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10:00 AM
My computer is kind of a time machine; it sucks up way too much of my time.
 
@FredOverflow :)
 
a time sponge
 
Bye guys
 
I'd expect a time machine to produce time, not consume it
I could use one of those
 
Couldn't you just take out the batteries from your clock?
 
10:02 AM
@FredOverflow you mean from my computer? That would hardly help me get more out of my time :(
 
It would enable you to do non-computer related things.
 
Yes, like shopping for new batteries.
 
oh i see you been discussing music
i'm currently playing AB/CD
 
but I've got plenty of computer related things I need to do as well
 
it's a swedish AC/DC mockery, fun to listen to
(i think there may also be a german ac/dc, it's not that)
 
10:04 AM
@AlfPSteinbach You are probably confusing that with ADAC, the general german automobile club ;)
 
How the fuck did I miss this?
 
huh, haven't heard that it's ready
 
Funny how PDF and PDF on CD cost the same.
 
10:15 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes oh wow
 
Ok, I feel better now. Everyone missed it.
 
Does it really cost over 300 euro?
What is that PDF made of, gold?
 
The C++11 standard has been published. Rejoice!
15
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The future has arrived. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
10:17 AM
No wonder everyone grabs FDIS before they slap a price on it.
 
I can finally say 'C++11' instead of 'C++0x'! I feel so free.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus So true.
And so glad I got one. :D
 
> Status: Published
> Target publication date: 2012-02-28
Well, good job there.
 
Those pesky time travellers.
Maybe it's a pre-order, and you get a TF2 hat with it.
 
10:19 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes How much is CHF 352,00 ?
 
Ask Google.
 
> This document reached stage 60.60 on 2011-09-01 , TC/SC: JTC 1/SC 22, ICS: 35.060
 
@FredOverflow around 300 euro. A lot
 
About 314 €.
 
10:19 AM
(60.60 is publication)
Found that on the RSS feed.
 
should be lot cheaper at ANSI
 
Only 1315 in my currency.
 
anyway, of course I have N3290 and not going to shell out moneys
he he
 
Who doesn't.
 
oh crap
 
10:20 AM
I think I'll just wait till it comes out as a book, should be much cheaper.
 
what about N3291?
 
I wonder if I still have it. Might only have had it on my old laptop
 
@x4d33746153706c306974 Same as N3290, but diffed with N3242.
 
aww, N3225 seems to be the latest I have
 
You may still find it on the Internet, if you're lucky...
@jalf Actually, the nullptr video is slightly over one hour long :)
 
10:24 AM
> Some compilers also answer "You have been deemed unfit to operate me. Please shutdown the computer and go play The Sims for facebook". – Kheldar just now
 
@RMartinhoFernandes lol what language is this supposed to be?
 
No, definitely not APL.
 
random thing encountered: grooveshark can play whole albums, nice
 
There are too many characters you can find on your keyboard for it to be APL.
 
10:27 AM
@FredOverflow There's a black market trade in copies of n3290.pdf. I know someone who knows someone.
 
Has anyone looked what their national body has available? Can't find anything here (but the search interface is terrible).
 
Is there any difference between n3290 and the final standard?
 
There shouldn't be, besides typographical errors.
 
@LucDanton The Danish one has it, at 1900dkk, I think it was
British and US didn't seem to have it yet
 
ANSI's webstore doesn't seem to list the new standard yet, but the last one was $30US (~20 euros).
 
10:31 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes I wonder if they fixed the "cosntant" typo.
 
@JerryCoffin webstore.ansi.org/… is $622 now
 
@jalf Cheaper, someone said.
 
For 330 EUR I can get the previous Standard.
Oh, that's before taxes.
 
10:33 AM
that price is insane
 
Als
uhm..Houseful
 
@jalf Yes, but that's only the BSI imprinted version. The INCITS/ISO version is $30. And no, I'm pretty sure there's no difference beyond the title page.
 
it smells of microsoft but i can't see how they could have got into that act. but consider, first publishing the thing on the net. then charging insane price for it. it's just pure microsoft style. i don't understand!
 
Als
Are we talking about hard copies of the Standards?
 
10:34 AM
I think it's just a PDF
 
Als
lol @AlfPSteinbach
 
ack, can't find it on ds.dk now. Pretty sure I found it 5 mins ago
 
Als
Yes for? No for?
There are a plenty of mirrors out there which host a pdf copy for free
@LucDanton: 330 Eur for c++03?
 
@Als Yes.
 
10:36 AM
what the heck is DS/ISO/IEC 14882:2007?
 
could it be TR1?
 
