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user1804599
9:04 AM
 
ergh... you provide message to help warn people they are doing derpy things... and they still do derpy things
 
user1804599
I might look into Java interop.
 
user1804599
but fibers
 
user1804599
Does .NET offer fibers?
 
9:12 AM
Java interop means you are enterprise ready
well... you need a gimicy logo
 
user1804599
> No. There isn't a Fiber API in the Framework.
 
user1804599
ugh
 
lol java and "enterprise"
you mean overblown codebases with legacy code
 
user1804599
jealous of the ecosystem?
 
so, I understand join for Maybe
how does join work for other monads?
@райтфолд no, why would I be?
Most of the java libraries I used were horrible
I used some C# ports and the ones that were changed to use properties were bearable, the pure java-like ones were even more horrible
I dreaded having to look for a library when writing java
 
user1804599
9:20 AM
At least they exist and work.
 
user1804599
Same for tools.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I mean code that has a purpose
 
@thecoshman hahaha
fulfilling yet another cryptic client demands for shitty software, you call that a purpose?
not even mentioning the fact of how much of that code is plainly unnecessary even for that
@райтфолд a stone also works when hitting nails, but it's primitive and annoying to use. Your point?
 
user1804599
I don't care if the client pays me for it.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz It's better than having to create the tool myself.
 
9:23 AM
@райтфолд Sounds like a great business model.
 
user1804599
I'd rather use a stone.
 
user1804599
And a stone is better than a sheet of paper for it.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Sure. It pays a lot more than doing nothing for money at all.
 
Money and code don't go very well together apparently
 
user1804599
Being a wanderer and living a nice life neither do.
 
9:25 AM
money and code go great together, it's pretentious academic perfectionism that doesn't get along with money.
 
@райтфолд that's actually debatable
 
yes, java is shit, but it get's the job done. Same for C++, C#
3
 
user1804599
Besides
 
user1804599
Bad code creates jobs, and jobs are good.
 
@thecoshman You know, don't take it personally, but it annoys jack shit of me to hear fucking cavemen trowing stones complaining about the research being made the fruits of they can only appreciate several decades later.
Sure, my java rants are pointless, because java has its place and I shouldn't laugh at java programmers.
 
user1804599
9:27 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Good.
 
user1804599
I like it when you are annoyed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh sure, research is fine, it has to be done, we can't wallow in crap forever. But you have concede that whilst you are fluting around in fairy land, it's manual labour that keeps shit churning.
@Puppy how can it fail!
 
@thecoshman that keeps what
 
@BartekBanachewicz 'shit churning'
 
9:29 AM
every toaster software you make brings a new toaster to the world and that's that.
 
Like it or not, there are huge code bases that need to be maintained in shitty languages
 
@thecoshman That doesn't mean we should create more of those.
 
o_0 what sort of over engineered Haskell toaster needs software?
 
@thecoshman I seem to have a large collection of those:(
 
turn grill on, slide bread under, sip coffee for a short while, remove toast, load it up with goodness, realise you have left the grill on for hours.
 
9:31 AM
@thecoshman What I'm trying to say is that if you don't see the problems with those "shitty" codebases and languages, you can hardly make any progress.
Consider "java sucks".
 
Consider "2 + 2 = 4"
 
It prolly does a bit. Now ask the same person: "what would you change in it to improve it?"
bah silence
if he's uneducated he'll spit out breaking changes or say something about "kill it with fire"
that's where your "pretentious academic perfectionism" comes in.
 
in my experience, it's the codebase itself that is shitty. The language is usually just not much of an issue
 
@thecoshman see I've heard that there are people called "software architects" that try to improve that
somehow I don't think they're really succeeding
 
@thecoshman Except when the language encourages antipatterns and excessive bloat at every step (looking at you, Java).
 
user1804599
9:35 AM
Also the language has nothing to do with this.
 
user1804599
We were talking about libraries and tools.
 
we need some sort of 'legacy amnesty' where all the big codebases just stop trying to hack in more features and spend like a month actually being cleaned up.
 
welp, I actually think that most of the people agree right now that the choice of the language impacts design choices
@thecoshman We also need unicorns.
 
