven
9:45 PM
@ScarletAmaranth to be fair, I know it from the manga
@Mysticial let me recommend it again ;-).
 
@Ven wtf episode 2 doesn't make any sense, it's as though it doesn't follow from ep1 :-\
 
Ven
you'll get it soon enough
Believe(tm)
 
I am very close to just stop watching, I had to triple check that I didn't skip an episode :-\
 
Ven
You'll get it. Trust me.
 
@Ven Don't need to do that. I've been watching it. I marathoned the first like 5 episodes then threw a fit over whatever cliffhanger was at the end of that because the next episode wasn't out yet.
 
Xeo
10:40 PM
@Mysticial Play Meikyuu. I wanna see your fit over that cliffhanger.
And Rakuen will only be out in a couple of months.
 
11:10 PM
Question
const char[] x = "Blah";
std::array<const char, std::extent<decltype(x), 0>::value> xa(x);
Legal?
This is dumb. The assembly generated for a const char* SUCKS compared to a const char[5], when doing compares.
 
@ThePhD It's no because of the constructor
There's no constructor that takes an array
You have to pass iterators
 
Well, I'm initializing it inside of a tuple.
I don't get to pass it iterators.
 
wat
 
std::tuple<my_special_decay_t<Args>...> t; t(std::forward<Args>(args)...);
 
How is that related to the code above?
 
11:16 PM
Becaonse my_special_decay_t changes const char[N] to std::array<const char, N> so it can be stored inside of the tuple properly.
I can't have a tuple with std::tuple<const char[5]>.
 
What are tuples anyway? Unchangeable arrays or something?
 
I can cheat an assume all const char[] are immutable data passed as const strings and just store a reference, but that's exceptionally dangerous.
 
@ThePhD Why can't you put it into a string?
 
@Shoe Because that puts it behind a runtime barrier and the compiler cannot optimize it if it's beyond the SSO limit.
 
Why is storing a char const* const in the tuple dangerous then?
 
11:21 PM
That's not dangerous. Storing a const char(&)[N] generally is.
 
You can't store references anyway
Just use char const* if you want super efficiency
 
Should store pointers to pointers to pointers
 
Also copying each character into an std::array is barely any different than creating an std::string, unless you are intentionally avoiding dynamic allocation
 
Intentionally avoiding dynamic allocation and preserving the size information so I can abuse it later on for slimmer generated assembly code when doing comparisons.
These extra compares are killing me.
If I don't use recursion, I can't early exit.
If I do use recursion, I overflow the fucking stack.
 
11:28 PM
tailrec opt
 
Fucking parameter packs are crappy.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Pffffff.
 
Popped up in my twitter feed
 
lol
DONT DRINK THE RECUSION
 
11:32 PM
Didn't photoshop that myself
 
gg
 
you know this whole Windows 10 upgrade thing is making me glad I've got a version of 7 that they're unwilling to upgrade for free
 
it was free (with school) and now it's not incessantly pestering me
win-win
 
Is ^ the right way to make a public class that can't be inherited?
 
11:37 PM
what are you inflicting on the compiler now
 
A C++ UUr
Should be much easier than C#
 
UUr?
 
Undefined.Undefined.run()
 
... What.
 
Does what it wants, whether it be crashing or printing 1
 
11:38 PM
<_>
 
I went over this whole thing like 20 times already lol
 
I for one enjoy loops that cause integer overflow
I wonder if I can find the proper release the kraken thing I posted to Coliru
 
This should sum it up for you @ThePhD
 
nope
 
11:40 PM
Why are you writing this useless thing.
 
Y not?
Actually has 50 downloads now :D
 
Because your time isn't something that should be wasted?
 
I have nothing better to do
 
I had assumed it was to prove that there could be UB in C# if you worked hard enough but since he's doing C++ I dunno
 
Have one for Java too
 
11:41 PM
@Darkrifts That seems hard to believe.
 
The Java one is a bit less random
I just run some RNG, flood the memory and junk, and return whatever I wan
 
you monster
 
@Xeo If it follows the Anime, then it's not a real cliffhanger.
Also fuck you for trying to get me addicted to new stuff.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Didn't watch the anime
But the cliffhanger in Meikyuu is fucking evil
 
Also can freeze the *runtime for ~2.814+e11 seconds and run the garbage collector
~1/5 chance of crashing the whole application
It doesn't even have a definite return type. It only has ~3/5 chance to return a long and a bit less than 1/5 to return a String
 
11:46 PM
oh so it is defined, just unpredictable
I am disappoint
 
ikr
Java is incredibly explicitly defined
Idk any way to really work around that
Still just floods the memory, wipes it with gc(), and chooses one of many predefined options to enact
 
user406009
Eh, in many ways Java is much more flexible than C++.
 
Flexible, yes. Flexible for making UUr (dont ask), no
 
user406009
There is always JNI?
 
It's explicitly defined, so I can't just let my code choose a destiny for itself, like you can with UB in c++
Or C# with the UUr library thing I made
 
11:51 PM
@Xeo I don't exactly remember where in the story it cuts between the two series. I heard good things about it. When I looked into it, I found it had a 1st season. So I had to marathon that and half the second season to catch up to live.
 
Xeo
Kajitsu, Meikyuu, Rakuen
that's the trilogy
Kajitsu and Meikyuu are translated
Rakuen will be in a couple months, prolly
 
IIRC, the second one was a movie that sat between 1 and 3. It was a flashback to the guy's past.
 
Xeo
ye
but meikyuu doesn't stop at the flashback
it goes a bit further
just to get the cliffhanger in
I really wish it stopped at the flashback ;_;
 
cliffhangerpls
 
It's a good show. Watch it!
You know you want to.
 
Xeo
11:58 PM
What, Grisaia animu?
 
Yeah.
 
Xeo
why would I watch that if I have the VNs?
also, Kajitsu adaptation was rushed as fuck
I've come to simply not trust VN / LN adaptations
I'd rather skip them and read the original material
 
I guess the VN will probably have multiple routes for all the girls. The Anime tends to only pick the true ends.
 
Xeo
tho Steins;Gate was amazing
@Mysticial Kajitsu animu had all routes, each 2-3 episodes or sth
 
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