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9:00 PM
lol
 
sbi
On the upside, my radio station has played Neil Young only for a whole hour, and is going to play another hour.
 
@Pubby is 92, he must the oldest here...
 
Ell
no way is he 92?...!?
 
Pierson's Puppeteers, often known just as Puppeteers, are a fictional alien race from American author Larry Niven's Known Space books. Biology and sociology Pierson's Puppeteers are described by Niven as having two forelegs and a single hindleg ending in hooved feet and two snake-like heads instead of a humanoid upper body. The heads are very small, containing a forked tongue, extensive rubbery lips, rimmed with finger-like knobs, and a single eye per head. The Puppeteer brain is housed not in the heads, but in the "thoracic" cavity well protected beneath the mane-covered hump from which...
 
@Ell yeah. Check is profile
 
9:01 PM
For reason I don't believe @Pubby. I don't say it's impossible, though.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I notice some reluctance still from some colleagues. But they keep quiet because the team manager is on my side. However, sometimes when I introduce something with templates they loudly complain "Why does it need to be so complex!?".
 
@Pubby are you really that old (or young)?
 
@StackedCrooked If it's not asking too much, how much power do you hold in your job?
 
No, I'm 5000
 
Ell
9:02 PM
@daknøk don't say it like that
 
@Pubby so, did Jesus really exist?
 
@Pubby Days?
 
sbi
9 hours ago, by sbi
@CheersandhthAlf What the hell are you talking about??
 
@daknøk I am Jesus
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I've been working there for two years and still a relative newcomer. However, my influence has been growing steadily.
 
9:02 PM
@Pubby I see.
 
@Pubby So you're hispanic.
 
15 hours ago, by Cheers and hth. - Alf
@sbi you missed out on the puppeteers disappearing. only the General Products representative was left, and he 2 disappeared about an hour ago
this makes no sense
it was starred too, why?
 
Jesús was actually a hispanic puppeteer.
 
was Jesus a hipster?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Start from the one I quoted above. (It'd much easier to understand had you read Niven, though.)
 
9:03 PM
He was the original hipster
 
@TonyTheLion I starred it because it makes perfect sense!
 
@sbi ah, another book reference, I won't even bother trying to understand it then
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion But the robot had already posted the explanation!?
@RMartinhoFernandes So did I.
 
this is crazy slightly NSFW
 
"300k queries per second" that's many queries.
~2.6e11 per day.
 
9:09 PM
> "I'm fairly sure if they took porn off the Internet, there'd only be one website left, and it'd be called 'Bring Back the Porn!'"
 
oh noes, a TVtropes link
 
If they took all porn of the Internet the Internet would be trice as small.
 
I don't want to ruin my evening, night and next day
 
"If they took porn off the Internet" -> mission impossible
 
true
lol
 
9:10 PM
@TonyTheLion are you actually laughing out loud?
 
If anyone has time to try to compile clang on windows, let me know
I have a guide that needs testing
 
> Reality check: only 1% of all websites on the internet are pornographic.
how many sites on the internetz?
 
few billion
 
I think there's more websites than people on planet Earth, so it's still a lot of pron
 
@TonyTheLion Ha, you are reading the TVTropes link.
 
9:12 PM
damn you
 
Anyone have any fancy templates for converting endianess?
 
Ell
in c++ is a char always an octet?
 
@Pubby Boost.Endian?
 
depends on implementation
 
Ell
hmm okay
 
9:14 PM
(I did reinvent it myself if you want something not as powerful as boost).
 
@Ell depends if a byte is an octet
 
1 byte is not guaranteed to be 8 bits on every implementation
 
Ell
oh :S
 
sizeof(char) is defined as 1 and sizeof returns the size of the operand in bytes
so it depends on the bits in a byte on that system
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I actually just need to use it in 1 function :S
 
9:15 PM
This is what the standard says: "Objects declared as characters (char) shall be large enough to store any member of the implementation’s basic character set."
 
Lemme grep the chat.
 
@Ell no, but very very commonly
 
Ell
How do people write serializers and file format readers and whatnot if you can never be sure of the number of bits in a byte? or do you just have to write a lot of platform dependant stuff?
 
