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Ell
7:00 PM
@fredoverflow I thought that defaulting/deleting any one implicitly deleted the others :(
I must be confusing it with some other rule
 
@rightfold inb4 lots of SE boilerplate about how OO is the epitome of abstraction
 
user1804599
What is SE?
 
user1804599
 
@NetworkSysCo.Ltd If you're a company, why you don't have interns to solve that problem for you?
 
software engineering
 
user1804599
7:00 PM
oh
 
user1804599
My boiler has plates on it.
 
@Ell Hm, not I'm not so sure anymore...
 
@milleniumbug We're not C++ coders we're PHP magento coders who are doing a customer a favor
 
@NetworkSysCo.Ltd Don't do customers favours
 
user1804599
-1 for telling a customer you can do things you can't do.
 
user406009
7:02 PM
I do wish C++ had something like python's namedtuple.
 
user1804599
it does
 
user1804599
it's called struct
 
struct whatever : std::tuple<int, std::string, bool> { decltype(auto) age() { return std::get<0>(*this); } decltype(auto) name() { return std::get<1>(*this); } decltype(auto) is_available() { return std::get<2>(*this); } };
Also for const
 
user406009
@rightfold How do construct a struct with members that don't have a no-arg constructor?
 
user1804599
Using curly braces.
 
7:06 PM
Using initializer lists
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug nice, now use Boost.Preprocessor. :D
 
...or just PHP
 
Ell
Hmm
 
user1804599
PHP: C++ Preprocessor
 
I think I'll create a C++ preprocessor library for PHP
as in, basic functions for C++ code generation in PHP
 
Ell
7:09 PM
^it works
can anyone improve it?
 
y u virtual
 
@Ell what concrete problem are you trying to solve?
at first I thought you tried to remove boilerplate
and now you've added 10x the boilerplate
 
Also I don't think this is good maintainable code
 
Ell
@rightfold ahhh nice
 
user1804599
7:11 PM
@milleniumbug No, it's C++ code.
 
@rightfold That's the other issue, unrelated
 
user1804599
It's the cause.
 
YMMV
 
> YMMV, expl. see: whatever (adv.)
 
@milleniumbug You mean HipHopVM but worse?
 
7:17 PM
@Puppy No.
C++ preprocessor replacement
 
user1804599
Go.
 
wait
you want to implement... the C++ preprocessor... for PHP?
so you want to take quite possibly literally the worst feature of C++, and graft it on to quite possibly one of the worst languages?
 
No. I want to run PHP over C++ source.
 
a) use a real language b) job done, there are already Mako templates and such you can use in a build step for Python
 
Don't see how Mako templates are relevant here
 
7:22 PM
they don't suck and achieve the same goal but better?
 
user1804599
They suck too.
 
user1804599
Mako is awful.
 
I didn't appreciate it that much, but when the other side is PHP, you don't need to be great.
 
user1804599
Also you probably don't want to generate C++ source code.
 
user1804599
With all the horrible special cases it's a pain.
 
7:25 PM
I dunno, it's not like you can just plug in to the implementation's semantic system
 
@rightfold Did you actually post the question? :)
 
user1804599
no
 
@rightfold that's a contradiction. Remember perl? Cats generate that when drunk
 
user1804599
I have no idea what it contradicts with and how perl is relevant.
 
Anyone know how to find really low resolution fonts? Like the ones they might use in small LED displays you can write to with microcontrollers?
 
user1804599
7:30 PM
perl is a Perl implementation and C++ is a programming language.
 
...
 
user1804599
Why would cats generate a Perl implementation?
 
@Prismatic small as in?
 
You argued Mako is not suited to generate C++ because C++ is complicated
6 mins ago, by rightfold
With all the horrible special cases it's a pain.
 
personally
 
7:31 PM
IME when generating code you simply use subset
 
I think that if you need to generate source for a language, that language is broken
 
1
Q: Why is the semicolon ; not required but allowed at the end of a class definition?

Vedant TerkarWell I'm trying to shift from C++ to Java. What I wonder is, In C++ after class definition a semicolon(;) is Required. But in java it isn't required. That is, in C++: class Person{ public: string name; int number; }; // Note This Semicolon But in Java: class Person{ public String na...

