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2:00 PM
@FISOCPP I knew you'd fall for it. Of course they're compiled
@khajvah Hip hop is so '90s
 
sehe opens a can of enlightenment on FISOCPP's ass.
4
 
lol
 
But in every case they doesn't produce low-level instructions.
 
> they doesn't
 
Yes, they does.
 
2:01 PM
Instead they use some VM.
 
@FISOCPP "compiled" or "interpreted" is an implementation detail.
 
Just like C++ does.
 
@FISOCPP lol. can you be more vague? Assembly is plenty low level
 
this chat is hilarious today
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes *do
 
2:02 PM
It's actually mentioned very early in the C++ standard.
 
But this VM is quite likely to be bare metal, right?
 
It's virtual.
There's no metal in it
 
Not like 'C#' where it's mostly .NET Runtime.
 
And C++ is mostly C++ runtime.
 
Which is not a real machine but some abstraction.
 
2:03 PM
Just like C++'s abstract machine.
It's even in the fucking name.
Your distinction is much blurrier than you think.
 
But I mean - in real 'C++' mostly compiles down to CPU instructions.
 
I doubt you can draw a line.
 
@FISOCPP You meant which language that compiles to native binaries do you like best. There. Solved
 
Yeah.
 
@FISOCPP that is true for most languages out there.
 
2:05 PM
Python?
 
What's a native binary anyway?
A Lisp program?
 
@FISOCPP Except, all languages do :) In one way or another. Perl, python, java, PHP they can all even be made into native, statically linked binaries.
 
mkbundle + aot compilation FTW
 
user1804599
flock is nice.
 
2:07 PM
"compiled language" don't exist
You don't compile a language.
 
That's kinda strange.
 
It's the world we live in!
Lisp machines are general-purpose computers designed to efficiently run Lisp as their main software language, usually through hardware support. They are an example of a high-level language computer architecture, and in a sense, they were the first commercial single-user workstations. Despite being modest in number (perhaps 7,000 units total as of 1988), Lisp machines commercially pioneered many now-commonplace technologies – including effective garbage collection, laser printing, windowing systems, computer mice, high-resolution bit-mapped graphics, computer graphic rendering, and networkin...
 
But can you compile for example 'Python' program into Intel x86 instructions.
 
A Java processor is the implementation of the Java Virtual Machine (JVM) in hardware. In other words the bytecodes that make up the instruction set of the abstract machine become the instruction set of a concrete machine. These are today the most popular form of a high-level language computer architecture. == Implementations == Up to now the following Java processors are available: picoJava was the first attempt by Sun Microsystems to build a Java processor aJ102 and aJ200 from aJile Systems, Inc.. Available on boards from Systronix Cjip from Imsys Technologies. Available on boards and wi...
There, blow away your idea of "native binary"
 