@Ell in POSIX, always an octet
 
@Ell I think so, what else can you do but write platform dependent stuff, and just cover all the platforms
 
If you MUST have exactly 8 bits, use uint8_t or int8_t.
 
@Ell they assume that it's always an octet, and say if not, use someone else's library
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Cool, thanks.
 
@Ell it can be done in a platform independant manner, but it's probably slow, and nobody cares
 
@daknøk FWIW, uint8_t and int8_t only exist on platforms where char is already 8-bits.
 
9:17 PM
Meh, stupid Swing makes buttons wrong size and I can't persuade it to stop.
 
@daknøk realistically, I don't see how that's any better than static_assert(CHAR_BIT==8, "NO");
 
@MooingDuck lol CHAR_BUT. And I agree.
 
Ell
I'm just thinking because at the moment to serialize an int I have just done outstream.write(reinterpret_cast<char*>(&myint), sizeof(myint) (off the top of my head, but I'm newb) which will mean it will be different on 32/64 bit wont it?
most likely?
 
@CatPlusPlus You don't have to tell it to stop using the wrong size. You have to tell it to start using the right size.
 
I added a space to the label.
Talk about silly workarounds.
 
9:18 PM
First resort.
 
@Ell same, but will differ depending on the processor due to endian-ness
@Ell htol I think is the function you want (or that family of functions)
 
@CatPlusPlus This is a question that is very answerable by SO.
 
Ell
@MooingDuck I'm just writing binary data so I thought because int is bigger on 64 bit (is this where I'm wrong?) it would be bigger so when the 32 bit tried to read it, it would fail
 
@StackedCrooked I found the problem in my lib. Just cleaning up the fix now
 
9:19 PM
@Ell int is 32 bit on almost all windows/linux platforms
 
@jalf Cool!
 
Layouting in Swing is weird and painful.
If I can calculate the values myself faster than use automated layout, something is wrong.
 
was basically a const correctness issue. So far, I hadn't made open_r a const function because it modifies some class members. But I need to be able to call it on the assignment operator's argument
so made it const, and made the variables in question mutable
 
@Ell If you want to be certain, be certain: uint32_t.
 
feels a bit iffy, usually try to avoid mutable, but couldn't really see a way around it
and the operation is logically const, so I guess it's fair
 
9:23 PM
Ok.
@jalf Btw, I almost eliminated all mutexes from my Tetris game.
 
cool
 
hmm, I got tomato in my keyboard. If I die, tell my girlfriend you love her. Wait, I think I got that wrong...
 
so is it an improvement, in terms of readability and simplicity and such?
 
It's been a difficult refactoring for me. Because it requires me to think in a different paradigm than I'm used to and because the code was originally written with locks. I removed some functionality in order to speed up the refactoring and plan to add it again soon. I think I'll be able to some evaluation then.
 
ah ok
 
9:26 PM
I think the major potential advantage of STM is that there is less waiting going on.
I don't really care about the no-deadlock advantage since I never had any.
 
:)
personally I mainly like the composability. That transactions can be nested and you can write code that is just thread-safe regardless of how it's used
 
Didn't really use nested transactions.
I once got some strange errors when nesting. I probably should have dug deeper and posted a reproducible sample if the error turned out to be inside STM. But in the end I removed the nesting and it worked.
 
well, you don't need to. But you can just create a transaction if and when you need it, and not worry about what it looks like to the calling code. With locks you always have to consider whether the lock should be exposed so others can try to acquire it, which is really a kind of ugly implementation detail leaking out
ah ok
 
Ell
can someone tell me some songs similar to Jeff Beck's "Where Were You"?
the kind of powerful music?
 
My current approach now is to have create the atomic scope at a user event or timer event. All underlying API's require a tx& parameter. So that allows me to handle everything in one transaction.
 
Ell
9:31 PM
@StackedCroo oops sorry for interrupting the convo with irrelevant stuff, I thought it had finished :L
 
ah, I'd generally avoid passing tx parameters around. If you call a function which needs to use a transaction, it can just create its own
that way it doesn't have to clutter up the API either
so the transactions become just an implementation detail
 
oh, @StackedCrooked you made your tetris game with transactions?
 