> Extra ";" tokens appearing at the level of type declarations in a compilation unit have no effect on the meaning of the compilation unit. Stray semicolons are permitted in the Java programming language solely as a concession to C++ programmers who are used to placing ";" after a class declaration. They should not be used in new Java code.
 
I'm basically looking for fonts that are as low resolution as possible. I only need 0-9 and A-Z. The font should be monospaced and each glyph should have minimal dimensions.
 
Java is weird
 
user1804599
@sehe no, because it's full of special cases.
 
user1804599
7:32 PM
Something can be complicated yet consistent.
 
I've found like, 6x4 pixels / glyph as the best so far, but I'm searching blindly without really knowing too much about the terminology for these kind of low res fonts
 
@Prismatic How small is the LCD?
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow C# also has this rule, because Java has it.
 
183
Q: Recommended Fonts for Programming?

tbreffniWhat fonts do you use for programming, and for what language/IDE? I use Consolas for all my Visual Studio work, any other recommendations?

 
Its not for an LCD, that was just an example
 
Ell
7:32 PM
@Puppy I wouldn't say broken
 
@rightfold Well. Perl is certainly not more consistent than c++
 
Ell
maybe just lacking in features
 
user1804599
You can place at most one semicolon after a class definition.
 
@fredoverflow rotfl
 
Ell
c++ isn't bad because you have to generate source if you want to add serialisation for example
 
user1804599
7:33 PM
@sehe I never said generating Perl code was fine, so I don't see how Perl is relevant at all.
 
Ell
it just lacks compile time reflection
 
@Ell And also the situation where "Add new features" -> "Generate language source code".
 
user1804599
Perl has incredible metaprogramming capabilities (run arbitrary code at compile-time and modify symbol tables), so you often don't even have to.
 
@fredoverflow I want a small resolution to encode the glyphs in as little information as possible btw, I don't intend to use the fonts for an editor or whatever
 
@Puppy Huh. Unless you're generating from some other source. In which case the transgression is having legacy code/data
 
7:33 PM
instead of, y'know, just adding the feature.
 
@rightfold Perl and PHP are basically the same languages, yes? They both start with P and are web scripts.
;)
 
user1804599
No.
 
@rightfold I used it as an example and you keep referring to it (because what else does this refer to)
 
user1804599
Nothing specific.
 
user1804599
You don't need an example for something to be true.
 
7:34 PM
@sehe Well, I would probably argue that the problem here is that you're transpiling instead of just using the actual source directly, although I'd agree that to some extent, you could make transpilation an implementation detail.
 
And I'm tempted to disagree on principle. I think it can be proven quite conclusively that anything more complex is bound to be more inconsistent (too lazy to try)
Something to do with conflicting levels of abstraction
 
Ell
@Puppy design by committee takes a long time vOv
rather implement it by generating source than wait
 
@rightfold Yet you need only 1 example to refute a claim
 
@Ell Or you could just implement the feature.
 
user1804599
I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
7:36 PM
This is a nice 5x5 font
 
user1804599
An example of a language which is quite complicated yet quite consistent is Scala. Happy now?
 
if you have sufficient design to implement the feature through source generation, you have enough design to implement the feature in a non-stupid way.
 
@Prismatic Pretty
 
user1804599
@Prismatic looks awful.
 
Scala4lyph
 
7:37 PM
@Prismatic Some of those glyphs are pretty unreadable, like the Y and X.
 
@Puppy The image itself is bad ... weird aliasing when it was resized. This seems okay to me:
 
@Prismatic That's... a little better but not a lot.
 
user1804599
@Prismatic nice
 
Ell
@Puppy I don't understand that really. It's easier to use google protobuf than to implement a compiler extension is my point
and it was probably easier to design protobuf itsself also
 
Im trying to find a font to use directly in a fragment shader. The shader will have the data for all the glyphs encoded in it, so I need to get each glyph to be as small as possible... cant really prioritize readability at resolutions that low
 
7:40 PM
@Ell It's easier to use protobuf than implement it? Yes, that's certainly true.
 
