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10:00 AM
@BartekBanachewicz In a similar notion I propose we replace C++'s ~A with Annihilator<A>
 
ya know, constexpr is not enough. I still want type-level strings.
 
I said like 50 times here, and everytime everyone seems to hate on me, that what we really want is constexpr function arguments.
compile-time strings would be possible with that.
 
compile-time strings are already possible without your proposal
 
except they're not
 
The Halo 5 Beta size was 10.27GB
Halo 5 release date is 10.27
Mind blown
 
10:03 AM
except they are
 
no time to talk now
 
@chmod711telkitty that's after it ate most of the smaller cats
 
be back in ~30 min
 
@sehe how does it catch those smaller cats?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's too easy to achieve
 
10:07 AM
@chmod711telkitty That is one pissed off bird
 
Never mind, I have done this before.
In 2012.
 
@Rapptz ok, so how would you get compile-time strings?
 
10:23 AM
there are two ways
Char arr[N] or const char* arr; size_t N; in a UDT with constexpr constructors
and then just constexpr it up
 
lol the site I order hardware from changes the name of the tab where you place the order to "Don't forget to send the order" if you switch to another tab
 
e.g. mine or the one in sprout or anything you can find online really.
 
@Rapptz ok, now implement operator+
 
scroll down noob
 
nvm that
now implement printf() that checks its arguments at compile-time using your 'compile-time' string
 
10:31 AM
It's possible, I just don't care about your goal post movement.
 
everytime you guys said it's possible
like 3 different times
never showed even a toy example
 
it is possible though
 
or a link
(and a macro doesn't count)
 
it's not practical at all (like most of C++ TMP)
but it is possible
 
@Rapptz lol
 
10:32 AM
how?
 
here you go
this uses a different type of string storage though
 
is MPLLIBS_STRING a macro?
 
keep moving the goal post m8
 
#ifdef MPLLIBS_STRING
#  error MPLLIBS_STRING already defined
#endif
#define MPLLIBS_STRING MPLLIBS_V2_STRING
apparently
 
10:36 AM
4 mins ago, by orlp
(and a macro doesn't count)
 
stud begin stud end
 
The semantics of this macro is demonstrated by an example. The following

MPLLIBS_STRING("hello")
is equivalent to

string<'h','e','l','l','o'>
@orlp why
 
@ParkYoung-Bae ikr
BUGS ME
 
it's horrible
 
the more he kept going the more it looked like something I've done before
and the PTSD started kicking in
 
10:38 AM
I can’t think of anything else than MPL strings :( I recall Johannes had a macro to go literal->string though, does that ring a bell to anybody?
 
@BartekBanachewicz because usage of a macro indicates something is missing in the actual language
 
user1804599
Alright, so how to compile seq expressions?
 
gave me the same feeling I had when implementing it: "damn this feels stupid"
 
user1804599
I need to generate a state machine.
 
@orlp of course there's something missing in the actual language, it's c++
 
10:38 AM
what's the programming jargon for properties or attributes that automatically notify and update each other? Like, say I have 'width' and 'height', and a dependent 'area'. If either width or height are manipulated, area is notified and recalculated.
 
duh
@Pris cached getters
the recalc should be lazy btw
 
Lol
 
in which case we might go straight to lazy eval and kick the whole concept out of the window thanks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I mean more vocabulary used for the idea of updating area automatically. I'm aware of lazy evaluation
 
@Rapptz I don’t think I’ve seen the talk. What stupid thing did you implement?
 
10:40 AM
@Pris why would you want to update it
 
hey @LucDanton can you help me a bit? trying to remember the proposal that suggested template<typename CharT, CharT... characters> for UDLs
 
until you need that value there's no point in updating it
 
Does that sound familiar to you?
 
@Rapptz funky
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah that's lazy evaluation
 
10:41 AM
amazing*
 
@Rapptz inasmuch as there were one or more such proposals :s I don’t think I even remember the timeframe though
 
Is 'binding' the right term?
 
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Pris why would you want to update it
can you answer that?
I'm curious
 
I’d Ctrl-F 'literal' the paper lists.
I remember the proposal (and hopefully not something unrelated) suggested parser-like utilities to go char... Cs -> integral, too, but not what that was called
 
Oh... its just to implement something where properties are automatically updated. So say you have a window and in that window you have a square. That square's edge length is half the width of the window. When you resize the window you automatically update the square
So,
square.edge_length = window.width*0.5;
 
10:43 AM
pls lord help me find this amazing paper
author was richard smith
come on memory
 
@Pris FRP?
 
