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user1804599
4:02 PM
Is Factorio Turing-complete?
 
@rightføld yes
 
Get Life on it, then. What are you waiting for?
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
Have you seen Life on Life? It's crazy.
 
Hey, this is very good. May I edit it into the answer?
A number is a number is a number. What you call "scientific" is not a class of numbers. It's a class of representations of numbers. The same way that "twelve" and "12" and "XII" and "a dozen" and "IIIIIIIIIIII" all represent the same number. This "scientific" thing only exists when you decide to represent the number in some specific way (i.e. when you output it). Calculations don't "turn numbers into scientific" the same way that saying that "2 * 6 is twelve" doesn't turn numbers into English words. The variables always store the numbers not the representations. — R. Martinho Fernandes 31 mins ago
 
Sure.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's the result of years of preaching this.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh my god
should've seen my face at the end
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hahahahaha xD
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes PreacherBot
 
4:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes done; you're famous
 
Ell
work time
bye all
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you download Golly, it comes with a bunch of jaw dropping examples like that one.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Obviously not to a sufficiently wide audience!
I still see people trying to "store hex numbers" all the time. Had to correct it more than a few times at work, even. :(
 
The Abandonment of Animals Act 1960 (8 & 9 Eliz. II c. 43) was an Act of Parliament in the United Kingdom. It received Royal Assent on 2 June 1960. The Act made it a criminal offence to abandon an animal, or permit it to be abandoned, "in circumstances likely to cause the animal any unnecessary suffering". The offence was treated as "cruelty" within the terms of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 section 1 subsection 1, which as amended currently provides for a fine or up to six months imprisonment on conviction. The Act extends to England and Wales, and Scotland, but not to Northern Ireland. The...
 
oh also guys
 
4:21 PM
apparently its a crime to abandon animals in the UK
 
who wants to watch a tv series with me
Life After People is a television series on which scientists, structural engineers, and other experts speculate about what might become of Earth should humanity instantly disappear. The featured experts also talk about the impact of human absence on the environment and the vestiges of civilization thus left behind. The series was preceded by a two-hour special that aired on January 21, 2008 on the History Channel which served as a de facto pilot for the series that premiered April 21, 2009. The documentary and subsequent series were both narrated by James Lurie. == Format == The program does not...
this one
 
@TonyTheLion of course it is
@BartekBanachewicz From the episode list, that looks extremely US-centric.
though S2 improves on that
slightly
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit dunno. Still want to watch.
 
@BartekBanachewicz sure me too
Do I have a factual error here? Why the downvote, can you tell?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit because we don't like you
 
4:34 PM
@Abyx Would you stop?
Go accuse some more gays of being child molesters, or something.
> Sorry missed this. Out of time today. How are you fixed for Friday am?
> Like the World Cup draw.
^ me so witty
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Btw, a similarly intended comment that was made at a moment when I was feeling less inclined to explain everything:
A number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number is a number. :( If you want a string of digits, that's not what a number is. — R. Martinho Fernandes Jan 16 at 13:03
 
As you wish, I thought I'd ask here because I have to wait 90 mins to create a new post — Duckdoom5 3 mins ago
 
can i declare a variable template using auto?
template<class T>
constexpr auto pi<T> = T{3.14};
?
 
I never fail to be amazed how many people think this is sound logic.
"There is a limit in place, designed by someone for a purpose, that's preventing me from doing something without waiting for a while. Clearly this is a signal that I should do the thing right now instead, in an inappropriate manner."
@R.MartinhoFernandes snigger
@gnzlbg What happened when you tried it?
 
error: declaration of variable 'at_same_level' with type 'const auto' requires an initializer
constexpr auto at_same_level<T>{T::at_same_level};
I've also tried with = ...; and same error :/
 
none of the examples in cppreference uses auto
 
You should state which compiler you're using.
Always.
 
clang-omp 3.5 HEAD, i think its between 3.5 and 3.6
 
template<class T>
constexpr auto pi = T{3.14};
If it works, it's like that.
Your syntax is wrong.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I tried that first but it doesn't work either :/
 
4:40 PM
And surprise! Clang errors are so much bette—nope, scratch that.
 
strange clang diagnostic there
weird; coliru clang++ seems to be invoking GCC 4.9.0
 
lolwut
Has Stacked been lying to us all along?
 
huh, it was a minute ago but not now. I'll come back to that.
Clang 3.5 compiles your Robot's code, @gnzlbg; GCC 4.9.0 does not. Presumably that's an implementation thing. And no idea why your Clang was giving such a shit diagnostic for your original code.
 
4:43 PM
Yes.
 
