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12:43 AM
(removed)
 
@Mikhail What/who was removed?
 
12:58 AM
(me roved)
 
#DatCompileTime
 
 
1 hour later…
2:16 AM
I’m sad I can’t always just type the proposal number into google to find it
C++ proposal: better ISO SEO
 
heh
 
I’m really happy with the pace for new features atm
 
I always get sad when I see nicely formatted output broken like it is on this page :(
 
2:42 AM
> People report lunatics screaming at their babies through internet-enabled [baby] monitors all the time
internet of things that are sad
 
3:23 AM
(fucked)
 
3:39 AM
@wilx They AfD are a bunch of Nazis and their logo is an erect penis
 
4:03 AM
> $6 = std::vector of length -333497, capacity -333497
I think I found the problem
 
 
2 hours later…
5:34 AM
dang, only xmethods for libstdc++’s std::map etc. are .empty() and .size(), that’s not much help :(
 
5:53 AM
> p *(std::pair<unsigned long const, unsigned long>*)&(('std::_Rb_tree_node<std::pair<unsigned long const, unsigned long> >'*)$26._M_impl._M_header._M_parent)->_M_storage
yes this is not inconvenient
 
Xeo
6:11 AM
@LucDanton looks fun
 
brought to you by the STL
also I think I forgot to get _GLIBCXX_DEBUG
link errors, who needs 'em?
I forget how you hack that with --build-type=complete (i.e. can’t just set the --cxxflags cos I don’t set _GLIBCXX_DEBUG in non-debug)
I think I have to give up on --build-type=complete and set runtime-debugging=on for debug :| thanks, Abrahams
 
Sam
6:32 AM
Hello lounge!
 
7:03 AM
oh good it looks like runtime-debugging=on or even hacking the flags have no effect
 
Ew, macros and configuration flags
 
7:31 AM
@Mikhail I do not think AfD is that and even if it were Hitler himself, he would have a point.
 
7:42 AM
sometimes GCC development looks like a regression contest
 
sup fams
 
unless I missed the memo that C++1z would change this, breaking all the locale stuff
 
ugh I think I lost my work badge
@R.MartinhoFernandes they never learn
 
Wait, not again. Last time it was the Ministry of Defense.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Super cool.
 
> Also, frankly, the tone of some commentators here is very arrogant. This is my first time in an isocpp.org forum and I'm already not impressed with the community.
C++, lots of nice people :D
 
@CaptainGiraffe nice one
@Morwenn didn't know isocpp has forums
 
@StackedCrooked The C++ future proposals forum is an isocpp forum.
 
@Morwenn Well, people seem to follow Bjarne...
> Matt's paper is making a lot of assumptions about the knowledge and opinions about people wanting concepts now based on the current model. Most seem flat wrong. He seems to have missed the last 5 years progress in the standards committee, or maybe 10.
 
8:40 AM
@Morwenn Graet community
 
Sup @AndyProwl
 
Changing jewb
Solving some health issues
 
Really? Still in Brno?
 
Yeah
You?
 
Health issues?
 
8:42 AM
Yeah, hopefully nothing serious
 
Still at kbok's jewbplace
I even gave my team a little tour of C++11 features
 
Who's going to Meeting C++ this year?
I'll be there on Friday.
 
Xeo
I won't make it this year :(
@Rerito "And here's the variadic template corner, where I go cry when VS crashes"
15
 
No time for after-conference socializing, though :(. I have a flight to catch in the evening.
@AndyProwl STEALING THAT
 
lol
 
8:45 AM
At one of my previous jobs I could totally have an official variadic template corner.
Like with a sign and shit.
 
@AndyProwl I dedicated a little part of the presentation to variadics and gave a little simple example
 
20% of my job was working around VS crashes.
 
And then just after, Yakk's can_apply
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not surprised
Where do you work now? Still at sbi's company?
 
What are these crashes you're talking about on VS? (Just to see how it's broken)
 
8:46 AM
Unfortunately I became the local ICE expert.
VP of ICEs.
 
@Rerito What's can_apply?
 
@AndyProwl Nah, I jumped ship before it sinks.
 