@BartekBanachewicz and how does crapskell help us?
 
user1804599
Implementing and maintaining a non-trivial library is always more expensive than using a well-implemented existing one with a crappy API.
 
9:37 AM
@thecoshman I want to star this
 
@thecoshman have you seen dons's slides from the last presentation about sc?
 
@Griwes again, it's bad programming that results in bloat. Most of the time getting someone else in on my code results in slimming down so much of my code.
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I don't care, just do it if you want
 
@thecoshman Are you telling us you suck
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara that I am not perfect
 
@thecoshman When a language ships with a set of libraries, and the libraries are extremely shitty, then it is the language's fault.
 
9:38 AM
@thecoshman Hence
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Are you Cicada? :D
 
Yes but how does replying "hence" give me away, though
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara it's all in the details
 
~you know me all too well~
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Very clearly. :D
 
9:40 AM
43 concise slides
have fun.
 
That pdf again!
 
@Griwes and when a developer sticks with those shitty libraries? Even when better 'standard' libraries are now provided, and everyone admits the old ones are terrible and shameful and are only there to avoid breaking all the code that is using them still.
 
@thecoshman Java doesn't have these "better" libraries.
 
I was trying to sniff out some less known places to travel to in Australia & was guided to this national park. On its official web page, I found this:
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara it's great
 
9:43 AM
looks like a well fed wild crocodile ...
I am getting all suspicious ...
 
@chmod711telkitty Well fed, i.e., not hungry. Sounds safe. :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think it's great too, but frankly it's more about careful design and typing than Haskell itself!
(Not that I have anything against Haskell)
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara it's just a tool for them, because they already knew how to do that, if you want to go that way
if you're a java shop with 90s philosophy, then you'll find the "proper" ideas, patterns etc. p much in Haskell itself
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes
Omg I and Bartek agree on something!
 
Oh come on Haskell is just a programming language.
@AMostMajestuousCapybara used to happen more often back in the day, huh
 
9:52 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes I was still young and naive
(jk)
 
so were I~
don't tell Jefffrey
let's talk about C++
 
> "auto" is the seed from which a gigantic maintenance nightmare will grow. Those four letters constitute C++'s suicide note. In 20 years time, the few remaining C++ coders will curse "auto", amid the howling winds of the post apocalypse wasteland. Imagine Charlton Heston weeping on a desolate beach, kneeling before a giant "a" and "u", with the edge of the "t" just emerging from the breaking waves.
 
/r/programming in a nutshell
 
lol
 
9:56 AM
@FredOverflow urgh
 
LRiO couldn't've found a better moment to come in. lol
 
it's really cool that rand is being removed
but
does that mean that C rand is going to go from C++ too?
because if they only remove the C++ version idiots will just use the C one which is even worse
 
> The C random library has always been… to put it politely… less than ideal. Okay, it’s pretty fucking horrible. It’s so bad that the C standard itself suggests you’d be better off not using it
AHAHAHAHAHAH
 
10:00 AM
what
no it doesn't
 
> Because the generator is initialized with a fixed seed, and because the steps PCG uses to generate random numbers are simple, Clang's optimizer runs the generator at compile time and produces the output constants directly.
> Great, so if I'm attacking a program which uses it I don't even need to work out the seed value.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it has global state dude
 
loooool
 
@BartekBanachewicz that has nothing to do with what I said
 
@BartekBanachewicz What's a "global state dude"? static dude_t dude;?
 
10:03 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ah you meant the C standard mention
anyway who cares kill rand salt the earth
it's great that they're kicking it out
with every thing kicked out of C++ it becomes better
 
Kind of depends on what you kick out, doesn't it? :p
 
@jalf frankly, not that much
for whatever thing they kick they have to provide superior alternative
they're not kicking out things "just because", export being the real only example
 
Ah, well, that was an unstated assumption :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit because i used "bag" without knowing that it is the correct word, so i assumed it is the wrong word — Marco Dinatsoli 3 hours ago
 
Ell
I OD'd on alcohol
 
10:15 AM
@Ell wha
 
Ell
Please kill me
 
oi come on mate how could you
you know it's poison
 
@Ell Did you get puppy slaughtered too?
 
