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12:00 PM
I like clean answers. Especially when they delete any trace of your good will.
 
user1804599
Wee 400% CPU usage.
 
:D
 
In ogonek I defined a frozen core ABI under extern "C" and built the rest as header-only on top.
 
I once ate a red snapper.
 
I think that's the only sane way to do it without resorting to pimpls and so on.
@AndyProwl Yeah. Incidentally, that is one of the things the modules proposal is trying to tackle.
 
12:02 PM
But in C the same problem exists doesn't it? If you change the layout of a structure the compatibility is broken
(although I do realize than in C every member is public)
 
Yeah. In C you do information hiding with opaque pointers.
 
yeah, I feel that the core problem here isn't that the C++ ABI isn't specified, but that it's needed at all, beyond some stuff like exceptions.
 
So a C++ ABI would not allow me (for example) to link a library built with one compiler into an executable built with another compiler?
 
@AndyProwl You could do that if they follow the same ABI. (See also COM)
 
@AndyProwl That is exactly what an ABI does.
 
12:05 PM
that's the whole point
 
if you build libstdc++ with GCC you can still link to it and use it with Clang, for example.
 
But you're still forced to the same old tricks when you're writing a library.
 
I need to start pimpling my code. Too many ABI breakages lately.
 
Unless you want to break your library's ABI every update.
FWIW, C++ already has the features for mixing different compiler ABIs.
extern "Itanium" and extern "MSVC" would be cool.
 
Wide can do that, although I have not gotten around to it yet
 
12:09 PM
extern "Java"
 
the real problem with mixing different compiler ABIs would be all the hilarity that comes from different stdlib implementations
 
@Jefffrey re Griwes
0
Q: Allow me to flag a comment as obsolete after previously upvoting it

Lightness Races in OrbitThere was a comment thread started up to resolve a content dispute on an answer. I upvoted one of the comments in that thread, as did several others, to show support. Once the dispute was over, people started cleaning up their comments; however the comment I'd upvoted was written by someone who ...

and I just noticed Griwes is fucking here
lol
still a good
@Griwes: wanna kill this now?
 
@DeadMG That's what I thought. Guess I misunderstood robot's points
 
I would want the linkers and loaders invoke frontends to generate glue code when they see cross-ABI boundaries, though.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sure, done.
 
@DeadMG Yep. Same issue I was talking about above: the language ABI may be uniform but who cares? Any library's ABI is going to vary more than the API.
 
12:10 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Gz.
 
Sounded to me like the conversation went "C++ ABI is not useful why is Herb seeing any problem with that"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmmm, that's not necessarily true.
 
griwes.tar.gz
 
@DeadMG Well, it's not true if you're very careful.
You can't just use the language normally.
 
I agree.
 
12:11 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit
 
\o/
I agree, also. @DeadMG can't just use the language normally.
 
lol
 
Clean like a baby's ass Nevermind. That's an italian thing.
 
@AndyProwl My opinion is that the language is just not amenable to having such a thing in a very useful way.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok I understand what you're saying
 
12:12 PM
You'll always have a distinction between "normal C++" and "exposable C++".
 
well, for Wide, I could implement automatic PIMPLing.
and I've got a few other tricks up my sleeves planned for that already.
 
write your CV
now
 
I've been staring at it for the last three hours
I'm on a lunch break.
 
you're on a lounge break
 
user1804599
Dammit.
 
12:13 PM
potato potahto :P
 
user1804599
> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.7.3/include/g++-v4/cstdio:121:11: error: no member named 'gets' in the global namespace
 
No IPA. Am disappoint.
 
@rightfold Welcome to C++1y.
There are about two fixes for that.
 
May 6 '13 at 17:37, by R. Martinho Fernandes
/pəˈteɪtoʊ/ /pəˈtatoʊ/
 
1) Don't use -std=c++1y.
 
12:14 PM
@rightfold std::gets
 
2) Manually delete the using ::gets; line.
 
user1804599
Wait, I know.
 
oh wait what
omg rly
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit gets was nuked, I guess.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's in libstdc++'s <cstdio>.
 
