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8:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Same story as antibiotics and artesiminin.
powerful chemical used to control negative organism; used recklessly and without proper control; organism develops resistance.
 
qwr
I'm not expert but I thought I'd say that's why many antibiotics disrupt vital parts of bacteria like cell walls
 
doesn't matter what mode of action they have.
disrupting something vital just means you kill the cell.
 
qwr
it is very difficult to change cell wall setup for bacteria
 
what matters is how easy it is to evolve resistance- what genetic changes are necessary and if resistance becomes an uber evolutionary advantage.
@qwr Tell that to the antibiotic resistant bacteria
 
qwr
I believe bacteria are not the main concern
 
8:09 PM
fact is, pretty much all of our antibiotics are becoming less effective
and some bacterial strains becoming resistant to more than one simultaneously
 
@DeadMG Not guns.
 
qwr
lots of money has been poured into antiviral things and autoimmune diseases
 
eh
bacteria aren't the main concern only as long as our antibiotic arsenal remains stocked.
if we run out of effective antibiotics, we're back to square one when it comes to dealing with infectious and contagious bacterial infections, which would be very, very bad.
 
qwr
I think it's misleading to say back to square one
new bacteria are constantly being evaluated for possible treatments that could be used if necessary
 
name one treatment that can cure tuberculosis that isn't an antibiotic
 
qwr
8:11 PM
it's like your purposely trying to start a debate
 
I'm not trying to start a debate because it appears that you have no argument.
 
qwr
^
 
as near as I can determine, antibiotic resistance is a critical problem because we depend on them almost entirely to control bacterial infections and they're all becoming worthless.
 
qwr
your question is deceptive, since technically anything that fights bacteria is an antibiotic
by definition everything that fights TB is antibiotic
 
and we don't possess anything that effectively fights TB except certain drugs.
 
qwr
8:14 PM
well the certain drugs are effective
 
not for much longer.
hence the problem.
 
qwr
how do you know
 
@qwr It takes two to tango.
 
qwr
?
as for "we don't possess anything that effectively fights except certain drugs" you're implying there's some alternative: what alternative would you rather have?
 
no, the whole problem is that we don't have an alternative.
as in, when the drugs fail, we get fucked by infectious diseases running out of control.
 
qwr
8:15 PM
we have plenty of variants of antibacterials
 
and the bacteria are happily becoming resistant to several of them simultaneously.
 
qwr
okay
?
 
and by that I mean
there are documented cases of soldiers coming out of Iraq infected with TB that died because they couldn't find any effective antibiotics.
and the cultured infection demonstrated clear resistance to pretty much all of our most powerful drugs.
 
top gear in a nutshell :D
 
qwr
I don't watch top gear, from what I've heard it's a bunch of people with expensive cars
 
user1804599
8:20 PM
Bottom Gear.
 
and malaria in particular is now nearly beating artemisinin, our last remaining powerful antimalarial.
 
qwr
well DeadMG, I cannot deny what you're saying, I'm curious to what you propose?
 
well
firstly, we need to impose far stricter controls on the use of any future pesticides/antibiotics/antimalarials and such drugs.
 
Chrome. I think it is being blocked. Now I feel retarded. Checked in Firefox and is working — turtleSack 2 hours ago
 
their misuse is a good chunk of what causes the problematic organisms to become resistant.
 
qwr
8:21 PM
we, as in the world, or the meat industry, or ... ?
 
everybody, pretty much.
 
@qwr It's a comedy program
 
qwr
really?
 
for example, lots of antibiotic resistant pathogens evolved in farm animals when developed farmers fed all their livestock antibiotics to boost growth, or when the antibiotics factories in India dumped waste into the river so that the whole thing was flooded with them
 
qwr
8:22 PM
the only other thing I've heard was that they don't give chairs to their audience.
 
@qwr they drive cars sometimes, but they don't own them
 
and artesiminin-resistant malaria comes from Cambodia, where the people don't properly complete the treatment.
 
@qwr lol, indeed
 
qwr
I'm not sure how that's relevant
I guess they spend a lot of money
 
but the audience is marginal
and my troll-o-meter just went up
abandoning ship
 
8:23 PM
secondly, it's quite necessary to substantially boost the funding for searching for new drugs, as our existing ones have lost their punch.
 
qwr
oooh boosting funding is hard
 
and we need to boost the use of non-drug control measures like improved sanitation and quarantine.
 
qwr
who wants to pay for it though
 
people who don't want to die of tuberculosis.
I'm gonna suggest that's quite a few.
 
qwr
convincing taxpayers is a very difficult thing
an education program maybe?
 
