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user1804599
10:09 AM
Is Eigen good for transformations in 2D space?
 
In Java, an interface is a clean solution to a problem. In C++14, a concept is yet another layer of redundant band-aids to cover the poor choice of multiple-inheritance support and virtual base classes. Look forward to even bigger messes. At least C++11 finally had the good sense to give us final and override. — Jason C 37 secs ago
troll alarm :)
 
@FredOverflow He's has no concept at all. :)
 
10:27 AM
@DeadMG Yes, I know. I deleted my comment. It was too rant-y. Sorry. — Jason C 52 secs ago
 
:)
 
@FredOverflow he has yet to feel the power of parametric polymorphism
 
@ScarletAmaranth I recommend a two-week vacation in Haskell land.
 
I feel terrible
 
@BartekBanachewicz What happened?
 
user1804599
10:38 AM
@FredOverflow s/troll/noob/
 
I bet he has master's in computer science, whatever that's worth nowadays :)
 
user1804599
Java interfaces are terrible.
 
user1804599
“I’m too lazy to properly implement multiple inheritance so I’ll do this crazy useless shit instead.”
 
I don't think they're terrible
 
user1804599
They are too limited for no reason.
 
10:42 AM
there's a good reason for them to be limited, they're supposed to describe behaviour only, vOv
also, I've written quite a bit of C++ and maybe I am just really bad at the language (well, I am sure I am bad at the language, but that aside), I have used multiple inheritance... 0 times
 
user1804599
You rarely need inheritance in C++ because C++ has duck typing through templates.
 
I won't disagree with that
well, duck typing is an unfortunate side effect, concepts will bring salvation
 
user1804599
In a Java-like language you would need something like a Sequence<T> interface to implement a generic Transform<T, U> function.
 
user1804599
And a Function<T, U> interface.
 
I am not sure I know what you mean by Sequence interface
 
10:47 AM
MI rocks
 
user1804599
Something that would have begin and end in C++.
 
ah, I see what you mean
 
user1804599
Like… a sequence.
 
right, right
Java generics suck, yes :)
 
user1804599
In C++ you can just write a template function without any constraints and its correctness will be checked on every instantiation.
 
user1804599
10:48 AM
In Java and C# you have to put constraints on generics if you want to do useful things with them, and they are verified only once. Same in Haskell, but in Haskell you have type classes instead of interfaces, which are more like concepts in C++4089.
 
sure, and you get an oscar wilde novel in case the instantiation fails (gief concepts)
constraining generic types is not a bad idea at all
i'd rather have template <Container c> than template <typename c>
or maybe template <Semi_regular T>
or tempalte <typename T> requires Semi_regular<T>
you get the point
 
user1804599
AFAIK concepts in C++ are only useful for diagnostics and SFINAE. In Java and C# the methods occur actually only once in the binaries, and in C++ once for every instantiation.
 
this way you check against an interface
well
you can also overload on concepts
but you're right
they're not sliced bread
but they sure as hell are nice
I'm off to eat something, laters
 
Xeo
@rightfold generic constraints are limited, unextensible, language-provided type classes, basically
 
user1804599
Multimethods are cool.
 
Xeo
10:53 AM
@rightfold if concepts didn't rely on syntax, but explicit concept_mapping...
 
@Fred I poisoned myself
With alcohol
And loads of it.
 
user1804599
You are a noob who sucks at life.
 
11:13 AM
no u
 
Until I felt the poison it was fun
 
11:26 AM
@ScarletAmaranth I think Java interfaces are fine for a simple language like Java.
 
Hello guys, how are you doing?
 
@rightfold Interfaces are way clearer than multiple inheritance. Bjarne Stroustrup is even envious of James Gosling for inventing interfaces.
 
user1804599
They are crippled classes.
 
user1804599
There is no difference if you use multiple inheritance with base classes that have only abstract methods.
 
> One of the really nice things about Java, probably the one thing I really appreciate, is the fact that they used the keyword interface to describe interfaces, what in C++ are pure abstract classes, and I wish I'd had that idea. It would have made teaching much easier. [...] I think calling a pure abstract class an interface was a stroke of genius. SOURCE
 
11:38 AM
@FredOverflow I completely agree regarding the interface keyword.
 
