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10:00 AM
@rubenvb actually it's a continuous line (well it's a scatter plot with 10 thousand measurements)
 
@paul23 but there are several lines right?
 
Ye
 
And each line has something different?
And you want to know what that is generically?
How did you determine what to plot in the first place?
 
Well I plot (say) all cylinders with radius of 2 mm and under a 100bar environment against each other, to see the effect of a height.
@rubenvb Intelligence, it's what I pick to analyse.
 
@paul23 but then you have a iterable list with each item having a known property that is different.
No need to find out what it is.
Just use it?
 
10:02 AM
@rightfold cc @Ell (Noticed this whilst looking at some starred messages) Rust's "monkey patching" only works if the trait is in scope. If I impl MyTrait for bool {fn foo(){...}}, I can only do true.foo() if MyTrait is locally imported.
 
@rubenvb Well it's a python so actually I use a function with named arguments..
def get_measurements(self, shape = slice(None, None, None),
size = slice(None, None, None),
height = slice(None, None, None),
pressure = slice(None, None, None),
LE = slice(None, None, None),
fname = None)
 
@buttifulbuttefly lol
 
@Griwes but... why would you do unsafe pointer comparisons of immutable structures?
 
So the list is never "named" as a list
 
@BartekBanachewicz Me? No idea. Another someone potentially using the language might have an usecase I did not foresee, though.
 
10:05 AM
@Griwes I thought it's a language just for your personal needs.
 
Also once you have a switch that enables a low level mode, every bit of your implementation details becomes semantics.
 
sounds like a total nightmare for everyone
 
user1804599
indent or gtfo
 
implementers, users, everyone basically
 
20
Q: C code won't compile after I comment out unusued void pointer?

Koray TugayHere is my code: #include <stdio.h> #include <string.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <netdb.h> #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/socket.h> #include <arpa/inet.h> int main (void) { struct addrinfo hints; memset (&hints, 0, sizeof hints); hints.ai_family = AF_UNSPEC; hints.ai_sockt...

C is so horrible
 
10:06 AM
as a user I'd need to understand every single implementation detail apparently
 
@BartekBanachewicz So I should not think outside of my needs? I shouldn't try to foresee other people's possible use cases?
@BartekBanachewicz Once you stepped into the unsafe land, yes.
 
@Griwes you've just said it's a usecase you can't even foresee
 
@BartekBanachewicz hence "try"
 
Ven
> For some obscure and old reasons, you are not allowed to have a variable declaration as the first line after a label.
wtf???
 
hence YAGNI
 
user1804599
10:07 AM
@Ven bullshit.
 
please start reading what I'm writing entirely, instead of every second word
 
Wow clang documentation is ass.
 
user1804599
l: f();<NL>t v = x; works just fine.
 
I've read enough.
 
@Rapptz have fun!
 
10:07 AM
I already gave up
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's part of the semantics. That's how the type behaves.
 
I got cancer already
 
Ven
@rightfold ESTUPIDREMARK
 
I don't care if you agree with that or not.
Disagreeing with facts is useless.
 
@Griwes yes, I agree now
 
10:08 AM
I ripped the fuck out last year when using it also
 
And claiming isomorphic things are not isomorphic is dumb.
 
I think this is an absurdly stupid decision, too.
But hey, it's your language.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Good I don't have to follow your guts on this.
 
Pole fight
 
it's not "guts" really
 
Ven
10:09 AM
Pole cat
 
it's the fact that every single language that makes its semantics based on implementation details is a piece of shit
 
@buttifulbuttefly Calling it documentation is an insult to documentation worldwide.
 
moderating parenting.se must be the worst thing ever
 
so I can just safely throw your language into the Wide bucket of noninteresting terribleness
 
@Rapptz Several NGOs have filed lawsuits
 
10:10 AM
neeeext
 
@BartekBanachewicz Every single language that lets implementations differ gravely is a piece of shit.
@BartekBanachewicz lel
 
@BartekBanachewicz subtle
 
So the features are of no relevance to you
good to know
 
What features? It's broken by design. I don't need to see any features
Jury has made its verdict now kindly move on
 
lel
 
10:11 AM
if you want to convince me with your next language try showing a reasonable, well-thought abstract design first
 
So because I said that two things are isomorphic, my design is broken
this is extremely well conducted argument on your side here
 
@Griwes no, it's broken because you base your semantics on implementation instead of abstract foundation.
 
someone could even believe it makes sense!
@BartekBanachewicz lel
 
Ven
geez, your fight looks very productive.
I wonder if I can have a discussion as productive
 
@MarcoA. erm. Try parenting :)
 
10:12 AM
I kinda feel that I'm repeating myself right now
 
Ven
@rightfold hey rightfold, php and js are great
 
@BartekBanachewicz Let me reiterate myself for the last fucking time.
It's a type that is never copied.
 