FTR, GCC gives the same diagnostic with template<class T> constexpr T pi = T{3.14};
 
This is my actual code:
template <class T>
constexpr auto at_same_level<T> = typename T::at_same_level_t{};
 
I surmise the version on Coliru has no variable templates.
@gnzlbg DROP THE <T>
 
@gnzlbg You were already instructed to remove the broken <T>.
 
4:44 PM
ahm
oops
 
You don't write template <typename T> struct vector<T> {
 
You don't write template <typename T> class Foo<T> {};
 
didnt notice that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hahaha
 
but
 
4:44 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
nothing
thanks
crap :D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit only after you'll quit again
 
@rightføld Why do you think you need this? And what would be a good example of a use case?
@rightføld Maybe those 10 people merely scratched their heads, and I misinterpreted their gestures as a vote.
 
I'm compiling with g++ and it's giving me an, "‘put_time’ is not a member of ‘std’" error on the line `out << std::put_time(T, "%r");` even though I included <ctime>

Anyone have an idea why?
 
4:56 PM
Missing #include.
Or missing in the standard library altogether.
14
Q: std::put_time implementation status in gcc?

moooeeeepI was trying to compile this example program using gcc (tested versions 4.5.1, 4.6.3): #include <iostream> #include <iomanip> #include <ctime> #include <chrono> using std::chrono::system_clock; int main() { system_clock::time_point now = system_clock::now(); std::time_t now_c = system_...

 
I'm not using gcc?
 
g++ -> gcc
 
I see
 
GCC stands for GNU Compiler Collection.
 
As in, g++ is simply a quick way to compile/link C++ code using GCC.
 
4:58 PM
helpful, thanks
is there a way to get around it?
 
@Abyx I'm going to stay forever, just to piss you off. Since you seem to have such a bee in your bonnet about it.
 
I suppose you can find it in boost.
 
@ZachSaucier You're using GCC. The "programs" gcc and g++ both invoke GCC.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Your self-sacrifice shall forever be remembered.
 
@thecoshman By the way, you know I love you right? It's just an act the me being pissed at you on Nomic. Don't take it seriously :D
 
5:00 PM
That is the most confusing thing ever...
So GCC and the program gcc mean different things?
 
@EtiennedeMartel ty
@QuestionC gcc tells GCC to compile C code. g++ tells GCC to compile C++ code. (Sort of.)
 
Now the obvious question is: what is GCC that gcc is not?
 
@ZachSaucier I've fixed that question's title.
 
@QuestionC Since when two things with the same name can't mean different things?
 
@Jefffrey GCC is a product suite. gcc is an executable that comes with that suite.
 
5:01 PM
Does it mean that LIGHTNESS and lightness are two different things? Maybe. Who knows.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Those are not the same name.
 
@Jefffrey it's cool, you were wrong, but it's cool.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Depends on how you compare them ;)
 
@EtiennedeMartel strictly speaking ;)
 
LIGHTNESS is a ridiculously long acronym, whereas lightness is the property of how light something is. :D
 
5:02 PM
@thecoshman I know. But what you are trying to do is blocking progress. Like if we haven't already had enough blocking.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It would be like calling apples oranges man. They're very related concepts that you can't necessarily distinguish through context.
 
For me rules are not black and white, and the only reason I would exploit some loophole in some rule is either at my own gain or everybody's gain.
 
Is this a Stallman thing?
 
@Jefffrey I have more qualms with following the letter and not the spirit of the law.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It was migrated but rejected from Code Review. — bluefeet ♦ 5 mins ago
what
 
5:07 PM
I remember I read this one guy that explained that there are different kind of actions and how they are smart or stupid: 1) You do your own good only 2) You do your own good and you damage other people (jackal) 3) You do the good of other people 4) You do the good of other people but damage your own (altruist) 5) You do nobody's good. The fifth was the only one to be considered stupid.
And I think your action is very near to the fifth case.
Or something like that.
It made more sense before I wrote it down.
 
I find it frustrating that you cannot do things without taking your own perspective into consideration
it's like, this thing that you have no control over
 
@Jefffrey Just remind me to avoid invoking Judgment when thecosh is Judge.
 
how would abandoning your own perspective even be like
I can't think about something like that
 
You'd make a terrible fiction writer :P
 
@AlexM. You mean... being objective?
 
5:11 PM
Sweaty palms are annoying.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes btw, is there some third party randomizer that is reliable to generate the random judge?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit As written it doesn't appear to be about real code SomeClass, it appears to be pseudo code which is why it was rejected. — bluefeet ♦ 1 min ago
 
Something like that we create an account and all random generations are recorded so that everybody can check that the one that we have generated was the only one, or something?
 
How is this "pseudocode"? What am I missing?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think that's the spirit of the game.
 
5:12 PM
@thecoshman Ha! Gotcha.
 