@AndyProwl A little facility that allows you to write custom type traits easily (see stackoverflow.com/a/30195655/1794345 )
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds wise
 
8:47 AM
oh, interesting
C++?
 
@Rerito Once you do some metaprogramming involving variadic templates you'll start seeing quite many of those
I remember some ridiculous ones not even involving variadics, just templates and using aliases
that got fixed by using typedefs instead
 
Ven
I put a template<> void x(); function in a .cpp (with no forward decl) and now my colleague is freaking out
 
Fortunately I haven't done much metaprogramming since
well, I don't feel good with having lost my meta-wanking abilities but when dealing with VC12 it's really a PITA
@Ven You mean a function template? Or a specialization?
 
user1804599
@Ven I would also freak out if my work code base contained C++ code.
 
Ven
8:50 AM
@AndyProwl function template, obviously
 
@Rerito Too lazy to dig out the few bugs I actually filed before I decided to not waste my time.
 
Ven
wouldn't work othewise
 
yeah, <> made me wonder
 
Is it still that broken in VS 2015?
 
Ven
@AndyProwl I'm not sure anymore what are the rules
 
8:51 AM
@Rerito Somewhat. Not as bad as previous versions.
(Though note that variadics have been supposedly supported since VS2012; all lies)
 
@Ven IIRC function template specialization doesn't require <>, that's for class templates
 
Ven
no specialization.
 
Ven
I have template<typename T> void foo(T); in my .hpp, and template<typename T> void foo(T) { } in my .cpp
and my colleague is like "how does this even work"
 
well wait
 
Ven
8:52 AM
"how can this link"
 
why do you need it in the .hpp
if other translation units use that function than yeah, how can that link
 
Ven
"it" ?
they don't, that's the trick. it's an internal, private helper function :P
 
Why do you need template<typename T> void foo(T); in the .hpp?
oh
I see
 
Ven
because Guidelines™ say helper functions have to be private class functions
 
even if they don't need to access the internal state?
 
Ven
8:54 AM
@ratchetfreak no, in private headers (the impl header, not the interface class header)
 
@AndyProwl The only upside of spending so much time on those ICEs was that whenever a colleague ran into one I could just pop over and I was so familiarized with the ICEs that I knew which ridiculous workaround like "put this bit in a namespace" or "remove this parameter's name" would fix it.
 
Ven
@AndyProwl they do need to access internal state
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol the latter
never happened to me
@Ven all right, then fine
 
Ven
So I think what I did does make sense. He's just a bit puzzled. :P
 
J: WTF, I got an ICE
*me pops over*
Me: Oh, that one! Put this function between those two.
*J. rearranges functions*
J: WTF, it works now
Priceless.
 
Ven
8:55 AM
He's from a java background so sometimes he doesn't understand C++'s fucked up quirks. Like the day I showed him a pure function could have an impl...
 
never use your ICE whisperer powers for evil though
4
 
Ven
The Man Who Talked To ICEs
 
@Ven lol
 
Ven
"I... I see ICEs that were fixed by STL"
 
I see... dead code
9
 
8:56 AM
@AndyProwl lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes will star in the next X-Men movie as ICEman
 
@AndyProwl don't dead, code inside
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But what's the process that lead you to find out how to work around the ICEs?
I'm curious to know
 
so also
some news came at work
I couldn't share before
 
Ven
but you can now!
 
8:59 AM
@Rerito "Try somewhat modifying the code around these lines..." is literally what the compiler suggests you
when you're lucky
so you try alternative programs with the same semantics
 
Oh it's shotgun trial and error then?
 
@Rerito Repeated random changes in complete ignorance.
 
@Rerito Pretty much
 
Nice
Even nicer when you get to work with RTC
 
@Rerito At least in the beginning, yes. After a few weeks you start to develop an intuition for it.
 
9:00 AM
@Ven yeah. I am becoming a Sofware Architect
 
Ven
so long you're not a Software Addict
 
kinda on a trial right now :)
 
nwp
Can you not use a file as a global mutex on windows? I thought if a bunch of processes try to open the same file at the same time for writing one will succeed and the others will fail, but apparently that is not always the case.
 
Will you still get to bear the RTC madness at your new jewb @AndyProwl?
 