Als
@LucDanton: A PDF copy? for 330 Euro? geez
 
also, I was wrong. Danish standards body doesn't have 2011 yet, but they're selling this 2007 thing, whatever that is
 
@Als Nah, it's a CD. Of the PDF I guess.
 
Als
@LucDanton: It's internet you mighr get it for free
 
10:38 AM
@Als I have no idea whatever you might mean.
Plus it's an obsolete Standard anyway.
 
Als
@LucDanton: I mean in the age of internet era does the ISO really think that people would buy an standard copy for that insane amount of money?
 
@Als yes.
 
@Als yes they surely do
 
Given that its main audience is companies writing compilers and such
 
0
Q: Searching for [tag:C++0x] does not list [tag:C++11] entries

Johannes Schaub - litbA synonym is meant to capture all a tag's name spellings. Therefor, like real internet search engines do, Stackoverflow should list both C++11 and C++0x questions when searching for c++0x or c++11, since they denote the same tag with different spelling. The list of results should be equivalent. ...

 
10:39 AM
@Als When said somebody is publishing a compiler than they want to assure their government really complies? Surely!
 
Compiler vendors will, they can generally afford it.
 
It's not being published for you or me
 
"Target publication date: 2012-02-28"
hmm
 
If other media are any indication slashing down the price might dramatically increase volume of sales. Of course other media have big, fat user bases so that might not be comparable at all.
 
Als
Yeah, well compiler vendors will then why not make it available for free in the first place
@JohannesSchaublitb: Is that for C++11?
 
10:41 AM
Because money.
 
@Als because giving something away for free generally doesn't cover your expenses very well?
unless you're proposing they introduce ads?
 
Can ISO website sue anyone for bad things?
 
Websites don't sue people.
 
@x4d33746153706c306974 "bad things"?
 
@Als yes they say that on the linked site..
 
10:42 AM
@x4d33746153706c306974 don't worry
 
Als
@jalf: How is it helping? there are hundreds and thousands of mirror websites already hoisting copies of the very standard, it just makes illegal trade flourish
 
@Als didn't you read what we just said? Because it is targeted at companies who don't want to rely on illegal trade
 
Als
@x4d33746153706c306974: Well, distributing the standard like you did here is certainly illegal, So in a strict sense yes
 
especially not just to save a few hundred dollars
 
@jalf You know, murder, rape, bad things.
 
10:43 AM
i can use accounts to buy new C++ draft)
 
Good luck convincing Microsoft or Intel to base their compiler on material obtained illegally. ;)
 
Als
@jalf: yeah well, How many such organizations exist which do build compilers?
 
@johannes: what's wrong with my sleep and coffee deprived answer yesterday
 
meh, finally done with nullptr
 
1
A: How to force all derived classes to implement a virtual method?

Alf P. SteinbachIf you control the base class AbstractDep then you can enforce that concrete leaf classes must be created by using a class template WithCloning. This leaf can then be sealed so that it cannot be inherited. Or more precisely, instances cannot be created of a derived class. class AbstractDep { tem...

 
10:44 AM
lol
 
@Als enough, presumably. Compiler writers, standard library implementers, and yes, companies which use C++ as well
 
Als
@jalf: Enough business to counter the cons?
 
most companies can afford to pay, say, $500, and few companies want to risk lawsuits just to save that kind of money
@Als what are the cons, exactly?
 
Als
@jalf: Black trading of that very standard
if not the companies
 
10:46 AM
oh puppy is here
 
Als
most normal plain users do resort to that
 
@Als How is that a con? The people who aren't the target audience aren't paying for the standard? Big deal
 
oh shit
I think that all the problems I had with my Bison grammar were purely down to a mistake
 
Als
@jalf: Arent paying but its shadowy, do u mean to say it is legal?
 
10:47 AM
@sbi: Consider removing "as well as the outcome of the standardization process" from the newbie hints. It's irrelevant now :)
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Going good on the rep i see.
 
@Als no, it's illegal, but it doesn't affect ISO
 
the newbie hints are too long
TL;DR
 
they're trying to get money out of companies that rely on the standard. As such, they expect to get nothing from "private" users, whether or not they pirate the standard
 
Als
@jalf: Doesnt affect but they promote illegal trade, good precent?
 
10:48 AM
@Als how do they promote illegal trade?
 
@Als They don't promote illegal anything.
 
they sell a product, and that's it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it is?
the standardization process hasn't suddenly stopped
 
Als
They sell a product which an individual would want to have for all the very right reasons...And they make it so costly that he wont buy it the rightful way.
 
ISO is quite specifically saying "if you want to use our standard, pay what we charge". I'm just pointing out that they're not really hurt by you pirating the standard, because they weren't really counting on you buying it in the first place
 
10:49 AM
actually, this nonsense was discussed in article in latest Scientific American
 
@DeadMG It looks like nobody is pretending to be surprised, so let me do the honours.
 
lol
 
Als
Atleast, they should have separate price ranges for individuals and companies
 
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
@Als They don't plan on selling it to individuals.
 