@Griwes so that I can repeat myself yet again?
 
user1804599
They're terrible, but PHP is slightly less terrible than JS.
 
That's the semantics.
It's also immutable.
 
user1804599
10:13 AM
it has namespaces woohoo
 
That's also part of its semantics.
 
I'll save you trouble
let's meet again after we've both read Types and Programming Languages
 
How is any of this implementation details?
 
user1804599
and and and and interfaces!
 
I have to finish it anyway
and it might be a nice lecture for you
 
Ven
10:13 AM
@rightfold but `\` :(
 
after we both read it the discussion might be a tad more productive
 
@sehe try parenting with a parenting.se moderator in your house
 
user1804599
@Ven XD
 
Appeal to authority.
Oh yeah, classic Bratek
 
10:14 AM
oh well.
 
Nice one.
 
user1804599
I need a way to make singletons in Python.
 
I tried.
 
I did not see it coming in this discussion.
 
Ven
@rightfold @Singleton
 
10:15 AM
@Griwes I'm not appealing to authority. I'm proposing we cease the clearly unproductive discussion for now and go back to it when we're both smarter with relevant knowledge.
 
Ven
Perl6 is great, it even allows you to .resume on exceptions /cc @rightfold
 
Note how this isn't saying "I'm right" or "you're wrong". It's "let's leave this for now"
 
@rightfold There is ice in the whiskey ¬_¬
 
@BartekBanachewicz Nope, it was "I did read parts of that and you didn't, you suck".
Don't pretend it was anything else.
 
but if you so insist, I lack formal knowledge to refute your points in a proper way, so wow, you win. Are you happy now?
Because at least for the "unproductive" part, I'm genuinely tired with this discussion.
 
10:17 AM
@Ven woohoo, another lisp feature rediscovered in a new language and "wooo it's awesome"
 
Ven
@FlorianMargaine I'm a big lisp fan, that's why I fight to see them adopted more widely :)
 
Ven
FWIW, I still consider common lisp's system superior
 
> Perl
> new language
 
I thought you only knew autoLisp
@Griwes Perl6*
 
Ven
10:18 AM
but I just don't know another language with restarts and all.
 
@Griwes Perl6 is.
 
Ven
which is really great, because it allows to place the code where I want it to be.
 
It's still perl.
 
@Ven On Error Resume Next
@Griwes It's really rather unlike it.
"Perl6" is quite the misnomer.
 
Ven
@R.MartinhoFernandes sounds like a feature stolen from cobol :P
 
10:19 AM
Okay.
 
Ven
which means it needs aon no error ...
 
I admit I did not look at what perl6 changes. I'll try to do that in the near future.
 
@Ven It's from Visual Basic.
 
Ven
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, yes, I meant – a feature VB stole from Cobol. just because of the spelling
 
@Griwes as much as C++ is still just C
 
Ven
10:20 AM
(google told me it was from VB)
 
@rightfold Why?
 
@Ell You should read Under the Skin!
 
15 hours ago, by thecoshman
@Ell what moral problems, high welfare animals => tasty dead stuff for me
pirate is a man of high moral standards you see
> Of course, making this extension to the syntax of terms does not mean that
we intend programmers to write terms involving explicit, concrete locations:
such terms will arise only as intermediate results of evaluation. In effect,
the term language in this chapter should be thought of as formalizing an
intermediate language, some of whose features are not made available to
programmers directly.
interesting
 
10:38 AM
ITT Bartek's braindump
 
not mine, really
> . This proviso exactly
parallels the situation with free variables in all the calculi we have seen
up to this point: the substitution lemma (9.3.8) promises us that, if Γ ` t : T,
then we can replace the free variables in t with values of the types listed in
Γ to obtain a closed term of type T, which, by the type preservation theorem
(9.3.9) will evaluate to a final result of type T if it yields any result at all.
those sentences make my brain melt
 
user1804599
@Ven no
 
user1804599
>>> help(Singleton)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'Singleton' is not defined
 
Ven
good
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow I have constant implementations of an interface.
 
user1804599
10:41 AM
@Ven what does that mean?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes tl;dr :P
@BartekBanachewicz vOv I don't see a need to torture the animals I want to eat.
 
@thecoshman It's not that long. 300 pages or so.
 
> error: cannot find an overload for 'sort' that accepts an argument list of type '([Int])'
well. what else would you accept?
 
Ell
@wilx I just saw the GoT episode, it was good
 
@Ell Indeed. I would discuss it more but I guess that would spoil it for other. :)
 
10:52 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes :\ about ten nights of reading
 
Ell
Yeah :)
 
It's worth it.
 