@FISOCPP Sure. That's the most common architecture for it, I think
 
2:08 PM
OK - then what about performance?
 
~~~~perfumence~~~~
 
What about it. We affectionately refer to that as ~~purrrformance~~
 
@FISOCPP C++ is my favourite language for performance critical code. But that is not a rational preference
 
What?
is ~~~~perfumence~~~~?
 
2:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sure my university already ordered four
 
@FISOCPP nothing, Jefffrey is still learning: chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=purformance&room=10
 
~~purrrformance~~ is when your program is so fast, it makes you purr!
 
Haskal is best language for preformance critical code
 
lol-cats induced
 
The only distinction between a virtual machine and a non-virtual machine is historical: we have/haven't made a concrete one yet.
 
2:11 PM
@Jefffrey I like it
 
user1804599
I don't write performance-critical code.
 
Well, there's also a philosophical difference but if you wanna go there...
 
user1804599
Problem solved!
 
I need to go buy food.
 
@khajvah I can't really concur. It's sad when people dismiss things and then crack down on the people who actually spent time trying to get a handle on information
 
user1804599
2:13 PM
Is parallel merge sort a Divide & Concur algorithm?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I sorta kinda forgot. Oh well. Tomorrow. God bless sunday openings
 
I need to cook pasta
 
user1804599
@sehe y u no joke :(
 
@rightfold Because eye tired.
 
2:14 PM
@sehe I can't do it tomorrow because I have guests to cook for tonight.
4
 
You don't cook the guests for dinner, you know
 
OK then I think language with similar VM abstraction then 'C++'.
 
weekends feel so good
 
@FISOCPP x86 is an abstraction too, as far as I know
 
2:15 PM
So it can possibly produce similar binaries as by compiling 'C++' code.
 
like you wake up and don't give a shit about anything
 
user1804599
godoc is a great tool.
 
it's an abomination too.
And a contraption
 
user1804599
I wish there were something like it for C++.
 
user1804599
Although parsing C++ code on every web request is too slow.
 
2:16 PM
I see.
 
@FISOCPP Like mentioned, many many tools do that for about any language you pick. Even godforsaken batch files can be compiled to native binaries
 
you still don't cook your guests for dinner even if you are a bit lazy
 
@FISOCPP you still don't get it.
 
user1804599
@sehe What about normal batch files?
 
I'm nibble lazy
@rightfold They don't exist
 
2:17 PM
There's a C++ compiler out there that produces Javascript 'binaries'.
 
user1804599
@sehe dat pun
 
I get it - but I want to stay with the VM abstraction of 'C++'.
with the possible use of stack and heap and so on.
 
Which abstracts away JavaScript.
 
Only C++ has the VM abstraction of C++
 
2:17 PM
GODFORSAKEN:
    IF NOT EXIST /dev/null THEN GOTO GODFORSAKEN
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think there are three of them, actually
I keep forgetting the other two
 
If your criteria is similarity to C++, C++ is objectively and undeniably the best.
 
Though I think c++17 comes close
 
user1804599
Similarity to C++ is a terrible feature!
 
Indeed
 
2:19 PM
What’s a good C++ compiler that produces C++?
 
cough - door wide open - cough
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What are the languages "similar to c++"?
 
user1804599
@LucDanton cat
 
@LucDanton clang++
 
user1804599
It's also the fastest C++ compiler.
 
user1804599
2:20 PM
Sucks at diagnostics, though.
 
There is such thing and it's called clang-modernize.
C++ to C++11.
 
@LucDanton definitely MSVC
 
user1804599
And accepts a lot of ill-formed programs.
 
Well sort of.
 
but I'm not sure that it produces C++ stuff
I think it produces errors
 
user1804599
2:20 PM
Why would I want a tool that converts my C++ code into C++11 code?
 
user1804599
I already use C++17!
 
MSVC is not even a C++ compiler
 
@rightfold Because you're lazy
Okay. See you later chaps
 
user1804599
C++11 is so primitive it doesn't even have std::make_unique lol.
 
Or generic lambdas
 
2:21 PM
if you want more tools, use C# instead
 
user1804599
I love Go.
 
But it doesn't have VLA!
Which kinda sucks.
 
What is VLA?
 
user1804599
#pragma GCC diagnostic push
#pragma GCC diagnostic ignored "-Wvla-extension"
...
#pragma GCC diagnostic pop
 
user1804599
Problem solved!
 
2:23 PM
@FISOCPP Thank god. It's the worst feature of C (except array decay to pointers).
Fuck VLA.
 
Why so?
 
lol VLA
 
They are faster then heap ones.
 
@FISOCPP Irrelevant.
 
@khajvah Variable length array
 
user1804599
2:24 PM
I want to write a vector-like class template that uses storage given to its constructor as a pointer and a size.
 
user1804599
Then you can use alloca with non-PODs.
 
sizeof(expression_containing_vla_array) isn't a compile-time expression.
It's incompatible with the rest of the language.
 
79
A: Variable length arrays in C++?

Johannes Schaub - litbThere recently was a discussion about this kicked off in usenet: Why no VLAs in C++0x. I agree with those people that seem to agree that having to create a potential large array on the stack, which usually has only little space available, isn't good. The argument is, if you know the size before...

 
Also they have magical typedefs
 
user1804599
Although maybe it's possible using an allocator.
 