Really? That should narrow it down.
 
But that's not in an 'imperative' sense, I want it to be... a 'permanent' relationship
 
actually sounds like FRP
 
ok, ill look up FRP
 
10:43 AM
@Pris yeah, it's functional. And reactive.
@Pris it's Functional Reactive Programming
 
looking it up gives me that proposal about size_t UDLs
meh
 
Please let there be a magical C++ FRP library
 
@Rapptz N3599?
 
@Pris ahahahahahhaa
ohohohohohohohoh
hihihiihihihih
Nope.
 
@LucDanton yesss
as you can see from the example
that's why I brought it up
 
10:45 AM
@Pris The best language to try out FRP nowadays is prolly Elm, but sure Haskell should do fine.
there's some notion in JS too, and in Scala (but there for different thingies)
 
I'm not looking for a language switch, I want this to be done in c++. I've done 'FRP' or whatever in QML for example
 
I had the entire page memorised except for the stupid title and number.
 
STUD ARRAY
 
you're going to love this talk
 
Paper has no revision.
 
10:46 AM
@Pris C++ isn't a good fit for that paradigm imho vOv
 
Its 'stid', not 'stud'
 
did this get accepted
 
Saying "I want to do FRP in C++" sounds as wise as "I want do to OOP in Haskell"
 
I would pay money for this to get accepted if possible
 
user1804599
bukkake
 
10:47 AM
which, incidentally, is what I was trying to do, failing spectacularly
 
fuck yes it is
 
wait what
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah but at the end of the day don't you have to implement FRP in some imperative layer? I don't know how haskell and stuff 'compiles' but its gotta become a set of sequential instructions at some point
 
IS IT NOT?
 
@Pris yes everything is assembly in the end. Your point?
 
10:47 AM
@Pris It's just a method call
 
GCC 4.9 has it
 
uuuuh are you defining an integral UDL?
 
Haskell is natively compiled but that's completely irrelevant when writing in Haskell
 
@BartekBanachewicz That there's gotta be some way of implementing an FRP layer in something like C++. You said that JS has something resembling FRP and that runs on a c++ vm.
Im probably in over my head tho
 
Of course there is
 
10:49 AM
@Pris it doesn't matter what it runs on. It's a different language
I'm not saying it's not possible in C++ at all
 
user1804599
haha FRP in C++
 
@Rapptz Well thank you
 
It will just be totally not-transparent to the user
 
the last time I tried I attempted <char... Cs> (right before I embarked into string_view territory)
 
but it's likely to be annoyingly nonsensical/verbose/limited/annoying
 
I had completely forgotten about the proposal and the expected form for the UDL
 
@BartekBanachewicz So like the rest of c++? ohohoho
 
> Returns zero or one values
> values
good job
 
I'm guessing this doesn't have the null terminator
 
@Pris There are some things that are short and fine in C++
like dunno, advanced memory management
 
10:50 AM
oh it says that in the proposal
 
Do keep in mind it could easily be an extension. E.g. GCC still has []<typename T>, no?
 
Creating a pooling allocator in C++ is pretty easy
 
such a good feature
 
OTOH limiting Haskell to a RAM pool is neigh impossible
 
I remember longing for this for days
and you wanna take it away from me?!
 
10:51 AM
Unrelated: there’s an std::as_const proposal.
 
@LucDanton what's that o.O
 
std::to_underlying pls
 
@Rapptz I’m tempering the excitement until it’s justified :)
 
@ParkYoung-Bae 2022
can't be too radical with our features
 
template lambda?
 
10:52 AM
@melak47 It was decided to cram even more symbols into one expression.
 
You know sometimes I wonder why I stick with C++
 
I sometimes wonder why I stick with Haskell
then I remember I know no better alternatives
 
@ParkYoung-Bae "Get me off of Bjarne's wild ride!"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Did you figure out that thing you were stuck on
 
@BartekBanachewicz niceme.me
 
10:53 AM
@ParkYoung-Bae stockholm syndrome
 
13 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
I need to sober up and process that answer tomorrow
@Rapptz lol wut
 
@LucDanton Clang has it also.
 
@Pris I think that answer has the key to victory
 
> Straw Poll: Revise with additional machinery for compile time string processing
 
It expresses runnable stateful application component using category theory; it can't be wrong!
 
10:54 AM
@Rapptz The ride never ends!
 