@Ven incidentally being an architect means less software than being a developer
 
9:01 AM
@Rerito Thank god no, they use Git
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz obviously does
 
not a good thing IMO
 
I'm trying to push it there
 
@Rerito The trick is to trigger a recompile at every opportunity. This way you can discover that even seemingly meaningless changes like removing a parameter's name can work.
 
architects (whatever that means) should be programming
 
9:02 AM
Each time someone rants about a crappy feature of RTC
Like "god dammnit why does this load thing is so bloated"
 
@AndyProwl I am still going to write code
 
"you know with git a simple command would have gotten the job done"
 
but I'll probably read more code
 
Ven
@Rerito gotten l'ami
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's good, just saying because many companies have this role of an "architect" who doesn't really do much coding, or does way less coding than regular "programmers"
 
9:03 AM
@AndyProwl What will you be doing? And what's up with your health?
 
Ven
They should get you a Car Architect job so you do much less driving
would be much safer on the road for everyone else
 
Are your health issues related to your back?
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz You're becoming a software artefact.
 
Ell
egh I am really stuck writing downto = unfoldr (\n -> if n == -1 then Nothing else Just (n, (n - 1))) using ana from hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-schemes-5/docs/…
 
1597
Q: Cycles in family tree software

Partick HöseI am the developer of some family tree software (written in C++ and Qt). I had no problems until one of my customers mailed me a bug report. The problem is that the customer has two children with their own daughter, and, as a result, he can't use my software because of errors. Those errors are t...

 
Ell
9:08 AM
Nothing will typecheck >.<
 
Gold
 
Sam
@BartekBanachewicz whoa! May be... congrats?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Flight support services, C++. Health issues are under investigation, possibly an infection, trying to rule out worse scenarios
 
Sam
@BartekBanachewicz great!
 
Worse scenarios being? Cancer?
 
9:10 AM
@Ell oh boy, are you sure you should be using that particular ana?
 
Well you cannot rule it out too quickly, after such a prolonged exposure to RTC
 
Ell
@LucDanton Not entirely
 
@Rerito Well, yes
 
@Sam thanks ;)
 
Ell
I thought there was only one ana to be honest.
 
9:12 AM
anyhoo if you want to stick with that one pay attention to the relation between the return type t and it’s base functor aka Functor (Base t)
 
@AndyProwl So you must have been sick for quite a long time then?!
 
@Ell hah! definitively don’t use that one then :)
 
@AndyProwl Actually a lot of the things I write are mostly for support infrastructure for us
 
Ell
@LucDanton haha okay, thanks :)
 
9:14 AM
@Rerito Three months. It's not really "sickness", it's something that appeared suddenly and caused pain and somewhat persists although in less intense form. So far the opinions I got are somewhat reassuring, but I'll have to do more visits
 
@Ell unfoldr is basically a specialized ana, so you should expect the same gene to work with minor changes.
 
@AndyProwl Immunodeficiency?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, but I'm having trouble because I think the return type of the coalgebra needs to be ListF Int c instead of Maybe (a, b)
 
@nwp I'll keep those in mind :)
 
@Rerito I have a weak immune system yes, that's part of the problem. I did the tests for sexual diseases and stuff and it's all negative, so at least there's that
 
9:16 AM
Sure
 
@BartekBanachewicz How's that different from a programmer?
 
authority on higher-level decisions
 
@Ell Right, but you just need to replace Nothing with Nil and Just with Cons.
 
Many companies see regular "programmers" as monkeys who get a specification of what they should do and they do it
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes ahhhh
the feeling of clarity is a great one
thanks :)
 
9:20 AM
then there are "non-monkey programmers" and those get titles like architect
 
The realization you need is that ListF a b is isomorphic to Maybe (a, b)
 
@Shoe My tasks shift even more into research, PoCs, trainings, code reviews etc
 
@AndyProwl We as a team (four devs + one tester + one UI designer + one UX designer) have full authority over how we do things.
 
That's how it should be
 
The only things we can't decide are what the product should be, basically.
 
9:21 AM
at least here it differs from the Senior role in that seniors deliver features on their own. Architects help them coordinate with other features and other teams
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's a job for a PM, clearly.
 