I haven't drank alcohol since my sickness actually
 
Ell
I drank two bottles yestetda
 
10:16 AM
of what
 
Ell
Pinot grigio
 
C++11 templates vs FFTW: 1-0.
Kind of.
For radix-2 transforms up to a maximum precompiled length.
(I did not invent the code)
 
25cl bottles?
 
@Ell I'm normally OK-ish after a couple bottles of wine, as long as it's with a meal. I can't drive, but walking, using phone and ordering yet more wine are still possible:)
 
10:21 AM
@BartekBanachewicz After two bottles of Pinot, I can't do that either.
 
I need a heterogenous list :/
 
@BartekBanachewicz Use a vector of base-class point.... never mind.
 
@BartekBanachewicz std::list<void*>
 
@rubenvb Do I look like I'm writing C++ to you
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok, then HeterogenerousListThing myList.
Note the intended typo.
 
10:25 AM
Prelude> let t = Just 5
Prelude> fmap show t
Just "5"
derp
@rubenvb eh I'll just slap Maybe there.
 
Maybe Just CallMe
 
That doesn't sound like you need a heterogeneous list.
 
@Ell I had quite little yet I'm still hung over
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's why I used Maybe
 
bloody ageing
 
10:27 AM
showMaybe :: Maybe a -> String
showMaybe (Just x) = show x
showMaybe Nothing = ""
or maybe it is
hm I don't think so
aaand forgot a type constraint
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz showMaybe = maybe show ""
 
I always forget about maybe
 
Is there an equivalent of JSON where keys can be tables or objects
 
eh I'll leave it as it is
it's readable, fuck that one more line
 
Can someone point me to a definition of the different kinds of types (value types, reference types...)? I'm struggling to find any doc
 
10:30 AM
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Lua tables?
 
Yeah like Lua tables
 
well Lua is used as an interchange/data format
we use it for our config files where we need more flexibility
 
Ugh code as config is crap
 
@BartekBanachewicz orly
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't see the problem really
 
10:32 AM
I'm moving some files from CSV to something more readable
 
The problem is with programmatic access
 
you just read the predefined keys
 
Try modifying it from outside, in something that's not the target language
And in a way that's 100% correct no matter the contents of the file
 
I am not sure I understand it
you mean procedurally edit/generate?
 
1 min ago, by A Most Majestuous Capybara
I'm moving some files from CSV to something more readable
also stop arguing
 
10:34 AM
Well I was mostly thinking about human writes -> computer reads, not computer writes -> computer reads
 
wow you are implying humans can't read????? racist
 
All those fancy EDSL configs are an incredible pain for interop and integration
 
I'll just go with boost::property_tree thx guise
 
10:51 AM
ffs. I promised my Mum to post her a USB stick with Better Call Saul's first two episodes on it, once I got home (to my broadband that is not 1MBit), after I verified that Usenet was shock full of choice in that regard. now I'm here all the bloody files have been taken down
 
what the actual fuck
you can't prebind uniforms in vertex shaders?
what kind of fucked up limitation is that
@R.MartinhoFernandes you were right, anyway
Separate Shader Objects introduced linking-by-binding
 
lol usenet
You dinosaur
 
find me something, anything that works as well
hint: you can't
lol breathing air
You dinosaur
^ old !== bad
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's a very refreshing form of near-entitlement o.O
@AMostMajestuousCapybara erm. property_crap is nearly never the answer (although your use case may /just/ be the exception...)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit s/shock/chock/
 
11:01 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah typo :(
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara did you mean values? (instead of keys?)
 