@Ell well, it's a chat room. Chat away. ;)
 
@jalf Good point. It definitely adds some clutter :D
@TonyTheLion Yeah, I used @jalf's lib.
 
@StackedCrooked that's what I meant with the composability. You don't have to think about whether the caller already has a transaction going on, or whether you're going to call something which will need a transaction
at each level of the call stack you just create a transaction if you need one
and all the nesting should *just work*(tm)
 
9:34 PM
@jalf It's not too much work to change it. Mostly deleting stuff. I guess I'll do that next weekend. This way I'll also see if I can reproduce the weird errors I once got before.
 
@TonyTheLion yeah, he has the world's most complex threaded Tetris codebase, so we figured it'd be interesting to use it as a test bed for my lib
@StackedCrooked ah ok. Anyway, that's just how I'd use the lib. Do what you find most intuitive :)
 
@Ell What about this one?
 
Ell
@DzekTrek hmm not sure about the brass and its a bit too quick for my personal taste. Is this what paul simon's "I'd rather be a hammer than a nail" is based on?
 
@Ell I have no idea, but I suppose it is.
What about this one then?
 
Gee. Reading the chat backlog is a joy today.
I wonder whether it has to do with my ignore list :)
 
9:38 PM
@jalf One feature request would be to have stm::shared<T> have a default constructor if T is default constructible. It's kind of awkward to have to explicitly initialize like this: stm::shared<std::vector<std::string> > mystrings(std::vector<std::string>());
 
@StackedCrooked yeah, it has one now, actually. :) That drove me nuts too :)
 
@jalf ah, so he's using your lib do to his synchronization?
 
@TonyTheLion yeah. Well, in the process of converting his code to do so
 
Ell
@DzekTrek I think we are thinking of two different kinds of powerful here :P
 
@jalf woah, but I can imagine your lib must be quite complicated?
 
9:40 PM
@TonyTheLion Ask @StackedCrooked, I guess ;)
I think the api is simple enough, but then I designed it ;)
 
I read some of the code and it's quite dense indeed :)
 
right, but I'm talking the implementation details
 
@Ell :) Yeah, everybody has different taste for the music.
 
Usage is indeed quite simple.
 
do you use lots of templates?
 
9:41 PM
@TonyTheLion oh right. Yeah, some of those are a bit hairy ;)
yeah
 
ah
did you have to do a lot of reading and research do to this?
 
Argh, lack of default arguments.
 
well, the api is completely template-based, since nothing else really makes sense. But the backend is less so, since it has to throw away type info (it stores objects of arbitrary types into a char buffer, and then copies them out later, so that can't really be templated)
 
Java! shakes fist
 
it was my masters thesis, so yeah :)
 
9:42 PM
It's supposed to be hard :D
 
@je4d good to see you back in here; I think I saw you answering a Spirit question the other day? That means we can share the load!
 
@jalf woah, I suddenly feel stupid :P
 
why?
 
@sehe heya, good to see you too
 
@jalf cause what you're doing sounds so hard and complicated, donno if I could manage it
awesome you're doing it though :)
 
9:44 PM
@sehe that spirit q was a bit of a lucky strike, I've only used spirit for a trivial code generator.. but i spent hours doing a binary search on the example to find out that it was the include i was missing
@jalf what's this stm lib of yours?
 
@TonyTheLion well, you said it yourself. Just a lot of reading and research to get started ;)
 
@je4d Spirit is a bit idiosyncratic like that. The main reason being the error messages are all over the map for the smiplest of things.
Didn't know you could tag for btw. Honestly would never have thought of adding it
 
Eh, MSc. So far away.
 
@TonyTheLion I figured that comparing myself with others doesn't help me forward. I focus on something that I can manage and go with that.
 