So expect a revised proposal for C++1z? (the straw poll has 10 'strongly favor', nothing against)
 
user1804599
Alright, this is awesome.
 
time to bump at least one library to C++1z lol
@Rapptz We did it!
 
Such a good feature only a mean person would decline such a great addition.
 
10:55 AM
^excitement at last
 
I like this type safe printf thing
 
Hey it also has Vandevoorde on board, dang I should read the statuses more often
 
I think it's clever.
A bit too clever.
 
/cc @R.MartinhoFernandes @Xeo apparently GCC/Clang have potentially-C++1z true compile-time UD string literal operators.
On a second reading, this jumble makes no sense. time for a break
 
what jumble
 
10:58 AM
words
 
it's okay I'm excited too
 
user1804599
switch true > else if.
 
user1804599
Fuck else if.
 
Question is
What revisions does it need?
 
wanna bet decltype( "blah"_symbol ) won’t mangle? :v
@Rapptz I took the straw poll to mean that library-additions will have to be (re)thought.
The core language feature being un-controversial.
 
11:01 AM
There hasn't been a meeting since 29/10?
 
I think so. Assuming you mean non tele-conference stuff.
 
@orlp now, head over to mpllibs metaparse. And stay there for a good few weeks /cc @Rapptz
(I know, it's not really something I'd use, but still)
 
> warning: string literal operator templates are a GNU extension [-Wgnu-string-literal-operator-template]
 
user1804599
 
@Rapptz Did you see that? Could have told me :v
 
11:04 AM
no
 
it warns on -std=gnu++1z, that’s stupid isn’t it?
 
I had -Wall too
Yeah a bit lol
I did g++ -std=c++14 -Wall -pedantic
 
@Rapptz Mmh well that’s the Coliru Clang (I honestly meant that break lol)
 
I'll try locally
 
@LucDanton yes, but what'd it do?
 
11:05 AM
No warnings on -std=c++14 -Wall -Wextra -pedantic
4.9.2
 
Sep 4 '14 at 7:11, by Luc Danton
auto&& result = [&blah]<std::size_t... Indices>(std::index_sequence<Indices...>)
{
    return some_pack_expansion<Indices>(blah)...;
}(std::make_index_sequence<N> {});
hth!
 
Why the fuck does Windows swap out everything if there's no activity for a while.
It's ridiculous.
 
@Rapptz Yeah to clarify it’s Clang warning about using a GCC extension. GCC don’t really care when you do lol
 
Oh whoa you did mention Clang.
 
I forgot to when I first posted the message though, I thought it would be obvious (but it’s not)
also Clang does mangle correctly
 
11:09 AM
I didn't know Clang had -std=gnu++1z
 
Do keep in mind Clang does go to some lengths to work as a drop-in replacement to the gcc driver
 
GNU/C++
 
@ParkYoung-Bae lol
 
it's weird for it to warn about it being a gnu extension considering it was proposed by one of the clang guys and implemented before GCC
@LucDanton Containers as ranges.
 
I don’t use Clang enough to comment. E.g. what does it do for []<typename T>? I though it would always error out?
@Rapptz bahaha
 
11:11 AM
I didn't finish the talk because of orlp
so iunno
might be premature
doubt it (stopped at 58:35)
 
Speaking of extensions, libc++ not having operator""sv is kinda annoying
 
For Sieverts?
 
main.cpp:18:35: error: invalid suffix on literal; C++11 requires a space between literal and identifier [-Wreserved-user-defined-literal]
    static_assert( s.data == "lol"sv );
the fuck?
 
Xeo
wat
 
I’m guessing Clang hardcodes the reserved suffixes then (s etc.)
 
11:14 AM
alright time to vanish for 10 hours or so
 
spooky
 
@Rapptz gnight
 
Xeo
@Rapptz That's a long vanish - what did you skill for that?
 
user1804599
@ParkYoung-Bae volatile string!
 
11:16 AM
@LucDanton Interesting. Is this in some paper?
 
user1804599
@AlexM. Intelligence? CIA-endorsed?
 
it's NSA's detergent
to spy on your washer
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Read up.
Mar 25 at 2:23, by Luc Danton
basic_string_view::compare is specified in terms of traits::compare, but the latter is not constexpr
and it’s the same for ::length as used in the CharT const* constructor
 
@LucDanton a bit :)
 
11:29 AM
@sehe I was using it sarcastically @_@ it’s not one of those things I say
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's true even in virtual machines o.O
@LucDanton ikr!
 