8:25 PM
eh
by the time any education program has been instituted, paid for, and been around long enough to have any effect, it'll be too late.
 
qwr
I don't think there's a lack of grad students studying drugs
lol
 
pity that it takes the average antibiotic 20-30 years to go from being discovered to being applicable.
 
@qwr They don't buy new million-pound cars every week. The manufacturers let them borrow the vehicles, just as they would for any review media...
 
and since we have practically none in the pipeline right now
 
qwr
20-30 is not a problem IMO
 
8:28 PM
Not if you are in perfect health, no.
 
qwr
the drug development process is pretty long
 
You're missing the point entirely.
 
@qwr Evolutionary process isn't.
not for antibiotic resistance in the current climate, anyway.
 
qwr
for FDA approval there needs to be lots of research
>10 years of clinical trials
 
which is why it takes so long and most antibiotics are derived from naturally-occurring compounds anyway
 
8:29 PM
Here we go; USA-centric arguments
 
but we already looked at all of the most readily available sources of natural antibiotics and derived antibiotics from them
plants, animals, bacteria in the soil, etc.
so it's gonna be much harder to find new ones in the future
 
qwr
hate the US all you want, the majority of drug development occurs in US based companies (?)
 
I honestly believe that this will be the first major problem of many that the technologically-advanced human societies will encounter as they use their technology with utter infantile ignorance
(i.e. I agree with you)
 
I'm also seeing parallels with global warming and climate change here.
 
@qwr: That I hate the US has nothing to do with it; my problem right now is that you jumped into "FDA" assuming that everybody you're talking to is an American, or that "FDA" is a household name for everybody, because America rules the world, right? Wrong
 
qwr
8:30 PM
"utter infantile ignorance" someone's not having a good day
 
I mean, there's no question that our climate was changing a little with or without our intervention, but we've made it much worse with our reckless overreliance on fossil fuels.
 
@qwr I've had a great day, thanks!
That the human race habitually makes stupid decisions is not relevant to my day
 
qwr
the reason I used FDA is I know more about it than asia/europe drug agencies and they are one of the largest regulatory agencies
 
Then say "FDA in the US" or "American FDA"
 
qwr
8:31 PM
no, there's only one FDA
 
We are not second-class citizens
@qwr There are 12 FDAs on Wikipedia's main page alone: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDA_(disambiguation)
 
qwr
it's the FDA. in other countries they go by other names
 
of course, we could always be using nice safe liquid thorium nuclear reactors for energy generation right now
 
Your US-centric arrogance strikes again
 
but you can't use the waste to build bombs
so nobody looked into it after the Second World War.
 
qwr
8:32 PM
all other FDAs are mostly irrelevant
 
Only if you're an arrogant American
 
qwr
ex. florida dental assiciation,
you can't even troll properly
 
Actually, I'm very fucking good at it.
 
Xeo
Not every body knows what FDA is even supposed to stand for
 
Bloody Yanks
go invade someone!
 
qwr
8:34 PM
FDA is a pretty well known organization in the industry
 
@Zack I am sorry. it seems you are right, — Vlad from Moscow yesterday
FFS Vlad stop being so nice
@qwr Again missing my point. Sigh Oh well. Perhaps one day you'll come to understand.
 
qwr
but what I say applies to European, china, japan regulation
 
@PMF Please next time do not comment my answers. If you know the right direction then simply describe it in your own answer. — Vlad from Moscow Mar 23 at 21:54
Ah, I can work with this!
 
qwr
clinical trials have to take 10 or so years for development to study effects over time
 
25
A: Can a piece of A4 paper be folded such that it's thick enough to reach the moon?

Ross MillikanThe statement is true in two different senses. As Sabyasachi shows, the intended sense that $2^{42}$ times the thickness of a sheet of paper is greater than the distance to the moon is correct. In the spirit of achille hui's comment, the sentence is an implication with a false antecendent, so i...

<3 (onebox misses out the best bit)
 
qwr
8:38 PM
ah math se
I don't usually come on stack overflow I spend most of my time there
 
hi
 
qwr
hi
so uh the real reason I came on here was to ask a c++ question
 
I should have guessed.
 
qwr
is an ordered_set similar to a list but with only one of each element?
 
qwr
8:42 PM
oops I meant set, not ordered_set
 
@qwr why would you compare a sequential container with an associative one?
 
Xeo
actually, yes. it's kind of a list
 
why would you ask here and not on a site that encourages questions
 
qwr
I'm confused because there's a set and there's an unordered_set
 
yes because the elements in set are ordered
 
qwr
8:44 PM
I had always believed that all sets were unordered
 
when you iterate over the set, the iteration is in the defined order.
 