@sehe yeah, it's one of those libs where if you get an error, it's generally more fruitful to stare at your code and guess what you've done wrong than it is to read the error ;)
 
Ell
9:45 PM
@DzekTrek this is what I mean by powerful: youtube.com/watch?v=RD4Gmwo0E_0
 
@sehe woah, that's pretty observant
 
@je4d Just a library I'm working on when I have time and can be bothered. :) Bit of info here: jalf.dk/blog/stm
 
List it on wiki!
 
@sehe I'd only just reached enough rep to retag, and was looking for an excuse
 
@StackedCrooked good point, bad habit of mine
 
9:46 PM
@jalf ta
 
Also, I have to survive only another year or so for BSc. Yay.
 
yeah, I guess I should. Would like to wait until I have a public repo up though so people can actually get the up-to-date code ;)
@CatPlusPlus Cool
 
@je4d I can certainly vouch for the inverse. Though I agree, you should always start out with a good soul search. Check your includes, check your usings/namsepaces, check your consts, check your Skippers, check your attributes, check your %=, check your #defines (BOOST_RESULTOF_USE_DECLTYPE doesn't work quite as well as the correct version).
 
@TonyTheLion but also, everything sounds complicated until you learn it. As far as my lib goes, the basic idea really isn't that hard to grasp. Took a bit of reading to see what all the fuss was about, and some thinking to decide what I'd like the api to look like, but it sounds more impressive than it is
 
@je4d Only then you should be looking at the error stack.
 
9:49 PM
tbh the hardest part was debugging the threading bugs :)
god, I got tired of race conditions
 
@jalf Well, you should have used STM then! Oh, wait..
 
;)
 
Good morning guys
 
@je4d: To be honest, I can find my way pretty quickly, but I use vim and use either :se cursorline cursorcolumn and map :cnext/:prev or I use errormarker.vim some of the time.
 
Implement STM by generating Concurrent Haskell code, compiling it in the background, running and returning results.
 
9:50 PM
do you know which version and from where to install mysql on my windows 2003 server.
 
that's the problem with trying to make threading simpler for others. You get to deal with all the complexity of it up front
 
i got a bunch of them from google but cant understand and connect them with my java program. i know this is place of C++ geeks but i know you geeks might also know this for sure
 
@je4d In all fairness errormarker.vim gives me the right hunch 'on reflex' just by the way the error highlights are spread through my own source. Be sure to say :make! so as not to jump to the first location listed by gcc - that will land you in the weeds by default
 
@CatPlusPlus the Haskell implementation of STM was really fascinating, btw. The papers describing it were one of my main sources of inspiration
 
@sehe Yeah, I guess they are useful for finding which line of code of yours instantiated something that led to an error - but reading the rest of it hasn't helped me much (yet)
 
9:53 PM
@jalf Guess why: because Haskell is awesome.
 
huh, i never knew about :make!
 
heh
 
@sehe :make without bang in C++ is always annoying.
 
@sehe i don't suppose you know where to get the right error parsing settings for recent gccs?
 
@je4d I only ever resolved any of my problems by closely reading that about... 10 times in all my 'work' with Spirit (mostly for recreation)
@RMartinhoFernandes I asume things might be better with non-gcc compilers
 
9:54 PM
I'm stuck with a vim at work that always opens a file called '0' when i use my build of gcc46
 
@je4d Probably a bad errorformat.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah, it is for sure - it's tailored to the gcc 4.2 format, but last i looked i couldn't find the "right" setting for gcc46
 
@je4d Erm. I make do with the defaults? There are glitches but on the whole, it serves me well (don't see me using stlfilt or stuff like that. It might be great, but I guess I'm too lazy to set it up everywhere)
 
i tried fixing it myself for a while, but my patience for learning the precedence and escaping rules in errorformat expired
@sehe fair enough - i only have issues because i'm using 4.6 on a RHEL4/5 box that has defaults for a much older gcc
 
@je4d @RMartinhoFernandes I just use the defaults from vim 7.3. Don'tsee big issues (other than the first location usually landing in an 'empty' buffer or something silly like that)
 
9:56 PM
@je4d Copy it from somewhere else?
@sehe Mee too.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes probably my best bet.. email it in from home
 
@je4d I'm using gcc 4.6.1 with vim 7.3 on basically all my boxes (except MSVC)
 