@sehe The only result is that when you come back everything has to swap back in. So facepalmy.
 
Given an object A, what are good technical terms for:
1. Other Objects that depend on A
2. Objects that A depends on
 
I don't wanna spoil your learning experience, but here is: stackoverflow.com/questions/8706356/…. As posed, your question is way too broad and lacks the actual code you're stuck on. It also manages to "fuzzily" ask more questions in one. Would you like me to vote as "too broad" or as a duplicate of the one I linked? — sehe 23 mins ago
Modern tactics: diplomacy over downvotes (I default to "too broad" in the mean time)
@R.MartinhoFernandes And somehow they make it so that is surprisingly slow too
 
@Pris Dependents, dependencies
 
11:33 AM
I recommend not using 'reverse dependencies' because that always confuses me.
 
Steve? Is that you?
 
@CatPlusPlus I like that but they sound too similar to each other, I feel like I'd screw up em
 
Reverse relation is rarely interesting
 
> undefined reference to `_ZN6stringIcJLc108ELc111ELc108EEE4dataE'
 
> Ms Leeder has a previous conviction for assaulting a police officer
@LucDanton stop doing compile time strings :)
 
11:36 AM
Alternatively call them clients
 
@sehe On the contrary, I want more compile-time to the point the linker shuts up! (Or alternatively I can provide the missing definition. I was having fun with the mangling, c++filt doesn’t seem to deal with it on Coliru.)
 
printf $(printf '"\\x%x\\x%x\\x%x\\n"' 108 111 108)
"lol"
 
wait what
oh, good eye
 
Yeah. You don't fool me :)
 
Xeo
11:40 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I have no idea what that means
 
@Xeo Looks like a visualisation of discrete Fourier transform.
 
> A real Rube Goldberg machine would do the actual work by using a DB abstraction layer to call a stored procedure, which would in turn use COM to open an Excel document and run a VBA macro which would fetch the result from a REST webservice written in node.js

FTFY
Very well played
@LucDanton I'm mildly surprised the mangling doesn't use hex (or even base64/base96)
 
I’ve never really looked into it, but the Itanium mangling scheme has always looked very naive and space-inefficient to me.
 
I have not looked into it much (except for the odd SO answer about parsing mangled names as I remember)
 
then you learn time spent linking is time spent comparing those strings :v oh well
 
11:46 AM
Such a shame that I never got the accept here stackoverflow.com/a/7576261/85371
 
Watched animation, am still like "yep, that's magic"
Also transforms ughhhh
 
@Xeo what robot said
 
Also woo Monday another week of nonsense I'm so excited
 
also fuck people who thought differing line endings between oses is a good idea
fucking shitty fuck
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Only 4 days of nonsense, so!
And after that, a 10-day break \o/
 
11:51 AM
difference between newlines is a prime example of the whole industry being retarded bullshit
 
@BartekBanachewicz Solution to that is trivial
Just use \n
Literally the only downside is that Notepad can't handle them
(Well if you use VS then use \r\n because VS is bad)
 
I just realized how much better Java naming convention would be in French. PointDeManagementService instead of ServicePointManagement
@BartekBanachewicz luckily there are no such persons around
 
@sehe Either I’m not getting it or you translated wrong.
 
@CatPlusPlus VS is basically the non-free version of NotePad The App™
@LucDanton false dichotomy :)
 
Notepad Enterprise
 
11:56 AM
@CatPlusPlus hngh
 
bolero-murakami.github.io/Sprout/docs/libs/index.html -> containers.. math functions.. ray tracing. Find the intruder.
 
@LucDanton To be honest, I closed the tab that I spotted the original name on. It was... better.
 
@sehe False false dichotomy. I’m open to the idea that both alternatives are true!
 
@sehe why couldn't they just come up with one or the other and use that everywhere
 
Who's "they"?
 
11:57 AM
whoever writes software that has to deal with one or the other
 
Yeah. Because you can totally chose the line end conventions and change them if your OS doesn't agree with your religion
 
why is there no ISO for text documents
 
Well, that's part of the origin yes.
 
\r\n is more typewriter like
 
Precisely
There used to be several religions holy standards; EBCDIC vs. ASCII anyone?
 
11:58 AM
well, to the point, I've introduced another bug in the code because of that
 
QA didn't catch that apparently
but again I was told to be "more careful"
 
How did you do that?
 
@sehe No thanks, you can keep them.
 

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