12:15 PM
C11 killed it.
 
@Griwes that's so gay
 
They are still behind.
 
user1804599
% cat main.cpp
void gets();
#include <iostream>
 
user1804599
:)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes true
 
12:15 PM
They fail hard with -std=c++1y.
@rightfold FFFFFFUUUUUU
 
what are you guys talking about?
 
user1804599
Wooohoooo it works.
 
good on them removing that, actually
 
wait what
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, just the header is horribad. :P
 
12:16 PM
poor Jefffrey's all in a fluster
 
> std::gets was deprecated in C++11 and removed from C++14.
 
@Jefffrey gets is not usable, so it was removed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's totally usable. It's usable for too much, in fact.
 
12:16 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, unless you're in C++14. Then it's not usable, because it doesn't exist.
 
user1804599
Beh, boost::thread_group::add_thread takes a pointer. :c
 
Well, as long as it's coherent with the corresponding C library (stdio.h)
 
thread_group is broken anyway
 
user1804599
Why?
 
12:17 PM
threads don't get removed from it when they finish
 
@rightfold Well, otherwise it'd pretty much need move semantics.
@Jefffrey Only libstdc++ has horribly broken ifdef checking for gets. Or had, maybe they managed to fix it in some bleeding edge version.
 
@Jefffrey Yes. It was removed in C11.
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit not an issue in my case.
 
user1804599
I have exactly N running threads for about the lifetime of my program.
 
I've noticed.
 
12:19 PM
@Griwes "bleeding" is appropriate
@rightfold ok
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit :D
 
Dear Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler, "conversion from 'int' to 'float', possible loss of data" when the value is a literal 0 is not an acceptable warning. Go fuck yourself.
 
Ven
just 0f it
 
yeah cos that makes everything better
fuck 0f
 
12:26 PM
fuck 0ff
 
@Ven Doesn't make the warning any more acceptable, though.
 
I should introduce more warnings in Wide.
I can warn on self-assignment now, yay me.
 
user1804599
Beh warnings.
 
warning: you're wasting time that should be spent on beginning a career
 
alright.
> I have created my own language. I identified a gap in the market where new tools were not addressing business needs by incompatibility with existing tools, codebases and technical personnel. I subsequently designed and implemented a tool that met these requirements by allowing migration without losing these existing assets.
better?
 
12:33 PM
I don't know what that means.
 
there was a problem with C++ compatibility, I solved it.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Wow, good job on the marketing technobabble.
@DeadMG For very small definitions of "solved"
 
well, it's a one-man effort in his spare time whilst he wasn't crying over a bucket about crippling stomach pain
 
Well, it's not past, is it?
 
hm.
 
ah you're right
 
@DeadMG that's.... buzzwords. you did the opposite of what I suggested. :(
though it is still better
 
hence when I said that I didn't actually understand your suggestion, it would be problematic.
I guess I just don't speak business-ese
 
I gave you a quote. I literally wrote it out for oyu.
I said not to speak business-ese. Multiple times
jesus h christ
 
I don't understand the difference.
 
12:38 PM
i know
for the record, what you wrote is excellent businessese
but i'd probably turn to the next CV cos of that
 
hm
 
Let's try something else. Picture a really shitty SO answer written by someone from some country somewhere ahem with no punctuation or grammar, that has the bare minimum detail, doesn't explain why the OP should use his code.... then picture a sehe, or Robot, or LRiO answer. That's your difference.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Explains why I didn't understand it.
Nonononononononononononononono
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
 
I got this compiling last month! You can't start ICEing on it now that something else changed.
nonononononononono
NOOO
 
12:43 PM
lol
it appears that it can in fact start ICEing.
 
cries in a corner
 
throws nullptrs at @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Better continue thinking about autological, heterological, paralogical and co-autological words
 
0
Q: Last Element gets Duplicated When reading from File

Shehan.WI have created a program which reads records from a file and then output it to the screen. My problem is the last record gets printed twice. Here is my code :- Code implementation void FileHandler<Administrator>::readFromFileAdministrator(){ Administrator admin; //created an admin...