@sehe first location landing in an empty buffer is exactly what i'm trying to fix!
 
errorformat=%*[^"]"%f"%*\D%l: %m,"%f"%*\D%l: %m,%-G%f:%l: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once,%-G%f:%l: for each function it appears in.),%-GInfile included from %f:%l:%c:,%-GIn file included from %f:%l:%c\,,%-GIn file included from %f:%l:%c,%-GIn file included from %f:%l,%-G%*[ ]from %f:%l:%c,%-G%*[ ]from %f:%l:,%-G%*[ ]from %f:%l\,,%-G%*[ ]from %f:%l,%f:%l:%c:%m,%f(%l):%m,%f:%l:%m,"%f"\, line %l%*\D%c%*[^ ] %m,%D%*\a[%*\d]: Entering directory `%f',%X%*\a[%*\d]: Leaving directory `%f',%D%*\a: Entering directory `%f',%X%*\a: Leaving directory `%f',%DMaking %*\a in %f,%f|%l| %m
This is what I have (minus the --- at the end, that's there only to please the Markdown engine).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes thanks
 
9:58 PM
@je4d I suppose vundle/pathogen/GetLatestVimScripts are the 'modern' ways to do that (again, I'm too lazy to adopt it. scp/:he netrw works plenty well for me :))
 
Gosh, that's scary.
I'm glad I don't have to understand it.
Looks like Perl.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes +1
@je4d I have a snippet configured that is basically fragments from this: ideone.com/7qJjU to help me get on my feet quickly with a Spirit related query. Avoids the most basic traps/pitfalls. Simple as it is, that alleviates 'Spirit-error-confrontation-factor' brick-wall experience that usually happens for the first while one does use Spirit.
 
Ell
Can someone explain this to me?
 
Testicular cancer is cancer that develops in the testicles, a part of the male reproductive system. In the United States, between 7,500 and 8,000 diagnoses of testicular cancer are made each year. In the UK, approximately 2,000 men are diagnosed each year. Over his lifetime, a man's risk of testicular cancer is roughly 1 in 250 (0.4%). It is the most common cancer in males aged 20–39 years, the period of peak incidence, and is rarely seen before the age of 15 years. Testicular cancer has one of the highest cure rates of all cancers: in excess of 90 percent; essentially 100 percent if it...
 
@ell I think the implication is that the lump's on his balls, i.e. he's got testicular cancer
 
10:10 PM
lol
 
Ell
oh gee :s
 
@je4d lastly, if I need to make sense of the type declarations reported in these cryptic template error messsages, I have taken to reversing the burden-of-evidence: Instead of trying to workout what the compiler is complaining about, I tend to 'detect' the types that actually get passed by Spirit, e.g. using a polymorphic function object
@Shog9 making yourself useful :)
struct what_is_the_attr
{
    template <typename> struct result { typedef bool type; };

    template <typename T> bool operator()(T& attr) const {
        std::cerr << "what_is_the_attr: " << nameofType(attr) << std::endl;
    }
};
 
@sehe SE Staff: ruining bad jokes everywhere
 
@je4d like that ^^ basically. nameOfType is implemented with gcc specific library calls
@JohannesSchaublitb oh noes. a riddle
 
10:11 PM
@sehe what's the template <typename> struct result { typedef bool type; }; bit for?
 
Brain fart?
Arrrgh, I'm starting to think boost.asio is just plain unreliable on Windows.
How do you link that crap in?
 
@je4d It is to make up for the absense of resultof<> and decltype in c++03. In c++0x you can #define BOOST_RESULT_OF_USE_DECLTYPE and do without it
 
> undefined reference to `boost::asio::detail::task_io_service::stop()'
How can I find out where that symbol lives?
 
@sehe so how do you use it? by using it in a rule somewhere and seeing what gets printed?
 
@je4d writing it up as a Q/A combo on SO right now
 
10:20 PM
@sehe cool, thanks
 
I randomly got the Vox Populi badge without using the max votes in a day
 
22
A: "Votes cast" should include votes on deleted contributions

Nick CraverStarting with the next build, votes on deleted posts will be included in the profile counts. This will also apply to the various voting badges to match: Civic Duty, Electorate, Suffrage, Vox Populi. Also, the badge progress on review should remain accurate. Downvoting bad content (which usuall...