user1804599
2:25 PM
It would be nice for my interpreter which currently stores local variables and the operand stack on the heap.
 
@FISOCPP Also they don't prevent breaking your program horribly.
Good luck fighting all these stack overflows.
 
I still don't get how VLAs are implemented
 
Magic
 
How is the stack built if it doesn't know how much to allocate?
 
The stack has fixed size anyway.
 
2:26 PM
and?
 
@khajvah The compiler doesn't know how much stack space will be used by the program anyway.
 
@khajvah SUB ESP, EAX
 
@Jefffrey I see, that makes sense
 
The claim that variable-length arrays (which someone mistakenly takes to mean "stack arrays") are faster than "heap ones" has been disproven here before.
 
Although I suppose that more then one VLA would require more complex implementation.
 
2:30 PM
what if you allocate bigger array than the stack max-size?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why and where?
 
Stack is always faster then heap.
 
2:30 PM
What?
 
Standard probably says UB though.
 
Now I see why VLAs are not good
 
It's the same transistors, bub.
There are no stack transistors and no heap transistors.
 
But heap requires additional code for finding appropartive piece.
 
@FISOCPP a pointer
 
user1804599
2:32 PM
Stack allocations are typically faster than heap allocations, assuming default allocation routines.
 
Exactly.
 
user1804599
Accessing and storing data is totally irrelevant.
 
@FISOCPP if you assume the worst possible implementation, yes, the worst possible implementation is worse.
 
So you mean that 'malloc' for example can use the stack ?
 
2:33 PM
What then?
 
given md5(x), is it possible to find md5(x+<some character(s)>)?
 
I mean that the stack is only minimally special.
 
i'm desperate ;_;
 
This is becoming boring
 
user1804599
@Blob sure.
 
user1804599
2:34 PM
It'll just take a very long time to find it.
 
@Blob No
 
The stack is an abstraction built on the same memory as the heap is.
 
user1804599
I hope testing.T is thread-safe: gist.github.com/rightfold/4fd2c5e4d56946839948
 
user1804599
Very nice. :D
 
2:39 PM
@sehe I am just not paying attention enough.
 
But in the end the stack (as you envision it, which is a limited view anyway) is just a contiguous chunk of memory split into a used and an unused half with a pointer to the unused half.
It happens that on x86 there's a register to hold that pointer.
Now think about it and explain why that contiguous chunk of memory is so much faster than any other chunk.
 
ok, given md5(x+<somestr>), is it possible to find md5(x+<somestr2>)?
plis, i thought md5 was broken ;(
 
What people need when they need VLAs is fast allocation, not "stackness".
 
@Blob A hash function is supposed to generate very different hashes with small input changes
So I would expect x and x2 to generate completely different hashes.
 
2:54 PM
haha I'm so fucking funny hunny
> I spent at least half an hour trying to think up something witty to say to this. In the end I just had to give up. I'd reached my wit's end.
3
#lulz
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's not necessarily contiguous.
 
user1804599
Some systems use linked lists of buffers.
 
user1804599
> FailNow must be called from the goroutine running the test or benchmark function, not from other goroutines created during the test. Calling FailNow does not stop those other goroutines.
 
user1804599
fück
 
@rightfold hence the parenthetical.
 
user1804599
3:07 PM
Ah ok. :P
 
✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓✓
 
pizza on the way
yay
 
I'm cooking a delicious birthday feast
Mini roasted potatoes in garlic and all sorts of herbs with a delightful grilled ribeye steak.... next to a bottle of Moet Ice
yeahhhh
 
is it your birthday or sth
 
what is this tomalak business
 
@Prismatic noob
 
@Prismatic tomalak = LRiO
 
3:20 PM
@Prismatic that's tomalak get rekt all for you.
that formatting is off
the wait for pizza when hungry is comparable to the wait for a bus or train with 30 deg outside
and no shadow to hide under
 
eat your fingers as appetizer
 
I don't want to eat anything before eating pizza
I need the unaltered nourishing sensation
 
user1804599
Maybe I should generalise my lock to work with any path.
 
user1804599
Not just user directories.
 
wtf
a salad made of vegetables turned to ash
 
3:39 PM
Isn't that carcinogenic?
 
it is afaik
 
What's your favorite cancer?
 
the blue one
 
Hmm. Forgot cheese. Dammit.
 
you also forgot this
Cancer (♋) is the fourth astrological sign, which is associated with the constellation Cancer. It spans the 90-120th degree of the zodiac, between 90 and 125.25 degree of celestial longitude. Under the tropical zodiac, the Sun transits this area on average between June 21 and July 21, and under the sidereal zodiac, the Sun transits this area between approximately July 16 and August 15. A person under this sign is called a Moon child.The symbol of the crab is based on the Karkinos, a giant crab that harassed Hercules during his fight with the Hydra. The Cancer-Leo cusp lasts from July 21 to July...
sadly I don't know any people born under that sign :(
 
3:44 PM
What's a nice cheese for melting over delicious food?
 
all of them.
 
They don't have the right kind here in Germany.
 
you can melt any cheese you like I guess