In my current company, my team has about 25 people
1 is a platform architect, each of the others own one or more parts
 
that sounds like a lot
 
"own" means it's their duty and privilege to modify that code
they can't modify other devs' parts at will
they also can't take higher-level or infrastructural decisions (that's what the architect and team leaders are for)
(the team has actually 2 subteams of about a dozen people each but de facto they work as a single team, it's just to make people management easier)
 
Ergh... Java doesn't support trait based generics
 
Ven
just use interface with default methods
 
9:27 AM
Ugly facade class to the rescue
it's generated classes that do basically the same thing
 
glorious language innit
 
Inside the Development of Light, the Tiny Digital Camera That Outperforms DSLRs
The creator of the new Light digital camera explains how he made it work http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/gadgets/inside-the-development-of-light-the-tiny-digital-camera-that-outperforms-dslrs?utm_source=SocialFlow&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social&utm_content=FaceBook
 
anyone uses duck debugging?
 
@Griwes Yeah, I remember that one. But maybe there wouldn't be so much people expressing their concerns if there were public documents about how the many problems of concepts were already considered and solved.
 
warning: phones and cameras of the future will trigger trypophobiacs
 
9:32 AM
@Morwenn Well, the primary "problem" that has been solved... is their actual usefulness. :P
 
@MartianCactus I have a yellow rubber duck
 
i need a rubber duck xd
then i can start
whats your duck's name?
 
@MartianCactus doesn't have a name
it has my company's logo on it though
 
@Griwes Syntactic sugar of course.
Also if constexpr (requires { /* ... */ }) is in the game :p
 
9:40 AM
Definition checking or bust.
Concept maps or bust. :P
 
I don't really care about definition checking tbh.
 
also ugh I so don't want to go to uni today
fuck me
I didn't do the homework
 
Have you written any Haskell? :P
 
I had a super busy week overall
 
Hi, I was thinking if here is a russian mate can help me with registration on russian programming webpage
the captcha code is kinda tricky and I cant do it with google translate..
 
9:43 AM
@Tirolel @Abyx
also
 
@Tirolel why do you want that?
 
As of Unicode version 9.0 Cyrillic script is encoded across several blocks, all in the BMP: Cyrillic: U+0400–U+04FF, 256 characters Cyrillic Supplement: U+0500–U+052F, 48 characters Cyrillic Extended-A: U+2DE0–U+2DFF, 32 characters Cyrillic Extended-B: U+A640–U+A69F, 96 characters Cyrillic Extended-C: U+1C80–U+1C8F, 9 characters Phonetic Extensions: U+1D2B, U+1D78, 2 Cyrillic characters Combining Half Marks: U+FE2E–U+FE2F, 2 Cyrillic characters The characters in the range U+0400–U+045F are basically the characters from ISO 8859-5 moved upward by 864 positions. The next characters in the Cyrillic...
 
because there is a thread about QT
which I need to register if I want to see the "content"
 
and? someone is wrong?
lolwut
 
9:44 AM
@Tirolel no english resources about that?
 
fuck this webpage man, it's no good
 
@abys tbh I couldnt find anything like that
 
Wouldn't the content be in russian also? Google translating programming threads never worked out for me
 
anyways, give us the link
 
9:45 AM
You couldn't find anything about Qt? How is that even possible
 
pfft
 
Guise, I'm willing to rewrite the build system of our project at work (currently, raw MSVC project files :( )
 
@Shoe I did, but I was looking to a specific part, QSettings + Xml = CXmlSettings
 
Which build system would you recommend? Browsing on stackoverflow got me confused
 
just ask on SO
 
9:47 AM
Not really no, too broad and subjective
 
lol that captcha
use google translate
 
I'm just willing to gather opinions of seasoned developers
 
@Abyx I tried but it doesnt allowing me to register, it keeps saying wrong
 
@Rerito be careful I'm quite...
... salty
AYYYYY
 
@Rerito Why? Is it deficient in any way?
 
9:49 AM
Goddammit Alex
 
nwp
@Rerito All build systems are a huge pain, pick whatever is least painful in your situation. Chances are MSVC project file are exactly what you want, unless you have to support gcc or something.
 