You should have earned it previously, but were too accurate with your down-votes for it to have counted.
 
@Shog9 Ah, I see. Too accurate?
 
@SethCarnegie Too accurate => the things you downvoted were bad enough to actually be deleted
 
10:29 PM
@SethCarnegie You down-voted stuff that needed to be - and was - deleted.
 
Oh I see
 
I got mine on meta too. I don't remember voting that much on meta.
 
Oh, also: there's a bug.
 
@je4d phew actually a lot of work :) hard to get a good example set-up. Halfway, though
 
10:32 PM
@sehe well don't give up now ;)
 
@je4d can't. have just posted the question. it begs the answer now.
 
@sehe have an upvote to keep you going..
 
@je4d I bet we'll have six good answers before long :)
 
@sehe I was tempted to try and put one in, but i know you've got a head start :P
 
@je4d go ahead, suggest
auto base_expr    = int_ >> int_; // avoids assigning to struct attribute

rule<decltype(f), mybase()   , space_type> base_       = base_expr;
rule<decltype(f), myderived(), space_type> derived_    = base_expr >> int_ >> int_;
 
10:37 PM
Yay, apparently my instructions for compiling clang on windows works, I just tested it on a non-dev computer I have
 
@je4d That's the simplistic answer to the concrete example :)
 
need another person to test them though
 
@SethCarnegie didn't @LucDanton say he fixed things up with just a couple of directory links? robot?
 
@sehe AFAIK Luc doesn't run Windows.
@SethCarnegie Didn't @Xeo apply?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes he's not around atm
 
10:39 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes true.
@RMartinhoFernandes ok, misread that then
 
Should I still ask (and answer) a question on SO about it
 
@SethCarnegie Wait till at least Xeo tests it. And if you can wait till Friday, I'll be able to test it.
 
@Mysticial Ok, and I don't know if you saw but I also tested it on another (non-dev) computer and it worked fine
 
@sehe Whoah no, that was for running DF on my system. With some 32-bit/64-bit SNAFU.
 
@sehe ok, so i've got as far as realising why your Q's code doesn't compile, which is fairly straightforward, but now i'm wondering - if i added a (mybase, int, int) constructor to myderrived, is there some fusion magic that would make it compile?
 
10:44 PM
@LucDanton See. Completely mis-connected that comment. I'm pretty sure it was at the same time you or others were commenting on Seth's hard work :)
 
@sehe if you read the instructions you'll see pretty much anyone could have figured it out
 
@je4d Look into the linked thread at the spirit-general user list. I delved into it to some depth but found no satisfactory answer.
 
I'm not sure why it's a big deal
 
@sehe ok
 
@SethCarnegie I fear the poison might be in the tail/devil in the detail. It will undoubtedly be something hairy related to ABI, calling conventions, cross-dll exception breakage, runtime initialization order thingie as usual. But I'm not up to speed with clang, so any bears I can spot sitting on the road might be teddy bears.
 
10:48 PM
"It might be good to close all other programs so that your computer can concentrate (...)" lol
3
 
@sehe You're right, I haven't tested any larger programs with it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes lol
 
@SethCarnegie Yeah... that might be a good idea to try...
 
Anyone here know anything about microprogramming for MAC-1
 
@sehe as per our chat:
0
Q: Compiling a simple parser with Boost.Spirit

wilhelmtellPart of a simple skeleton utility I'm hacking on I have a grammar for triggering substitutions in text. I thought it a wonderful way to get comfortable with Boost.Spirit, but the template errors are a joy of a unique kind. Here is the code in its entirety: #include <iostream> #include <...

:) And thanks for the help you already gave me! :D
 
10:58 PM
@wilhelmtell Ah nice. I'm in the middle of hacking another one up. Will post my code after that.
 
The code there is the original code I posted here, just for the protocol ;)
i mean plus the mistakenly-commented-out bit
 

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