@LightningRacisinObrit that looks tasty af
 
Looks good
 
3:45 PM
it's fucking amazing
this is the best meal I've ever cooked
 
Happy birthday.
 
remind me why you're not married again
 
@LightningRacisinObrit what is that wine?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Moet Ice, baby
champagne for beaches
 
@LightningRacisinObrit mmm; never even seen here in Slovakia
 
user1804599
3:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes depends on the food.
 
I have the lamest astrological sign
it's just a fish
 
you make it sound like somehow one of them is not very lame.
 
user1804599
I wouldn't melt brie over a dame blanche.
 
no two
 
they're all lame.
 
3:49 PM
@Puppy they kinda are lol yeah
I remember having a classmate really obsessed with astrology and not wanting to deal with people not compatible with him or sth
 
@Alex it's two fishes
 
2 mins ago, by Alex M.
no two
noticed it later down the wiki page
 
goat sign is best sign
 
isn't that satan?
 
liro is a ram
 
3:53 PM
@AlexM. Why would condemn him to that? Poor guy.
 
an hour has passed and still no pizza
fak
this is a great song to ease the pain of waiting for pizza
 
@ScarletAmaranth I'd never seen it until I saw it on offer at an Ibizan duty free late last year and my mum educated me
it's proper good stuff
 
@LightningRacisinObrit there's Tokaj / Tokaji from southern Slovakia / Hungary available here; awesome stuff
 
4:09 PM
@Alex I have that album.
A friend's gift from last birthday.
 
the warning message alert in KDE sounds like the menu selection from a Zelda game
 
pizza pls :(
dot jaypeg
I'm dying here
 
4:25 PM
Did that place that was super late with your pizza ever give you a free one
 
I never ordered from them again
it's chilly and rainy today so I guess lots of people stay inside and order stuff
maybe that's why it takes so long
actually chilly is a fucking understatement wtf it's 9 deg outside
yesterday it was like 24 deg
combine that with pretty strong winds and I can see why nobody would want to go out
 
curl up at home with a nice warm pizza
 
I got one extra for tomorrow too
don't wanna leave this place until I have to go to work
 
@ScarletAmaranth I was a fan of Juhasz' Egri Bikaver
In Hungary
 
@Jeremy ye, Hungary is fairly wine-friendly
 
4:32 PM
@ScarletAmaranth Eger is just a bit west of Tokaj
Lots of good wine in that region generally.
 
still enjoying my £70 bottle of champagne heehee
@AlexM. gorgeous today
probably closer to that 24ºC here
 
Hello boys and LRiO
 
even the weather in the UK is nice on LRiO's birthday
amazing
I wonder how much it'd cost to visit copenhagen
 
Happy birthday @LightningRacisinObrit if it is your birthday
 
4:38 PM
thanks :D
@AlexM. yeah it was cold last night and lovely today
got lucky
 
> I could wax lyrical about Denmark’s capital all day – and week, and month – because it is a painfully pretty place (see my black and white photos)
nothing quite as good at showing a city's beauty as black and white photos
fucking hipsters
 
Happy birsday liteness :)
 
ta mara
@AlexM. lol
can't wait to get my old nick back -.-
 
still no pizza
 
2 hours ago, by Alex M.
pizza on the way
Tell me it's not the same pizza
 
user1804599
4:46 PM
Hmm, I have an idea for Mill.
 
despite what SO says, that was closer to three hours ago
 
user1804599
Names are exported iff they have documentation comments.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit yes that's when I ordered it
 
user1804599
:D :D :D
 
presumably you have made several phone calls to the establishment?
an hour is basically pushing it
 
4:47 PM
I ordered it online through a third party so that I don't have to waste time on the phone
 
three hours something is wrong
 
nah it's 2 hours
I ordered at 17:57
now it's 19:47
 
2 hours is a lot
 
15:10 -> 17:47
 
1 hour is quite common here
 
4:48 PM
that's 2hrs ~40mins
@AlexM. no you didn't
unless you lied to us
 
My pizza takes 20 minutes to make in the good ol' US of A
 
my pizza is ~30mins in good ol' Slovaki of A
 
when I pick up pizza from a [crappy late night] takeaway it takes 5 minutes
@ScarletAmaranth lol
 
yes I did
 
@ScarletAmaranth :D
 
4:48 PM
in the good old Czech Republi of C we have slower services
 
@AlexM. well then you deserve everything you get, frankly
 
see 17:57
 
there's no lying in the Lounge
 
I'm not lying :(
 
4:49 PM
ohhhhhhhh UTC timestamps
sorry
it's 16:10 -> 17:49 (BST)
 
how dare you lie to us about when exactly you bought a pizza?
 
sorry and fuck you chat
 
who's chat?
 
r u srs
and why is Robot's announcement that he is cooking for guests tonight starred four damn times
 
4 guests from the Lounge maybe
 
4:52 PM
;p
fyi
4
Q: Use local time on the chat search results page

Lightning Racis in ObritThe search results page for chat lists times in UTC. My local timezone is BST and this is correct elsewhere in chat. Since UTC is used for timestamps on SO proper, at the very least this is an inconsistency with the similarly-rendered timestamps in just chat. We should be consistent in which t...

 
I'm starting to stop being hungry
 
@LightningRacisinObrit yes
 
@AlexM. heh
I know what you mean
here, have a lovely picture to make you hungry again
 
:(
 
thank you now I'm hungry too
 
4:59 PM
I see people being cruel. I won't mention what I'm about to eat then
 

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