Xeo
one is node-based, ordered and the other is hash-based, unordered
 
when you iterate over the unordered set, the elements are produced in an arbitrary order.
 
qwr
hmmmm
so an ordered set is not really a set at all
 
user1804599
What?
 
8:45 PM
yes it is
 
qwr
because a set is just a collection?
 
Xeo
not really in the mathematical sense, I guess
 
user1804599
A set is a collection of unique elements.
 
user1804599
That’s pretty much all there is to it.
 
@qwr how did you come to that conclusion?
 
8:46 PM
@ScarletAmaranth his question would be closed immediately on SO
 
@Xeo says who?
 
Xeo
AFAIK, a set in math has no inherent order.
 
@qwr In a sense, yes. Both are containers; both contain objects; lists may contain duplicates whereas sets do not. In terms of "theory" they differ in more ways than that, as they do in terms of implementation, and in mathematics. But if you're just looking at it at the basic "what can I do with this?" level, then, yes.
 
Cases where you use std::list:
 
the only restriction a mathematical set has is that it has to have only unique elements
doesn't matter whether it's sorted or not
I'm tired
 
8:48 PM
go nap
 
It is impossible to sort a set in mathematics, since there is no property of ordering defined on a set's elements.
 
Xeo
@ScarletAmaranth I assume there's an actual list coming, otherwise you're wrong :P
 
@Xeo im pretty sure there isnt
 
@Xeo nah, you rarely ever want to actually use it, even if asymptotic behaviour tells you otherwise
 
Xeo
8:50 PM
I'm talking about guarantees
 
Guarantee of linked lists: will make students rush to SO every semester when they fail miserably to implement one
10
 
@Borgleader noo
 
why do I always have trouble with cppreference.com's CSS? wtf crazy magicks are they doing -.-
 
qwr
isn't that the purpose of SO
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit a mathematical set doesn't care about the order. Thus an ordered set can still be a mathematical set.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Like what?
 
Sam
8:54 PM
noob question, why when i try to include pthreads i get an error of "no such file or directory" for #include <sched.h>, c++ use relative paths? how do you usually include an external util?
 
@ScarletAmaranth I usually use it when having super resistance to erasure/etc is nice.
 
@Sam pass -I"directory" to the compiler flags
 
Is this correct?
2
A: Looser Throw Specifier in C++

Lightness Races in OrbitIn C++03, std::exception has a destructor that is declared such that no exceptions can be thrown out of it (a compilation error will be caused instead). When you derive from such a type, your own destructor must have the same restriction: virtual BadJumbleException::~BadJumbleException() throw(...

 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not really.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No
 
8:56 PM
@Rapptz Absolutely. But that does not mean a mathematical set has ordering as one of its mathematicaly properties. C'mon, "¬((A=>B)=>(B=>A))", man.
@DeadMG Why not?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's what I'm saying
@LightnessRacesinOrbit destructors are noexcept(true) by default
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit All Standard types do not throw on destruction. I believe there's a couple of minority exceptions like maybe std::thread, but certainly not containers exceptions and such.
 
@Rapptz Ah, excellent
@Rapptz Wait, how come his code fails, then?
the error message sounds C++03y to me, too
 
Sam
@Rapptz that means...? where are compiler flags with vc++?
 
@Sam plz use the arrows when replying
 
qwr
8:59 PM
well thank you guys for answering my question
 
@qwr You're welcome, Yank
@DeadMG Is it better now?
 
qwr
plot twist: I live in canada
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit no repro
probably compiling with C++03
 
@Rapptz Did you even read my answer? I already said I think he's compiling as C++03 accidentally.
Therefore, your unknowing conclusion is "yes, the answer is correct"?
@qwr Not really a plot twist
 
when I said "no" I meant the tidbit about noexcept
not your answer overall
also you put nothrow(true) in your answer
 
9:01 PM
ok
oops
final edit :)
I'll take that as a "yeigh". Thanks @Rapptz, @DeadMG.
 
ah yeah
 
Sam
@Rapptz i still get the same error on #include <sched.h>, i include pthreads as #include "pthreads\pthread.h"
 
I'm not actually sure that C++03 had any such rule about throw specs, and even if it did, I'd be surprised if the destructor was actually marked nothrow.
it's probably just a C++11 rule.
which would explain his different projects, different results.
 
tbh I don't know why his code is failing
 
@DeadMG I checked, and it is (18.6.1/5)
because he's compiling as C++03
just the phrase "looser throw specifier" seals it for me; don't think C++11 uses that language at all
 
Sam
9:09 PM
lol actually replace <sched.h> with "sched.h" solved it
 
I'm confident about the situation in C++03; it was the changes in C++11 I wasn't sure about. And since my conclusion that he was lying about compiling as C++11 hinged on those changes... :)
0
Q: lightest image format to be sent into sockets

user3461733I'm trying to get a bitmap image of my computer and to send it continually to the computer that I'm working on. What's the lightest image format that saves quality and transmission speed that I can use to deal this, please?