 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I guess that here, I can't see the question. I don't know what the reader is looking for. Does he want to know that I don't use new[] everywhere? Does he want to know that I wrote code that deals with several levels of indirection and three different execution phases simultaneously?
 
12:45 PM
people upvote the "possible duplicate of"-comment, but don't cast any close votes? what's up with that..
 
@FilipRoséen-refp Hammered.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wicked.
 
@DeadMG -.-
ok let's not try that then
tell me in two or three sentences, right now, that you created Wide and do so in a way that makes me think you know what you're doing rather than just slapping some syntax together and compiling it in ActionScript
 
It's possible to compare to instances of an enum class right? (eg. enumInstance1 == enumInstance2)
 
@HalfEvil two*
try it and see?
 
12:51 PM
Haha sorry wont happen again :/
 
you'll be out the door on your butt if it does
 
Tried it in my program and it doesn't work, but not sure if it depends on the enums or some other mistake that I've made...
 
I like how Facebook now has a "Make News Feed better" option on the news feed items dropdown menu
@HalfEvil time for an SO question
 
Does time(0) not work on coliru? I always get the same results...
 
Yeah I guess so ;)
 
12:53 PM
@HalfEvil Try it in a simple program without confounding factors.
@FredOverflow Caching.
Scheiß Arbeit!, lol
 
well, it compiles to native code (as opposed to some VM thing), I implemented relatively complex features like complex types (i.e. user-defined copy constructors/destructors), RAII and virtual functions, it includes interfacing to C++ (e.g. ABI fun, ADL/OR etc), and it also includes support for tooling out of the box, I have a VS addin.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Server-side or client-side?
 
Hah, Diese ganze Fickscheißarbeit
@FredOverflow Server.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, so it should produce different results if I fork it? :)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh noez, now he's cussing in German!
 
user1804599
12:54 PM
@FredOverflow change the code a little and the result will be different.
 
@Xeo Quoting from Fred's program.
 
Xeo
oh, ok
 
Also, rand(). Shame on you.
 
feeling rand()y?
 
rand() is good enough for rants.
 
12:55 PM
rant()
 
Feeling "fuck you VS".
3
 
I'm rand().
 
@DeadMG Long sentence, comma abuse, "some VM thing"??? And you don't actually mention what it is that you are talking about. Pretend I've never heard of Wide, or had any knowledge that you were making it.
getting there tho
 
ok
 
You want to point out not just what features it has but also that you used your brain whilst creating it
you'd be amazed how few people do
show that you apply diligence and attention to detail
e.g. mention your tests
 
12:58 PM
I compiled to native code, which is a substantially more complex abstraction than existing virtual machines, in order to gain high performance and compatibility with existing native code and native code tools such as linkers and optimizers.
how's that for a starter.
 
Okay so it did work to compare two instances of an enum class, I've made some other mistake :|
 
@DeadMG that's a good sentence. it should be part of a wider paragraph though - i'm trying to get you to draft the whole Wide section here
 
yeah, I'm just thinking about what I'm gonna put next.
 
still crying in a corner
 
kk
well, while you're doing that, I'm gonna go put a pizza in the oven and take over the world
 
1:01 PM
oakydoaky.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Seizing the opportunity now that I'm vulnerable?
 
Xeo
He'll make g++ a synonym for cl on your box.
 
Is there an option in VS that puts a debug stop (red dot) to every single one of my own lines?
10
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure!
@HalfEvil Just run it, from the sounds of it
 
@HalfEvil Did you try "Step Over" and "Step Into"?
 
1:03 PM
the real answer is you don't. set ONE breakpoint then step through the next lines
and pray that you're using an old version of VS
 
Invoke hammertime
 
> When you are debugging an application with the VS debugger, your application is either running (executing) or it is in break mode.
Either your application is running, or the VS debugger is in break mode. Breaking everything.
 