Fuck interfaces
 
Typeclasses or gtfo
 
Type classes would never fit in the design philosophy of Java.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Well, having an interface keyword that requires a class with only pure virtual non-static member functions and no non-static data members is fine as long as you also allow multiple inheritance.
 
user1804599
11:42 AM
Albeit unnecessary.
 
I have never seen a good use of multiple implementation inheritance.
So I don't mind if the language doesn't support it.
 
I use Qt a lot and sometimes you'd have to inherit from QObject as base class, but also another non-Qt class, for instance. Otherwise I'd not get the signals, slots etc.
 
morning
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Mixins, for one, are great.
 
@FredOverflow The problem is more about how you define implementation.
 
11:46 AM
morning @NikiC
 
stuff like boost::iterator_facade isn't really an implementation at all.
 
@rightfold Do Java 8 default methods count as mixins?
 
user1804599
By the way, I’m surprised there is no (def void (constantly nil)) in clojure.core.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow no non-static data members, so no.
 
user1804599
 
11:51 AM
?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow single inheritance is, like single dispatch, not general enough. :P
 
@rightfold Java was never meant to be as general as possible.
 
Is it typical behavior that you just ignore everybody new?
 
user1804599
That is why it is shit.
 
user1804599
@MortenKristensen Yes.
 
11:53 AM
@MortenKristensen Did you ask a concrete question?
 
that's awesome, @rightfold
nope, just trying to make conversation :P
 
user1804599
Lurking is the first thing you must do when entering Lounge<C++>.
 
user1804599
And not asking questions.
 
Lurking I can do indeed - and questions I don't ask anyway.
 
user1804599
WELCOME NEW FRIEND.
 
11:54 AM
weeeeh!
THANK YOU, NEW FRIEND
 
user1804599
-2
Q: How do you pronounce the word "Haskell"?

vikingsteveIs it: 'has' like 'hassle' and 'kell' like 'fell' ? or like 'hassle' with 'k' inserted between the 'ss' and the 'l'?

 
That's hilarious!
 
user1804599
@NikiC good afternoon.
 
Aaand vote to close.
 
@rightfold A fine afternoon to you as well :)
 
user1804599
12:04 PM
NikiC why can I not do foo()()?
 
user1804599
Is the parser really that bad? :P
 
@rightfold I like the idea of pronouncing it "Hassle". It's kinda fitting ;)
@rightfold Oh yes, yes it is. Everything that relates to variable parsing (a function call is a variable ;) is a big, hairy mess
 
user1804599
My god.
 
user1804599
I want a lisp that compiles to PHP.
 
user1804599
But the compiler will probably introduce syntax errors.
 
12:06 PM
Mainly due to some unfortunate choices that were made regarding the variable variable syntax... now variable dereferencing does is not left-associative everywhere and that basically means you need to special case practically everything
 
This video has lots of occurrences of the word Haskell. — FredOverflow 4 mins ago
@rightfold What language?
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Guess.
 
NikiC?
 
@rightfold There's github.com/lisphp/lisphp. Never looked at it though, dunno if it's crap
 
user1804599
@NikiC I tried [foo()][0]() but it doesn’t work either. :P
 
user1804599
12:09 PM
@NikiC It’s written in PHP so it’s probably crap. :)
 
user1804599
By the way thanks for recommending Symfony. We use it now and it’s great.
 
user1804599
No more YOU HAVE TO DO IT THIS WAY OR ELSE mentality of CodeIgniter.
 
@rightfold Yeah, that's one of those places where a few special cases were introduced, but not (nearly) enough of them to handle everything ;)
@rightfold If you really want to know, the "standard" solution to that kind of problem is ${!${''}=foo()}()
 
user1804599
What is {''}?
 
@rightfold A typo
 
user1804599
12:11 PM
OIC.
 
user1804599
The variable name is the empty string.
 
user1804599
I think I will just go with $x = foo(); $x(). :)
 
:D
 
user1804599
I couldn’t do function() {}() or (function() {})() either. :(
 
user1804599
Had to do call_user_func(function() {}).
 
user1804599
12:13 PM
Was to restrict variable scoping similar to the JavaScript idiom.
 