I'm bad at spending any good time at reading :(
 
One of my favorites is long signed typedef int long lol;fredoverflow 1 min ago
 
And it's a good exploration of, among several other themes, the relation between human beings and animals.
 
user1804599
10:53 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Ord a => ([Int], Int -> a).
 
@rightfold Ah, and Python doesn't have objects like Scala and Kotlin? :)
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow indeed.
 
user1804599
class IdentityInjector(Injector):
    ...
identity_injector = IdentityInjector()
 
user1804599
Currently I'm just doing this.
 
@rightfold Did I mention I love the zip function?
for ((parameterType, argument) in signature.parameterTypes.zip(arguments)) {
    checkAssignable(parameterType, argument.type())
}
 
user1804599
10:54 AM
hmm wait
 
user1804599
I guess I can make the things class methods.
 
I thought you love unzip more
 
user1804599
I don't know whether that works with abc.
 
@chmod711telkitty You can't unzip what hasn't been zipped before!
 
user1804599
10:56 AM
Seems to work.
 
user1804599
Meh.
 
user1804599
I think zip should've been the infix operator Y.
 
user1804599
Because Y looks like a zip.
 
user1804599
In Perl 6 zip is infix operator Z, and zipWith is Z@ where @ is another binary operator.
 
10:59 AM
zip combinator
zip = zipWith (,)   -- Is it implemented like this?
 
user1804599
> ((1, 2, 3) Z (4, 5, 6)).perl
((1, 4), (2, 5), (3, 6)).list
> ((1, 2, 3) Z+ (4, 5, 6)).perl
(5, 7, 9).list
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow no idea, but that's an equivalent implementation.
 
Is (,) even a thing?
 
user1804599
zipWith f xs ys = (uncurry f) `map` (xs `zip` ys)
 
Xeo
@fredoverflow ye
 
user1804599
11:01 AM
Yes, it's the constructor of pairs.
 
user1804599
With {-# LANGUAGE TupleSections #-} you can even do (1,)!
 
Which is the same as (,)1 I suppose?
 
user1804599
YES!
 
user1804599
Only 38 lines of code needed to compute 5 * 2 + 6 twice!
 
11:04 AM
...Are you writing yet another compiler? :)
 
user1804599
No.
 
user1804599
Integration tests for a library.
 
What library?
 
Hmm I wonder if it would make sense to overload int for half a dozen cases. - Representing different physical quantaties. Just to overload the printing functions (so they round & include units)
 
user1804599
> Run python setup.py register. If you don’t have a user account already, a wizard will create one for you.
 
user1804599
11:08 AM
hhahaha a wizard
 
user1804599
imagine you read this and you have no idea what wizards are in UI terminology
 
@paul23 Sure, why not.
 
@fredoverflow Cause i never see anyone do it ;P
 
14 hours ago, by sehe
@paul23 use units
Must be on to something here
 
user1804599
11:16 AM
I want quantities, not units.
 
"How does one distinguish between quantities that are physically different but have the same units (such as energy and torque)?" - actually energy and the size of torque ARE the same.
 
> TempleOS is somewhat of a legend in the operating system community. Its sole author, Terry A. Davis, has spent the past 12 years attempting to create a new operating from scratch. Terry explains that God has instructed him to construct a temple, a 640×480 covenant of perfection. Unfortunately Terry also suffers from schizophrenia, and has a tendency to appear on various programming forums with a burst of strange, paranoid, and often racist comments. He is frequently banned from most forums.
 
He's been mentioned here in the Lounge several times.
 
@rightfold top kek
@rightfold the one is relatively useless without the other
 
> TempleOS has its own programming language, HolyC. The whole operating system is written in it, except for x64 assembly in the lower-level parts. Perhaps unexpectedly, the same language is also used for the shell. That’s right, you execute shell commands using a C-like language, and they go directly into the compiler.
wow
 
11:18 AM
@fredoverflow He's taken a break as Vlad. It's lesss stressful for him and his... "family"
@fredoverflow Sounds like "there is no spoon OS"
 
user1804599
> Every piece of code in TempleOS (except the initial kernel/compiler) is JIT compiled on demand. Yes that’s right – you can run a program without compiling it, simply by using an #include statement from the command line.
 
user1804599
lol
 
@fredoverflow Yeah. He's pretty famous.
 
user1804599
awesome
 
"You're welcome to peek/poke some ports. I miss my Sinclair. kthxbai"
 
11:20 AM
He's been TempleOS, then SparrowOS, then something else again...
 
@rightfold There Wide, eat that
@Griwes SparrOwS
 
I lost track of how many times he got banned at forum.osdev.org and how many he came back with another nickname and name for his OS.
 