Well, yes. It is the spirit of the game.
But what are you gaining from this?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what? I knew full well what that rule was intended to do. I knew full well I was being obtuse.
 
Maybe highlighting my being an idiot.
 
@Jefffrey that's still you being objective
 
Yeah, that could be useful for later.
 
5:13 PM
@Jefffrey ... the same thing we all are from playing the game.
 
I was more about how that you is you and you cannot do anything about it
 
@thecoshman No, I mean what do you gain within the game.
 
like, if you could become someone else entirely, how would it work
 
@Jefffrey well part of it was showing that these last few rules are not well thought out.
 
what exactly makes us have this idea of our perspective
and could we replace it
 
5:14 PM
Like, I wouldn't have assaulted you this hard if you didn't like all parallel proposals of that turn and you just wanted to have them void.
 
or manipulate it
 
It's understandable.
It's a move.
 
> The elective nature of games and the comparatively small space they occupy in our lives suggest that the authority of game rules derives from the agreement of players and not from other rules from which the players cannot escape without great difficulty.
From Suber's intro.
 
But nullifying a proposal you want and your own proposal? I don't get it.
 
If there's anything out there that can ever be described as a description of the spirit of the game, it's Suber's document.
 
5:16 PM
@thecoshman We all got it. You could have just talked before they were approved or just pointed it out in some conspiracy tag.
At least in the beginning I would like to see people working together to have some stability and then play the game of killing each other.
 
soo, I saw this today
whoops
wall of code
 
At least that's the way I see it. If you start going on everybody else's toe at this point, when there are so many things that need to be introduced, then nobody wins.
 
o.O
 
it was very isolated and only used once in the whole codebase
 
5:18 PM
@AlexM. Ok.
 
I have no idea what the author tried to achieve
 
Redundancy and confusion.
(my hunch)
 
I mean without knowing why that is, I can't say it's just bad.
It might make sense, iunno, to make it more readable.
 
I thought he thought "I know, I'll split the things and document it!"
but that became invalid when a method sneaked into the variables section
 
Yeah, but then there's a member function in the "PRIVATE VARS" place.
 
5:19 PM
lol
 
ffs if you don't want to take your time to maintain comments fucking write your code properly and don't comment
 
@AlexM. I didn't notice that.
 
@Jefffrey Kinda hard to find something that would suit us.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: I'm listening, just not understanding why you think he might have meant resize when that would be completely the wrong thing to do. — Mike Seymour 4 mins ago
lol duh
TIL SO OPs never do the wrong thing
 
We need something that is independent, and that can generate random numbers without everyone present simultaneously, but recall previous generations in a reliable way so everyone can validate that.
 
5:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe we can randomly ask some lounger that is not involved in the game to generate some random md5 and use that.
 
Maybe there's some crypto scheme for that out there? Diffie–Hellman has properties that sound similar to what we want.
roll20.net could do as a central authority, but that sounds a bit overkill.
Oh!
 
By chance, does anyone here happen to know how to write paraview plugins?
 
Of course. We can exploit any online game that has an RNG, I suppose.
 
@Jefffrey @R.M use 71892037 as seed on random.org
I just generated this number, knowing nothing about the stakes.
 
Doesn't solve the problem unfortunately.
 
5:27 PM
@Jefffrey why?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Also we don't need it now.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's deterministic.
 
We are thinking for when it will be needed.
@BartekBanachewicz We might just as well trust you number.
 
I don't think I get it
 
If we could do with a predictable sequence, we would just define a sequence ourselves (which happens to be the state of affairs, actually).
 
5:28 PM
@Jefffrey yeah I didn't really get much time to talk about these
 
I can generate a few dozen true random numbers if you want
 
Bartek: official RNG.
 
lol
 
want an API? :)
 
Can we maybe abuse some discrap property to produce them?
 
5:29 PM
Considering he has been a player, he is perfect.
I have it.
Or maybe not.
Nope
 
Maybe some timestamps?
 
We make a thread titled "RNG", and when we need one we post there and take the last two digits of the raw timestamp.
That's a d100.
 
I was thinking of using coliru to generate a random number with a seed produced by the concatenation of 2 strings given by the two opponents.
That sounds overly complicated.
 
5:34 PM
Like, player A officially challenge B, then we use some script to generate a number between 1 and N-2 (N = number of players), then A gives a string and B gives a string and the concatenation of the two is used as the seed for the generator.
That doesn't sound so bad actually. @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think they emphasize the context of the code.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think they emphasize being stupid.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit um, no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok
 
I mean, asking for a real use case of the code you want to be reviewed is reasonable
 
5:35 PM
@Jefffrey Can't be a 1-on-1 thing.
 