Bartek is alive, ALIVE! (sort of:)
 
hiya
 
@rightfold Yes... there's an infinite number of things you can't currently do...
 
user1804599
Rewrite the parser. :P
 
12:22 PM
@Borgleader yup, you are right
@BartekBanachewicz, how you doing buddy?
 
@rightfold, @NikiC what language are you talking about here? :)
 
@Jefffrey Don't ping him - the noise is too painful.
 
user1804599
@MortenKristensen PHP.
 
@rightfold a compiler from PHP into another language?
 
@MortenKristensen A de-obfuscator?
3
 
user1804599
12:27 PM
Yes, from PHP to bytecode.
 
lol
 
haha alright alright
 
user1804599
@NikiC Is it possible to create a function from a lambda without using variables?
 
user1804599
Something like function foo() { } bar = foo; bar();.
 
@rightfold is the source available anywhere to look at?
 
user1804599
12:30 PM
@MortenKristensen github.com/php/php-src
 
@rightfold I don't understand that
 
user1804599
@NikiC I can doo $bar = 'foo'; $bar(); but I want to call it as bar(), not as $bar().
 
Ah, no, you can't do that
 
user1804599
:<
 
@rightfold thanks
 
12:31 PM
Variables always start with $, no way around that ;)
Even if the variable happens to contain a functor
 
user1804599
So I have to do function bar() { return call_user_func_array('foo', func_get_args()); }.
 
@rightfold yes ^^ Or function bar(...$args) { return foo(...$args); } if you're using 5.6 ;)
 
@NikiC You could simply use a language that isn't terrible.
 
user1804599
I’m using PHP 5.5.9.
 
@DeadMG That is a possibility. That's why I'm not using Java ;)
 
12:33 PM
@rightfold O god
func_get_args
forgot about that
 
personally I'd rank Java substantially above PHP
 
yeah
 
I mean
Java is only the worst thing I could have imagined myself
 
user1804599
My favourite PHP code so far: gist.github.com/rightfold/e8fc0e9f8db3697c048d.
 
@rightfold I'm sure you do worse if you apply yourself
just use classes and magic functions for no reason
 
user1804599
12:39 PM
I should add callable to wantArrayOf.
 
C:\Code\Wide\Wide\Deployment>Wide.exe main.wide
Error at main.wide:4:5 - main.wide:4:8
Could not access member "Y" of global.X from (global.Main() at main.wide:3:1 - main.wide:3:6).
that's a bit better.
 
12:55 PM
global means global scope? @DeadMG or name of a var?
 
global scope.
 
user1804599
1:07 PM
@StackedCrooked according to a Dutch politician, we are all Flemish.
 
user3010322
@melak47 I don't love them, I just wanted the ability to keep the same amount of space in memory without having it invoke the default ctor on the std::array since it was on a class. fixed_vector solves that problem for me.
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth Like @JerryCoffin said, it's a NOP ctor with enough storage allocated to fit the space necessary for the class. You call .construct and .destruct when you're ready.
 
I'm super hungry and my family are eating a super nice meal right now and there's plenty left over for me
somebody please shoot me right now.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin It served a purpose! And it was a noble purpose!
 
@Jefffrey a bit better
 
1:13 PM
@DeadMG why aren't you eating as well then?
 
sickness
 
Reasons
 
that's the worst
 
user1804599
Rasins
 
no shit
 
user1804599
1:14 PM
@DeadMG okay, and I will take the remaining food afterwards.
 
I'm actually also a bit hungry, @DeadMG
What are they eating then?
 
I have no idea why you told me this.
I have little sympathy for anyone who is hungry who actually can eat
 
user1804599
I should get the fuck out of bed and I should get the fuck under the shower.
 
user1804599
I should also get to fuck in bed.
 
@DeadMG it's a cruel world out there
 
user1804599
1:16 PM
@MortenKristensen what is the Emacs color scheme you use on nullpointer.dk/2013/02/unleashing-the-power-of-gdb-part-2?
 
user3010322
Well.
 
user3010322
Porting to OpenGL is taking even longer than anticipated.
 