Ell
@Puppy I'm willing to wager it was easier to implement protobuf than it would be to implement it in a compiler
or all of the compilers
 
only because C++ compilers are broken
 
Ell
I think it would be true of any language with multiple implementations
 
@Borgleader it became unresponsive. I think that gnome-shell choked, and window management froze. So either input events were not delivered at all or focus was fixed on something I didn't see.
 
Ell
when you generate source you only have to target the source language, which is standard across implementations
otherwise you have to implement an extension in each implementation
 
7:44 PM
I fixed it by doing DISPLAY=:0 gnome-shell --replace from a vt, after which gnome had lost the dbus connection, making it impossible to change the monitor layout.
Ubuntu Desktop quality :)
 
@Ell That assumes that the feature can be implemented in the source language as-is, and that the generation logic is really dumb.
for example, you can't implement code generation that reflects over the members of a C++ type
 
Not easily
Although this is precisely the only thing I've used code generation for with C++ (generate classes with "reflection" information from IDL, EDM schema and the like)
 
user1804599
Tcl is lovely.
 
So once you have code generation, it's "easy" to generate the "reflection info provider" at the same time
 
well, that would only be reflecting on the classes you've generated, not random C++ types.
 
7:48 PM
@rightfold So, he uses )( brackets when he says that?
 
Ell
@Puppy well, you could write your own language like protobuf
which would still be a single target because you're the one writing the "extension"/feature
 
you know like when you read an article there's a sub-article inside the article discussing something related but not on the same idea
 
what does the author have to do with the target?
 
stuff like "Did you know?" or "Related story"
 
user1804599
@sehe vOv
 
7:49 PM
do you read those at the end or when you're on their page
 
Ell
@Puppy sorry, I didn't mean target
 
I read when I'm on the page but that interrupts the flow of the article
 
Ell
let me rephrase
> That assumes that the feature can be implemented in the source language as-is
It doesn't; the author can write his own language too (like protobuf)
 
user1804599
No, you can't write a language.
 
Ell
the author then still doesn't have to deal with different compiler implementations
but he isn't restricted with purely the source language as-is
 
7:51 PM
@Ell Right, but writing protobuf doesn't mean that you can magically reflect on C++ types.
 
Ell
Right, I agree with that
 
it also doesn't mean that you can magically implement features that are normally impossible in C++.
writing protobuf as a separate language is just macros but with a slightly less shitty interface and more hassle to set up for the user... it doesn't change what you can or cannot achieve.
 
Ell
that is true
 
user1804599
"Kraaieëieren" is a Dutch word. Can I have sex now?
 
lol I found a font thats 3x5
 
7:55 PM
@Prismatic Link pls
 
Neat
Not easily readable though
 
@Prismatic Er, those letters are claerly 5x5.
 
@Puppy On the preview, yes
 
user1804599
Why are smart people on average taller than dumb people? Is it because dumb people have dumb mothers who smoke and drink during pregnancy?
 
7:57 PM
Not on the above-preview area ("raw")
 
@rightfold how tall are you
 
user1804599
1.69m, which is above-average for a vrouw.
 
@rightfold There's a lot of possible common causes, like improper nutrition and other such things that generally stunt growth.
 
user1804599
awesome.
 
Typing is fucking hard
 
user1804599
8:00 PM
It could also be that intelligence and height are genetically related.
 
how do you know they are correlated?
 
it could be but it's pretty stupendously unlikely
 
user1804599
Why? Sex and colourblindness are also related.
 
seems obvious to me that if you're a primitive culture where the males do most of the hunting, the females would have less of a selection pressure for accurate vision.
 
8:02 PM
@rightfold Non-colourblind eople have more sex on average?
 
user1804599
No, they are more often male on average.
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
user1804599
but fails when the type name contains -.
 
user1804599
you should make it take an array of pairs instead.
 
user1804599
8:07 PM
or varargs
 
Typenames can't contain - in C++, can they?
 
sadly they can't
 
user1804599
Uh, they can.
 
user1804599
T<1 - 2>.
 
oh wait
 
user1804599
@EvgenyPanasyuk -1 not enough PHP.
 