Lol @ the flag
in Persian Chat, 22 hours ago, by MRS1367
@ZeinabAbbasi -> داری؟ Skype ـیه منو واسهID
 
user1804599
is DOAP still a thing?
 
Oh wait. Persian chat. Makes more sense that way
> DOAP's creator and maintainer is Edd Dumbill.
 
11:22 AM
> Dumbill
 
Qoudd Edd Demon Tantrum
 
strcat("Dumb", "ill")
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
lol
 
@buttifulbuttefly TRWTF you know how to use str* functions
@rightfold I clicked. Such disappoint
 
11:23 AM
@buttifulbuttefly You literally can't write to string literals.
 
Did I specify a language?
No, I didn't.
 
Speak C++ or forever hold your peace.
 
echo "Never";
Never
 
@rightfold git reflog?
 
11:28 AM
@fredoverflow git rightflog?
 
Ell
git furlong
 
@fredoverflow I only need to reflog once I'm truly done flogging in the first place
 
user1804599
I should name my projects "Project 1", "Project 2", etc.
 
The templeOS shell is actually a very nice idea
Quite similar to lisp machines
 
11:34 AM
With a touch of schizophrenia
 
Something quite close to this experience is using stumpwm on linux
 
is it touch optimized ?
 
It's a window manager written in lisp... And you can hook into its runtime with a REPL
And compile/etc on the fly on it
 
@khajvah it's schizophrenia optimized
 
why do they use the expression "written in lisp" as a marketing thing?
 
@buttifulbuttefly Related: news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/…
 
> Becoming disabled by choice, not chance
 
does pugi throw when attributes don't appear?
 
> everyone. Please help me. I've been searching a decision of my problem. But i've found no results... May be someone know something about this.
oh joy
Awesome clipboard fail
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz What does that have to do with reflection?
 
11:38 AM
@Xeo instance FromXML Region where fromXML = deriveGeneric or however you write that
 
Xeo
Also, that shouldn't work
Since Region is an aggregate and can only be directly initialised with brace syntax
which emplaceing doesn't do.
 
hmpfh
adding braces does't help apparently
 
Xeo
do push_back({ .... })
 
@BartekBanachewicz of course not. Write the ctor or push_back the aggregate
 
Xeo
11:40 AM
that takes the value_type as the parameter, and allows brace-init
 
Adding braces only helps for the disabled-by-chance
 
oh well minor annoyances
 
Story of c++
 
Xeo
There's a proposal to allow emplace and the make_ factories to use aggregate init, though
If T(args...) fails, it tries T{args...} or something
 
Ew as if we wanted to bolt more heads on the monster of C++ initialization
 
11:41 AM
@khajvah The worst part about is not that people like that do exist. The worst part is that there are people who seem to propagate the idea is not just mental illness:
“We define transability as the desire or the need for a person identified as able-bodied by other people to transform his or her body to obtain a physical impairment,” says Alexandre Baril, a Quebec born academic who will present on “transability” at this week’s Congress of the Social Sciences and Humanities at the University of Ottawa.
 
@Xeo and as with every sane proposal, it will become a 100-page changeset and then become rejected because of some C compat corner case
 
Xeo
No. Because that has fuck-nothing to do with C.
 
C++ can be tuned, polished and improved, but it's still the same rusty (no pun intended) machinery inside
@Xeo ... figuratively
 
user1804599
not until you dare to deprecate cruft
 
Xeo
Man. I wanna continue coding my hobby thingy
I can't stop, or I'll lose motivation again
 
11:46 AM
@Xeo what was that?
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Some hobby thingy :P
(A game)
 
yes be more cryptic and secret about it
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think it was well received.
errm
 
@Xeo does not telling anyone help actually?
 
Brainfart.
 
Xeo
11:47 AM
hahaha
dat typo
@Griwes Yeah, it was
 
Is C compatibility still important now?
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Remember this thing from the first Jam? It's a really dumbed-down version of something I've been tinkering with for a long time.
 
user1804599
Pork best jam entry.
 
@Xeo You sure do love lambdas :3
 
@Xeo I wonder why you didn't just write a class
 
Xeo
11:51 AM
47 secs ago, by Jefffrey
@Xeo You sure do love lambdas :3
I just wanted to write it all down
 
"I love lambdas" is an argument a derpstorm could use, not you :P
so, what you're adding now?
 
Xeo
Stuff.
 
whistles
 
Xeo
This whole thing comes from an idea we had way back during the tryout week at the Games Academy
There's this board game, called Isola, that is basically what I recreated there for the jam (just that you remove tiles instead of blocking them - details)
And we iterated on that idea and added some rules n stuff to make it more interesting / different
but still with the same basic idea
Right now I'm implementing those rules (it's the second iteration on the project)
Also adding tests right now
First time trying out Catch
 

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