@rightfold well that's basically this:
(set-background-color "black")
(set-foreground-color "white")
(set-cursor-color "white")

;; under X11
(if (eq window-system 'x)
(set-default-font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-120-75-75-c-70-iso8859-15"))
 
user1804599
Is it the default syntax highlighting?
 
forget the last part
 
user1804599
1:20 PM
I like the colours.
 
it is - thanks
@rightfold what do you use?
 
user1804599
Mine looks like this:
 
user1804599
 
Neat, you defined them yourself or?
 
user1804599
No, it ships with Sublime Text 2.
 
user1804599
1:24 PM
It’s called Mac Classic.
 
Ah ST2, I tried using that half a day but I just had to get back to Emacs again :p
 
user1804599
I don’t know how to exit Emacs.
 
user1804599
I use ST2 with Vim mode.
 
user1804599
The only thing I miss in ST2 is rainbow parentheses.
 
user1804599
I had that in Vim.
 
1:25 PM
C-x C-c ;)
I used to be a Vim guy before Emacs
those rainbow parentheses look great, I should see if I can get that in Emacs
 
> Hint: If you are using Linux then depending on your webserver configuration you will have to chmod the rights on the writable folders to 755 or 777. Try 755 first - if it does not work 'upgrade' to 777.
PHP guides are always the best
 
@CatPlusPlus where did you read that ?
 
LimeSurvey manual in this case, but it's p much every PHP thing ever
 
@ThePhD you are a sick person
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth <3
 
user3010322
1:40 PM
I lurves you too~
 
@ScarletAmaranth Not as sick as Bartek:)
 
@CatPlusPlus One problem with PHP's community is that there are people who have no fundamental idea about certain subjects yet they still provide "tutorials" about it. That way, all bad code/practice is escalating quickly on the internetz
 
@MartinJames I'd beg to differ
 
@ThePhD what are you porting to OGL?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Today, anyway.
 
user3010322
1:41 PM
uninitialized<> was mostly a hack. Now that I've worked around it, there's no reason to have it, so it's gone.
 
@ThePhD why is that not surprising
 
user3010322
uninitialized<> still serves a good purpose, e.g. for the implementation of optional and optional_ref (the second of which I still have to do).
 
user3010322
But it's mostly a detail:: kind of thing.
 
yesterday, by Borgleader
user image
@Borgleader lol
 
ha ha ha
 
1:45 PM
;D
 
user3010322
@MortenKristensen An engine.
 
@ThePhD cool, which one?
 
user3010322
@MortenKristensen Some weird obscure one nobody's ever heard about and is not good.
 
Can't be that bad
 
@FredOverflow the question became quite popular on code golf lol
 
user3010322
1:48 PM
Oh, it's bad.
 
user3010322
It's very bad.
 
So bad
@ThePhD what is your obscure, bad engine used for then?
 
It isn't that bad
 
user3010322
@MortenKristensen Absolutely nothing.
 
But requires a lot of work still
 
1:50 PM
@ThePhD it's like a plaything?
 
Don't lie, you made games with it
 
@AlexM. Thanks :)
 
user3010322
I don't know what you're talking about, @Bartek ~
 
He made a game for latest jam with it
 
1:50 PM
what was that game called?
 
@FredOverflow np lol
 
user3010322
Emptiness: Nothing Harder II
 
It was not published because it violated the rules
But I think we will allow closed source next time
 
violated them how? :p
 
Full source disclosure
His engine is not publicly available in source form
 
1:52 PM
I see, any particular reason for that @ThePhD?
 
He wants to make money for selling it.
 
user3010322
Because I'm a crooked, horrible, closed-source croonie.
 
@ThePhD they'll never leave you alone :)
 
poor crooked @ThePhD
 
I'm not pushing him to anything now
Remember march the month of Bartek niceness
 
user3010322
1:54 PM
Well, I don't have it as bad. I'm not Stacked and Crooked!
 
user3010322
/cc @StackedCrooked :b
 
haha, good one, though
 
So my hangover is better
 
I don't even have one right now - that's no good
 
@ThePhD do you have any samples of your engine in that fork that I stole?
 
user3010322
1:57 PM
Absolutely not. :D
 
Could you share some with me? I'd like to compare and possibly get some ideas into glisha.
It's obviously in haskell so I just want the general ideas, not code
 

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