@Borgleader gwent online :D gwent-online.com
 
Ell
@rightfold nice
 
@AlexM. lol
 
the witcher 3: the wild gwent
 
8:16 PM
@rightfold JFYI: Cog - kind of Python C++ preprocessor.
 
user1804599
terrible
 
user1804599
Hitlers Spaghetti Bolognese
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey gimme that food
 
now to make usable enums
seriously why are C++ enums such shit
 
8:21 PM
Use enum classes for normal use and enums as compile-time constants
 
They are shit too
No iteration, conversion from/to strings
You can't query the min/max value
and so on...
Another idea: run clang++ over the C++ source and output enum traits
 
Ell
@nabijaczleweli use const int for compile time constants
 
also this-^
 
@Ell static constexpr int xxx = 0 versus enum {xxx = 0} in template classes
 
That's irrelevant
Readability is relevant.
Defining anonymous enum to make a constant is obscure feature and unreadable
OTOH the first declaration tells you everything you need to know
 
oh hey
a job posting by the NSA
I didn't know they put out conventional job postings lol
I expected their employees to be gathered via networks of spies
 
Ok. Strange live-feed today. Reinstalling my system. Just plugged my new SSDs.
 
@sehe How do you stay focused while programming? (when you're not streaming that is :P)
 
Ell
@sehe I want to see this
 
You can.
@Borgleader I don't :(
Unless things are going well and there is a lot to do
 
user1804599
 
@sehe I have the same problem more or less, the only time I can focus is when I code in the train because I have no internet access and very little distractions.
 
@nabijaczleweli That's how you've interpreted it, not what's written there. Anyway, my point is that price of obscuring the source code is too high for saving 10 characters per constant.
 
9:03 PM
@Borgleader music helps me a lot. no idea why
 
@rightfold wow. efficient hunting
 
Ell
@nabijaczleweli why would you go with the latter?
 
user1804599
@sehe hunter2
 
sshssshhh I don't want everybody to know
 
9:08 PM
I can't find sehe's livestream link
 
Why isn't it starred
 
@Ell Something tells me the former needs to have a static variable allocated, so executable size grows. But v0v, whatever works for you
 
Ell
@nabijaczleweli if that would, why would the enum not?
 
@nabijaczleweli Thanks
 
Xeo
9:10 PM
25h of Terraria this weekend. Good enough.
 
@Ell Enum constants don't have addresses (are raw integers (are inlined))
But whatever floats your boat
 
user1804599
Rather than teach everyone to code, let's teach them to think. The coding can come later; it's easier.
 
user1804599
I like this.
 
@nabijaczleweli only if you odr-use it
 
@nabijaczleweli Whatever doubles your fleet
 
9:17 PM
(also if you odr-use something, you need to provide a definition for the variable, by the definition of odr-usage)
 
@sehe What code completion do you use? :3
 
@Jefffrey YouCompleteMe in Vim
 
<3
 
@Noob Why are you on mobile with a crappy mic?
@Noob Why are you dead?
 
@nabijaczleweli On a car to home.
Finally.
 
9:31 PM
@Nooble How many corpses did you eat?
 
@nabijaczleweli 42.
 
user1804599
Cannibal Corpse.
 
@rightfold good band
 
user1804599
XD
 
@Jefffrey nab answered
I should be back online with the feed.
But I can't see it myself :)
 
9:41 PM
Famous
 
> >tfw you are the main PR guy and don't get the fat cash
kek
@Nooble Who is?
 
@nabijaczleweli I am.
 
@Nooble How so?
 
@nabijaczleweli I was on sehe's stream.
@sehe You should probably change your stream title.
 
Do you get money from livestream?
 
9:47 PM
No.
He gets love <3
Init() for the money.
 
@Nooble I prefer std::get_money()
 
north korean version of laika i.imgur.com/VGxM2PH.gif
 
@melak47 Heh.
 

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