Anyway, in all seriousness, I sort of get where the policy comes from. But it's interesting to explore how far you can take that before it becomes ludicrous.
 
of course denying it just because it's titled SomeClass is less reasonable
 
& that's the only reason I posted the meta question, I think
 
There is one person invoking Judgment but not necessarily exactly one other with an opposing view.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: It would've helped if there were some context to see how this was used originally. And we have closed similar questions with obfuscated names. That's when we usually ask the OP to replace them with the real names, thereby revealing the context. We shouldn't need to guess what this is. — Jamal ♦ 34 secs ago
there you go
and still noone has reviewed my code :(
except my project teammates of course
 
5:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, there must be disagreement between 2 people at least to invoke judgment, no?
 
We could just have no idea what to do.
 
I'm trying to make it so my custom class Time can format a certain output when doing something like std::cout << TimeObj. Is the following the correct way to refer to it?
 
@Jefffrey Also, whoever gives their bit latest knows everything, no?
 
class Time {
    friend ostream &operator<<(ostream &out, const Time &T);
 
@AlexM. lol. wow.
 
5:37 PM
@ZachSaucier yes, if you need to access private parts of Time. If you don't, you obviously don't need it. Also, std::chrono.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but we can make it so at XX:YY minute both present a string, and it's very difficult in 60 seconds to find the string that will generate the hash that you want
But yes, it's kinda bad.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Thanks! It's a school project, we're limited to <iomanip>
 
I have no other ideas.
 
strange I can log into code review... but not code review meta
 
I think using the timestamp of the post invoking Judgment should do fine.
In truth Cat has control over that since it's his server, but it does require going to some lengths.
No one else has any reasonable control, since it's basically a measure of latency between you and the server.
 
5:41 PM
@ZachSaucier ah, reimplementing things. Glorious.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, you have quite a good control if you have a good connection.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I know, it's great
also, anything blatantly wrong with the following? It's throwing a ton of errors and I"m not sure exactly what they mean
ostream &operator<<(ostream &out, const Time &T) {
        out << std::setfill(T.h) << std::setw(2) << "i:";
        out << std::setfill(T.m) << std::setw(2) << ":";
        out << std::setfill(T.s) << setw(2);
        return out;
}
 
The timestamp is the number of seconds from date X. I'm pretty sure I can make the post the second I want and be pretty sure about it.
 
@Mgetz you don't have enough context!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit clearly not... or it could be a javascript bug in their OAuth code that I really don't feel like debugging ATM
 
5:46 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What exactly are you guys trying to accomplish?
 
@ZachSaucier I'm gonna need those errors. Use Gist for them.
 
@JerryCoffin We need a way to randomly pick one of us.
 
@BartekBanachewicz gist.github.com/ZachSaucier/c8acf988a06e50ca1ffe I appreciate the help
 
@Jefffrey Is it seconds?
 
5:49 PM
@ZachSaucier I'm sitting at work with precisely 0 motivation to do anything else today :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, the unix timestamp certainly is
 
2 hours overtime is my point of breaking
 
the first two were a misplaced letter, not part of my question
 
and we're doing overtime since last week
 
user1804599
Should I download 0.10.12 alpha or demo?
 
5:50 PM
:(
 
user1804599
Alpha, right?
 
@rightføld alpha. Demo is the free one
 
user1804599
Ok. :3
 
we're so gonna rock it on multiplayer
as we all know lounge is great at cooperating
@ZachSaucier are you sure you know what setfill does?
 
user1804599
I hope it works on my ancient machine from 2009.
 
5:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes One out of two, or one out of some arbitrary number?
 
@rightføld yeah, it's 2D and looks heavily optimized
 
user1804599
omg omg omg it works
 
user1804599
with sound
 
user1804599
yaaay
 
user1804599
aweosme
 
5:53 PM
lol my vector<bool> joke made it into the title
 
aweosme suace
 
user1804599
I hope I don't need middle click though.
 
I haven't been in the title for quite some time
 
user1804599
I don't have that button on my mouse.
 
@rightføld nope. Keys are freely rebindable anyway
 
5:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Lounge<Bartek's ******>
 
@rightføld Your box is older than you?
2
 
@MartinJames ouch
 
@rightføld Missing middle button. Signaling with middle finger directly.
 
I'm installing it on my work pc
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I have to be snarky to someone. The gale-force winds, torrential rain and lightning are pissing me off.
 
5:56 PM
@MartinJames Not me (but I was born before Babbage, so there were no computers before I was born).
 
@JerryCoffin Before Babbage? Damn, I had you down as Ada's love child.
 
@MartinJames here it's just dark and boring
shit, 6pm. I'd better cook, eat and shower.
 
user1804599
How do I rotate transporter belts?
 
user1804599
Ah, R.
 

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