@Rerito MSBuild?
 
@wilx Yes, it's a real PITA to maintain (yay xml crappy syntax)
 
CMake then.
 
I'm considering CMake, I was just wondering about potential alternatives
@AlexM. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
9:51 AM
@Abyx was it possible to make an account?
 
I've heard that scons is decent, but I never tried to use it.
 
What about gradle?
 
@Tirolel wait a sec, I'm trying to register
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I had to [re-]realise that the coalgebra should return ListF Int Int
 
@Abyx great, thx
 
Ell
9:53 AM
I'm not sure why I was trying to return ListF Int ListF
 
fuck it. that topic was deleted or something
 
Tesla turns profit, Musk says no new capital needed for Model 3 reuters.com/article/us-tesla-results-idUSKCN12Q2QW
niice
 
use bugmenot / Bugmen0t
 
I hope ppl add charging stations thru my country too soon
the owner of a company here has a Tesla
he charges it every day at work
he's the only one in the city
but if he wants to take it out of the city it's tough luck because the only charging stations are very far away and around the capital
 
@Abyx okay, I will try to do that, thx for your time
 
9:56 AM
@AlexM. tell him to take along an APU
 
@BartekBanachewicz #reflection
:D
 
10:22 AM
What's More Distracting Than A Noisy Co-Worker? Turns Out, Not Much npr.org/2016/10/26/498850659/…
I'm in an open office and went through a period where 3 coworkers did 'pair programming' behind me
not even loud music could cover
so annoying
> He had a colleague who sat a short cubicle wall away and would, as he says, "shout-cough" at regular intervals.
also dat colleague who sneezes like a gorilla
 
Fucking hell people, listen to music
Music can always go louder
and maybe start blasting it at them
 
> not even loud music could cover
and tbh after a couple of hours I just take the headphone off
because my ears hurt
at home I listen to speakers
because my ears hurt if I use headphones
 
nwp
I cannot concentrate with music playing, so that wouldn't help.
 
yeah also music in headphones is distracting too
 
nah
plus try listening to white noise
or some other noise
oh dear... I am seeing this white text as slightly pink :S
 
10:31 AM
> in my particular case one of the things I tend to do is tap my nails on the desk, use tupperware as drums, or if a actual musical instrument is nearby, even if I dunno how to play it, I play it.
except it's with all my body
tap rhythm with feet
 
oh yeah, I tap away all the time too :P
 
sway to some other rhythm I can't explain with the rest of the body
no doubt the office thinks I'm some kind of autistic fuck
 
depends, how long do oyu sit there just rocking back and forth?
 
all the time because otherwise there's office noise
if I take headphones off I get office noise
 
maybe not autistic, but certain socially broken :P
 
10:33 AM
o yea
I have no friends
 
I also have a clickity KB at work, so I must be really annoying for people
but I reckon they should just get them selves some music
though I'm tempted to get o rings to cushion the keys when I bottom out
though I don't think I'm that bad for doing that
some keys maybe
 
im dancing to this atm
feet = drums; body = guitar
so beautiful
 
o_0
 
timing preset
 
I listen to metal more or less all day :D
 
10:36 AM
I like some iron maiden songs
the reincarnation of benjamin breeg is my fav
I also like fear of the dark and wasting love
 
¬_¬ usually in short bursts in between being asked something
fear of the dark is a nice song, but I much prefer the live in rio version
which is strange, I normally don't like live version of songs
 
10:49 AM
@AlexM. Wow. The concept of using different parts of the music to govern different body parts during dance is a new concept to me...really.
lol, I am this bad dancer.
 
Wife wins $1 million trying to show husband lottery tickets are waste of money wpxi.com/news/…
lol
 
woah, nearly 60% tax?
 
yea that's crazy
400k left for them
 
I think in UK and Ireland those loterry wins are tax free
 
@thecoshman Same here, I think.
 
10:54 AM
could be an EU thing, seeing as there is an EU wide system or something
https://www.euromillions.online wtf... since when did '.online' become a TLD, that's a stupid pile of wank
 
.google is also a domain name
now
 
> The majority of EuroMillions countries do not tax lottery wins, though Switzerland, Spain and Portugal do.
The more you know
 

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