10:49 AM
i mean about making product difficult to use or too costly for paying customers
 
@Als why would they care? ISO isn't in the business of safeguarding the morals of individuals worldwide
Also, remember that most ISO standards are even more corporation-centric. Programming languages are an exception because they're actually of some use to certain individuals
 
yeah, like the floating-point standards
 
the spec can be obtained by searching google with "C++ Standard 2003"
 
Als
They should care because they are a reputed worldwide representation of an language and they should be setting petty goals but rather be looking at the bigger picture
 
so it's not that difficult to obtain it without paying
 
Als
10:51 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb: Exactly my point, but then that is illegal as well aint it
 
But ISO is built to handle standards for shipping container dimensions, electrical wall sockets, concrete production or a million other things that are of zero interest to individuals
 
@JohannesSchaublitb i think that's been a premise of the discussion so far
 
@Als "petty"? As in "of little importance"?
 
It's not that expensive. Spread over 8 years it's less then a franc a week.
 
10:52 AM
@JohannesSchaublitb it's better to search for "fdis mirror" or some such
 
@Als What is the bigger picture, exactly? They need to cover their costs, and the simplest way to do that is to charge money from the audience who 1) need access to your product, and 2) are willing to pay more than the price of a pizza for it
 
Als
@jalf: If it is just a private capitalist body then its end of discussion of morales.
@jalf: $622 for a piazza?
 
@jalf no, the easiest way to make money on the product would be to sell it for reasonable price to lots of people. there are far more people than companies
 
Als
expensive piaaze
 
@Als they're not, but where did the discussion of morale begin? Why do you assume ISO has anything to do with morals?
@Als I said more than ;)
 
10:53 AM
lol @Alf that guy is crazy
 
I would guess that most people who are happy with an illegal copy to save CHF 352 would be happy to use an illegal copy to save CHF 35.
 
ISO will beat him up
 
@AlfPSteinbach Is it? What about their thousands of other standards which might be of interest to, say, 50 corporations worldwide, and zero individuals? Imagine how much money they'd lose by selling those standards at $30
 
10:54 AM
Once again, standards like "ours" are a tiny minority, and definitely not what ISO bases their business model around
 
the spec is actually only around 50 euros
 
Als
@jalf: I thought, since it is an representative of the language in the worldly sense it is bound to some morals, true that if that doesn't hold good then nothing to discuss, all is fair in capitalist ventures.
 
@x4d33746153706c306974 stop posting porn URLs thanks
 
Als
@JohannesSchaublitb: Porn huh?
 
10:55 AM
when did i post?
 
lol now you can't say "I didn't" because you have no history
 
@Als C++ and morals do not mix.
 
@Als I don't understand. Where's the connection between languages and morals?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb : holy crap
lol
 
It's a programming language, for Finagle's sake. It's not a religion.
 
Als
10:56 AM
It is a world representative body aint it supposed to not indulge in practices that would promote illegal fourishing trade?
 
The purpose of a standard is just to make sure that everyone agrees on the way to do something. C++ wasn't standardized for the sake of morals, but simply to ensure that different C++ compilers interpret your code the same way
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Sure? ;-)
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Don't get too hyper.
 
@Als That's absurd. They are not "promoting illegal trade"
 
Als
@jalf: in an subtle way
 
10:57 AM
@Als not too bad on rep
 
"ISO made me download a car."
2
 
Als
promoting may not be correct word, but leading to is
 
you have the lisp spec?
 
And there is nothing special about ISO. It's a collection of entities with a common interest in promoting standards, nothing more, nothing less
They have no affiliation with governments or religions
 
anyone in to shell coding?
 
10:58 AM
fortran has "common interest"
 
Als
@LucDanton: Spin the wheel for us
 
@x4d33746153706c306974 I understand some of it, and have toyed around with it
 
@x4d33746153706c306974 use msf :P
 
Als
10:58 AM
@jalf: Where did the question of religion came up? Thats absurd
 
why do you have such a fucking long nick?
 
you're my type
 
star contests
 
@Als Religions are often considered authorities when it comes to morals
 
10:59 AM
@Als well some people get religious about C++ :P
 
Als
@TonyTheTiger: <-------------- you are his ---------------> @x4d33746153706c306974 type
lol
 
@JohannesSchaublitb compared to yours its short
 
I'm just pointing out that there's zero overlap between the organizations concerned with morals (including, but not limited to, religions and governments), and ISO
 
@Als he's into animals
 

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