The two are not exclusive.
 
Thought they'd shipped it in "break mode" tbh
@R.MartinhoFernandes sluts
hammertime #teamfearne
 
1:10 PM
Okay so I was able to debug every single line, but guess what, when the debuger comes to the line that "doesn't work" it just jumps right over it?!
 
Xeo
stale executable / wrong file
 
It seems like the if statement is never excecuted...
 
Release build?
 
Nope
 
1:10 PM
you can't break on conditionals, can you?
only inside them
 
Xeo
Sure you can
 
Thing is the if SHOULD return true, so the code in the if should be executed too. But it just jumps over it...
 
Xeo
2 mins ago, by Xeo
stale executable / wrong file
 
My money is on wrong debugger.
 
Xeo
1:13 PM
lol
 
I've tried to rebuild it like 10 times now
no change :(
It's in moments like this I just want to sit in a corner and cry :|
 
13 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
still crying in a corner
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit good jorb
 
> I implemented interfacing to C++ for easier migration for existing developers and codebases. C++ has a complex interface, both binary and at compiler execution time, that no other tools outside that ecosystem can use.
 
@ÓlafurWaage tharnks
 
1:15 PM
@DeadMG s/compiler execution/compilation/?
 
@Maxpm What's wrong with posting D links here? Are you implying this room is about C++?
 
you're such a D bag
 
@Rapptz It starts in less than three hours, and I didn't want people to miss the keynote.
 
@Griwes Probably right.
 
"heterological" is co-autological with "hexasyllabic".
 
1:17 PM
seriously?
 
(Better than VS)
 
do language professors just come up with this shit for fun
 
I do.
Is "heterological" is co-autological with "autological"?
 
Xeo
No?
 
@rightfold Scott Meyers will give a talk at DConf tomorrow morning :)
 
user1804599
1:19 PM
@FredOverflow nice :3
 
Xeo
heterological is words that don't describe themselves, so how could it describe autological?
 
@Xeo If it did, it wouldn't describe itself, would it?
 
@FredOverflow The last think D needs is a working compiler
 
@DeadMG of course they do; what else are they supposed to do for fun?!
 
1:20 PM
this game had some beautiful music
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes co-autological is words that describe each other, right?
 
@FredOverflow lol that question :0
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion No, that's the first thing it needs. :P
 
Xeo
And heterological / autological don't describe ich other. Or are we running into the paradox again here?
 
@sehe What about it? Maybe it always returns the same result for security reasons or whatnot.
 
1:22 PM
@Xeo If I say "autological" is heterological it is heterological. If I say "autological" is autological, it is autological. So "heterological" can describe "autological".
 
@FredOverflow Maybe. Yep.
 
(Comma asymmetry is intentional)
 
2 hours ago, by Griwes
http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/262g4v/til_there_was_a_court_case‌​_named_united_states_v/
 
user1804599
Go Playground always returns the date of the first release of Go when you ask for the current date.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes But "heterological" can never describe "autological", and co-autological needs the description bidirectional, no?
 
1:23 PM
Xeo got caught in robot's vortex of madness
 
My brain hurts from all these words
 
I have to admit I am now struggling with it.
 
Xeo
Oi, don't just edit the conclusion!
 
@Xeo Now it actually follows from the premises.
 
@Griwes oh you were faster than me
 
1:24 PM
@tomalakgeretkal single-step in "Just-my-own-code" (perhaps it would be smart enough with includes marked as system headers (?))
lolwut
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can't be, because we can't classify "heterological"
 
True, it's paralogical :(
Fuck, I'm even getting quasiquotes wrong now.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit haha
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's pathological.
 
@sehe no such thing in non-managed code.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait. what. what's that in reply to?
 
1:27 PM
Tomalak's tweet onebox.
Not even such a thing as marking "system headers".
Stop assuming VC++ has useful features.
 