I like how Java's documentation for using the webservice import tool from Ant contains the leaf path node wsimportant
 
@sehe No no, keys!
@sehe Ya, it's not very good, but I already have a dependency on boost and CBA finding an actual json library (I'm open to suggestions)
 
lol - trying to time one 'ADD EAX, EBX' with C function calls:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28475427/program-to-find-execution-time-of-addition-in-c
 
-1
A: program to find execution time of addition in c

VagishYou can try increment the number of digits after decimal points like this printf("\nExecution Time= %.10f \n",exectime);

lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah - some of the answers are more lol than the question.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Let's find out, star this!
 
> I have also tried converting in nanoseconds,but still not working.
good job
he probably divided the "result" by 1000000
 
11:21 AM
This actually helped on my machine,the difference I kept is 1 and CLOCKS_PER_SEC is 2000000. — Vagish 6 mins ago
 
@MartinJames the question itself has two upvotes and no downvotes. what.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It was so funny that I forgot to vote:)
 
This is like trying to microwave a curry readymeal using a galactic core, or a binary pulsar system. — Lightness Races in Orbit 19 secs ago
@SouravGhosh I agree with you Sir. But it's not solving the problem. — Rachna Shriwas 21 mins ago
i need to stop reading this now
@R.MartinhoFernandes that statement about program abstractions is going to go over the head of not only the OP but also 90% of the SO population. I appreciated it though
 
Aaaaa why does MSDN docs and KB pages suddenly keep pestering me to login
 
because ~privileges~
They want to know your coding habits to sponsor you better tailored error resolution KBs.
Soon enough you'll receive "Have you checked out KB56216? <inspired by your recent history>"
And then I don't know
 
11:29 AM
"This guy read KB2471 and you won't believe what happened next!"
 
Fuck KB's. My box rebooted overnight and I had to open everything again.
 
"Nevermind Ukraine, let's have a tango"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit are you sure you read the answer right? punctuation and everything??? It says to use gettimeofday() and not clock() because the granularity is not good enough in the case of time(). I see nothing wrong with that — Pandrei 7 mins ago
o0h bejesus
 
Time is too complicated.
 
i wonder how many billions of developers out there are producing software that doesn't take into account the fact that "time" is not some universal measure for all situations
"what time are you measuring?" "what? TIME, sir!!"
 
11:34 AM
@Lightness gettimeofday can't even be used to measure elapsed wall time.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It tastes like slightly over zesty strawberries
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes quite
but I wanted to focus on the big picture problem. he needs to know that wall time isn't right for this
you've handled the intricacies with him
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Also, fuck daylight-saving-time changes.
 
toMatrix :: Transformation -> Mat3
toMatrix (Transformation p r s) = rotationToMatrix r .*. positionToMatrix p .*. scaleToMatrix s
okey
now how do I compose arbitrary pipeline parameters
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes (clock_gettime with CLOCK_MONOTONIC is the only decent way to measure wall time)
 
11:41 AM
CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW might be better
 
noo
ok it's stable, but totally undisciplined and therefore meaningless for any serious application
 
It's CLOCK_MONOTONIC but ignores NTP adjustments
 
@MartinJames gettimeofday returns time elapsed since an epoch so it's immune to DST issues. It fails because it provides a view of time that can have discontinuous jumps both forward and backward (clock adjustments, either manual or automatic with NTP).
 
yes I know
it is an undisciplined clock tied only to the local oscillator without steering
which is why you don't want to use it
unless you have a Rb on board
 
Sounds like it neds a good beating.
 
11:44 AM
or a caesium CSAC
the behaviour of any cheaper oscillator in holdover is going to be shite
source: my job. time synchronisation in telecom networks
 
11:56 AM
Hmm.
Nevermind.
 
hm?
I was replying to cat btw
 
Ell
What is best hangover foodM
 
just about to find that out myself
 
I was wondering how nonius would deal with a case where every execution takes 0 or 1 tick. Kinda forgot I took measures to make sure that doesn't happen.
 
having to go out grocery shopping when hungover is not good
bbiab
 
11:59 AM
@Ell fry up
 

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