 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I doubt it does; but MSVC for example still issues compiler errors with, for example, void f(void); which was never C++.
but I honestly don't remember much about throw specs in C++03 so you could be right about those rules.
 
@DeadMG What's wrong with void f(void)?
@DeadMG Pretty sure I am =)
 
C++ never used the f(void) syntax.
it was only C that did that.
 
You could use it in C++ though so it's not like it's wrong
 
9:15 PM
@DeadMG It's never been required, but that doesn't mean "it was never C++"
 
was it, ever?
 
well f(void) doesn't mean anything in C++
while on C it's quite important
 
C++ is not all C, tho some compilers think it is
 
@Jefffrey It does
it means it takes no arguments
it's not like it lost meaning
 
> [C++11: 8.3.5/4]: [..] The parameter list (void) is equivalent to the empty parameter list. [..]
HTH
 
9:17 PM
@Rapptz you didn't understand the point I'm making
 
@Jefffrey It was a bad point
Remember that this conversation is about MSVC spewing compiler errors for this argument list, which is non-compliant
 
it's a bit of a naughty point, but it's not a bad boy
also, it's still alive
 
so there are kind of some pluses and minuses?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you just settled it :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh no, I meant merely that the error described the function in question like that.
 
9:18 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I thought DeadMG meant that the errors use void f(void) in its description?
 
it wasn't that MSVC won't accept void f(void).
 
why does boost mpl has different incompatible integer constants?
i need to learn that today
or otherwise i won't have done anything useful with my life
 
@DeadMG Ahh right okay
@DeadMG Then I take your point
 
9:35 PM
hi internet
 
hi host
 
The whole day, waiting for a lone upvote on many, hard-work high-maintenance questions... Then - come back after a night's rehearsal, and - bam - +85. How does that work
@jalf hi, it's a mirror!
 
that's how it works
a mirrow
you sockpuppeted yourself
and then you did it again by answering your own question just there
 
let's officially record the 96th hour since I took my last crap
 
@Jefffrey duly noted
 
9:42 PM
thanks for sharing
 
> hour 96: @Jeffrey still took no crap
 
@sehe The rep fairy paid you a visit when you least expected it. Be grateful!
 
I don't ever read
 
@Jefffrey until your next crap?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit tl;dr and is that kid crosseyed?
 
@Borgleader he's something
 
@StackedCrooked idgi ? (also i was expecting an actual star =/)
 
@jalf I'm trying to find what's the world record, but I couldn't find anything
but then again, I suck at googling
 
@Borgleader Will do
 
9:47 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit poor little rat
 
@StackedCrooked what is that
@Borgleader only a bit
 
@StackedCrooked i know :(
 
Seriously, with what frequency do you guys take craps?
like 3 shits/week?
 
user1804599
About every 1.16 days.
 
The capybara (Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris) is the largest rodent in the world, followed by the beaver, porcupine, and mara. Its closest relatives are guinea pigs and rock cavies, and it is more distantly related to the agouti, chinchillas, and the coypu. Native to South America, the capybara inhabits savannas and dense forests and lives near bodies of water. It is a highly social species and can be found in groups as large as 100 individuals, but usually lives in groups of 10–20 individuals. The capybara is not a threatened species, though it is hunted for its meat and hide and also for a...
 
9:50 PM
@Jefffrey I'm curious as to why you're curious about this
 
@Borgleader to know if I should worry or not
 
i believe theres some variance depending on your metabolism /cc @Rapptz
 
@Borgleader constipation apparently
 
maybe I'm becoming Kim Jong-Il
 
@Jefffrey aka dead?
 
9:52 PM
some people poop multiple times a day
 
@Borgleader aka he never pooped
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit maybe you're using chrome/chromium? cppreference's CSS exposed a bug in it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Wow. That didn't disappoint twitter.com/sehetw/status/449304066955300864
 
Xeo
Management. RT @lizardbill: What's the term for estimating how long it should take someone else to fix a bug in code you've never seen?
2
lovely
 

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