I'm not assuming. I'm following the marketing speak. Besides, I'm using VC++ (some of the time)
 
user1804599
I love linked lists.
 
std::vector 0 0 0 1
std::list 0 0 1 2
std::deque 0 0 0 1
Great timings.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Wide. I do that shit for fun.
 
1:34 PM
@rightfold why
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dat accuracy, and all probably in L1 cache
 
What a waste of space.
 
it's blue.
 
it's a waste.
 
Xeo
1:35 PM
@FredOverflow ahahaha, he iterated through the list for random insert / delete?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes TWO MILLISECONDS
 
Zero is better.
 
@Xeo How else do you get to a random point inside a list?
 
You don't, because that's missing the fucking point
 
Random access is overrated.
 
1:37 PM
Also, iteration is probably the most important operation on a collection. Think about it: Why would you insert elements into a collection if you're never going to do anything with them?
Iteration on linked lists is slow, hence linked lists suck.
 
Object * o = new Object(i, i, i);
hahahahaha
Well done
 
lol
 
personally
I mostly use std::list when I'm like, "Fuck iterator invalidation".
right, after finishing my job as Family Tech Support
time to return to launching my career
 
Xeo
argh, I'm going crazy. I don't know where to properly insert this little feature into the server code.
 
1:40 PM
I've often used vector when in the back of my head i've thought "I should use a list or something else for this but i'm too lazy to figure it out". But after reading this i'm like "Of course i was right all along"
 
@Xeo Think about self-referentialism in words instead.
I need a fancier name for this science.
 
Wordmauturgy
 
@FredOverflow Not the point. Benchmarking search times on a std::list and labelling it as insertion times is wrong.
 
You know what he needs? Averages. Yeah.
 
fuck yeah refactoring
I love refactoring
 
1:44 PM
@DeadMG that (although other node-based containers have pretty decent invalidation rules too (set,map)). list has additional superpowers in the area of splicing sublists between lists of the same element type
 
Xeo
set/map might get that in the future
 
yeah, but set/map aren't simple sequences, they're associative and that's often not what I need.
@Xeo I doubt it.
I was at the meeting where the proposal was discussed and it was deemed unfeasible because there's some implementations that are not node-based, and LWG weren't too happy at the prospect of breaking existing implementations.
 
@DeadMG I hear you. I was simply adding a bit of perspective to "fuck iterator invalidation" line of reasoning
 
fair enough.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG How would you implement it without some kind of node?
 
1:46 PM
dunno, I didn't ask and I don't exactly remember what he said when somebody asked that.
I was busy wishing I was in LEWG instead.
there was also a proposal to move a node out of a set/map, and it was smacked for similar reasons.
 
Wondering if I can come up with with a co-autological ring.
 
gonna give it to your girlfriend?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Please don't.
 
git bisect is still running, so yes, I will.
 
@Xeo Who is that coworker?
 
1:52 PM
dem flags
lol
 
user1804599
> extrawurst.org
 
user1804599
lol
 
> I also implemented a proof-of-concept Visual Studio add-in to provide tooling support. C++ tooling is traditionally of low quality and tooling is often a sticking point for the introduction of new languages, so I wanted to show that both my language and implementation were feasible in this regard.
 
> Meeting C++ 2014 is at the 5th and 6th December in Berlin!
Oh, neat.
Also, meh, fuck it.
 
user1804599
1:56 PM
Komt Sinterklaas ook?
 
@rightfold Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook!
 
I'm quite full of C++ lately. Thank MSVC.
 
user1804599
Puppy the Professional Ook! Programmer
 
indeed.
fuck Wide, time to write more code in Ook!
 
user1804599
Swap C++ interop for Ook! interop in Wide.
 
1:58 PM
eh
why bother swapping?
let's face it: if you can express it at the LLVM level, then Wide's probably gonna be compatible with it if you want, and quite possibly as a compiler extension/plugin rather than core functionality.
that's just how the compiler had to be designed.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm
 
user1804599
But I want ook("foo") like cpp("foo") :v
 

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